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Myth Widowmaker
Hattori Shogunate Claimed.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.21 19:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ever wonder how much power/IRL money is used in running those servers at CCP?
Makes me wonder how much of that is actually being used for active players...not just hundreds *if not thousands* of players who are afk either in station or in space.
So...here is my proposed solution.
After 15 mins of inactivity a window pops up in a random place on the screen. *random every time to prevent botters*
A notification that says "Are you afk? Yes, No?" or something creative to that effect where the player has to click "NO".
If the player doesn't click "NO" a 15 min timer pops up and after that 15 minute timer expires they get logged off.
I bet if CCP was having any server issues due to thousands of players being AFK. This would not only help *not totally fix* with afk cloaky campers but CCP will save money because the server load would be reduced due to less power needed to run the server for "X amount of afk players"
My 2 isk.
Myth |
Mr Flipao
WALLTREIPERS WALLTREIPERS ALLIANCE
0
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Posted - 2013.05.21 19:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm sick of AFK cloakers.
Sadly, said cloakers belong to an already well established part of the gameplay, so most likely CCP won't give a dong. :( |
Scooter McCabe
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
171
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Posted - 2013.05.22 00:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Myth Widowmaker wrote:Ever wonder how much power/IRL money is used in running those servers at CCP?
Tears, tears, tears *proposes game chance the specifically benefits me the cry baby* Tears, tears, tears...
Myth
Fixed that for you.
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Master PewPew
Minute Man Mining and Industry
0
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Posted - 2013.05.22 02:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scooter McCabe wrote:Myth Widowmaker wrote:Ever wonder how much power/IRL money is used in running those servers at CCP?
Tears, tears, tears *proposes *a game *change the specifically benefits me*, the cry baby* Tears, tears, tears...
Myth Fixed that for you.
Fixed that for you!
I agree with OP...it isn't just Null sec cloaky campers that this will effect. Ever try to get into Jita on a crowded day? 90% of Jita is afk...just sayin bro....
Oh...BTW...Scooter...do you even lift bro? |
Lykouleon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
734
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Posted - 2013.05.22 04:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Show me on the doll where the bad AFK person touched you. Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD
Also, your boobs :o --áCCP Eterne, 2012.11.05 14:50 |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
303
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Posted - 2013.05.22 07:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Can someone please explain to me how an AFK Cloaker *actually* affects you? I realise that you may not want to take the risk and perform activities in system when they are there, but surely you could move to a system nearby? Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
222
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Posted - 2013.05.22 09:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Don't you just love nerf AFK cloaking threads. This one has a better hook than most though in that it attempts to appeal directly to CCP's accounts department. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1313
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Posted - 2013.05.22 10:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
This is not a "fix to AFK cloakers" because "AFK cloakers" are not a problem.
Cloaked ships are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone while cloaked, afk players are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone too
They are a double none-threat
So what is the issue here, mate? Are your bots not working because they're programmed to run if local changes? |
DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
108
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Posted - 2013.05.22 12:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:This is not a "fix to AFK cloakers" because "AFK cloakers" are not a problem.
Cloaked ships are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone while cloaked, afk players are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone too
They are a double none-threat
So what is the issue here, mate? Are your bots not working because they're programmed to run if local changes?
I setup a program to take screenshots every 30 seconds and use it to monitor activity of players I have tagged in People and Places and coordinate that with players going in and out of local.
I don't really swing either way at the moment, but I do find it strange that in just about every SciFi system we know of, cloaks usually have massive limitations on how they can be used, yet EVE has none. Activate and just run it forever. I can imagine how boring movies would be if infinite use cloaks were available to everyone.
That said, I would probably prefer if some minimal player interaction was needed to keep the cloak up for extended periods, as long as it could not be automated. I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Anomalous Existence Disavowed.
118
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Posted - 2013.05.22 15:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:This is not a "fix to AFK cloakers" because "AFK cloakers" are not a problem.
