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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14344
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:45:00 -
[91] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Mag's wrote:With all due respect, you are wrong. It's duplication, not automation. That doesn't make it different. One requires human input to do something. The other does not. How is that not a difference?
More importantly, since one requires human input, it's allowed. Since the other does not, it's not. It's very very simple, and the you'd have to have very blurred vision to not be able to distinguish between the two with such a blinding difference to set the two apart. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:49:00 -
[92] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Danni stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:more trolling. get back to work murk. your trolling was just as bad the first time this came up, and then got locked with a comment about isboxer being fine. just, quit while you have some dignity. It's a valid discussion. And you are not contributing. So I guess it isn't me who is trolling. when ccp have already said your position is wrong, it's not a discussion it's a redundant thread. this thread is only contributing to spam and wasted space.
To whom? To you? No space taken. To CCP? Not locked yet, so that disputes that. Plus, it's none of our business what CCP thinks until they tell us. So far the only ISD content on this thread has been to contribute.
Maybe you should reevaluate your own self worth? I dunno, not up to me decide, but thanks for joining in the discussion! "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14344
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:51:00 -
[93] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:it's none of our business what CCP thinks until they tell us. GǪand what they think GÇö and have told us on numerous occasions GÇö is that you're wrong.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Danni stark
326
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:51:00 -
[94] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Danni stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Danni stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:more trolling. get back to work murk. your trolling was just as bad the first time this came up, and then got locked with a comment about isboxer being fine. just, quit while you have some dignity. It's a valid discussion. And you are not contributing. So I guess it isn't me who is trolling. when ccp have already said your position is wrong, it's not a discussion it's a redundant thread. this thread is only contributing to spam and wasted space. To whom? To you? No space taken. To CCP? Not locked yet, so that disputes that. Plus, it's none of our business what CCP thinks until they tell us. So far the only ISD content on this thread has been to contribute. Maybe you should reevaluate your own self worth? I dunno, not up to me decide, but thanks for joining in the discussion!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2743356#post2743356
**** me, you were trolling that thread hard enough, how did you miss the glaring message telling you that you were wrong? Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:53:00 -
[95] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Mag's wrote:Ellen Thrace wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:If a click of yours immediately causes a click in 10 clients, that is not automation. With all due respect , that is clearly an automation, simply because its not humanly possible to do that. With all due respect, you are wrong. It's duplication, not automation. That doesn't make it different. It kind of does... Having used ISBoxer a fair amount in the past I'll throw my 2 cents in here: Cent # 1)Running multiple clients is a lot harder than running one, even with ISBoxer. Back when incursions first came out I was running ISBoxed tengus to clear vanguards. I soon changed over to a lone vindi and a pair of basilisks, without boxing them, just because it was easier and the difference in performance was surprisingly small. Even now if I had to multibox, I'd do it manually for anything under 6-7 accounts, because it's just easier. Cent # 2) If you've never used ISBoxer or some other variation of it, please don't theorycraft and tell everyone how easy/simple it is to run a pvp fleet with it. Literally the only upside to having used it in the past for me was it got me to the point where I didn't spend so much time on each aspect of an engagement (watching the health bars, getting into orbit, finding warpouts, keeping an eye on everyone on the field etc) because multiboxing forces you do divide your attention in so many ways it's insane.
Being possible and "easy" are relative terms.
What might not be easy for you might be easy for me.
And vice versa.
Being ABLE to do it is the question that was answered, not if it was easy to do so.
As someone who has multiboxed, both using multiple computers to manually do the extra work and alt tab with various clients... it isn't in fact THAT difficult as long as you have a routine that works.
Again, that part is irrelevant however.
What is relevant, is using isboxer for more than screen placement and to use it for replicating/duplicating mouse clicks is where the suspect activity comes from.
Since the argument is effort versus result. 1 person doing the work of 7 is fine.
1 person doing the work of 1 and getting the reward of 7 is not.
"I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
zyk0
Chemical Horizons
0
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:55:00 -
[96] - Quote
Jason Xado wrote:Multiboxing is valid gameplay.
^
Look at videos of people Multiboxing in World of Warcraft. Some funny stuff. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:56:00 -
[97] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:it's none of our business what CCP thinks until they tell us. GǪand what they think GÇö and have told us on numerous occasions GÇö is that you're wrong.
