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Pirate Powers
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.05.28 18:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
could all these T2 BPO's be hitting the market because of the new invention items making T2 BPO's less useful / worthless?
http://neural-boost.com/odyssey
section 5.1
Optimized Occult Attainment (NEW): Probability +90% / Max. Run +2 / ME +1 / PE -1 Optimized Occult Augmentation (NEW): Probability -10% / Max. Run +7 / ME +2
Optimized Esoteric Attainment (NEW): Probability +90% / Max. Run +2 / ME +1 / PE -1 Optimized Esoteric Augmentation (NEW): Probability -10% / Max. Run +7 / ME +2
Optimized Incognito Attainment (NEW): Probability +90% / Max. Run +2 / ME +1 / PE -1 Optimized Incognito Augmentation (NEW): Probability -10% / Max. Run +7 / ME +2
Optimized Cryptic Attainment (NEW): Probability +90% / Max. Run +2 / ME +1 / PE -1 Optimized Cryptic Augmentation (NEW): Probability -10% / Max. Run +7 / ME +2
Im not adept in inventing so cant judge the impact of these new decryptors, anyone want to shed some light? |
Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
195
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Posted - 2013.05.28 18:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
It depends how often they drop.
At the moment, it seems the "Optimized" will be fairly low drop rate, which would make them pricey, so it doesnt seem that they would be used all the time for invention |
Styth spiting
Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate
315
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Unless some of the decryptors drop down to below 5M isk each they will continue to not be used in non-ship related invention. Anything more then that and they will not be cost effective in non-ship invention meaning any owner of T2 BPO's that are not ships will not notice much if any loss. |
Pirate Powers
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
i hear you guys,,, but there must be a good reason some of the biggest names and collectors in eve are dropping their T2 BPO's
look at this guy: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=240171&find=unread
172 BPO's, trillions worth in an auction ending 2 days before Odyssey hits, ialso see Grendell and a few others dropping T2 BPO's.
i doubt they would be doing this if there wasn't something big coming
call it a hunch
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Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
195
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Grendell has been scaling back his eve time, his investments etc,
The guy with the list of BPOs has done that before in the past, with few of them actually getting sold. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
629
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
You should understand a few things, first of all T2 BPO holders know the market intimately, 2nd of all, they know all of the tricks to being a successful trader, when to sell high and when to buy low, when flooding accrues, that's a tip-off. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
649
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Posted - 2013.05.28 21:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
If a T2 BPO holder is looking to make isk manufacturing off it is not the best way. Collector hang onto them, and occasionally use them. But most T2 BPO's can be sold for far more than several years worth of profit manufacturing from them.
I have seen even the cheapest T2 BPO's sell for several billion isk. If you could sell a T2 BPO for 3 Billion isk, and it would take you 3-4 years manufacturing from it to make that same 3 billion isk profit, why not just sell it and get those 3-4 years worth of profit right now.
Of course there are players that use them, that would rather build the T2 items and be known as the place to go for that item. But nobody keeps them for the profits that can be made from them. As I said before, for most T2 BPO's it would take years for the profits to catch up to what they can be sold for. |
Koj 'Jok
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.05.29 03:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Of course it's not as though the BPO loses it's value after you buy it (although that value can change with game changes). You are making profit off what you buy while holding onto a valuable asset. Manufacture as much as you want then see if you can sell the BPO for a profit.
Seems to me that T2 BPOs have a large inflation factor, since the longer Eve is around the more cash is out there, and the more people are willing to spend to be an owner of such a rare item. Unless of course CCP buffs invention a bunch or messes with them in some other way. |
Black Madness
Natural Born Builders
5
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Posted - 2013.05.29 06:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
In Eve there has always been an elite of players able to:
1. read market movements before than others 2. access important information before than others
Imho.
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Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
218
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Posted - 2013.05.29 07:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Invention has been nerfed in odyssey, and thus T2 BPOs have got an indirect buff. The margins will be better when producing off BPOs. Just this perception is likely to increase the demand of T2 BPOs. To note: the value of T2 BPOs is not dependent on the production profits.
