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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Khira Kitamatsu
530
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Posted - 2013.05.29 21:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:No need to provide a link... GǪaside from context, verification, further explanations. You know, the things that give a greater meaning to his saying the exact opposite of what you're claiming. Those are his words - take it or leave it. Quote:His saying that 32bit vs 64bit was regarding something else in the conversation that I took his quote from. So it doesn't actually prove your claims in any way then. So that's not the citation asked for. Goodie. Can you provide one that does? So CCP Explorers own words are not good enough. Sucks to be you.Quote:"When people figure out that a 64 bit client will load a grid or change session faster than the people waiting for them in the bubble camp, you won't need an x32 client any more." This is what he was commenting on. GǪand answered that GÇ£That has nothing to do with 32 bit vs. 64 bitGÇ¥. So there you go GÇö still not making any of the claims you proposed. Like I said, your reading comprehension is very inadequate.Quote:Oh and Windows 98 and XP cannot access more than 3.5 GB - no matter what you do - can't be done. Those are licensing restrictions, not something that depends on 32 vs 64 bit. Statement still holds true. You like to use that argument despite that fact that it is false. Keep trying though. Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
GreenSeed
346
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Posted - 2013.05.29 21:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
honestly a lot of people in this thread have no damn clue how PCs work.
" i have 16gb, i want eve to use all 16 gb, because.... because..... hurrrrrrrrrrrr"
srsly, any change on the capabilities of the engine needs to come with a reason.... the engine can display thousands of ships in space already, something necessary due to the scale of SOV warfare these days... yet the servers and the netcode cant handle it.
how does changing the game to 64 bits in any way change that?
why would you spend the limited resources we have on it, when those limited resources are better spent on updating the netcode, server infrastructure or some other change in the game, like updating the internal workings of poses and capitals, something which CCP keeps quoting as the reason the cant really do a POS iteration.
and the OP is either a troll or a 14 year old Wow refugee. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14399
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Posted - 2013.05.29 21:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Those are his words - take it or leave it. Oh, I'll take them alright, since they show that you were talking out of your lower back and not just making up things I've said, but have moved on to inventing things that the devs have supposedly said (when in reality, they said quite the opposite).
Quote:So CCP Explorers own words are not good enough. They're good enough. They just don't support the claim you're making and since you said that he had said something, I would expect a citation that actually said what you claimed. Instead, you provided one that did the exact opposite.
Quote:Like I said, your reading comprehension is very inadequate. It's working just fine. In the context of what you've quoted, he only says one thing: that 32 vs 64 bit doesn't matter. You're trying to present that as it saying that the client would be able to do all kinds of fancy things if it were 64 bit. That does not follow from his statement.
Quote:Statement still holds true. Sure, it's just not particularly relevant as Explorer's quote shows. And no, it's not false. There are plenty of 32-bit Windows SKUs that can access more than 3.5GB RAM GÇö it's all a matter of which version and license you choose. Hell, if you pick the wrong one, you get less than that as your maximum. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1042
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Posted - 2013.05.29 21:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:All that being said (64 bit argument aside) I personally would like to see DX11 and Tessellation utilized in EvE... which will require the user base to upgrade from XP or older.
This. |
BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
230
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Posted - 2013.05.29 21:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever. The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact.
All this and you still havent answered her question - Other than what you have read on Gizomodo about 64bit making "everything better," HOW will it specifically make EVE any better?
Since you use a 64bit machine, please elaborate... Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Khira Kitamatsu
530
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Posted - 2013.05.29 22:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever. The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact. All this and you still havent answered her question - Other than what you have read on Gizomodo about 64bit making "everything better," HOW will it specifically make EVE any better? Since you use a 64bit machine, please elaborate...
I have answered her. You just didn't want to accept my answer - just like her. Oh wait...maybe this is one of her alts. LOL!
Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14399
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Posted - 2013.05.29 22:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:I have answered her. You just didn't want to accept my answer - just like her. Yes, you answered me (it's GÇ£himGÇ¥, btw). That answer was a quote from a dev that said it doesn't make any real difference.
The problem is that we expected your answer to be something other than GÇ£nothingGÇ¥.
Of course, if you do think it'll provide some kind of benefit, we can dig that question out again since in that case, you haven't answered itGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Velarra
226
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Posted - 2013.05.29 22:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
A 64bit client would be nice for use with Commodore Amiga's running a 64bit 603 CPU card in conjunction with VM software for a wintel 64bit Eve client. |
Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
252
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Posted - 2013.05.30 00:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
In the spirit of eve, the weak shall fall behind! Go forth and release a 64-bit client I say! But really, WinXP was great, but it's 11 years old. Quit clinging to that old system and get Windows 7 or 8. Windows 8 isn't even bad, its only real problem for a normal user, is the metro ui which can be disabled with 3rd party software. |
Tiven loves Tansien
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
814
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Posted - 2013.05.30 01:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
How many other mmorp games have working x64 clients?
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact.
You are a baboon. THAT is a fact. |
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Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
84
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Posted - 2013.05.30 01:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever. The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact. I really can't afford to upgrade from Windows for Workgroups 3.11...
