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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2090
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 07:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
Because they'd be injecting money into the economy without anyone spending time to actually make it. It's the very definition of "pay to win" because you're literally buying "win" from the developers.
Now I'm not saying that CCP doesn't already do this, or that they might not do it in the future. I'm just saying that if they did it, and we found out, the community would not respond kindly.
Oh, and on top of that, it would mean that they're basically grabbing money. The purchased PLEXes were intended for players, so now more PLEXes would need to be bought, or game time instead, in order to satisfy subscription needs. It would mean CCP is literally printing dollas for itself without providing goods or services. This would probably be illegal. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Because they'd be injecting money into the economy without anyone spending time to actually make it. It's the very definition of "pay to win" because you're literally buying "win" from the developers.
Now I'm not saying that CCP doesn't already do this, or that they might not do it in the future. I'm just saying that if they did it, and we found out, the community would not respond kindly.
Oh, and on top of that, it would mean that they're basically grabbing money. The purchased PLEXes were intended for players, so now more PLEXes would need to be bought, or game time instead, in order to satisfy subscription needs. It would mean CCP is literally printing dollas for itself without providing goods or services. This would probably be illegal.
CCP is a business, they can charge whatever people will pay. Its not illegal! There's nothing in the EULA or the description of PLEX saying that they are intended for players, its just a way to get real world money into the game, like tokens or coins on other games. They can do whatever they want with PLEX.
I guess what it would come down to is that the players PLEXing their accounts to play would have to play a little bit longer to grind enough isk to purchase a PLEX. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
374
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:14:00 -
[33] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:It's the very definition of "pay to win" because you're literally buying "win" from the developers. then how come Robert is king? i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2091
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
They'd be selling ISK for money. Considering how they advertise their game as having a "fully player-driven economy," one could potentially make a case out of the [fact] that they're not delivering on their promise. Shaky legal ground, sure, but the possibility is there depending on how good the lawyers are. They could, of course, simply change the game's description, and then they'd be fully covered.
Either way, it probably wouldn't matter, since they'd lose tens of thousands of customers when word of this got out. It would be quite a bit worse than Monoclegate. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Danni stark
309
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Posted - 2013.05.20 08:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ottersmacker wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:It's the very definition of "pay to win" because you're literally buying "win" from the developers. then how come Robert is king? because jamie accidentally the mad king. Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
337
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Posted - 2013.05.20 09:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote: The time factor fool. Also, your name is disgusting.
Right, Glad to see you fully understood everything we both wrote and made a rational response. Thanks!
I think a lot of people make wrong assumptions about who is buying PLEX for ISK and the minimum wage comparison. Sure most activities in Eve would pay less than minimum wage but do bear in mind for a lot of people 500m/account/month is a trivial sum of ISK.
Considering how many ways there are to passively return 2% a month you only need 25bn per account invested somewhere to pay the subscription, things like research would mean fueling a POS once a month and maybe flipping some science jobs. Even loans from MD will pay 2%. Of course many people earn much more than 2%.
I'm sure there are plenty of players who spend hours farming missions to pay ISK for plex, which is fine as long as they enjoy it, but for many people its an easy way to save 1/2/3X -ú10(?) per month without much hassle. [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=212601&find=unread[/url]-á- Temporarily Closed |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:They'd be selling ISK for money. Considering how they advertise their game as having a "fully player-driven economy," one could potentially make a case out of the [fact] that they're not delivering on their promise. Shaky legal ground, sure, but the possibility is there depending on how good the lawyers are. They could, of course, simply change the game's description, and then they'd be fully covered.
Either way, it probably wouldn't matter, since they'd lose tens of thousands of customers when word of this got out. It would be quite a bit worse than Monoclegate.
"Shaky legal ground" !?1? No one is going to sue CCP for offering in game goods for money. Player driven economy does not mean unregulated economy, and it sure as hell doesn't affect the ways in which CCP chooses to monetize its service.
They wouldn't lose tens of thousands of customers, they would probably pick up a few; people who have wanted to try Eve out but just don't have time for the grind.
CCP directly subsidizing PLEX is no different than the current system from the standpoint of individual players and "pay to win models." You want a little edge in game then you have the option to buy a PLEX or 20 and redeem them for in game items. And for the people with excess ISK they could still PLEX their accounts for whatever value CCP decided to set the price of PLEX at.
It would require a greater sink somewhere along the line. But if they give out gift packages instead of ISK then they don't even need to sink it, the players will get it destroyed eventually anyway.
-áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Skorpynekomimi
513
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Generally, I don't spend real money on virtual things.