The new items mentioned in the OP will not effect T2 BPOs in any way. BPOs for these items will never exist. Happiness is a warm gun, mama. |
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Transport Sheep
CoonQuest No Safe Haven
4
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Posted - 2013.05.29 07:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Koj 'Jok wrote:Of course it's not as though the BPO loses it's value after you buy it (although that value can change with game changes). You are making profit off what you buy while holding onto a valuable asset. Manufacture as much as you want then see if you can sell the BPO for a profit.
Seems to me that T2 BPOs have a large inflation factor, since the longer Eve is around the more cash is out there, and the more people are willing to spend to be an owner of such a rare item. Unless of course CCP buffs invention a bunch or messes with them in some other way.
Indeed most of the BPO's do not lose their value. The question is not the value though its: Could I have used the isk invested in the T2 BPO for more profit than I am getting from the BPO.
The answer is almost always Yes! T2 BPO's are not the best investment. The oppertunity cost of buying a T2 BPO is pretty steep. To be clear though not everyone wants a T2 BPO to make isk. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
645
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Posted - 2013.05.29 22:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
... fears the shadow of the dreaded Nerfbat as it darkens the skies....
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Andres Talas
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
107
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Posted - 2013.05.30 00:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Styth spiting wrote:Unless some of the decryptors drop down to below 5M isk each they will continue to not be used in non-ship related invention. Anything more then that and they will not be cost effective in non-ship invention meaning any owner of T2 BPO's that are not ships will not notice much if any loss.
I suspect we will see a lot of people doing exploring - they'll see the site as they fly around in space and go 'oooh'.
It wouldnt amaze me if the decryptors fell lower than that. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
149
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Posted - 2013.05.30 00:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
T2 BPOs prices have been crazy since forever, so if the changes in profit is the argument the owners should have sold ages ago..
I think most T2 BPOs already had ROI of more than 10 years..
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Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists Intergalactic Conservation Movement
19
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Posted - 2013.05.30 03:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
The payback period for most T2 BPOs have reached very high levels.
It would be advantageous to sell T2 BPOs at current prices as the capital gained can be deployed elsewhere for a greater return compared to holding/using them.
The probability that the payback period will continue to increase would be less likely than a mechanic change that will lower profitability of T2 BPOs in the next decade.
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Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
11
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Posted - 2013.05.30 12:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pirate Powers wrote:i hear you guys,,, but there must be a good reason some of the biggest names and collectors in eve are dropping their T2 BPO's look at this guy: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=240171&find=unread172 BPO's, trillions worth in an auction ending 2 days before Odyssey hits, ialso see Grendell and a few others dropping T2 BPO's. i doubt they would be doing this if there wasn't something big coming call it a hunch
Well imo, it's just the owner who likes to brag with that kind of stuff... not many are for sale for real, I would not even care about making an offer ----á-á Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005-á --- --- -á-á-á-á-á-á BUT NOT ATM :)-á-á-á --- |
0Lona 0ltor
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
44
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Posted - 2013.05.30 12:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Black Madness wrote:In Eve there has always been an elite of players able to:
1. read market movements before than others 2. access important information before than others
Imho.
Let me fix this for you...