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Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
194
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Posted - 2013.05.30 01:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
Oh, this is fun, Tippia spearing some newbie forum warrier. |
Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
478
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Posted - 2013.05.30 01:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Do another boot.ini that targets old computers Herping your derp since 19Potato --á[Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts |
Wyrm Drake
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2013.05.30 02:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
Wow. Ok
First off. 32 or 64bit has nothing to do with the number of cores you can use. If a program is written to use multi-threading, then it can regardless if it's 32 or 64. Otherwise, it uses one core and Windows controls it's usage of what core.
My Working set of memory for Eve now is 1.3GB and it has peaked at 1.7GBs, which means it has maxed out it's VAS usage (Windows assigns 2GB of isolated memory to a program when it starts called the VAS, you're usually using all of it at about 1.7GBs cause of overhead). So, to some extent, Eve could make use of more memory. But, if it would be worth it is another question. If a lot of the data Eve will be holding in memory now takes 64bits to represent, even if that data can be represented with 32bits, that data still uses 64bits which means a lot of wasted space eating up memory. With many programs, that can be a drawback to the system overall. Now, CCP could go over the code to reduce the wasted space but, most of the time, there is not a lot of benefit for a game to do this.. yet
Most of the 64bit data in Eve is graphic data which is handled by the GPU that already runs at more than 64bits.
DX11 and tessellation have nothing to do with 32 or 64bit. It only has to do with what versions of Windows CCP decides to support and then writing the code to make use of them
This is a very simplified explanation, but should be sufficient
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Vexidious
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.05.30 02:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
Wyrm Drake wrote:Wow. Ok
First off. 32 or 64bit has nothing to do with the number of cores you can use. If a program is written to use multi-threading, then it can regardless if it's 32 or 64. Otherwise, it uses one core and Windows controls it's usage of what core.
My Working set of memory for Eve now is 1.3GB and it has peaked at 1.7GBs, which means it has maxed out it's VAS usage (Windows assigns 2GB of isolated memory to a program when it starts called the VAS, you're usually using all of it at about 1.7GBs cause of overhead). So, to some extent, Eve could make use of more memory. But, if it would be worth it is another question. If a lot of the data Eve will be holding in memory now takes 64bits to represent, even if that data can be represented with 32bits, that data still uses 64bits which means a lot of wasted space eating up memory. With many programs, that can be a drawback to the system overall. Now, CCP could go over the code to reduce the wasted space but, most of the time, there is not a lot of benefit for a game to do this.. yet
Most of the 64bit data in Eve is graphic data which is handled by the GPU that already runs at more than 64bits.
DX11 and tessellation have nothing to do with 32 or 64bit. It only has to do with what versions of Windows CCP decides to support and then writing the code to make use of them
This is a very simplified explanation, but should be sufficient
Pretty much this. Just recompiling the existing code as 64 bit will have exactly zero benefit, and could conceivably make things worse. Unless CCP intends to optimize the code for 64 bit there is absolutely no point. And even if they were to go to that trouble, it is highly questionable what there is to gain by doing so. Yes, the client could access more RAM, but it doesn't currently have any memory issues. Yes, it may be able to execute slightly faster, but probably not enough for anyone to notice the difference.
What would happen, though, is that people running 32 bit operating systems (a not insignificant number of people, I might add) would need to make some system upgrades in order to play the game. Some will; some will not. CCP will undoubtedly lose some customers in the process. On balance, it doesn't seem worth the trouble. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1395
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Posted - 2013.05.30 02:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote: Here is your citation.
#67 Posted: 2012.06.26 20:26 | Report
PinkKnife wrote: Would it make a large difference? Is it worth doing? Hard to implement?
CCP Explorer wrote: That has nothing to do with 32 bit vs. 64 bit but has everything to do with single core vs. multi core.
Now I will admit that I generally find Tippia grating and hard to debate with. But definitely in this case she has a point, as the quote you cite literally shows the opposite of what you are claming (made it bold for you even).
Why would you pull out a quote that literally says that, when you are trying to claim the opposite? |
Cyrina Manto
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2013.05.30 02:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Wyrm Drake hit the nail on the head.
If you recompile a 32bit program as 64 bit it gets the following...
1. Increased memory usage as the base data structure is larger. 1.7gb of memory usage becomes 2.4-2.5 for the exact same data in memory.
2. Access to more memory.
The only reason to have a 64bit client would be if CCP released the textures used for the EvE CGI sequences, because the memory needed for texture cache would increase exponentially.
As to multicore and EvE...
EvE is not cpu bound that I can see. I get triple digit framerates on an 8 core workstation with a cpu speed of only 2ghz. |
Sobach
Fourth Circle
181
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Posted - 2013.05.30 03:16:00 -
[48] - Quote
So basically this thread is about how the OP have no idea what he is talking about? gotcha. |
Zak Breen
Aliastra Gallente Federation
52
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Posted - 2013.05.30 03:37:00 -
[49] - Quote
Solution:
EVE needs to be rewritten entirely in assembly. OPTIMIZATION! Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of not knowing. http://www.di.fm/spacemusic |
Aragoni
Aliastra Gallente Federation
65
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Posted - 2013.05.30 07:28:00 -
[50] - Quote
I don't want to be rude or anything but how many of you actually know what you're talking about?
