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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 39 post(s) |
Par'Gellen
231
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Posted - 2013.05.22 15:40:00 -
[2311] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Par'Gellen wrote:dark dreamur wrote:also calling a landing page that makes it harder to load up our multiple accounts " improved" dons't seem like a shinning example of buissnes savvy. I would think in these hard economic times you would be encouraging people to have as many accounts as possible. I was also confused by this. After reading some of CCP Atropos' posts it looks like they want to get away from allowing players to have multiple accounts. If this is true then the new launcher that makes it such a headache to log in is a great first step. There are about 500,000 active accounts in EVE. i would say at least 150,000 of those are alt accounts, not everyone has alt accounts, but some have several making up for those that do not. There was one guy that had over 70 active accounts at one point. So yeah, if they want to give up 20-30% of their active subs, this is a step in the right direction. Those numbers probably aren't far off. I'd probably guess around the same figures. I only run 4 accounts myself (I know others that run far more) and can tell you that logging in went from taking seconds with the old launcher to over two minutes with the new one. Bad bad bad. CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
1202
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:43:00 -
[2312] - Quote
why CCP what as wrong with the old system muktiboxing now ois tedious and the cpu use is making the game laggy because of this new login system
your end goal might be noble but your execution is flawed time and time again
this doesn't bode well for the new expansion in less than 2 weeks and if you do not solve the muktiboxing issues within you are going to lose alot of accounts I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Jarnis McPieksu
433
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:44:00 -
[2313] - Quote
Verite Rendition wrote:I won't drone on too long, but as a symbolic link user, I agree with many of the others that this new launcher is a step back right now. I'm generally happy with the launcher, but the fact that the launcher only remembers one of my accounts is a speedy ticket to madness on my part. The launcher needs to store its settings on a per-instance basis, just as the client does today. If it did that, then everything would be cool. And please stop storing the Launcher cache/settings in Program Files. That data needs to be in ProgramData or in the User folder. Program Files is for program files; storing user data in Program Files is highly discouraged and developers were supposed to stop doing that 7 years ago with Vista. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd560744%28v=ws.10%29.aspx
This might actually be one of the reasons why it doesn't remember accepting EULA etc.
Limited user accounts can't write to Program Files without explicitly elevating to admin rights.
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Par'Gellen
231
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Posted - 2013.05.22 15:47:00 -
[2314] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Verite Rendition wrote:I won't drone on too long, but as a symbolic link user, I agree with many of the others that this new launcher is a step back right now. I'm generally happy with the launcher, but the fact that the launcher only remembers one of my accounts is a speedy ticket to madness on my part. The launcher needs to store its settings on a per-instance basis, just as the client does today. If it did that, then everything would be cool. And please stop storing the Launcher cache/settings in Program Files. That data needs to be in ProgramData or in the User folder. Program Files is for program files; storing user data in Program Files is highly discouraged and developers were supposed to stop doing that 7 years ago with Vista. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd560744%28v=ws.10%29.aspx This might actually be one of the reasons why it doesn't remember accepting EULA etc. Limited user accounts can't write to Program Files without explicitly elevating to admin rights. Good point! I didn't think of that.
Hey CCP, 1995 called. They want their method of storing data files back. CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Angelus Ryan
Ama Nesciri.
33
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Posted - 2013.05.22 15:52:00 -
[2315] - Quote
Iosue wrote:my guess is their goal is not to prevent or make it more difficult to have multiple accounts, but to more effectively track those that do. i'm no programming expert, but i believe the new launcher makes it easier for CCP to see which accounts share a similar owner. CCP has stated numerous times that they can't effectively track how many distinct individuals are actually playing the game. problem is, we all have to suffer so they can track this better. that's my impression anyways.
At least in the case of paying customers, this is pretty easy (I am willing to wager that most of those who pay money for subs on multiple characters do so from the same payment method). Not to mention that it is very easy to group accounts by the source IP address that is used to connect to them and establish a decent mapping of individual account owners up to the limitation of changing dynamic IP addresses, but you'll still see multiple accounts from the same IP, the IP will just change from time to time. Most people do not reboot their modems/routers daily, or even weekly and most ISPs do not force you to change your IP address very often. Connection port origin can even be used to differentiate between people behind a NAT, although things do get murky at that point.
But at the bottom line: Who cares? A game that frequently offers "Power of 2" promotions cannot suddenly change its stance to make multi-accounting harder, or even less convenient. I do not care if they can't track ****: If it makes my gaming less convenient than it was previously for the same amount of monthly subscription they can definitely expect me to be less than content.
"Suffer" my arse.