Cloaked ships are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone while cloaked, afk players are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone too
They are a double none-threat
So what is the issue here, mate? Are your bots not working because they're programmed to run if local changes? I setup a program to take screenshots every 30 seconds and use it to monitor activity of players I have tagged in People and Places and coordinate that with players going in and out of local. I don't really swing either way at the moment, but I do find it strange that in just about every SciFi system we know of, cloaks usually have massive limitations on how they can be used, yet EVE has none. Activate and just run it forever. I can imagine how boring movies would be if infinite use cloaks were available to everyone. That said, I would probably prefer if some minimal player interaction was needed to keep the cloak up for extended periods, as long as it could not be automated. Obviously you aren't familiar with just how vicious the sensor and speed penalties on cloaks are. (Or how hard recal delay hits you, for that matter.)
Besides, running around breaking cloaking willy-nilly would have some rather undesired effects on the WH metagame. |
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
675
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Posted - 2013.05.23 10:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fifteen to sixty minute user selectable timeout with a 60s pop-up (location is irrelevant, bots are more than capable of window ident), but only in stations .. people in space must be assumed active no matter what.
If you want to get rid of cloakers, then come up with ways for us players to hunt the bastards down, not for them to be arbitrarily removed from game.
Example AFK-C solution: Space equivalent to sonar (LADAR?) buoys, launched from Core probe launchers with the effect of increasing probability of scanning down a cloaked vessel (without actually decloaking it). Should be possible to add signature to ships under cloak, just make them unprobable by default (think old T3's) and then increasing sig using buoys to a point where it is possible but very hard to pin-point them .. if it truly is AFK then the hunting party eventually decloaks him by proximity, if he is not then he is not covered by the issue and thus in need of a solution. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14762
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 13:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Myth Widowmaker wrote:Ever wonder how much power/IRL money is used in running those servers at CCP?
Makes me wonder how much of that is actually being used for active players...not just hundreds *if not thousands* of players who are afk either in station or in space.
So...here is my proposed solution.
After 15 mins of inactivity a window pops up in a random place on the screen. *random every time to prevent botters*
A notification that says "Are you afk? Yes, No?" or something creative to that effect where the player has to click "NO".
If the player doesn't click "NO" a 15 min timer pops up and after that 15 minute timer expires they get logged off.
I bet if CCP was having any server issues due to thousands of players being AFK. This would not only help *not totally fix* with afk cloaky campers but CCP will save money because the server load would be reduced due to less power needed to run the server for "X amount of afk players"
My 2 isk.
Myth Just about everything in that OP was a Myth.
For a solution, there needs to be a problem. AFK player server load isn't one and neither is AFK cloaking.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
All the willy nilly here.
AFK cloakers are not a problem because they're AFK.
The problem is that it's a schroedingers cloaker, the cloaky may or may not be AFK you never know, but if you don't act like he is behind his keyboard (even if het might well be AFK going to the pub, having a good time with his girlfriend or just sleeping) you ARE going to lose your ship sooner rather then later.
And there's the imbalance, when I play eve, I'm behind my keyboard. The cloaker might as well not be behind the keyboard 90% of the time, I still have to act as if he is active, because I never know when he IS going to be active.
So, even when not behind the keyboard the cloaker is effecting my gameplay directly. I don't mind cloakers effecting my gameplay but please let them be behind the keyboard when they effect my gameplay, just like me when I'm playing.
Then we have balance. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14768
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 14:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sjugar wrote:All the willy nilly here.
AFK cloakers are not a problem because they're AFK.
The problem is that it's a schroedingers cloaker, the cloaky may or may not be AFK you never know, but if you don't act like he is behind his keyboard (even if het might well be AFK going to the pub, having a good time with his girlfriend or just sleeping) you ARE going to lose your ship sooner rather then later.
And there's the imbalance, when I play eve, I'm behind my keyboard. The cloaker might as well not be behind the keyboard 90% of the time, I still have to act as if he is active, because I never know when he IS going to be active.
So, even when not behind the keyboard the cloaker is effecting my gameplay directly. I don't mind cloakers effecting my gameplay but please let them be behind the keyboard when they effect my gameplay, just like me when I'm playing.
Then we have balance. What relevance does them being at the keyboard have? People should be allowed to play as and when they like. Plus as they are AFK and not actually playing, the one that's actually affecting your game play is you. It's your actions alone that keeps you docked or pos'ed up. No one cloaked and maybe AFK can stop you docking, undocking, moving systems, activating modules etc.etc.
But that's not really the issue you have here. The real issue you have is with another game mechanic.