In Eve there has always been an elite of players able to:
1. read market movements before than others via unfair connections with CCP Devs & GM's 2. access important information before than others via unfair connections with CCP Devs & GM's 3. Get reinbursements on losses more than others via unfair connections with CCP Devs & GM's 4. Get given preuimn content such as T2BPO's via unfair connections with CCP Devs & GM's |
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
11
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Posted - 2013.05.30 12:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Pirate Powers wrote:could all these T2 BPO's be hitting the market because of the new invention items making T2 BPO's less useful / worthless? http://neural-boost.com/odysseysection 5.1 Optimized Occult Attainment (NEW): Probability +90% / Max. Run +2 / ME +1 / PE -1 Optimized Occult Augmentation (NEW): Probability -10% / Max. Run +7 / ME +2 Optimized Esoteric Attainment (NEW): Probability +90% / Max. Run +2 / ME +1 / PE -1 Optimized Esoteric Augmentation (NEW): Probability -10% / Max. Run +7 / ME +2 Optimized Incognito Attainment (NEW): Probability +90% / Max. Run +2 / ME +1 / PE -1 Optimized Incognito Augmentation (NEW): Probability -10% / Max. Run +7 / ME +2 Optimized Cryptic Attainment (NEW): Probability +90% / Max. Run +2 / ME +1 / PE -1 Optimized Cryptic Augmentation (NEW): Probability -10% / Max. Run +7 / ME +2 Im not adept in inventing so cant judge the impact of these new decryptors, anyone want to shed some light?
Speaking about ship invention (my part), these new decryptors are not so great : Final ME levels are ME-3 (probability 90%) and ME-2 (-10%).
I attained best results (read profit) in ship invention using ME-1 and ME-3 decryptors. (depends on the part of the "expansive components" such as microprocessors and capacitor units).
Maybe the prices of the actual ME-3 decryptors will be hurted by the new decryptors, but T2ship bpos, certainly not. (most of T2 cruiser bpos produce ships for a price cost under 90 Mil atm, most of time around 80 Mil)
----á-á Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005-á --- --- -á-á-á-á-á-á BUT NOT ATM :)-á-á-á --- |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
150
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Posted - 2013.05.30 19:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
0Lona 0ltor wrote:Black Madness wrote:In Eve there has always been an elite of players able to:
1. read market movements before than others 2. access important information before than others
Imho.
Let me fix this for you... In Eve there has always been an elite of players able to: 1. read market movements before than others via unfair connections with CCP Devs & GM's 2. access important information before than others via unfair connections with CCP Devs & GM's 3. Get reinbursements on losses more than others via unfair connections with CCP Devs & GM's 4. Get given preuimn content such as T2BPO's via unfair connections with CCP Devs & GM's
You must mean the secret dev blog. The secret twitch streams, the closed gatherings, the magic of tweets and general eve-o forums, including the overpowered access to Chribbas exclusive eve-search?
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Andres Talas
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
107
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Posted - 2013.05.30 21:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
You must mean the secret dev blog. The secret twitch streams, the closed gatherings, the magic of tweets and general eve-o forums, including the overpowered access to Chribbas exclusive eve-search?
The Veldspar was a front. It all makes sense now - the veldspar was a front for large scale market manipulation, based on his secret access to *searchable* eve forums.
Incredible.
Is Chribba actually James315 ? |
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Vordek Rei
House of Praetor R O G U E
4
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Posted - 2013.05.30 21:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
I will tell you why we are selling our T2 BPO's. If you are clever you can figure it out here in my other post.
My post on R64 and market changes.
If you just want a quick answer then here it is.
More people are going to be manufacturing T2, control of T2 component market becomes very difficult. Lower profit on T2 production from increased competition. Slight chance of a rebound on the market, but the golden days of T2 BPO ISK printing is about to end. |
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
11
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Posted - 2013.05.31 08:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vordek Rei wrote:I will tell you why we are selling our T2 BPO's. If you are clever you can figure it out here in my other post. My post on R64 and market changes.If you just want a quick answer then here it is. More people are going to be manufacturing T2, control of T2 component market becomes very difficult. Lower profit on T2 production from increased competition. Slight chance of a rebound on the market, but the golden days of T2 BPO ISK printing is about to end.
Your analysis is speculation about investment in moon materials.
You extrapolate it to final T2 products.
This is the flaw of your analysis : T2 market is driven by demand, not by offer. Ship overhaul, new trends in pvp, change the demand for a particular ship.
In the end, T2 ship bpos will always be profitable as long as the ship they produce are useful. Whatever are the prices for moon materials and composites...