It's like buying music off itunes; one change of policy, one infraction, and it's gone forever and so's your money. Besides, RL money is only provided through my own effort. ISK is acquired through a purely electronic process that I actually enjoy messing with. If I need more ISK, I can just put more effort in to make it. If I need more RL money, that means putting in overtime shifts and waiting a month or more for the return.
As for CCP manipulating PLEX? Unlikely. It'd be much more likely to be that every time the PLEX price shoots up, people stop spending ISK on it, speculators release stockpiles, and the market goes back down. No different from any other market item. **** |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2091
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
I'll let someone else respond to that because I'm way too courteous for the language required in order to do so.
(@Corey) I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1223
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
No. This is not a signature. |
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Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
60
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
I don't buy plex but I do get most of my in game ISK by buying Game TIme Codes and trade them for ISK on the forums. It is a win-win, I get the ISK and whoever buys my GTC gets to play. I make very good money in RL and for the roughly 40 minutes of my RL working I can get 1 Billion ISK. And in fact using my on call pay to fund ISK means I don't actually work at all for it.
I don't have a problem with any of the "that's cheating" comments. This is a valid mechanic designed and approved by CCP and I intend to use it... |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:09:00 -
[42] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:I'll let someone else respond to that because I'm way too courteous for the language required in order to do so.
(@Corey) You are not generally courteous. You seem to feel that you as a player have some kind of rights here, as though the virtual goods that CCP allows you to play with are yours. Everything in your hanger is owned by CCP. They can do whatever they like to the market or the goods in game at any time. You may not like that fact, but that doesn't change the EULA.
I for one would like to see more pronounced business cycles in the market and the game, we have never had a real depression in Eve. That might be fun to go through, to see how well you could do and who would come out on top. I think that CCP is a bit too controlling with the economy sometimes, there's no way it would be on such an even keel otherwise.
Its funny over the years how the Eve population has shifted from a 'roll with the punches' crowd to a group that feels as though they have "rights" in game. People that whine and complain when a game that is advertised as being harsh and difficult is more harsh and difficult than they like.
Who is it that you think would be all up in arms about increasing the in game worth of PLEX? -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2095
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
I might not have "rights" in the sense of actual ownership of the contents of my hangars, but CCP sure as hell won't endanger my ability to use those items as I see fit within the confines of the game's rule set. They can transgress on that unspoken pact if they wish, but then Kotaku articles get written, and honorable businessmen cut their stomachs with butter knives. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:23:00 -
[44] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:...and honorable businessmen cut their stomachs with butter knives. I just butter my stomach...
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Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
499
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:25:00 -
[45] - Quote
Oh, so you and the players like you would start jumping out of virtual buildings if the Eve economy hit a depression? That would be kind of cool to see on the news. It would go well in the MOMA exhibit! -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7920
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:27:00 -
[46] - Quote
Yes, CCP is sure able to buy up gigantic amounts of PLEX with seeded ISK
Yes, you'd see a massive backlash from the playerbase that would make Monoclegate and t20gate look like petty disagreements mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
499
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Andski wrote:Yes, CCP is sure able to buy up gigantic amounts of PLEX with seeded ISK
Yes, you'd see a massive backlash from the playerbase that would make Monoclegate and t20gate look like petty disagreements Oh, welcome to the discussion hair. "Massive backlash" huh? Why because it would throw some shocks into the game economy? -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7920
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
Keep in mind that the OP was previously suggesting that CCP make PLEX scams a bannable offense because in his opinion, they should be treated differently from other items. Also something about it driving away "the kids" or some nonsense
Now he's complaining that the price of PLEX is too low for him to consider buying and he thinks CCP should buy up thousands of units of PLEX and floor it at 2b
These two ideas are a bit, well, conflicting mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7920
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:32:00 -
[49] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Oh, welcome to the discussion hair. "Massive backlash" huh? Why because it would throw some shocks into the game economy?
If you don't see why there would be a massive backlash you should probably stop posting bad ideas like this mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7920
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
"Let's throw some 'shocks' into the economy by spawning over one trillion ISK from thin air" mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
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Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
499
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:36:00 -
[51] - Quote
I guess it might cause the destruction of some game wealth, but Eve is partly about loss and overcoming difficulties. And honestly if doing so would sell more PLEX and not change the current dynamic of "sandbox gameplay" at all it just seems like there would be more money coming in to the Eve side of CCP which is good for the game. It will get more funding as far as manpower for the next xpac. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7920
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:38:00 -
[52] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:I guess it might cause the destruction of some game wealth, but Eve is partly about loss and overcoming difficulties. And honestly if doing so would sell more PLEX and not change the current dynamic of "sandbox gameplay" at all it just seems like there would be more money coming in to the Eve side of CCP which is good for the game. It will get more funding as far as manpower for the next xpac.
