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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 39 post(s) |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1134
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Posted - 2013.05.22 14:37:00 -
[2281] - Quote
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:From another EVE-O GD thread: Quote:*snip* And yet we pay for the EVE entertainment service, just as we pay for other business services that might fall under the "serious" category.
Dependencies on ancillary systems are just as critical for review as is the primary functionality of the newly implemented logic and UI. Regardless of what caused the failure, CCP's EVE subscribers were faced with a service that was rendered unavailable without some under the covers technical tinkering on a widespread scale. The perception was that the launcher had utterly failed even though it was content / data feeds which were buckling under some unknown pressures.
On top of these problems, there was little-to-no communication from CCP that they were intending to foist some significant new functionality on their users. Given a few days notice, players would have set their long-train skills and gotten assets out of harm's way. Instead of properly setting the expectation of a patch day, CCP surprised its customers in a bad way. This is a big no-no in the world of customer relationship management.
The challenge that CCP faces with poorly executed patch releases is one of a cumulative nature where CCP, on an annual basis, royally fucks up what they market as "expansions" with game breaking defects or functionality that is considered to be highly undesirable by their customers. The list is long with these ****-ups and EVE subscribers have even longer memories.
When CCP pulls a completely avoidable stunt like they did with this new launcher functionality release, the collective perception of CCPs ineptitude is acutely focused on what has gone wrong rather than on the future potential [some might say vaporware] of CCP's long-term initiatives. Suggestions on how to do better? 1) Communication and Expectations Setting: Ensure that your customers have lead-time to prepare for patches. As much as I believe that patches should not contain game-breaking elements, history has proven that when EVE subscribers know about an impending patch, they are more flexible and forgiving if the execution does not go as planned. 2) Testing and Preparation: In hindsight, it is clear that the new launcher is highly dependent upon one or more content servers in order to work properly. Testing what happens to the launcher functionality when one or all of those content servers is unavailable seems like one of the most basic tests-cases associated with this project. It doesn't matter if the content server failure was unrelated to the patch, the fact remains that the launcher is susceptible to the failure of an external system. Assuming that external systems will be up and running for a major patch (yes, the launcher is the gateway to your service, CCP) and not preparing for unexpected failures / downtime is poor planning. Ensuring that the launcher can handle one or more failed external systems gracefully is critical.
It's commendable people even still try to voice sincere and thoughtful advice after 10yrs of CCP repetitively ignoring user feedback about features tested on SiSi & the constant evidence of CCP's failures to conduct even the most basic tests of said features outside of initial coding.
Frankly, the community would better serve itself by trolling CCP hard rather than wasting their own time and energy trying to advise a company that is completely deaf and blind to its customers voice and concerns. At least this way, we entertain ourselves and create our own content.
HTFU!...for the children! |
Jehal Erata
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.05.22 14:41:00 -
[2282] - Quote
While some might have found their ways of launching EVE, it is important for me to address that we are many that have not, and are still unable to play.
I hope finding a solution is the top priority by now. Subscribers and reputation is on the line.
Looking forward to be able to play. |
Perramas
DreddNaut
3360
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:46:00 -
[2283] - Quote
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. Samuel Beckett Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people- Eleanor Roosevelt |
Jehal Erata
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:49:00 -
[2284] - Quote
What is made to work and fails to work is bad work.
The last ones to blame are the costumers. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4088
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:49:00 -
[2285] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Another customer asked if there was any player feedback on this and it hit me - WTH was the last CSM on this??????
Did none of them multibox? Did they really sign off on this? Were they given a dog and pony show - but were clueless that it was a bait-n-switch show?
Another reason to believe that CSM is a joke.
CCP - do a REAL Alpha/Beta with a enough people to a true sampling space and depth of ideas.
The few CSM that have spoken so far believe that the new launcher is not an issue and that everyone is just bitching because they are afraid of change.
Not surprised, they are butt buddies off the same congregations. Groupthink.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Par'Gellen
230
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:02:00 -
[2286] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote:The new login functionality that we deployed today is designed to start changing the way users log into the EVE Universe; whilst it is often true that one shouldn't change something if it isn't broken, such a clich+¬ doesn't allow for changing priorities. Our goal was that by rolling out the new login method, and supporting the single sign on service, we could lay the groundwork to start moving people away from the messy multiboxing setups that have traditionally never been supported by us as a company, and towards something that makes more sense for CCP and the services we provide. If you are telling us that running multiple accounts at once will no longer be possible in the near future then prepare for a $@%&storm of magnitude infinity.
CCP Atropos wrote:To expand on this point, there are a number of exotic setups for multiboxing involving either multiple physical installs of the game, hybrid symlinks, junctions, soft links, hard links, partial copies and more. And in almost every single case people multi box for one reason: to be able to have individual setups for their settings, or to hasten the login flow. I multibox to run multiple accounts at once. Settings for each account are already handled by the client (even the old one). Also, if you see people trying to "hasten the login flow" why in God's name would you place obstacles in our way like the process required to login multiple accounts with the new launcher?!?!