Answer me this. While they are cloaked and maybe AFK, which mechanic are they using to interact with you?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1445
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 17:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mag's wrote:
But that's not really the issue you have here. The real issue you have is with another game mechanic.
Answer me this. While they are cloaked and maybe AFK, which mechanic are they using to interact with you?
Wait wait, I know this one!!!
I'll take The Problem is Local Chat for 500. Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2143
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
There are two problems related to "afk cloakers", but none of them are a problem with an afk cloaker.
Problem 1, Bridges: In the current incarnation, anyone with a BO BS or Titan can bridge in a (pragmatically) unscoutable force directly on top of you. The ability of a cloaker to almost instantly cyno in these overwhelming forces makes assessing the threat level impossible, which really screws up a lot of standard options for combating hostile cloakers. (Note: Bridges aren't all bad, but they are mostly OP in their current incarnation).
Problem 2, Local Chat being an omniscient intel tool: Since you can identify everyone in local, you can instantly identify when there is a hostile in system. The whole risk vs reward system is out of whack because people can, and do, get safe the instant local gains even an iota of risk. In EvE, you should always operate under the premise that "something wicked this way comes", and AFK cloaking is currently the ONLY means to re-introduce risk back into the system. (This is why people afk cloak).
Both of these are legitimate issues... AFK cloaking is NOT! |
Sayf ulMulk
Royal Starlancers
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.26 14:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
There is no way in current game mechanic to save someone from afk cloaker that gets active and opens cyno.
To minimize the effect of cloakers:
*You would need to have active fleet all the time 24/7. *You would need to fly pvp setups all the time. *If cyno opens evryone would need to warp immidiately to attacked ship.
Nothink from these three points above will happen. Running fleets 24/7 and mainly work in pvp setups is exhausting and can be done for a day but not for week. The afk cloaker that becomes active risks only 30 mil. While the target dies almost immidiately before even first response arrives. When the response fleet arrives the attackers are on their marry way out of the system.
This leads to extreme exhaustion on the side of defenders while the cyno p+¡lot didnt need to put any efffort at all.
Therefore i agree with the proposition or alternatively using fuel for the cloaking module or mechanism that would allow to uncloak ship if effort is put into it. |
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
527
|
Posted - 2013.05.26 20:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
AFK cloaking is not an issue. Wormhole space does not have local and no-one is complaining about AFK cloakers.
If you are worried about cloakers, move systems or be ready to PVP at all times.
In other words if there would be no local you would not be worried about afk cloakers at all. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1292
|
Posted - 2013.05.26 20:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
So, in short:
Remove freighters Remove hauling Remove repairing structures Remove shooting structures Remove station trading Remove market focussed characters Remove mining Remove camping Remove scouting Remove hiding Remove waiting
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
680
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 13:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:AFK cloaking is not an issue. Wormhole space does not have local and no-one is complaining about AFK cloakers. ... Invalid argument.
You cannot jump into a worm and popping cynos is one of the principal functions as well as threat posed by cloakers .. ie. the lack of local has nothing to do with it.
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Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Anomalous Existence Disavowed.
118
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 21:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:AFK cloaking is not an issue. Wormhole space does not have local and no-one is complaining about AFK cloakers. ... Invalid argument. You cannot jump into a worm and popping cynos is one of the principal functions as well as threat posed by cloakers .. ie. the lack of local has nothing to do with it. *bops Veshta with a Local window* The problem isn't jumpdrives or cynos, it's local! No amount of pontificating about "AFK cloakers" is going to do anything about Local being a source of easy intel about K-space systems. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1323
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 12:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sjugar wrote:All the willy nilly here.
AFK cloakers are not a problem because they're AFK.
The problem is that it's a schroedingers cloaker, the cloaky may or may not be AFK you never know, but if you don't act like he is behind his keyboard (even if het might well be AFK going to the pub, having a good time with his girlfriend or just sleeping) you ARE going to lose your ship sooner rather then later.
And there's the imbalance, when I play eve, I'm behind my keyboard. The cloaker might as well not be behind the keyboard 90% of the time, I still have to act as if he is active, because I never know when he IS going to be active.
So, even when not behind the keyboard the cloaker is effecting my gameplay directly. I don't mind cloakers effecting my gameplay but please let them be behind the keyboard when they effect my gameplay, just like me when I'm playing.
