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Vortexo VonBrenner
Coldest Sea Sailing
80
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Posted - 2013.05.19 23:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Deadpool comics will give ou a good idea of an EVE player.
Hmm...yeah, you may have something there... It does seem that a lot of us knocking around in new eden think we're like Deadpool / Boba Fett when we're actually like Jar-Jar Binks, eh? (note: not you)
I'm listening to-áBj+¦rk, playing EVE, eating fishsticks, and I'm cold....this is immersion gaming. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
642
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Posted - 2013.05.19 23:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
Chin MonWang wrote:Having read many comments on warfare on the forums made me realy wonder: "how many of the pilots did actually REALY take an effort to study the both tactical and strategical riches offered by the writings of Sun Tzu", since real knowledge of the Arts of War would of course for most represent an enormous benefit during their strivings to get to be succesful to some extend in space warfare (high/low/nul sec)
So, I am curious to learn if there are any other pilots that possess a real understanding and knowledge of the Sun Tzu!??
Reminds me of online poker a bit. If you play with "fake money", the rules of playing a decent game no longer apply. Nobody walks into a Vegas casino and goes all in every time. they do it all the Time on the internets. Then again Cris Moneymaker won WSOP being trained off of an irc bot.
But there are a lot of parallels (Art of War) as Eve tends to also have a lot of real money and time invested by many, as opposed to all the free cash you want (zynga etc...). Especially the part about laying siege Relates to POS bashing very well IMHO. I.E. a huge PITA. From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |
ACE McFACE
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve
1282
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Posted - 2013.05.19 23:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
You should be notified if someone quotes your post so you can continue the argument! |
Tri Vetra
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
74
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Posted - 2013.05.20 00:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Don't eat the yellow snow
- Napoleon during the retreat from Moscow
this is the best sun tsu |
Gealbhan
196
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Posted - 2013.05.20 00:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left standing" - Gealbhan. |
OfBalance
Caldari State
495
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Posted - 2013.05.20 00:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:You'll get way more out of this game, and real life, by reading Das Kaptial And then read the Manifesto because damn, open your eyes to (the alternatives to) capitalism.
Please send me all your stuff so that I may liberate the proletariat, brother. |
Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
855
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Posted - 2013.05.20 01:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
Matt Damon Matt Damon mattttttt daaaaamon --- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. **** |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1861
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Posted - 2013.05.20 01:03:00 -
[38] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:If you find your leaders quoting sun tzu and clausewitz and/or referencing their rl military experience, you're in a scrub organization doomed for mediocrity at best.
Not empty quoting.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
188
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Posted - 2013.05.20 01:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
Wish in one hand and take a dump in the other....see which one fills up first - Some Old Black Dude |
Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
226
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Posted - 2013.05.20 01:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sir SmashAlot wrote:48 Laws of Power is a good read.
There is a more modern Chinese text than Sun Tzu called Thick Black Theory. A particularly unfortunate translation really. The title in Chinese is something more like 'thick skin(face), black heart'.
There are some cheesy acquisitions of it and an ebook that has both the text and some pretty specific charts synopsizing the text. It is full of all the colorful names for strategies, but when you look at them they are very practical, and have nothing to do with the pre-modern era glorification of war.
The Classical Chinese texts differ from Eurocentric text in several ways. Whereas Leibniz and Newton want to argue about who came up with the Calculus first, the classical Chinese approach is to claim the thing was said by some ancient and then comment on it. Very little of Sun Tzu is actually Sun Tzu. Most of it is the commentaries. There are also some Chinese strategic predecessors to Su Tzu who have some of this, but not as much. Here is an example:
AlliesGÇ¿ To operate, the armed forces need allies as consultants and assistants to the leadership. Everyone looks up to those who are thoughtful and have unusual strategies beyond the ordinary ken, who are widely learned and have broad vision, and who have many skills and great talents. Such people can be made top allies. Those who are fierce, swift, firm, and sharp are heroes of an age. Such people can be made second-ranked allies. Those who talk a lot but not always to the point, who are slight in ability, with little that is extraordinary, are people with ordinary capabilities. They can be brought along as the lower class of allies. (The Way of the General, Zhuge Liang, trans. Thomas Cleary)
Also, if historical accounts are to be believed Mao actively and practically applied Sun Tzu in some extreme ways.
