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Haulin Gneiss
sweet riders
65
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Posted - 2013.05.29 05:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Any observations here? |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
92
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Posted - 2013.05.29 05:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
What is the alternate system that you propose to replace this integral part of the game?
And yes, stargates are very closely related to how your ship is handled on the server, which is the reason for the short loading time between each system jump. |
GreenSeed
342
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Posted - 2013.05.29 05:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
gates are there because in the old days they wanted people to "meet". not having gates would require changing the way we look for each other. some sort of radar, like the old dscan but with a real functionality. and also a change in the way we travel.
think of games like SoaSE, that gravity well system can easily give eve another 10 years. or something more freeform like giving every ship a miniature JumpDrive and using stars as static Cynos. we could go jumping from star to star, so long as the destination star is within range.
anyway, regardless of how it happens, i think its already agreed among players that eventually we would like to see them gone, same with highsec, at least in its current form.
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Ranek Tes
Tigers in the Snow Nyratic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.29 06:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
If it aint boken, don't fix it!? |
Gillia Winddancer
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
366
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Posted - 2013.05.29 06:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gates ain't broken but they sure as hell are extremely limiting. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Initiative
3714
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Posted - 2013.05.29 06:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't see how gravity wells would encourage PVP in the same way that gates do.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Lord Haur
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
97
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Posted - 2013.05.29 06:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:anyway, regardless of how it happens, i think its already agreed among players that eventually we would like to see them gone
[citation needed] |
GreenSeed
342
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Posted - 2013.05.29 06:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lord Haur wrote:GreenSeed wrote:anyway, regardless of how it happens, i think its already agreed among players that eventually we would like to see them gone
[ citation needed]
FYC |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
177
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Posted - 2013.05.29 07:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:Lord Haur wrote:GreenSeed wrote:anyway, regardless of how it happens, i think its already agreed among players that eventually we would like to see them gone
[ citation needed] FYC
Why would we need to get rid of gate camps? They're a perfectly legitimate way to protect your interests. Whether you consider keeping the dirty, dirty Hi Sec Hippies in their place, the non-elite non-null unwashed masses out of your territory, protecting your home Jspace from invaders, or are just bored/drunk/high and want to do something late night that doesn't require much effort (and can't be arsed to mine).
They're a pain when you get blown up, sure. but if you get blown up by a gate camp, you obviously didn't scout your way ahead using cloaky/frig. Or the campers have interceptors (or equivalent) dragging drones in which case good on them. |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
797
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Posted - 2013.05.29 07:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:Lord Haur wrote:GreenSeed wrote:anyway, regardless of how it happens, i think its already agreed among players that eventually we would like to see them gone
[ citation needed] FYC
Follow by your logic one could assume players already agreed they would like to see stations gone due to a number of whining about undock camps and station games. Oh and fleets too due to whining about OGBs. And tackle. And bumping. And guns. And market. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
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Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
177
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Posted - 2013.05.29 07:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:GreenSeed wrote:Lord Haur wrote:GreenSeed wrote:anyway, regardless of how it happens, i think its already agreed among players that eventually we would like to see them gone
[ citation needed] FYC Follow by your logic one could assume players already agreed they would like to see stations gone due to a number of whining about undock camps and station games. Oh and fleets too due to whining about OGBs. And tackle. And bumping. And guns. And market.
And mining. NOBODY likes mining. let's get rid of it.
Oh, and people hate getting blown up. let's get rid of that too. |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
797
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Posted - 2013.05.29 07:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:GreenSeed wrote:Lord Haur wrote:GreenSeed wrote:anyway, regardless of how it happens, i think its already agreed among players that eventually we would like to see them gone
[ citation needed] FYC Follow by your logic one could assume players already agreed they would like to see stations gone due to a number of whining about undock camps and station games. Oh and fleets too due to whining about OGBs. And tackle. And bumping. And guns. And market. And mining. NOBODY likes mining. let's get rid of it. Oh, and people hate getting blown up. let's get rid of that too.
Eve. Nobody likes it, all you can see is compaining. Let's remove that and be finally happy. And free. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
115
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Posted - 2013.05.29 09:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
well to get an idea why gates are needed . undock from your station . align to the nearest gate
engage micro warp drive .
you can let my grand kids know when you get to that gate .