Old Launcher: Click Play as many times as you have accounts to start up that many clients and then log in to them. Done.
New Launcher: Select your account (the list appears to rearrange itself randomly each time, thanks for that *facepalm*). Log in. Click Play. Wait while the launcher tells you the client is launching. Wait some more. Wait. Wait. See the client fully loaded in the background while still being forced to wait for the launcher to tell you the client is launching. Finally the launcher thinks the client is loaded and releases the button. Click Switch User Account. If you try to get around it by clicking the switch button early you STILL have to wait for the Play button to release from an account you aren't even trying to log in as anymore. WTF?!? Repeat steps above for each account until you are ready to kill yourself.
It does not take a Ph.D. in rocket propulsion to see which of the above scenarios is better. Derp. In this case your logic for "improving" *cough* the launcher appears to be self defeating. "We're trying to speed things up by making everything take much longer! YAY!" Oh my God...
CCP Atropos wrote:As for the log off button, many people don't really use it to log off from the game, but rather as a quick means to quit the game and restart at the login screen. And we can't have the customers doing something convenient that saves time. Especially if it means they don't get to fight with our shiny new disaster of a launcher that forces them to wait for no apparent reason between logins! Is that what you are saying here? Seriously?!?!?!
CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1316
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:07:00 -
[2287] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Another customer asked if there was any player feedback on this and it hit me - WTH was the last CSM on this??????
Did none of them multibox? Did they really sign off on this? Were they given a dog and pony show - but were clueless that it was a bait-n-switch show?
Another reason to believe that CSM is a joke.
CCP - do a REAL Alpha/Beta with a enough people to a true sampling space and depth of ideas.
The few CSM that have spoken so far believe that the new launcher is not an issue and that everyone is just bitching because they are afraid of change.
If true, just reinforces my past belief that CSM is basically worthless to the playerbase. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Angelus Ryan
Ama Nesciri.
32
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:09:00 -
[2288] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: The few CSM that have spoken so far believe that the new launcher is not an issue and that everyone is just bitching because they are afraid of change.
More like the CSM are afraid of bitching because they are afraid of that affecting their relationship with CCP. The CSM *is* pretty much useless to most of the playerbase.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7947
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:10:00 -
[2289] - Quote
Steijn wrote:only guessing here as dont use Eve via steam
steam / steamapps / common / ccp? /
Close: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\eve online mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Mara Ziyal
Steel Beasts
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:11:00 -
[2290] - Quote
Well im reading lots of hints and guides of how to multibox with the new launcher, but my problem is totally different. Every time i start a client, the launcher vanishes and locks up in the background. To start it again for the next client i have to kill like 3-4 entities of launcher.exe with the task manager every single time! |
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dark dreamur
Wormhole Exploration Crew R.E.P.O.
27
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:12:00 -
[2291] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:The EVE Launcher will be upgraded with new features on May 21, 2013..........
The main change is a new and improved landing page and a new login .
Dear CCP the " upgrade" you installed is terrible, calling that an up grade is like patting yourself on the back because you went from last years BMW to the current fiat, yes its a newer car but its not an upgrade.
also calling a landing page that makes it harder to load up our multiple accounts " improved" dons't seem like a shinning example of buissnes savvy. I would think in these hard economic times you would be encouraging people to have as many accounts as possible.
I don't have a business major but i can give you this tip: if you want to secure your subscription base you need to bring content your subscribers WANT, spend more time on keeping the content fresh and less time developing clunky over cumbersome features and you have a buissness model with staying power. Eve isn't your personal laboratory to try new ideas in , it isn't about what you think would be cool, or a personal achievements its about a business that brings game play with content and in a format your paying subscribers want.
so as a paying subscriber I plead with you, please un do the damage , if your pride is too much and in the way of doubling back on this roll out , please give a detailed, spin free explanation of why this change was so absolutely needed that you risked disgruntling so many customers. |
Mal Orlov
Anal Cactii Assaulters Brothers of Tangra
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:12:00 -
[2292] - Quote
Jehal Erata wrote:While some might have found their ways of launching EVE, it is important for me to address that we are many that have not, and are still unable to play.
I hope finding a solution is the top priority by now. Subscribers and reputation is on the line.
Looking forward to be able to play.
Yes, this exactly. I'd very much like to be able to play the game at all at this point. |
Verite Rendition
Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.
132
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:17:00 -
[2293] - Quote
I won't drone on too long, but as a symbolic link user, I agree with many of the others that this new launcher is a step back right now. I'm generally happy with the launcher, but the fact that the launcher only remembers one of my accounts is a speedy ticket to madness on my part.