Hmm?
I don't understand what you're saying. Please reread the thread and get on board.
I understand that CCP has said it is allowed, they also said it wasn't and that they are not going to enforce the rule and ban people for it.
That doesn't say anything about me being wrong.
That has nothing to do with what I'm even talking about! "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
4002
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:57:00 -
[98] - Quote
CCP didnt have enough employees available, so they used ISBoxer when programming the Launcher Patch.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 21:04:00 -
[99] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Mag's wrote:With all due respect, you are wrong. It's duplication, not automation. That doesn't make it different. One requires human input to do something. The other does not. How is that not a difference? More importantly, since one requires human input, it's allowed. Since the other does not, it's not. It's very very simple, and the you'd have to have very blurred vision to not be able to distinguish between the two with such a blinding difference to set the two apart.
It's pretty simple.
Replication is copying, repeating, right?
Automation is synthesizing the work instead of doing it yourself right?
Sooo using your words, replicating via isboxer WOULD be automation since you are not clicking that button more than once to result in more clicks.(which arbitrarily do not require human input to be definitive, careful with your absolutes).
A 3rd party program does it.
You are right, it is VERY very simple. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 21:08:00 -
[100] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:
To whom? To you? No space taken. To CCP? Not locked yet, so that disputes that. Plus, it's none of our business what CCP thinks until they tell us. So far the only ISD content on this thread has been to contribute.
Maybe you should reevaluate your own self worth? I dunno, not up to me decide, but thanks for joining in the discussion!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2743356#post2743356**** me, you were trolling that thread hard enough, how did you miss the glaring message telling you that you were wrong?
Your link resulted in this verbatim quote-
"Hey guys, I've been asked to relay this statement.
We currently have no plans to change our current policy on this issue.We always take all feedback into account and will discuss this further internally."
This isn't a "you are right and I am wrong" situation. It proves us both right and both wrong, but that's not the point.
If you want to use a quote to prove anything confrontationally, atleast use one that doesn't conflict with itself. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
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Danni stark
326
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Posted - 2013.05.21 21:10:00 -
[101] - Quote
please, you know exactly what it means, you trolled that thread long enough to know what it means better than any one else.
honestly, if your job is that boring, get a new one. i know you only troll while you're at work, you admitted as much in a previous thread. Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 21:18:00 -
[102] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:please, you know exactly what it means, you trolled that thread long enough to know what it means better than any one else.
honestly, if your job is that boring, get a new one. i know you only troll while you're at work, you admitted as much in a previous thread.
Pay my bills, pay my rent, or find a way to contribute to my life.
Otherwise, no.
Whether I know what it means or not is moot.
They are your words. Not mine.
I am fully aware of what it means, that does not change the kneejerk reactions people use nor does it mean I am ok with such closemindedness.
Call it emergent forum gameplay if it makes you sleep better at night.
Since I don't pay your bills, or contribute to your life, I simply won't care.
I still do not like what isboxer represents, so until CCP says I cannot complain about it, I will how I see fit. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Danni stark
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 21:22:00 -
[103] - Quote
clearly you're working too hard, your trolling is poor today. Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption Darkspawn.
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 21:35:00 -
[104] - Quote
I use ISBoxer and I do not use automation. I use replication. Have a good day. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
244
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 21:59:00 -
[105] - Quote
Personal opinions, I'd class replication under automation, as it isn't player effort that generates the command. 30 ISboxer fleet, you may generate one F1, but the 29 others are coming from a program. It's parallel commands, where a bot is serial commands. I just don't see a difference between replicating one command 30 times, and issuing the same command 30 times in a row using a program.
However, it's my personal opinion, and I don't run CCP. I'll voice said opinion in appropriate venues, and should CCP solicit feedback, I'll be sure to give it. In the meantime, ISboxed fleets are easy to gank. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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Jason Xado
Xado Industries
125
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Posted - 2013.05.21 22:01:00 -
[106] - Quote
I can put a lot more nails into a piece of wood with a hammer than with my thumb. I don't call a hammer automation. |
Sentamon
948
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 22:08:00 -
[107] - Quote
Replicating one command isn't against the EULA also. For example you can make a G15 macro's to replicate and not violate the EULA.
