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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14396
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Posted - 2013.05.29 19:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
When it becomes possible (depending on third-party middleware) and meaningful (depending on OS spread) and/or useful (depending on benefits vs. costs) to do so.
I.e. probably not in a while. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14396
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Posted - 2013.05.29 20:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:It is possible. Is it? Could you please list the full set of middleware EVE is using and show that they have fully functional 64bit versions, since that's what's made it impossible so far.
Quote:it is a minority of players that is holding advancement back. The developers themselves have said repeatedly. [citation needed]
Quote:We could have tessellation, DX11 and our systems utilize the memory we have Tesselation and DX11 are not contingent on 64-bit, and there's no need for more memory.
Barakach wrote:1) Certain algorithms are much faster when using 64bit registers 2) 64bit mode has many more general purpose registers 3) 64bit mode has a few more SIMD registers 4) 64bit mode removes some legacy cruft and adds some extra niceties for the compiler GǪand EVE would benefit from that? Those are just generalities. What would be the benefit for EVE? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14398
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Posted - 2013.05.29 20:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:In case you haven't seen what EVE Online looks like with DX11 and tessellation(not to mention better in game physics) here is a link to the demo that CCP did in 2012 at Fanfest. EVE Online Demo 2012 Video GǪand that has nothing to do with going 64-bit. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14398
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Posted - 2013.05.29 20:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98 No.
Quote:(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever. Ah. Making things up rather than actually addressing the points. Good tactic.
Quote:The game would run better - end of story. GǪor it might not run at all because there would be missing components. And no, that's not the end of the story. Simply going 64 bit doesn't automatically make a program run better, and any potential gain that could be had needs to be weighed against the costs of gaining it.
I can only conclude that you are wilfully ignoring those costs, which, combined with your inability to list any reason to pay those costs that doesn't build on some kind of fallacy, means your entire argument has no basis.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14398
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Posted - 2013.05.29 20:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Nope...just stating a fact. You haven't stated a single fact in this entire thread.
So, let's go back to that basic question and see if you can do it at least once: what benefit do you see from changing EVE from 32 to 64 bit?
Quote:Go read Tippia's post history. It speaks volumes on where Tippia stands when it comes to CCP making the game better. Prove it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14398
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Posted - 2013.05.29 20:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:So you're going to continue to use that lame argument that there is no benefit and EVE would not run better with 64bit client? I have to start before I can continue. What benefit do you see from changing EVE from 32 to 64 bit?
Quote:Just being able to utilize more memory would benefit the game. No, it wouldn't. The game uses less than 1GB RAM and doesn't need, nor would it use the added memory a 64-bit-licensed Windows machine opens up.
Quote:You cannot use more than 2GB with a 32bit system. Yes you can.
Quote:If EVE could make use of more memory it would definitely see a marked improvement in how it runs. EVE already can make use of more memory, but it doesn't. So what makes you believe that there would be any kind of improvement? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14398
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Posted - 2013.05.29 20:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:CCP Explorer has all ready said that EVE would run so much better if they could make us of multi-core and multi-thread programming that a 64bit client would allow for, and the greater memory access - and 32bit doesn't. Again, [citation needed] and no, none of those require a 64-bit client. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14398
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Posted - 2013.05.29 21:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Here is your citation. GǪand no link. Goodie. AnywayGǪCCP Explorer wrote:That has nothing to do with 32 bit vs. 64 bit GǪthere you go. As expected. He also doesn't make any of the other claims you proposed. Also as expected. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14398
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Posted - 2013.05.29 21:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:No need to provide a link... GǪaside from context, verification, further explanations. You know, the things that give a greater meaning to his saying the exact opposite of what you're claiming.
Quote:His saying that 32bit vs 64bit was regarding something else in the conversation that I took his quote from. So it doesn't actually prove your claims in any way then. So that's not the citation asked for. Goodie. Can you provide one that does?
Quote:"When people figure out that a 64 bit client will load a grid or change session faster than the people waiting for them in the bubble camp, you won't need an x32 client any more." This is what he was commenting on. GǪand answered that GÇ£That has nothing to do with 32 bit vs. 64 bitGÇ¥. So there you go GÇö still not making any of the claims you proposed.
Quote:Oh and Windows 98 and XP cannot access more than 3.5 GB - no matter what you do - can't be done. Those are licensing restrictions, not something that depends on 32 vs 64 bit.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14399
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Posted - 2013.05.29 21:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Those are his words - take it or leave it. Oh, I'll take them alright, since they show that you were talking out of your lower back and not just making up things I've said, but have moved on to inventing things that the devs have supposedly said (when in reality, they said quite the opposite).
Quote:So CCP Explorers own words are not good enough. They're good enough. They just don't support the claim you're making and since you said that he had said something, I would expect a citation that actually said what you claimed. Instead, you provided one that did the exact opposite.
Quote:Like I said, your reading comprehension is very inadequate. It's working just fine. In the context of what you've quoted, he only says one thing: that 32 vs 64 bit doesn't matter. You're trying to present that as it saying that the client would be able to do all kinds of fancy things if it were 64 bit. That does not follow from his statement.