Then we have balance.
Why is it a bad thing that you, someone who chose to live in nullsec, has to be on guard whenever someone is in local?
You're acting as if it's unfair that you can't PVE in perfect safety in bloody nullsec.
All the stuff you said applies just as well to wormholer players - and know what we do? We DO act like as if there is the possibility of hostiles appearing in system at any second. We don't cry about it being "unfair" because we're not silly. We chose to live in this area, we deal with the constant threat inherent with the type of play we sought out.
If you don't want to deal with that constant threat, there's highsec. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1323
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 12:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:AFK cloaking is not an issue. Wormhole space does not have local and no-one is complaining about AFK cloakers. ... Invalid argument. You cannot jump into a worm and popping cynos is one of the principal functions as well as threat posed by cloakers .. ie. the lack of local has nothing to do with it.
You can't light a cyno and jump in forces, but a K162 can open with zero notice and a fleet can slip in without any notice or warning. I say these are comparable situations. Except theres less tears from wormholes.
As for cynos in particular, the entire reason cynos are used for hot drops is - want to take a guess? - local. Local gives immediate, infallible information about fleet size and location, which makes it hard to hunt prey. Hot dropping is specifically used to get around that.
It ALL comes back to local. |
Black Dranzer
239
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Here are my problems with your suggestion.
The first is the false pretense that this has anything to do with server performance. The actual server cycles chewed up by people AFK in space is likely negligible. The people AFK in stations, even more so. Your argument comes across as a cheap attempt to appeal to authority, and it does not give you the appearance of impartiality. For your own sake, don't use it.
The second issue is that your suggestion is inelegant and ineffectual. For one, it doesn't cover the intrusion it serves to very passive miners or haulers. If it bases itself on ship action, a player can just park in a safe spot and start flying. If it bases itself on mouse action, a macro can be written to move the mouse. If it bases itself on player actions, a macro can be made to click the screen every so often. And if you want to counter that, you start getting into macro detection software which is prone to false positives and ends up consuming a load of client resources.
Notice how I haven't even brought into brought into question the legitimacy (or otherwise) of AFK cloaking yet. This is just a criticism of your idea even if we assume every supposition you pose is correct.
AFK cloaking has nothing to do with AFK and everything to do with the cloaking. It's not an issue with people AFKing, it's a fundamental issue with the way stealth is implemented in Eve:
Badly.
Cloaking is phenomenally stupid; Everybody in the system knows you're there, but they can't touch you. I'm a huge stealth fan in most every genre it appears. This is not good stealth. This is an invulnerability shield combined with a first strike bonus. It is an approximation of the effects of stealth, rather than an attempt to emulate its process. I've been over this many times before.
It'd take a long rant for me to properly communicate the issues with Eve's stealth, but the approximate fix is as such: It should be possible for you to watch people without them knowing that you're there. But if they do know you're there, they should be able to flush you out.
Contemplate this, then write up a new proposal. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2148
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:AFK cloaking is not an issue. Wormhole space does not have local and no-one is complaining about AFK cloakers. ... Invalid argument. You cannot jump into a worm and popping cynos is one of the principal functions as well as threat posed by cloakers .. ie. the lack of local has nothing to do with it. You can't light a cyno and jump in forces, but a K162 can open with zero notice and a fleet can slip in without any notice or warning. I say these are comparable situations. Except theres less tears from wormholes. As for cynos in particular, the entire reason cynos are used for hot drops is - want to take a guess? - local. Local gives immediate, infallible information about fleet size and location, which makes it hard to hunt prey. Hot dropping is specifically used to get around that. It ALL comes back to local.
Two points:
WH-bearning and Nullbearing are entirely different animals.
In a WH, the rats deal omni damage, and are potent enough that anyone "dropping in" needs to cope with their firepower too! In a C4-C6 WH, you generally run sites as a "group" activity, often with logistics. This makes attacking you much more difficult! In a WH, while a K162 "may" pop up at any time, most of the WH's that access your space are fairly controllable. (Holes are often closed prior to PvE activities, which means your "aggressors" either already need to be in system prior to the start of your PvE operations, or be very lucky to find a new WH to you).
