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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
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CCP Falcon
2740
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello internet spaceships pilots,
Today we have a new blog for you from Team SuperFriends!
CCP SoniClover is here to tell you all about the new scanning and probing system that's coming with EVE Online: Odyssey.
You can read all about it in his new devblog here. CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á Live Events Organizer
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5219
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:You launch all probes in your launcher at once, regardless of how many you currently have loaded. You can have a maximum of 8 probes in space at the same time. All players can use 8 probes now by default as the Astrometrics skill no longer limits the number. This is a bad mechanic.
Quote:There are two pre-set formations coming in Odyssey for players to use GÇô Spread (probes aligned to cover a large area) and Pinpoint (probes aligned to focus on one point). These are not intended to be the absolute best possible formations, but rather a solid starting point for budding explorers. This is a good mechanic.
Quote:The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined. This is a bad mechanic.
Quote:The default method for moving probes is a single handle for all probes you have out. Holding Shift will give you an individual handle for each probe, same as the current default. Holding Alt allows you to move your probes closer together. Probes will also resize together by default, holding Shift allows for individual resizing. Note that this is the opposite of the previous system. Resizing probes keeps them centered. WeGÇÖve also made the celestial brackets be less in the way when moving/resizing probes. These mechanics are fine.
Quote:The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space! I was ready to say this was a bad mechanic, but with the caveat that the previous position and formation is restored on deployment this mechanic is fine.
And removing DSP and any indication of signal strength on the scan overlay and in the window is an absolutely awful, awful mechanic that requires much better justification than what we were given. Justification (and mention) strangely absent in your devblog. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
957
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nice, but is there any chance of slipping in the ability to "tag" signatures with our own text? Using the default codes is a pain and it would be really nice to be able to right click -> rename to say "Taken site" or "Wormhole to ABC".
Could still show the native IDs along side it. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5219
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
And I'll just quote this here:
Domanique Altares wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:CCP Soundwaves' response was along the lines of, "we probably broke some playstyle that you were used to but we don't care."
This seems to have been the Dev attitude from the get-go with these changes. There was apparently little to no actual player input solicited before CCP hurriedly moved forward with what they thought was best for the playerbase, and when the feedback threads didn't go their way, they started enacting bug fixes and requested changes with the digital equivalent of a middle finger in the air. You want to be able to save formations? Sure. Have two that we chose for you, since we didn't ask what any of you were using beforehand, and you can't actually save your own. Want to use 8 probes? Sure. Now you can launch all 8 at one time instead of all 7. Want to launch only one probe for some reason? Sure. Just load only one probe in the launcher, and you can launch just one. Want to use less than our proscribed number of probes? Sure, just launch them all and recall/offline the ones you don't need. Want to deliberately leave your probes behind for some reason? No. That's just silly. And think of the children. Every single change to probing thus far stinks of being a rush job. CCP had stuff on the whiteboard, and made it go as quickly and with as little effort as possible. Perhaps if they had spent the time between Retribution and now actually working with the playerbase on the probing systems, instead of eyecandy windshield wipers and mobile phone minigames, we would have the widely featured, robust scanning system that could have been possible. We might have had a system that makes it easier for those that are new or casual, yet had the ability to unlock advanced functionality for others who want to be able to do things beyond the simple, without stepping on the toes of either group. Having a sandbox with multiple choices doesn't mean that everything has to be difficult. It means that if you're ready for the training wheels to come off, you shouldn't find that they're welded to the bicycle. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Monistat Seven
BlackRoseMafia
2
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
I look forward to these changes. |
Vakasho Umi Kenshar
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Quote:The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space! I was ready to say this was a bad mechanic, but with the caveat that the previous position and formation is restored on deployment this mechanic is fine.
Nah, this is a bad mechanic. It will impact the probe market for no needed reason. The warning message when leaving probes out was already there for wormholes to remind people of their probes.
I don't see the point at all. This will not help new players in any way, unless the same mechanic is applied to everything we deploy. CCP, I want my drones automatically recalled when I jump or dock, thank you very much for implementing this ASAP. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3472
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vakasho Umi Kenshar wrote:CCP, I want my drones automatically recalled when I jump or dock, thank you very much for implementing this ASAP.