Private sig. Do not read. |
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1308
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Posted - 2013.05.20 01:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Chin MonWang wrote:Having read many comments on warfare on the forums made me realy wonder: "how many of the pilots did actually REALY take an effort to study the both tactical and strategical riches offered by the writings of Sun Tzu", since real knowledge of the Arts of War would of course for most represent an enormous benefit during their strivings to get to be succesful to some extend in space warfare (high/low/nul sec)
So, I am curious to learn if there are any other pilots that possess a real understanding and knowledge of the Sun Tzu!?? And what would Sun Tzu say about the strategic and tactical value of spending one's time playing war in an internet game about imaginary spaceships?
Sun Tzu was probably a fat neckbeard that lived in his mom's tent... "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Nex apparatu5
Arda Para Subire
545
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Posted - 2013.05.20 02:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
Machiavelli will serve you better than Sun Tzu when playing eve. |
Grog Barrel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2013.05.20 02:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
what does tzu say about ddos? |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
593
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Posted - 2013.05.20 02:44:00 -
[44] - Quote
I have read "The Fart of War". I think that is where the fog of war comes from. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Juno Libertas
Pawnstars INC The Fendahlian Collective
24
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Posted - 2013.05.20 03:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
Decrypt my character bio :) |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
1047
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Posted - 2013.05.20 03:04:00 -
[46] - Quote
. . . . . . . . .
OK... THIS WILL /THREAD... but here we go.
If Sun Tzu REALLY looked at EVE, he would come to the conclusion.. . . . BUY PLEX. . CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES FINANCIALLY . BUY PLEX . THE SPIRIT OF SUN TZU GOES BACK TO BEING DEAD. One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7919
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Posted - 2013.05.20 03:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
Juno Libertas wrote:Decrypt my character bio :)
It's not encrypted to begin with mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
1047
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Posted - 2013.05.20 03:06:00 -
[48] - Quote
Andski wrote:Juno Libertas wrote:Decrypt my character bio :) It's not encrypted to begin with
To be encrypted you need an:
Al Gore Rythim One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
amGreat
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.05.20 03:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
sun tzu is like all of 20 pages long, anyone that hasn't read it is a ****.
The art of war excluding the chapter on fire is conflict broken down to its taoist minimal form. It has great alignment onto eve, a game centered on conflict.
"All warfare is based on deception ... Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him." Does that sound like it fits in eve? http://suntzusaid.com/book/1/20 Yeah most lines map into eve.
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Chin MonWang
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.20 03:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
thx for all of your interesting contributions. Some comments indeed show real insight and deeper understanding of the core values represented by the writings of Sun Tzu. I will not comment on or argue with any of the individual contributions since that is not the purpose of this thread. However, it would be interesting, I assume, to highlight some thoughts of a more phylosophical and psychological nature, which are real close related to the timeless intrinsic values of the Sun Tzu:
The Art of War, it mainly focusses on CORE HUMAN NATURE(!) Leads to the question: "did nature of mankind realy change in only a couple of thousands of years? Our genes and thus basic instincs did surely not change just overnight?!" So, what does this all tell us about the concepts of both strategical and tactical warfare?
And to those reading the entries made and wondering: "what the h*** are they all talking about? Isn't that Arts of War simply outdated , so old, so how can it possibly have any effect on present day life!? My answer would be: the writings about the laws of gravity, for instance, are also old, they still have an immense impact on daily life.
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Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
173
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Posted - 2013.05.20 03:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Chin MonWang wrote:Having read many comments on warfare on the forums made me realy wonder: "how many of the pilots did actually REALY take an effort to study the both tactical and strategical riches offered by the writings of Sun Tzu", since real knowledge of the Arts of War would of course for most represent an enormous benefit during their strivings to get to be succesful to some extend in space warfare (high/low/nul sec)
So, I am curious to learn if there are any other pilots that possess a real understanding and knowledge of the Sun Tzu!?? And what would Sun Tzu say about the strategic and tactical value of spending one's time playing war in an internet game about imaginary spaceships?