As it stands eves construct is quite self explanatory for gates existing . they make travel between the stars possible.
if you want to travel to a system with out a gate you need some special equipment and logistics to do it .
either way moving between stars is not a simple matter of commanding the order engage, or JUMP!!, or attempting ludicrous speed.
in eve space is big just like real life . and trying to get any where with out the proper logistics will just end up being a very long trip which you may never see the end of.
in some ways its annoying but in others i think its one of the things that really seems to make eve real .
if you dont like it maybe propose an idea for some spice to be added to planetary interaction and then maybe you could fold space all the while mutating into a huge space worm . :) |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
696
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Posted - 2013.05.29 09:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Eve. Nobody likes it, all you can see is compaining. Let's remove that and be finally happy. And free. Amen
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Morrow Disca
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
45
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Posted - 2013.05.29 09:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gates are Eve's PVP arena's. https://twitter.com/SniggWaffe |
Doddy
Dark-Rising
846
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Posted - 2013.05.29 09:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Back when eve was a space combat game rather than a space farming game gates were implemented to have players meet. Without gates there would be no combat except bobbing over structures. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
545
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Posted - 2013.05.29 12:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think gates, gate camps, and the options for getting through them are one of the most balanced and interesting mechanics in Eve right now. Why would you want to get rid of them? What is gaming when compared to rl? -á http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=V7-1ndsiVNA&feature=endscreen |
Adunh Slavy
878
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gates exist to create artificial choke points, to force people into the same area. If gates were removed, then some other sort of mechanic would need to exist.
The link below is a bit dated but provides one possible approach on how to do this.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/AdunhSlavy/RSIV611.htm
In Short, change perfect knowledge to imperfect knowledge at the cost of time. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
545
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
I wouldn't mind seeing a few more options for both the campers and the runners; "nets" that could slow a cloaked ship from getting into warp, and maybe some more functionality with the MJD for running gate camps. But scrapping the whole system just isn't going to happen I think, too much of Eve is balanced specifically around gate combat.
As it stands now I can make it through 99% of empire camps and 60% of null camps. If I could adjust that I would make it 95% of low camps, and 80% of null. But really if lowsec campers were better at game mechanics it would be 95%, and if I was better then I could make it through 80% of null camps. So the game itself is pretty spot on imho.
The OP didn't say why it would be a good idea to remove gates and I haven't ever really seen a good argument for it. What is gaming when compared to rl? -á http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=V7-1ndsiVNA&feature=endscreen |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
534
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
The fact that server or rather system architecture is designed around a server, node and grid model is of course the most obvious answer.
From a game design side the gates and the entire gate network is an obvious basis for both tactical and strategic game play.
No serious decision should ever be taken in Eve without consulting and pondering over the starmap (or more likely dotlan or Ombey's).
And besides, we already have ways to bypass the gates by using cynos and jump drives/portals.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
477
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Removing gates will never happen because the mechanics and game play around them are too well established.
A more realistic idea would be to have Jump drive modules for sub-caps that consume fuel, giving you the freedom to jump between systems within a set range. The drawbacks will have to the requirement of cyno's (so campers know you're incoming and can warp to you) or make it so the Jump Drive can only jump to Stargate signatures (so you may be jumping into a camp).
Suggesting alternative idea's without risk or drawbacks is completely unbalanced. Herping your derp since 19Potato --á[Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1503
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
Gates are fine. It's by gameplay design and a server one. CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it.
Idea for Improving NPE. |
Mhax Arthie
86
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote:GreenSeed wrote:Lord Haur wrote:GreenSeed wrote:anyway, regardless of how it happens, i think its already agreed among players that eventually we would like to see them gone
[ citation needed] FYC Why would we need to get rid of gate camps? They're a perfectly legitimate way to protect your interests. Whether you consider keeping the dirty, dirty Hi Sec Hippies in their place, the non-elite non-null unwashed masses out of your territory, protecting your home Jspace from invaders, or are just bored/drunk/high and want to do something late night that doesn't require much effort (and can't be arsed to mine). They're a pain when you get blown up, sure. but if you get blown up by a gate camp, you obviously didn't scout your way ahead using cloaky/frig. Or the campers have interceptors (or equivalent) dragging drones in which case good on them. Actually the gates should be player built. To enter you need to hack it, blow it up or much better.. send in a gift, like a space troian horse. |
Adunh Slavy
878
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'll give you a few, some more serious than others ...