I want my drones automatically recalled when I warp, use an acceleration gate, or when they get shot at.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
67
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote: Deep Space Probes (DSP) are being removed. With the overall changes to scanning (not just probe scanning, but also the addition of the Sensor Overlay), players are getting a fairly good overview of non-ship objects in a system. Combat probes exist to track down ships and are intended to become the new main avenue of scanning down ships. The other changes and additions coming in Odyssey speed up scanning down ships and removing the DSP counters this a bit. This means that on the whole, scanning down ships is going to take approximately the same as before, but with greater variations depending on circumstances. Existing DSPs will be changed into their corresponding combat versions.
please consider expanding the range of combat probes to at least 128 to compensate for the removal of dsp... |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
881
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined
This is okay for signature scanning but extremely bad for combat scanning (in fleet fights) We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Banner was used for this Post |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1899
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Faction POS structure BPCs will drop... does that include towers? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Castor II
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
77
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
"Scorpion Ishukone"
WHAT? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5222
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Quote:The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined This is okay for signature scanning but extremely bad for combat scanning (in fleet fights) Yes. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Zorok
The Guardian Knights
4
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.
So basically what you are saying is that mining Ore sites in any place other than high-sec is going to become a lot more dangerous since covert ops ships can warp right in without the need of using probes to find you? You had shown concern for the DSP probes causing the system to be overpowered but what are you going to do for the exploration miners to give them some kind of chance or was that the entire point of making the Ore sites easy to find without the use of probes? |
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CCP Paradox
863
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Faction POS structure BPCs will drop... does that include towers?
Yes, the towers are included. CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5101
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined.
Why? Why don't the probes just appear in the solarsystem map where your ship is located in the predifined formation? If I deploy probes in a hurry, I expect them to be ready to probe the place I just dropped them. Does this change mean, that they will stop doing that and will instead fly off to probe some CCP predetermined location, because that would suck. |
Seth Asthereun
Oscura Simmetria Yulai Federation
16
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zorok wrote:Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them. So basically what you are saying is that mining Ore sites in any place other than high-sec is going to become a lot more dangerous since covert ops ships can warp right in without the need of using probes to find you? You had shown concern for the DSP probes causing the system to be overpowered but what are you going to do for the exploration miners to give them some kind of chance or was that the entire point of making the Ore sites easy to find without the use of probes?
Better buff high sec |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5222
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Does this change mean, that they will stop doing that and will instead fly off to probe some CCP predetermined location, because that would suck. Yes. They fly off to the sun. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Syrias Bizniz
Carnivore Company
157
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
I would really like to see the 'auto-recall' a feature that the player can toggle by himself and being set to recall by default. There's a lot of possible applications in leaving behind your probes in a solar system.
Also, i'm slightly sad about the skill changes applied towards Astrometrics and the specialisations. If you are currently a dedicated prober, you make a huge investment in time to get Rangefinding to V - after all, it's a Rank 8 skill that provides a significant bonus. After the change, it will still be a rank 8 skill that however is by far less important to max out, especially with new scan-strength modules. I'm not asking for a reimbursement of SP here, however, maybe you should consider the 'nerf' of this skill and reevaluate. A solution to this might be, for example, tweaking down the efficiency of the modules that grant scan strength, and have rangefindiung to provide a 7.5% bonus for example, so that the skill-time investment allows you to reach equivalent scanstrength with less mods. Or whatever you feel like. But investing (and have invested) ~1.7m skillpoints (what is this? 40 days?) for such a small bonus that can be circumvent with new fitting possibilities just doesn't feel right.
Also, with the ability to launch several probes at once, it would also be very enjoyable to remove the reload-time of the module completely, just like lasers have none.
Rest looks fine to me |
Graygor
1kB Realty 1kB Galactic
35632
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Faction POS structure BPCs will drop... does that include towers? Yes, the towers are included.
My babies... have them! "I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." --áKenneth O'Hara
"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commisar Kate |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3473
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Deep Space Probes were very useful for filtering out signatures that we weren't interested in paying further attention to. Most of the functionality of DSP is now lost: the system scanner display only shows the presence of "stuff", the signal strength having been removed from that display. The DSP was previously useful for saving time, and was in itself a decent reason to train Astrometrics 5 (the other very good reason being that more probes in space means better quality probing, faster pinpointing, and bragging rights).
The automatic recall of probes means that there is less chance of people being stranded in unknown space and having to find their way out by contacting locals, asking for help on the forums, or suiciding their way home. You are actively removing consequences. Sure, you have lots of new players complaining that the consequences are too severe: this is a reflection on their unreadiness to face loss, rather than loss in the game being a bad thing.
So with each little hand-holding exercise you undertake, you are going to remove the opportunities that players have to learn about loss and failure, meaning that their first PvP loss is going to be all the more traumatic.
EVE needs the little niggles to help people cope and learn to stand on their own two feet: everything from leaving that distribution mission cargo 6 jumps away, losing probes when jumping through wormholes, through to forgetting to insure their combat ship before heading out to look for a fight.