Trying to confuse replication or duplication with botting is just willful ignorance on peoples part. The first 2 require a person at the computer playing, while botting does not. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Lazlow Kushrinada
eat a big bowl of bics Brothers of Tangra
0
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Posted - 2013.05.21 22:24:00 -
[108] - Quote
What the hell are threads like this still doing on the forums!!! MY GOD PEOPLE
CCP has made it clear and apparent that ISboxer doesn't break the rules. Now when isboxer DRASTICALLY changes and suddenly starts breaking the rules out of the blue, feel free to re-visit the discussion.
Would you rather CCP start micro-transactioning off the game. Make you pay more to win more? This is their work around for just that. Combined with PLEX CCP still brings in money, no one has a completely unfair advantage(And I am so sick of people dreaming up rediculously specific scenarios where isboxer might help ya out). Having more accounts is not against the rules. Using software to -ASSIST- in the usage of those accounts is not against the rules.
BOTTING IS
And like Sentamon mentioned, anyone thinking there is no difference is just plain ignorant. I really wish people would get banned for starting these threads, as it is borderline on intentionally enraging the community. As a matter of fact, I think we should all start filing petitions against anyone starting these threads for harassment. Nothing has changed, so that is all this is, harassment against Isboxer users. Debate should be left up to CCP only unless something actually -Changes- with the isboxer software.
And for the record, I manage three accounts without isboxer. I have tried Isboxer and agree it makes managing multiple clients much easier, including streamlining the actual punishment it takes on your machine, reducing heat and cpu usage as a side effect. However after 7 days I stopped using it and continue to run three accounts on full manual, and see no problem doing either. To some extent I hope that with CCP's stance towards 'multies' I hope they incorporate isboxer style technology into their base client in the future, that would surely stop this non-sense. |
Ellen Thrace
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 22:24:00 -
[109] - Quote
Korvus Falek wrote:I use ISBoxer and I do not use automation. I use replication. Have a good day.
Both definitions are not mutually exclusive, therefore, even if it is a replication, it still is an Automation.
Jason Xado wrote:I can put a lot more nails into a piece of wood with a hammer than with my thumb. I don't call a hammer automation.
But you can't use 40 hammers at the same time, can you ? |
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
19
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Posted - 2013.05.21 22:29:00 -
[110] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:In the meantime, ISboxed fleets are easy to gank.
Certain people are trying to entice WoW multiboxers to play EVE now that the follow command was removed from battlegrounds. I'm wondering how long it will be before we start seeing threads describing how these WoW refugees are receiving a real New Eden welcome
The Nosy Gamer - Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength - Eric Hoffer |
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1884
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 22:41:00 -
[111] - Quote
This is the thread that never ends. It just goes on and on my friends. Some people started posting in it not knowing what it was, And they'll continue posting in it forever just because . .
For all the slow people and the jealous:
Automation = No one at keyboard. Software makes decisions or follows a script and continues interacting with the game client without user input.
Replication = User input from a human being at a keyboard is copied multiple times in real-time. if there is no one at the keyboard, no replication can occur.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
244
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 22:44:00 -
[112] - Quote
Rosewalker wrote:Certain people are trying to entice WoW multiboxers to play EVE now that the follow command was removed from battlegrounds. I'm wondering how long it will be before we start seeing threads describing how these WoW refugees are receiving a real New Eden welcome
A WoW player moving to EVE can be..quite delightful in the tear department. The WoW penchant for displaying and showing off shiny things will make ship scanning unneeded.
According to WoW playing spouse, the most common response will be "If EVE were more like WoW in X way, it'd have so many more subs"...wait. Looks like we've figured out how to figure out the WoW kids in EVE. Anyone who pulls "sub numbers" as an argument... Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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Jason Xado
Xado Industries
125
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Posted - 2013.05.21 22:46:00 -
[113] - Quote
Ellen Thrace wrote:Korvus Falek wrote:I use ISBoxer and I do not use automation. I use replication. Have a good day. Both definitions are not mutually exclusive, therefore, even if it is a replication, it still is an Automation. Jason Xado wrote:I can put a lot more nails into a piece of wood with a hammer than with my thumb. I don't call a hammer automation. But you can't use 40 hammers at the same time, can you ?