Quote:Statement still holds true. Sure, it's just not particularly relevant as Explorer's quote shows. And no, it's not false. There are plenty of 32-bit Windows SKUs that can access more than 3.5GB RAM GÇö it's all a matter of which version and license you choose. Hell, if you pick the wrong one, you get less than that as your maximum. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14399
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Posted - 2013.05.29 22:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:I have answered her. You just didn't want to accept my answer - just like her. Yes, you answered me (it's GÇ£himGÇ¥, btw). That answer was a quote from a dev that said it doesn't make any real difference.
The problem is that we expected your answer to be something other than GÇ£nothingGÇ¥.
Of course, if you do think it'll provide some kind of benefit, we can dig that question out again since in that case, you haven't answered itGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14427
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Posted - 2013.05.30 18:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Let me put it this way, other MMO's, ones older than EVE Online offer 64bit versions of the game. That means people that cannot run 64bit can still run 32bit, but those with the ability to run the 64bit can. Look at WoW as an example. Back when the first introduced 64bit I and many millions of other players saw a huge jump in game performance by moving to 64bit client. That is all I am asking for here. You're asking for something you have no way of knowing if it will happen.
Quote:Is the ability to fully utilize what my machine is capable of doing. Why is that needed?
Quote:Right, my comp is a POS and in shambles and can barely run - dude - you are the one now that is looking like a tool. BTW - my system can easily run 4 instances of EVE with not so much as a hiccup. In other words, it would not benefit from 64 bit GÇö it already runs perfectly. So what benefit are you hoping to see?
Quote:Then they could release a DX11, tessellation and better physics to those of us that can make use of it. None of that means there's any need for 64 bit.
Quote:Thank you Ager for making it more clear as to how a 64bit game client can improve EVE. GǪi.e. not much. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14428
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Posted - 2013.05.30 20:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:Thank you Ager for making it more clear as to how a 64bit game client can improve EVE. GǪi.e. not much. this, what I said, is that there are other more effective ways to enhance the game than to going 64 bits in the meantime. Mostly multithreading is the safest one, since it does NOT limit who can use the game, it works on a single core pc as well as on a 64 core PC (based on how many threads they make, the more the merrier.) Yeah. Of the two things you actually listed, pre-caching would be the far more interesting idea, but it's not even tied to 64-bit GÇö it's just that such a mechanism could conceivably push the memory footprint to the point where you'd regularly need the larger address space, and yet not just be a case of bloat. But even then, that would entail a pretty significant rewrite of both the client and the server, and in a dynamic universe such as this one, the question is how much it would actually end up improving things.
In a sense, it could be the client-side version of their brain-in-a-box initiative: side-load and pre-calculate some taxing bit of data and shove it into place when needed. But unlike the boxed brain, it's not a near-static thing, which rather limits the usefulness. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14460
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 18:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Adela Talvanen wrote:Given the fact that Microsoft is dropping support for XP in April next year, that may shrink the XP user pool down to the point that CCP may well be thinking about changing to 64 bit code, and multi threaded processors, and maybe calculating how much a new shard, or Tranquility 2 will cost, as the current Tranquility server is just like any other piece of electronic equipment, in that it has a sell and dispose of date as more advanced electronics with better capabilities are manufactured. GǪexcept that just because they're dropping XP doesn't meant they're they're dropping 32-bit. The XP-holdover issue is a completely different matter that mainly holds back DX11. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14984
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 13:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:There's nothing to admit right or wrong, since I simply wrote a few sentences. GǪwhich suggested that running 3 clients was in any way relevant to the 32 vs 64bit client discussion. This suggestion is incorrect.
Also, my first computer was a PDP-11. Now shush. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14984
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 13:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:I hate to tell you but faster running algorithms, would improve the large scale fleet encounters, and a lot of other items that are math heavy, so ANY thing that can be done should be. GǪwhich, again, is just generalities. The question is how EVE, specifically, would benefit.
Does EVE use these GÇ£certain algorithmsGÇ¥? Does EVE need more general-purpose registers? Does EVE need more SIMD registers? Does EVE suffer from the legacy cruft or benefit from compiler niceties?
GǪand (also again) that's before we even begin to discuss the costs, such as potential loss of middleware components, loss of subscribers (or increased dev load from duplicating their efforts across two clients), increased memory footprints, etc. 64-bit may be the best thing since sliced bread, but that doesn't matter if EVE happens to be on a yoghurt-only diet and would turn inside-out and explode if you fed it some fibre. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14990
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Posted - 2013.06.19 15:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Also WoW has 64bits. When will we finally close the bit-gap? What is CCP's agenda here? Let's see here: -+ 3DO GÇö 32bit, released 1993. Units sold: 2M. -+ Atari Jaguar GÇö 64bit, released 1993. Units sold: <250k. -+ Sony Playstation GÇö 32bit, released 1994. Units sold: 102M(!!) -+ Sega Saturn GÇö 2+ù32bit, released 1994. Units sold: 9.5M. -+ Nintendo 64 GÇö 64bit, released 1996. Units sold: 33M.
GÇ£Closing the bit gapGÇ¥ is for suckers and PR reps.
Ace Uoweme wrote:Even Blizzard told players they'll stop supporting the oldest of old videocards and OSes. So, much like CCP, then. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15026
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Posted - 2013.06.20 00:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Does this mean why might see new shinies? Custom corp decals for ships and maybe paint schemes, too? No, it means they can't really test anything older than that right now because :effort: New shinies will happen regardless.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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