Nullbears on the other hand: -- Thanks to in game tools, it's very easy to identify and travel to any system that is regularly used for PvE. -- Thanks to local, it's very easy to identify when hostiles are about. No hostiles = 100% safe, which shouldn't be the modis operandi! -- Hotdrop mechanics allow an enemy to essentially drop any size force directly on top of a target (< 10 seconds for a fleet to enter the battle). This is much, much different than having a force enter system and warp to a fleet to gank them (> 30s for a fleet to enter battle!). -- PvE generally doesn't pay as well, although it pays far more consistently, for as long as anyone wants to PvE.
Now, I'm certainly not advocating for a tool to "hunt afk cloakers". I'm just pointing out your comparison between Nullbearing and Wormbearing doesn't really hold water. I already elaborated earlier, the two major problems in nullsec surrounding "AFK cloakers" are the hotdrop mechanics and the omniscient local intel "tool", neither of which are issues in WH's because neither exists in WHs! |
Laura Dexx
Fractional Warfare
28
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
A cloaker is AFK:
You move one system over and you can feel safe again.
A cloaker is not AFK:
There is no problem whatsoever.
Are you really bringing the servers into this argument? You know that a player that is pretty much AFK drains almost no resources? |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1325
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:AFK cloaking is not an issue. Wormhole space does not have local and no-one is complaining about AFK cloakers. ... Invalid argument. You cannot jump into a worm and popping cynos is one of the principal functions as well as threat posed by cloakers .. ie. the lack of local has nothing to do with it. You can't light a cyno and jump in forces, but a K162 can open with zero notice and a fleet can slip in without any notice or warning. I say these are comparable situations. Except theres less tears from wormholes. As for cynos in particular, the entire reason cynos are used for hot drops is - want to take a guess? - local. Local gives immediate, infallible information about fleet size and location, which makes it hard to hunt prey. Hot dropping is specifically used to get around that. It ALL comes back to local. Two points: WH-bearning and Nullbearing are entirely different animals. In a WH, the rats deal omni damage, and are potent enough that anyone "dropping in" needs to cope with their firepower too! In a C4-C6 WH, you generally run sites as a "group" activity, often with logistics. This makes attacking you much more difficult! In a WH, while a K162 "may" pop up at any time, most of the WH's that access your space are fairly controllable. (Holes are often closed prior to PvE activities, which means your "aggressors" either already need to be in system prior to the start of your PvE operations, or be very lucky to find a new WH to you). Nullbears on the other hand: -- Thanks to in game tools, it's very easy to identify and travel to any system that is regularly used for PvE. -- Thanks to local, it's very easy to identify when hostiles are about. No hostiles = 100% safe, which shouldn't be the modis operandi! -- Hotdrop mechanics allow an enemy to essentially drop any size force directly on top of a target (< 10 seconds for a fleet to enter the battle). This is much, much different than having a force enter system and warp to a fleet to gank them (> 30s for a fleet to enter battle!). -- PvE generally doesn't pay as well, although it pays far more consistently, for as long as anyone wants to PvE. Now, I'm certainly not advocating for a tool to "hunt afk cloakers". I'm just pointing out your comparison between Nullbearing and Wormbearing doesn't really hold water. I already elaborated earlier, the two major problems in nullsec surrounding "AFK cloakers" are the hotdrop mechanics and the omniscient local intel "tool", neither of which are issues in WH's because neither exists in WHs!
The differences you mention do exist, but personally I think at a higher, more general level they're relatively analogous. They both boil down to an enemy force appearing in your system without prior warning (due to no local / k162s and cynos, respectively) and without much time to react.
As for the PVE being 'different' (ie it being a group activity with much hardier ships/logistics in wormholes, vs solo in null) - that only really applies to the higher levels. People often do solo the lower classes, in weak pve specific fits, but even they aren't moaning about stuff.
Really, it strikes me as more of a difference in attitude: Far too many people think they SHOULD be able to dedicate their ships, fittings and playstyle entirely to PVE in null and not have to make any trade offs to deal with the Nasty Men Who Hunt Them. Wormholers either are willing to make that tradeoff without making threads begging for 'fixes', or are just crazy enough to not care in the first place
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
684
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 10:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:*bops Veshta with a Local window* The problem isn't jumpdrives or cynos, it's local! No amount of pontificating about "AFK cloakers" is going to do anything about Local being a source of easy intel about K-space systems.