And again: The fact that this might, at some point in the future, lead to some unknown improvement in anything is not a reason that things should be screwed up now. Half-features are bugs, not features. That's all the associated problems aside (like missing client settings and all the other launcher PITAs).
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Cevin North
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
7
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Posted - 2013.05.22 15:56:00 -
[2316] - Quote
ugh, still errors on hat cursed launcher, This is what hidden on the left side of the launcher:
Error -7 when loading url https://login.eveonline.com/oauth/authorize/?client_id=eveLauncherTQ&lang=en&response_type=token&redirect_uri=https://login.eveonline.com/launcher?client_id=eveLauncherTQ&scope=eveClientToken
Please shoe the damn thing alread.... |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14761
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:57:00 -
[2317] - Quote
I understand and welcome the move to a master login, that encompasses all accounts. It will eventually, (I hope) be an easier way to start and manage the way we play. But while we wait for this, could you please continue to include ways for us to avoid using the launcher.
Things about the launcher I would like you to change please.
- When I enter my account details, please allow the option to right click/paste into the password box. It's possible with the old login screen, but not with the launcher. (yes Ctrl V works)
- When my details are entered and I select LOG IN, it means I want to play. Why do you then present me with yet another button that says PLAY? Could you please either remove this step, or give me the option to remove it in the settings. So I can simply launch straight in.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
gazarsgo
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
18
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:00:00 -
[2318] - Quote
The tears in this thread remind me of the tears streaming down Spock's face when Khan kills Kirk. |
camdrom
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:02:00 -
[2319] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote:
To expand on this point, there are a number of exotic setups for multiboxing involving either multiple physical installs of the game, hybrid symlinks, junctions, soft links, hard links, partial copies and more. And in almost every single case people multi box for one reason: to be able to have individual setups for their settings, or to hasten the login flow. The deployment today, as difficult and bad as it was (for which I apologise) was to deploy the single sign on service, through which we can start to work on these issues. My hope is that in the end, you will be able to log into the EVE Launcher once, which downloads your settings from the cloud, with all of your accounts linked, via either a single EVE master account or via some other OAuth provider, and be able to select characters and switch between them at the click of a single button.
As for the log off button, many people don't really use it to log off from the game, but rather as a quick means to quit the game and restart at the login screen. The new token based authentication that the EVE Launcher uses isn't cleared by the EVE client, and so when it attempts to restart, it will actually attempt to reconnect with expired credentials which would throw an error message. It isn't perfect though, and we will be working on a fix for this tomorrow and in the coming days.
How is it you guys know so much about the why, whats, and how we all play your game, but you logs never show a ##$&@ thing.
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Riela Tanal
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
2
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:03:00 -
[2320] - Quote
Is it by design to have to accept the EULA every single time you change your account your logging into now? If no then that should be fixed, it is a tad tedius to change accounts and constantly reaccept the EULA. |
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waferzankko
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
16
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:04:00 -
[2321] - Quote
the new launcher gives me a sad face on the inside.
i dont like it. |
Steijn
Quay Industries CAStabouts
287
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:05:00 -
[2322] - Quote
gazarsgo wrote:The tears in this thread remind me of the tears streaming down Spock's face when Khan kills Kirk.
or the future tears that will run down CCPs faces when they are watching all the alt accounts get unsubbed because they decided not to fix it. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1320
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:09:00 -
[2323] - Quote
Riela Tanal wrote:Is it by design to have to accept the EULA every single time you change your account your logging into now? If no then that should be fixed, it is a tad tedius to change accounts and constantly reaccept the EULA.
Someone suggested in an earlier post that, since CCP is now storing DATA in the Program Files folder for the game, that non-admin Windows accounts can't update the DATA (that is being stored in the wrong place), hence no remembering anything from past logins. Makes sense...
Just odd that a software development company in this day and age are STORING USER DATA IN THE PROGRAM FILES folder... "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Drekarg
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
19
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:10:00 -
[2324] - Quote
I've just come back to this awfulness, why CCP why? |
5par7icus
Tactical Munitions Sev3rance
1
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:12:00 -
[2325] - Quote
Steijn wrote:gazarsgo wrote:The tears in this thread remind me of the tears streaming down Spock's face when Khan kills Kirk. or the future tears that will run down CCPs faces when they are watching all the alt accounts get unsubbed because they decided not to fix it.