Right because the DEVELOPERS SPAWNING CURRENCY TO BUY UP TRILLIONS OF ISK IN PLEX doesn't change the sandbox dynamic
Hooooly **** mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7920
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
Also you seem to think that people would just carry on fine, buying PLEX at 2b/pop to keep their accounts active
Hint: they won't, and you'd see people dropping accounts and sticking to one or two that they'll pay for in cash, or leaving the game entirely because well you know CCP just threw the entire "player-driven economy" part of the game out the window. You'd see a massive PCU drop and the only way that 2b/unit price for PLEX would be sustainable would be through CCP putting up buy orders, which would basically ruin the entire point of PLEX mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
499
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:43:00 -
[54] - Quote
Andski wrote:"Let's throw some 'shocks' into the economy by spawning over one trillion ISK from thin air"
Well that's why it would make sense to subsidize the PLEX with items rather than ISK. They could have a whole bunch of packages to choose from , different ships all ready set up with modules and fits would be cool. People are just going to take them out and get them blown up anyway. They could even set them up so there are no mod drops off of those ships if you really want.
And it wouldn't affect the markets that much anyway, the people buying this stuff probably don't have the time to grind the ISK to buy it if things remain as they are. So this gets more action into the game than would have existed before, more PvP, and more options for people to try things out.
-áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7920
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:47:00 -
[55] - Quote
Also if you think there wouldn't be a backlash over something to this scale when people complain every time CCP adds something that you can redeem with PLEX, whether it's character resculpting or dual character training, you should probably stop trying to tell us how the playerbase reacts to CCP doing things mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7920
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Well that's why it would make sense to subsidize the PLEX with items rather than ISK. They could have a whole bunch of packages to choose from , different ships all ready set up with modules and fits would be cool. People are just going to take them out and get them blown up anyway. They could even set them up so there are no mod drops off of those ships if you really want.
And it wouldn't affect the markets that much anyway, the people buying this stuff probably don't have the time to grind the ISK to buy it if things remain as they are. So this gets more action into the game than would have existed before, more PvP, and more options for people to try things out.
"Redeem a PLEX and get two free battleships!"
Yeah that wouldn't affect the markets at all
I, too, pretend to have a clue about the in-game economy mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
499
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:55:00 -
[57] - Quote
Andski wrote:Keep in mind that the OP was previously suggesting that CCP make PLEX scams a bannable offense because in his opinion, they should be treated differently from other items. Also something about it driving away "the kids" or some nonsense
Now he's complaining that the price of PLEX is too low for him to consider buying and he thinks CCP should buy up thousands of units of PLEX and floor it at 2b
These two ideas are a bit, well, conflicting
My point there, and here is that when a paying customer buys an item they have some expectation of that item. If the item fails to meet those expectations then people generally don't buy more. I think PLEX should have a subsidized "floor" under it so that it is a consistently good product.
And the result of that last thread wasn't that PLEX scams should be banned; rather that PLEX should be a riskier but more valuable item than Time Code. Time Code would be the default way for people to buy in game currency and it would have protections. In this way only older more savvy players would be dealing in PLEX and they would get a premium for doing so. Players brand new to the game or players who receive Time code as a gift would be protected in that transaction.
I was very happy with that thread, and I still think its a great idea.
-áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2098
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:57:00 -
[58] - Quote
Stop...Stop...*cries*
Can't you see he's already dead? I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
499
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
Andski wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:Well that's why it would make sense to subsidize the PLEX with items rather than ISK. They could have a whole bunch of packages to choose from , different ships all ready set up with modules and fits would be cool. People are just going to take them out and get them blown up anyway. They could even set them up so there are no mod drops off of those ships if you really want.
And it wouldn't affect the markets that much anyway, the people buying this stuff probably don't have the time to grind the ISK to buy it if things remain as they are. So this gets more action into the game than would have existed before, more PvP, and more options for people to try things out. "Redeem a PLEX and get two free battleships!" Yeah that wouldn't affect the markets at all I, too, pretend to have a clue about the in-game economy
It wouldn't. Those battleships would never have been bought off of the market anyway because the person using PLEX to buy them probably doesn't have time to grind all the ISK anyway. All it does is create more potential for PVP as players who just couldn't afford to PvP in battleships before can now give it a try.
-áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2098
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:04:00 -
[60] - Quote
But aren't they buying the PLEXes from CCP to sell them for ISK on the market in order to use the ISK to buy battleships in the first place? I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
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