On a side note, T2 bpos are not isk printing machines : it's a lot of dedication to buy, haul, make components, assemble T1 and T2 ships, haul again then sell : For 25 T2 bpos (cruisers and industrial hulls), I use continuously 100 production slots 24/7, making a rough 45 Bil profit per month. And I produce a few hundreds more ships from invention, from cruiser hulls to jump freighters. Total isks involved in the processes (from buy orders to sell orders in instance) is around 350 Bil ----á-á Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005-á --- --- -á-á-á-á-á-á BUT NOT ATM :)-á-á-á --- |
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
279
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Posted - 2013.05.31 09:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Holding T2 BPOs has always seemed more like a curiosity to me than anything, despite how often people (notably non-T2 BPO holders) rate them as being ISK printers.
That said, I'm welcoming of more T2 BPOs becoming available for purchase.
Amassing a T2 BPO Library to me (if you're not intending to attempt to profit from manufacturing) seems to me like building a moat around your garden and buying a boat just to agitate the neighbors. Which truly to me, is the most noble and highest form of behavior. Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of-áK+îKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation. Quinzel's perspective has been shaped by her first-hand experiences with the State's varying corporate cultures.-á |
Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
231
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Posted - 2013.06.04 17:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Another 70something T2 BPOs on the market brings the total to about 250. Isn't this like 5% of the total T2 BPOs in the game?
I can understand the speculation about it becoming less profitable to produce off these BPOs, but is this explanation a cover up for something more sinister? Do the sellers have some information that we mortals don't? Happiness is a warm gun, mama. |
iskflakes
492
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Posted - 2013.06.04 18:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
...what do they know that we don't? - |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
693
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Posted - 2013.06.04 19:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm selling on behalf of a client who just needs a change from manufacturing. Hemmo is looking to downsize and have more time for other activities in EVE.
No secret agenda, just 2 sales that happen to occur roughly at the same time.
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Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
232
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Posted - 2013.06.04 21:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Thank you for the reassurance, Grendell. Think I had too much time to think during downtime and a T2 BPO nerf seemed imminent :)
I'm nearly certain that CCP won't mess directly with T2 BPOs, but looking at those 2 threads gave me that niggling feeling that one of the devs, towards the end of a pub crawl, may have let slip something about their long term plans for 'fixing' T2 BPOs.
Also: these 2 auctions, and the upcoming auctions have killed the market for many smaller fish. I have a cruise missile BPO that may have sold nicely at this time, but little chance now :) Happiness is a warm gun, mama. |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
694
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Posted - 2013.06.04 22:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Samroski wrote:Thank you for the reassurance, Grendell. Think I had too much time to think during downtime and a T2 BPO nerf seemed imminent :)
I'm nearly certain that CCP won't mess directly with T2 BPOs, but looking at those 2 threads gave me that niggling feeling that one of the devs, towards the end of a pub crawl, may have let slip something about their long term plans for 'fixing' T2 BPOs.
Also: these 2 auctions, and the upcoming auctions have killed the market for many smaller fish. I have a cruise missile BPO that may have sold nicely at this time, but little chance now :)
Yeah flooding that many bpos on the market at once is certainly not the best move. But perhaps he will take my approach and divide it into smaller batches.
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
179
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Posted - 2013.06.04 22:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Samroski wrote:Invention has been nerfed in odyssey, and thus T2 BPOs have got an indirect buff. The margins will be better when producing off BPOs. Just this perception is likely to increase the demand of T2 BPOs. To note: the value of T2 BPOs is not dependent on the production profits.
The new items mentioned in the OP will not effect T2 BPOs in any way. BPOs for these items will never exist.
How has invention been nerfed? |
Nerdy McButtHurt Trald
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2013.06.05 02:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
T2 BPO's have cache, but no where near the actual value they used to have.
If you were to purchase a ship BPO "NOW", it would take at least 5 years of 24/7 production to get your money back at current rates. Some are even worse in return time.
Now with the anticipated changes to invention the profit will undoubtedly go down, so the time to get your money back is even longer.
Do you want to buy something that you won't get your money back until 2020 or 2025? Will you even be playing? |
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