TheGunslinger42 wrote:...It ALL comes back to local. Do you girls honestly believe that removal of local is the end-all of solutions?
Comparisons with worm space fail because 'normal' conditions are so different from K-space; probes are permanently in space, access can be controlled 99% and any potential threat can be neutralized using what amounts to generic fits. Security in worm space is a non-issue if you are sufficiently organized, the only threat comes from running into someone who has even better organization and/or will as the guys who went in and logged off until enough force was in system to do the job .. there is NO comparison to ordinary null space.
Don't get me wrong, I too want local control to be in the hands of whomever controls a given space or in the very least to be a delayed sort of thing .. where we differ is that I do not buy into the idea that it is all-important, I see it as smaller, albeit integral, part of it. No one wants to have to spam scan and the potential benefits of K-space will never be enough (it would break the game) to justify the kind of vigilance needed for survival in worms.
So ... remove/delay local .. but do a number on local/access as a whole at the same time: - redo the scanner to function more like a passive radar than an active, split ship detection from all other forms if necessary. - add colour coding (IFF) to scanner and probe results. - Make jump bridges into harnessed wormholes (think stargates) with aperture control and 'free' access to anyone, even hostile. - Allow for a modicum of control over established, full-sized stargates such as temporary closure or aperture control for instance. - Etc.
Sidenote: As perfect an intel tool local is, it is easily equalled or surpassed by that of a covert cloak user. Why is it that a cloaked ship can use active scanners with impunity? Why can transmissions to/from probes not be traced back to the controlling ship? One might not be able to do much of anything while cloaked, but the power of intel and ready availability of 'da blob' they should be huntable (new probe set that amplifies emissions, scanning/probing leaves a 10-30s trail).
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Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Anomalous Existence Disavowed.
118
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:*bops Veshta with a Local window* The problem isn't jumpdrives or cynos, it's local! No amount of pontificating about "AFK cloakers" is going to do anything about Local being a source of easy intel about K-space systems. TheGunslinger42 wrote:...It ALL comes back to local. Do you girls honestly believe that removal of local is the end-all of solutions? Comparisons with worm space fail because 'normal' conditions are so different from K-space; probes are permanently in space, access can be controlled 99% and any potential threat can be neutralized using what amounts to generic fits. Security in worm space is a non-issue if you are sufficiently organized, the only threat comes from running into someone who has even better organization and/or will as the guys who went in and logged off until enough force was in system to do the job .. there is NO comparison to ordinary null space. Don't get me wrong, I too want local control to be in the hands of whomever controls a given space or in the very least to be a delayed sort of thing .. where we differ is that I do not buy into the idea that it is all-important, I see it as smaller, albeit integral, part of it. No one wants to have to spam scan and the potential benefits of K-space will never be enough (it would break the game) to justify the kind of vigilance needed for survival in worms. So ... remove/delay local .. but do a number on local/access as a whole at the same time: - redo the scanner to function more like a passive radar than an active, split ship detection from all other forms if necessary. - add colour coding (IFF) to scanner and probe results. - Make jump bridges into harnessed wormholes (think stargates) with aperture control and 'free' access to anyone, even hostile. - Allow for a modicum of control over established, full-sized stargates such as temporary closure or aperture control for instance. - Etc. Sidenote: As perfect an intel tool local is, it is easily equalled or surpassed by that of a covert cloak user. Why is it that a cloaked ship can use active scanners with impunity? Why can transmissions to/from probes not be traced back to the controlling ship? One might not be able to do much of anything while cloaked, but the power of intel and ready availability of 'da blob' they should be huntable (new probe set that amplifies emissions, scanning/probing leaves a 10-30s trail).
Local doesn't need to be removed completely. It does need to be disentangled from the primary K-space intel system, though. I'd go with a recent speakers local in K-space + some other mechanic introduced to provide the intel functions that the local list performs now, but with more control/granularity based on system sec, sov upgrades, etal, reverting to the full "no local" experience in W-space of course.
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dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
322
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Posted - 2013.05.30 05:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:Can someone please explain to me how an AFK Cloaker *actually* affects you? I realise that you may not want to take the risk and perform activities in system when they are there, but surely you could move to a system nearby?
I'm still waiting... Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
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