Maybe we can get a CCP-response on if (and if, how so) EVE actually would benefit from going to x64? No need to answer the question about when (once again: If) it arrives. |
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dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
323
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Posted - 2013.05.30 07:33:00 -
[51] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact.
Couldn't care less about 98, but XP has a 64 bit version, and it runs perfectly well with modern tech thank you very much. Personally I use 7 now, but with Eve the way it runs there really isn't a major *need* to go to 64 bit.
Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
Herr Esiq
Dirt Nap Squad
50
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Posted - 2013.05.30 07:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
Correct me if im wrong, but since my computer has 16gb of memory its more of a frustration then a benefit that EVE 'only' uses 1gb while it could have used 14 more gb to preload every texture availeble into memory and save a bit on loading.
Having your memory unused isnt really a benefit. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1463
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Posted - 2013.05.30 07:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
Herr Esiq wrote:Correct me if im wrong, but since my computer has 16gb of memory its more of a frustration then a benefit that EVE 'only' uses 1gb while it could have used 14 more gb to preload every texture availeble into memory and save a bit on loading.
Having your memory unused isnt really a benefit.
Thing is, you see that 16GB? It'll be being used as disk cache. So the textures will be in memory, after the first use.
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Herr Esiq
Dirt Nap Squad
50
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Posted - 2013.05.30 08:01:00 -
[54] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Thing is, you see that 16GB? It'll be being used as disk cache. So the textures will be in memory, after the first use.
In that case, i said nothing.. |
Throktar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
18
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Posted - 2013.05.30 08:24:00 -
[55] - Quote
What I heard in the rumor mill (just made up in my head) is that CCP is going to release a graphics update with direct x 16, so we just need to be patient :) |
RaTTuS
BIG Insidious Empire
260
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Posted - 2013.05.30 08:25:00 -
[56] - Quote
64Bit native makes things get bigger code wise dx11 does not need 64bit there are 32bit win7 options and they are very useful for some systems 32bti is fine for most things 64bit systems can have lots of memory so they can run more copies of eve better - http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png
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ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
141
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Posted - 2013.05.30 08:34:00 -
[57] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Is it really a minority of players that is holding back the advancement of EVE to a 64bit client? How many people still use Win 98 or XP to play EVE Online? We can't have nice things like tessellation, DX11, or utilize more memory until the minority hold-outs upgrade their gaming systems. My question is...when will CCP realize that the rest of the gaming world has moved onto 21st century tech and they are still working with tech from 2001 and their game engine needs a major upgrade? Will the game continue to be held back by the minority of players that are too cheap to upgrade? I'm not sure it is a minority of players who use 32bit OS' not everyone can afford to upgrade their Gaming hardware yearly like those of us in the 1st world with good jobs (or parents with good jobs.) Eve is played globally. Also some people need to run 32bit systems for other programs that are not 64bit compatible.
I am not saying it should not be worked on, but I do not believe it should be rushed. (also I doubt anyone is running Win98 to play Eve, but I may be mistaken) ISD Gallifreyan Leutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
152
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Posted - 2013.05.30 08:51:00 -
[58] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Yes, but they are optimized for 64bit and so are modern CPU's with multiple cores. CCP Explorer has all ready said that EVE would run so much better if they could make us of multi-core and multi-thread programming that a 64bit client would allow for, and the greater memory access - and 32bit doesn't.
This is why we can't have good things in EVE. :(
"optimised for 64 bit", no, they're 64 bit processors that run 32 bit processes just as well. Anyway CCP Explorer can already do all of that, except make his process gigantic. I don't see what his point is. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
152
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Posted - 2013.05.30 08:53:00 -
[59] - Quote
Zak Breen wrote:Solution: EVE needs to be rewritten entirely in assembly. OPTIMIZATION!
It is. The compiler writes the assembler, and optimises it in 99.999% of cases far more efficiently than any Human could. Exception is SIMD, where compilers still suck at optimising vector operations. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
152
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Posted - 2013.05.30 08:56:00 -
[60] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote: Here is your citation.
#67 Posted: 2012.06.26 20:26 | Report
PinkKnife wrote: Would it make a large difference? Is it worth doing? Hard to implement?
CCP Explorer wrote: That has nothing to do with 32 bit vs. 64 bit but has everything to do with single core vs. multi core. And also 1 GB of RAM vs. 8 GB, but 8 GB allows the operating system to cache much more aggressively. Also, I daresay that there are very different graphics cards in these two machines?
Incorrect context. He's saying it makes NO DIFFERENCE in this quote. Then he's saying client optimisation is more to do with multi-threading/multi-core. And even that is hard to do so it scales nicely. You have to show a lot of respect to the cache (like making sure your objects aren't all sat on the same cache line) in order to win with multiple threads. Coding for multi-core is hard.
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