The launcher needs to store its settings on a per-instance basis, just as the client does today. If it did that, then everything would be cool.
And please stop storing the Launcher cache/settings in Program Files. That data needs to be in ProgramData or in the User folder. Program Files is for program files; storing user data in Program Files is highly discouraged and developers were supposed to stop doing that 7 years ago with Vista.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd560744%28v=ws.10%29.aspx |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1317
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:18:00 -
[2294] - Quote
Mara Ziyal wrote:Well im reading lots of hints and guides of how to multibox with the new launcher, but my problem is totally different. Every time i start a client, the launcher vanishes and locks up in the background. To start it again for the next client i have to kill like 3-4 entities of launcher.exe with the task manager every single time!
Don't use the launcher. Create a desktop shortcut to the ExeFile.exe in ../bin folder. It's all I use now to get around the complete [expletive deleted] that is the new launcher. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Alicina Goodbody
Posique Corp
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:18:00 -
[2295] - Quote
My update went just fine this morning.
However the "Log Off" button is now missing from the game control panel you get when pressing the Escape Key.
I selected the "Log Off Safely" Button, and watched a tedious clock count down.
After the game exited, the launcher was still there, with my account logged in.
I selected the Play button, the Launcher cleared and it stated client started.
Problem: Client never restarted.
I closed the launcher and logged back in an upon selecting play the game started and I changed to my alt.
I tried just quitting the game with the windows X ornament, and the Launcher again refused to start a new session.
Is this exceptional behavior on my machine, or a known limitation with the new launcher? |
Amalia Finna
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:19:00 -
[2296] - Quote
How, after things have been going so well lately, can you **** this up so bad?
At least you could have found a way for the new launcher not have an affect on any ingame settings...
Omg |
Mangold
Seems Legit. Legit.
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:20:00 -
[2297] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Mara Ziyal wrote:Well im reading lots of hints and guides of how to multibox with the new launcher, but my problem is totally different. Every time i start a client, the launcher vanishes and locks up in the background. To start it again for the next client i have to kill like 3-4 entities of launcher.exe with the task manager every single time! Don't use the launcher. Create a desktop shortcut to the ExeFile.exe in ../bin folder. It's all I use now to get around the complete [expletive deleted] that is the new launcher.
Ah great. Thanks.
Feels like the launcher may end up like captains quarter's. I removed that the first day and have never used it again. |
Par'Gellen
230
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:20:00 -
[2298] - Quote
dark dreamur wrote:also calling a landing page that makes it harder to load up our multiple accounts " improved" dons't seem like a shinning example of buissnes savvy. I would think in these hard economic times you would be encouraging people to have as many accounts as possible. I was also confused by this. After reading some of CCP Atropos' posts it looks like they want to get away from allowing players to have multiple accounts. If this is true then the new launcher that makes it such a headache to log in is a great first step.
CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1317
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:21:00 -
[2299] - Quote
Alicina Goodbody wrote:My update went just fine this morning.
However the "Log Off" button is now missing from the game control panel you get when pressing the Escape Key.
I selected the "Log Off Safely" Button, and watched a tedious clock count down.
After the game exited, the launcher was still there, with my account logged in.
I selected the Play button, the Launcher cleared and it stated client started.
Problem: Client never restarted.
I closed the launcher and logged back in an upon selecting play the game started and I changed to my alt.
I tried just quitting the game with the windows X ornament, and the Launcher again refused to start a new session.
Is this exceptional behavior on my machine, or a known limitation with the new launcher?
I noted these things in an earlier post, too...