If filtering out signals using a DSP wasn't an intended mechanic, a better solution would be to randomise the signal strength of the signatures present in space, and to review the signal strengths of signatures that explorers have tabulated over the years. If you notice that there are only 12 categories of signature, perhaps that's an indication that you need to smear the possible signature strengths over a larger potential signal strength range.
Deep Space Probes were also useful for quickly narrowing down groups of signatures in very large systems (anything larger than 30AU radius). This functionality is partially replaced by the system scanner overview, so I'll hold my judgement.
Ultimately though, I feel your attempts to "simplify" content and make it "more accessible" are going to end up dumbing the game down, removing the consequences of failure, and turning EVE Online into "WoW in space."
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2966
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
There's so much **** in these changes that the few good usability improvements don't even feel nice.
Disappointing tbh.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Syrias Bizniz
Carnivore Company
158
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Castor II wrote:"Scorpion Ishukone" WHAT?
It's linkable for ages now because officially someone ****** up at copying some things to somewhere else, it's unobtainable and probably only here to blow the minds of all those not-knowing. |
Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
130
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
The faction probe market is going to take a pretty big hit. The only time people are going to lose probes is when they get blown up, rather than due to being forgetful or ignoring popups.
Also agree with what was said regards leaving probes out being a tactical decision in some cases (e.g. where there might have only been a small window of opportunity to launch them without being noticed) |
Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
130
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Castor II wrote:"Scorpion Ishukone" WHAT? It's linkable for ages now because officially someone ****** up at copying some things to somewhere else, it's unobtainable and probably only here to blow the minds of all those not-knowing. It's a reward for participants in the FanFest PvP tournament. And some RP guy who I forget the name of who already has one. |
Zorok
The Guardian Knights
4
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Roime wrote:There's so much **** in these changes that the few good usability improvements don't even feel nice.
Disappointing tbh.
I hear ya man.... This is the first time I have considered truly giving up Eve...The monocle-gate scandal is nothing compared to their haphazard approach to these game-breaking changes they are making. I don't understand why they are trying to ruin certain aspects of the game...I agree that they should remove the regular asteroid belts and make them anomalies since that will take a bite out of botters but for them to simply make grav sites also anomalies makes no sense. I'm very disappointed with you CCP. |
Cetrata
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:I would really like to see the 'auto-recall' a feature that the player can toggle by himself and being set to recall by default. There's a lot of possible applications in leaving behind your probes in a solar system.
Also, i'm slightly sad about the skill changes applied towards Astrometrics and the specialisations. If you are currently a dedicated prober, you make a huge investment in time to get Rangefinding to V - after all, it's a Rank 8 skill that provides a significant bonus. After the change, it will still be a rank 8 skill that however is by far less important to max out, especially with new scan-strength modules. I'm not asking for a reimbursement of SP here, however, maybe you should consider the 'nerf' of this skill and reevaluate. A solution to this might be, for example, tweaking down the efficiency of the modules that grant scan strength, and have rangefindiung to provide a 7.5% bonus for example, so that the skill-time investment allows you to reach equivalent scanstrength with less mods. Or whatever you feel like. But investing (and have invested) ~1.7m skillpoints (what is this? 40 days?) for such a small bonus that can be circumvent with new fitting possibilities just doesn't feel right.
Getting the additional probe skills to 5 allows you to use the T2 variants of the mid slot scan modules. The modules have twice the bonus of T1. |
Seth Asthereun
Oscura Simmetria Yulai Federation
16
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Zorok wrote:Roime wrote:There's so much **** in these changes that the few good usability improvements don't even feel nice.
Disappointing tbh.
I hear ya man.... This is the first time I have considered truly giving up Eve...The monocle-gate scandal is nothing compared to their haphazard approach to these game-breaking changes they are making. I don't understand why they are trying to ruin certain aspects of the game...I agree that they should remove the regular asteroid belts and make them anomalies since that will take a bite out of botters but for them to simply make grav sites also anomalies makes no sense. I'm very disappointed with you CCP. i think because most of them are no longer players |
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
194
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Quote:WeGÇÖve removed Salvaging as a thing of its own in exploration sites. No salvaging sites will be distributed post-Odyssey and there are no special salvaging containers. What about the Talocan ships in certain WH sites?
And I am no fan of the instant recall of probes as it sometimes is used as a tactic to leave some combat probes behind as deterrent in 'our' WH system when scouting in another. Upon return the get reconnected again etc. Please leave that option open to us. Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
208
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Another change is that Astrometrics is now a starting skill for new players, same as Mining for instance. Will this skill be added (with sp) for existing players who have not trained Astrometrics at Odyssey's launch on the 4th? |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1230
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Posted - 2013.05.28 16:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Exploration expansion \o/ |
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