Probably what is this strange building, how are those pictures moving on the screen, how can I ask you questions in a language that I do not know and why does the air smell like smoke but I cannot see fire.
Probably, if he didn't die from culture shock he would approve. Maybe not of the general chatter. I think he might come around to the idea of "drinking tears" eventually but the idea that a person would openly act as a victim because of an action taken against them in a place of almost zero consequence then talk about it openly on a forum where the people will again openly mock them would be a bit confusing, especially if in all cases there is anonymity. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2086
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Posted - 2013.05.20 03:28:00 -
[52] - Quote
Read Sun Tzu?
Hell, I bet that ninety-nine percent of this forum's posters don't even know how to properly pronounce his name. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
437
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Posted - 2013.05.20 03:28:00 -
[53] - Quote
A blue donut just means you dont have a center to deal with when you kill them. - Neonovus When you are in nullsec, pack for an extended trip. No one is coming to save you. - Neonovus EvE Online is a horrible and fun game. Which you are decides if you will succeed. - Neonovus Get the pod! Get the pod! Get my corpse!-Grideris A book written before some one invented the gun and from a culture where a man strumming a lute was deemed a threat to 10k people, is not a very valid tactics manual. - Neonovus If you keep losing ships to the same guy, you might want to stop shooting the DED agent- Neonovus |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
593
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Posted - 2013.05.20 04:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Read Sun Tzu?
Hell, I bet that ninety-nine percent of this forum's posters don't even know how to properly pronounce his name. Proper pronunciation =/= comprehension.
Pretty sure that many who do know how to pronounce his name correctly, and can even quote passages, would be hopeless in understanding or executing his ideology. Too often knowledge is just another form of ignorance. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
253
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Posted - 2013.05.20 04:54:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nothing wrong with reading books on tactics and strategy.
Just remember that your opponent might have read the same ones. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1089
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Posted - 2013.05.20 05:16:00 -
[56] - Quote
i liked the part near the end where it is revealed the antagonist is sun tzu's lost twin who he thought was dead |
Amarant'h
Fistful of Finns Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
6
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Posted - 2013.05.20 05:50:00 -
[57] - Quote
Well.. Bible is an old book too with full of crap, and still its used to make war even nowadays.
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
912
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Posted - 2013.05.20 06:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
I think reading books on (military) strategy can be a boon to your EVE play as they can make you reevaluate all the views you take for granted from a radically different point of view.
Reading them as a manual, however, will often lead to disaster as they tend to rely on implicit assumptions and context that is simply not given in EVE - a universe where you wage war for entertainment.
Amarant'h wrote:Well.. Bible is an old book too with full of crap, and still its used to make war even nowadays.
you might want to have a look at the military record of ancient Israel/Judah...
(they were basically the punching ball of Egypt and whomever ruled Mesopotamia) TEST alt - don't trust. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3213
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Posted - 2013.05.20 06:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
As someone who has actually read it, I'm not entirely certain how the vast passages mostly describing how to identify your enemy's numbers by the amount of dust their march kicks up, what kind of weather is advantageous to attacking, and how to identify your enemy's morale by how the hold their lances translates into internet space warfare.
Whenever I see people reference it as some bible of strategy I just shake my head. 90% of it is incredibly specific to ancient chinese warfare, and the other 10% is essentially extremely basic strategic thinking 101. Anyone with a strategic mind already knows everything he wrote down. Things like "win a fight before you commit to it" are basic common sense. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
463
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Posted - 2013.05.20 06:22:00 -
[60] - Quote
Main ideas behind it are pretty basic and after reading the thing you'll probably think, "Well, I knew that stuff". The good part about it is that you are reminded about those simple things as they are somehow easy to forget in everyday life's fuss.
The problem though often lies in application of those guidelines to particular situation, and this is where your own mind should shine. |
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