If you run just the ExeFile.exe, then the Logoff button is there in the ESC dialog. It's not there if you use the Launcher. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Naritan
Shooting Red Crosses
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:23:00 -
[2300] - Quote
CCP would you mind terribly if you could enable pasting into the username/password boxes? I really would prefer to not have to type in my 30+ character passwords each and every time and just be able to paste it into the boxes...like I used to... |
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Par'Gellen
230
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:24:00 -
[2301] - Quote
Mangold wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Mara Ziyal wrote:Well im reading lots of hints and guides of how to multibox with the new launcher, but my problem is totally different. Every time i start a client, the launcher vanishes and locks up in the background. To start it again for the next client i have to kill like 3-4 entities of launcher.exe with the task manager every single time! Don't use the launcher. Create a desktop shortcut to the ExeFile.exe in ../bin folder. It's all I use now to get around the complete [expletive deleted] that is the new launcher. Ah great. Thanks. Feels like the launcher may end up like captains quarter's. I removed that the first day and have never used it again. Until they classify this as a "bug" and "fix" it so you HAVE to use the launcher. I'm setting up my shortcut now but I will not be surprised when it no longer works. CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
183
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:26:00 -
[2302] - Quote
my guess is their goal is not to prevent or make it more difficult to have multiple accounts, but to more effectively track those that do. i'm no programming expert, but i believe the new launcher makes it easier for CCP to see which accounts share a similar owner. CCP has stated numerous times that they can't effectively track how many distinct individuals are actually playing the game. problem is, we all have to suffer so they can track this better. that's my impression anyways. |
Condritis Aideron
Yvan Naretev Corporation The Butterfly Effect Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:31:00 -
[2303] - Quote
Still getting the Launcher offline message. Wouldnt be quite so bad but they took my subscription fee today the very day they screwed up with this crappy useless new Launcher. They must be employing former Blizzard workers as the attitude to their paying customers sucks! |
Par'Gellen
231
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:31:00 -
[2304] - Quote
Iosue wrote:my guess is their goal is not to prevent or make it more difficult to have multiple accounts, but to more effectively track those that do. i'm no programming expert, but i believe the new launcher makes it easier for CCP to see which accounts share a similar owner. CCP has stated numerous times that they can't effectively track how many distinct individuals are actually playing the game. problem is, we all have to suffer so they can track this better. that's my impression anyways. I would have no problem with that. It's the "making it harder to log in" part that I have the issue with. CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
5par7icus
Tactical Munitions Sev3rance
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:31:00 -
[2305] - Quote
Is it just me or has CCP never actually apologized to its customers for any of the screw ups in the last few years, if they have haven't seen them |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1317
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:31:00 -
[2306] - Quote
Par'Gellen wrote:Mangold wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Mara Ziyal wrote:Well im reading lots of hints and guides of how to multibox with the new launcher, but my problem is totally different. Every time i start a client, the launcher vanishes and locks up in the background. To start it again for the next client i have to kill like 3-4 entities of launcher.exe with the task manager every single time! Don't use the launcher. Create a desktop shortcut to the ExeFile.exe in ../bin folder. It's all I use now to get around the complete [expletive deleted] that is the new launcher. Ah great. Thanks. Feels like the launcher may end up like captains quarter's. I removed that the first day and have never used it again. Until they classify this as a "bug" and "fix" it so you HAVE to use the launcher. I'm setting up my shortcut now but I will not be surprised when it no longer works.
I honestly have no doubt that this will only work in the short term, and CCP will, in fact, prevent this from working. Ironic in that, but you're correct, I fear. Even a VM isn't an option for multi-boxing, given the cost/requirement of OS licenses. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
AndromacheDarkstar
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
757
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:32:00 -
[2307] - Quote
Iosue wrote:my guess is their goal is not to prevent or make it more difficult to have multiple accounts, but to more effectively track those that do. i'm no programming expert, but i believe the new launcher makes it easier for CCP to see which accounts share a similar owner. CCP has stated numerous times that they can't effectively track how many distinct individuals are actually playing the game. problem is, we all have to suffer so they can track this better. that's my impression anyways.
It makes absolutely no sense for them to try and discourage multiple accounts, it would deciamte the account base and cost CCP a fortune. Knowing which accounts are connected does make allot of sense when it comes to figuring out botting/RMT issues and player number counts Join the ZC Pub chat channel today and talk about joining-áZebra corp, hands down the best PVP corp in EVE keeping CFC killboards in the green singlehandedly |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
640
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:34:00 -
[2308] - Quote
Par'Gellen wrote:dark dreamur wrote:also calling a landing page that makes it harder to load up our multiple accounts " improved" dons't seem like a shinning example of buissnes savvy. I would think in these hard economic times you would be encouraging people to have as many accounts as possible. I was also confused by this. After reading some of CCP Atropos' posts it looks like they want to get away from allowing players to have multiple accounts. If this is true then the new launcher that makes it such a headache to log in is a great first step. There are about 500,000 active accounts in EVE. i would say at least 150,000 of those are alt accounts, not everyone has alt accounts, but some have several making up for those that do not. There was one guy that had over 70 active accounts at one point.
So yeah, if they want to give up 20-30% of their active subs, this is a step in the right direction. |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
249
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:35:00 -
[2309] - Quote
Sigh.... so what happened to the new CCP that sticks to it's promises? Anyone got links to all the posts and blogs where they promised they wouldn't take away the awesome login screen and replace it with the launcher? Would be nice to link them all here as they seem to have problems remembering things. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1319
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:39:00 -
[2310] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote:Sigh.... so what happened to the new CCP that sticks to it's promises? Anyone got links to all the posts and blogs where they promised they wouldn't take away the awesome login screen and replace it with the launcher? Would be nice to link them all here as they seem to have problems remembering things.
People in positions of power/authority say whatever they need to say to keep the masses calm & quiet, with no intention of keeping their word. I don't even need to suggest any real-life examples of this. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
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