Yes, I can make a hammer with 40 heads on it and use it on 40 nails. |
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
50
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 22:56:00 -
[114] - Quote
As long as CCP gets money, they don't care.
Unless there is a mass-exodus of single-box players, or prevents single-box players from being competative or interested in Eve, then they will care.
In the end it's a balance between "which combination of players gives us the most money."
Ppl with 10 accts rarely pay for all of them with cash, they use plex.
This plex is typically paid by people who don't run 10 accounts.
Eve is quickly turning into a korean mmo, where people buy virtual items for RL cash. "Want a carrier? 2 plexes." while the peasant armies of multiboxers mine the minerals for it.
My 2 cents |
Lexar Mundi
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
45
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Posted - 2013.05.22 02:00:00 -
[115] - Quote
Rosewalker wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:In the meantime, ISboxed fleets are easy to gank. Certain people are trying to entice WoW multiboxers to play EVE now that the follow command was removed from battlegrounds. I'm wondering how long it will be before we start seeing threads describing how these WoW refugees are receiving a real New Eden welcome
Your ship needs a 200 fitting score before you can join my fleet GAWD!!!!! (past WoW players will know what i am talking about)
lol more WoW players = more people to scam and more ships to blow up :) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14346
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 02:06:00 -
[116] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:It's pretty simple.
Replication is copying, repeating, right?
Automation is synthesizing the work instead of doing it yourself right? GǪand ISBoxer does not offer the latter. You still have to do the work. It doesn't automate anything.
So yes, very very simple.
Quote:Sooo using your words, replicating via isboxer WOULD be automation GǪif it did away with the human input, which it doesn't. So it isn't. This explains why it's been explicitly allowed for ages by CCP GÇö you know, the final arbiters of the CCP EULA?
Ellen Thrace wrote:Both definitions are not mutually exclusive, therefore, even if it is a replication, it still is an Automation. Eh, no. There is no GÇ£thereforeGÇ¥ about it. Both definitions are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, even if it is a replication, it can still be an automation (and vice versa). But since it requires human input, it isn't. It's just replication. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Ellen Thrace
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 02:42:00 -
[117] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:
Automation = No one at keyboard. Software makes decisions or follows a script and continues interacting with the game client without user input.
Automation DOES NOT mean "no one at keyboard" or "without user input"
Quote:auGÇótoGÇómaGÇótion (-î+ö t+Ö-ême+¬ -â+Ön) n. 1. the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a MINIMUM.
It has already been discussed on another thread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=217614 |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1884
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 02:46:00 -
[118] - Quote
Ellen Thrace wrote:Doc Fury wrote:
Automation = No one at keyboard. Software makes decisions or follows a script and continues interacting with the game client without user input.
Automation DOES NOT mean "no one at keyboard" or "without user input" Quote:auGÇótoGÇómaGÇótion (-î+ö t+Ö-ême+¬ -â+Ön) n. 1. the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a MINIMUM. It has already been discussed on another thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=217614
In the context of why CCP allows replication (i.e. isboxer) and not automation (a bot) that's exactly what it means.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9484
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 03:00:00 -
[119] - Quote
Rosewalker wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:In the meantime, ISboxed fleets are easy to gank. Certain people are trying to entice WoW multiboxers to play EVE now that the follow command was removed from battlegrounds. I'm wondering how long it will be before we start seeing threads describing how these WoW refugees are receiving a real New Eden welcome
Link?
1 Kings 12:11
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Ellen Thrace
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 03:03:00 -
[120] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Ellen Thrace wrote:Doc Fury wrote:
Automation = No one at keyboard. Software makes decisions or follows a script and continues interacting with the game client without user input.
Automation DOES NOT mean "no one at keyboard" or "without user input" Quote:auGÇótoGÇómaGÇótion (-î+ö t+Ö-ême+¬ -â+Ön) n. 1. the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a MINIMUM. It has already been discussed on another thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=217614 In the context of why CCP allows replication (i.e. isboxer) and not automation (a bot) that's exactly what it means.
If that was the case it would mean that CCP officially allows bots. Meanwhile why dont you give us your own opinion if this should be allowed or not ?
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