I have just unsubbed my 2 alts and i doubt that CCP will do enough for me to restart them anytime soon |
Par'Gellen
232
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:14:00 -
[2326] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Riela Tanal wrote:Is it by design to have to accept the EULA every single time you change your account your logging into now? If no then that should be fixed, it is a tad tedius to change accounts and constantly reaccept the EULA. Someone suggested in an earlier post that, since CCP is now storing DATA in the Program Files folder for the game, that non-admin Windows accounts can't update the DATA (that is being stored in the wrong place), hence no remembering anything from past logins. Makes sense... Just odd that a software development company in this day and age are STORING USER DATA IN THE PROGRAM FILES folder... It's even worse with Windows 7 if you have User Account Control turned on. Even with admin rights you can't fark around in the Program Files folder. CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
5par7icus
Tactical Munitions Sev3rance
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:15:00 -
[2327] - Quote
I still haven't actually seen an actual apology from anyone at CCP for the latest debacle, just dev posts saying that this is what went wrong (maybe)
fail CCP |
Nervon
HaveItYourWay Corp
4
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:16:00 -
[2328] - Quote
I don't see a reason for the new 'feature' what does this add? this only hinders people with multiple accounts -yes, you can just use the ExeFile.exe can we go back to when things were done for a reason i don't understand why some things are changed.. and that is OK but this 'feature' is useless -please remove
What about this letter from the CEO: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2672
"You have spoken, loudly and clearly, with your words and with your actions. And there were definitely moments in recent history when I wish I would have listened more and taken a different path."
"But enough talk from me. We all know that much quoted phrase, GÇ£ItGÇÖs not what you say, itGÇÖs what you do,GÇ¥ that will make the difference here. From now on, CCP will focus on doing what we say and saying what we do. That is the path to restoring trust and moving forward." |
No Alibi
Shadow Brokers
28
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:18:00 -
[2329] - Quote
Hell, I would like it to remember my password as well (as an option) Yes. Seems to be working. Will we have to accept the EULA every time??? First time logging on, all settings were gone. Relogged and they were returned.. I fly by the seat of my pants, No wonder my-áass is always on fire! |
Malou Hashur
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:23:00 -
[2330] - Quote
So....the new launcher.
I always mult-box and do not particularly want to have muliple instances of the launcer open just sitting there after I log on. So, I select the "close launcher after log on" option, just like I did with the old launcher....
BUT....when I want to swap characters on the same account, there is no longer a logoff button, only a quit game button. So now I have to re-launch the new crappy launcher, instead of just of the client automatically going back to the logon screen.
Awesome CCP, if only there was a test server to try your new fancy ideas out on before introducing them to TQ...oh wait..... |
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MaRU2760 133
Veerhouven Ventures
5
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:23:00 -
[2331] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote:As for the log off button, many people don't really use it to log off from the game, but rather as a quick means to quit the game and restart at the login screen.
That is how I used to change characters. I don't think I am the only one. Is there something wrong with that?
The button was clearly labled 'Logoff'. Are you saying that is not what it was for?
What are the chances of getting it back? |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1321
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:26:00 -
[2332] - Quote
MaRU2760 133 wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:As for the log off button, many people don't really use it to log off from the game, but rather as a quick means to quit the game and restart at the login screen. That is how I used to change characters. I don't think I am the only one. Is there something wrong with that? The button was clearly labled 'Logoff'. Are you saying that is not what it was for? What are the chances of getting it back?
Same here. I used the Logoff more often than I used the quit. If I was quitting the game session I'd just dock up and click the big red "X". Simple.
The Logoff button *is* still available if you launch the app from ExeFile.exe; it's just shut-off if you use the Launcher. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Par'Gellen
232
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:26:00 -
[2333] - Quote
MaRU2760 133 wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:As for the log off button, many people don't really use it to log off from the game, but rather as a quick means to quit the game and restart at the login screen. That is how I used to change characters. I don't think I am the only one. Is there something wrong with that? The button was clearly labled 'Logoff'. Are you saying that is not what it was for? What are the chances of getting it back? You weren't the only one. I used it multiple times a day on 4 different accounts. CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
641
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:27:00 -
[2334] - Quote
Angelus Ryan wrote:Iosue wrote:my guess is their goal is not to prevent or make it more difficult to have multiple accounts, but to more effectively track those that do. i'm no programming expert, but i believe the new launcher makes it easier for CCP to see which accounts share a similar owner. CCP has stated numerous times that they can't effectively track how many distinct individuals are actually playing the game. problem is, we all have to suffer so they can track this better. that's my impression anyways. At least in the case of paying customers, this is pretty easy (I am willing to wager that most of those who pay money for subs on multiple characters do so from the same payment method). Not to mention that it is very easy to group accounts by the source IP address that is used to connect to them and establish a decent mapping of individual account owners up to the limitation of changing dynamic IP addresses, but you'll still see multiple accounts from the same IP, the IP will just change from time to time. Most people do not reboot their modems/routers daily, or even weekly and most ISPs do not force you to change your IP address very often. Connection port origin can even be used to differentiate between people behind a NAT, although things do get murky at that point. But at the bottom line: Who cares? A game that frequently offers "Power of 2" promotions cannot suddenly change its stance to make multi-accounting harder, or even less convenient. I do not care if they can't track ****: If it makes my gaming less convenient than it was previously for the same amount of monthly subscription they can definitely expect me to be less than content. "Suffer" my arse. And again: The fact that this might, at some point in the future, lead to some unknown improvement in anything is not a reason that things should be screwed up now. Half-features are bugs, not features. That's all the associated problems aside (like missing client settings and all the other launcher PITAs). It is far easier to track mulitboxers than that. they have been doing for years by tracking the IP of log ins. Sure there are some cases where different users can have the same IP like logging in from dorm rooms, but Have you ever tried to log in a trial account while already having an active account logged in? It will not let you, it knows there is another account logged in from the same IP. You can get around this if you have multiple IP's either through multiple ISP's or multiple static IP's for what ever reason. It is not a perfect system, but I would say 95% of the accounts logged in from the same IP are a single users mutiboxing.