It's space! Gates make Eve feel small, confined and arena like. Space should feel huge, expansive, limitless.
Gates are too predictable and repetitive. Not only are they just simply repetitive from a day to day travel perspective, but they create repetitive PVP situations.
They encourage blobbing. Eve already has reasons to blob, the blockade unit, the TCU, the POS, the Outpost/Station and now Dust orbital support.
It's space, it should be freaking huge with very few places to hide other than in the vastness of it and maneuver to flanks. Space combat will have more in common with desert combat than what Eve expresses. Fast moving, hard hitting small groups of skirmishes and pickets leading up to the large siege. Not a barbarians at the castle gate, over and over and over again. |
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
192
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
I just got back last night and got to see some new changes. The jumppoints in space are a nice touch, it really helps put the perceived distance you must travel on your journey in perspective.
I understand the technical reasons they exist, and I understand the game mechanic reasons for their existence, though I don't necessarily agree with them. In a Utopian space based mmo I would prefer pvp be fought over resource points and structures than through choke points, but the structure of this game isnt exactly conducive to such an endeavor.
I wonder how many of you have read the Alliance/Union universe novels by C.J. Cherryh? I thin I'd like to see a game that employs that sort of travel. Briefly,the ftl travel poses a problem for mmo's because of timescales involved but the gist is ships use a stars mass to pull them from jumpspace, but it's not an exact science so the exact point of entry isn't known, but anyone tracking a ship from a previous star would know what general vector the ship would be coming in on and for a brief time neither side would be aware of the others presence. I think that would make for awesome cat and mouse games, especially for freighters. |
Haulin Gneiss
sweet riders
65
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Posted - 2013.05.29 14:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thanks to everyone for your insightful comments. I guess I feel that eve is a very flat and linear game with respect to how you travel. The gate concept just seems too simple/easy given that they were here before humanoids arrived on scene.
There should be a mechanic where a player can warp/jump within a given distance to other stars and face certain penalties for the convenience. Perhaps a "cool down" period on the ship where you cannot warp/cloak after a long system to system jump or a time penalty where the trip is not instantaneous but takes say 5 minutes. |
Haulie Berry
804
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Posted - 2013.05.29 14:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:Lord Haur wrote:GreenSeed wrote:anyway, regardless of how it happens, i think its already agreed among players that eventually we would like to see them gone
[ citation needed] FYC
So, search results for the term "gatecamp", sans any context whatsoever, is indicative of a desire to remove gates?
******* airtight syllogism, there. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
545
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Posted - 2013.05.29 15:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Haulin Gneiss wrote:Thanks to everyone for your insightful comments. I guess I feel that eve is a very flat and linear game with respect to how you travel. The gate concept just seems too simple/easy given that they were here before humanoids arrived on scene.
There should be a mechanic where a player can warp/jump within a given distance to other stars and face certain penalties for the convenience. Perhaps a "cool down" period on the ship where you cannot warp/cloak after a long system to system jump or a time penalty where the trip is not instantaneous but takes say 5 minutes.
So its a storyline issue for you? Not to minimize that in any way, story and coherency are a very important part of Eve, I'm just trying to understand why you don't like gate travel. The OP seemed to just assume that people don't like it and would like a change if something "better" was available.
For myself that is not the case. I think the gates themselves speak of long lost mysteries, and the mechanic is a good conflict driver. I can't imagine another form of interstellar travel filling both those capacities as well.
What is gaming when compared to rl? -á http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=V7-1ndsiVNA&feature=endscreen |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
437
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Posted - 2013.05.29 15:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote: anyway, regardless of how it happens, i think its already agreed among players that eventually we would like to see them gone, same with highsec, at least in its current form.
Ah, so you are the majority of players? Otherwise this sentence would look really weird.
_______________________________________ Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
4139
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
So, all of this because one of OPs toons died to a gate camp.
When youre the gatecamper: gates working as intended. When youre the victim: gates are horribly broken, remove all the gates because (reasons/tears) and replace with (bad idea/no idea). Everyone else: Who cares. Why fix what aint broken. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
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