EVE is a game where mutiboxing works well and is much easier to manage than many other games. Much of CCP's revenue comes from multiboxers. making their game play more frustrating ins not good for business. |
Malou Hashur
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:28:00 -
[2335] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Steijn wrote:CCP Guard wrote:AndromacheDarkstar wrote:So this is a workaround for one problem, is there any word on fixing all of the other issues that the launcher has caused. Id also love to know if CCP had figures on how many of its customers had actually disabled the previous launcher. It seems like this is a really really unwelcome change . Some of of the issues people are talking about aren't things the Community team can point out a workaround to. All issues that don't have workarounds will have to be looked at by the developers and either they themselves or us will keep you posted on any updates on that front. Why was this rush released when its obviously not ready? Is it because you need it running before June 4th? We cannot give you all the answers right at this moment. At the moment people are either having meetings to go through this and/or working on solutions. It would be rash to say too much right now. We can only ask for your patience while we decide the next steps and we will get back to you with any information that we have to share.
HELLOOOOO......THATS WHAT THE FREAKING TEST SERVER IS FOR FFS !!!.
What is wrong with you people ????
Seriously |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
487
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:28:00 -
[2336] - Quote
MaRU2760 133 wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:As for the log off button, many people don't really use it to log off from the game, but rather as a quick means to quit the game and restart at the login screen. That is how I used to change characters. I don't think I am the only one. Is there something wrong with that? The button was clearly labled 'Logoff'. Are you saying that is not what it was for? What are the chances of getting it back?
the launcher and the client don't really talk to each other. if you choose restart it does nothing. as it cant tell the launcher to restart.
that's the same for the log off button. to make the launcher seam less shite, it was removed as it no longer functioned.
using the bin folder exe to by pass the launcher, and the log off and restart buttons still work, no launcher to bother talking to OMG when can i get a pic here
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Steijn
Quay Industries CAStabouts
288
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:28:00 -
[2337] - Quote
if its so that they know who is on what account, just make it part of the EULA that you have to disclose how many accounts and which they are, otherwise the banhammer falls. |
Lord Haur
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
81
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:30:00 -
[2338] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:It is far easier to track mulitboxers than that. they have been doing for years by tracking the IP of log ins. Sure there are some cases where different users can have the same IP like logging in from dorm rooms, but Have you ever tried to log in a trial account while already having an active account logged in? It will not let you, it knows there is another account logged in from the same IP. You can get around this if you have multiple IP's either through multiple ISP's or multiple static IP's for what ever reason. It is not a perfect system, but I would say 95% of the accounts logged in from the same IP are a single users mutiboxing.
EVE is a game where mutiboxing works well and is much easier to manage than many other games. Much of CCP's revenue comes from multiboxers. making their game play more frustrating ins not good for business. IIRC, the trial account limitation is purely on the computer used for the trial account. I've run trial+subbed accounts across multiple PCs behind the same router and single internet connection without problems. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
499
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:32:00 -
[2339] - Quote
5par7icus wrote:Steijn wrote:gazarsgo wrote:The tears in this thread remind me of the tears streaming down Spock's face when Khan kills Kirk. or the future tears that will run down CCPs faces when they are watching all the alt accounts get unsubbed because they decided not to fix it. I have just unsubbed my 2 alts and i doubt that CCP will do enough for me to restart them anytime soon
no one will miss your alts. |
Di'zz
cyBERLINe
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:33:00 -
[2340] - Quote
The launcher is written in Python. WHY??? It uses up 100MB of RAM, thats 600MB for all my accounts. So now I have to manually close the goddam thing? |
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