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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1530
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Posted - 2013.06.18 15:08:00 -
[151] - Quote
Fiery Taint wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:Explorer I understand what you say, however my EVE client often crashes when it goes beyond the 2GB threshold, so it is being limited by a more legacy limit, care to give some insight about this? Maybe you have a dud ram stick? I had one before xmas that would intermittently crash at high ram usage/temperatures but was passing memtest86 tests I ran post-crash. That was until I let memtest run for a full day and lo and behold the ram faults became apparent.
Sounds like dodgy solder. Or a short caused by expansion due to heat.
Difficult to diagnose, without an extensive soak test.
Sucky. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Spurty
897
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Posted - 2013.06.18 18:13:00 -
[152] - Quote
8bits was enough for Jet Set Willy and Elite.
Professionally, I work with gigabyte(s) sized files and databases in machines that have bounds in the 128GB of RAM
Was good to read some of the comments here for a dose of reality :-/
--- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. **** |
Ager Agemo
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
331
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Posted - 2013.06.18 18:30:00 -
[153] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Fiery Taint wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:Explorer I understand what you say, however my EVE client often crashes when it goes beyond the 2GB threshold, so it is being limited by a more legacy limit, care to give some insight about this? Maybe you have a dud ram stick? I had one before xmas that would intermittently crash at high ram usage/temperatures but was passing memtest86 tests I ran post-crash. That was until I let memtest run for a full day and lo and behold the ram faults became apparent. Sounds like dodgy solder. Or a short caused by expansion due to heat. Difficult to diagnose, without an extensive soak test. Sucky. I though so but other 64 bit software I run on the computer dosnt have an issue, however I will try to find some blob fight to push the client and get some crash logs for this, anyone got the date of the battle of asakai? If the client stored those logs I could upload those. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1596
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Posted - 2013.06.18 18:36:00 -
[154] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:De'Veldrin wrote: Or they were happy they had an operating system that worked and did what they needed it to do without blowing up on them repeatedly.
Not everyone stays with an older machine due to lack of finances or a resistance to change. Some people just like **** that works when they need it to.
By now Windows XP is a horrible atrocity that should be put down to spare it further suffering. I can understand why someone would still use it, in favour of old (probably important) software that doesn't receive upgrades anymore or for lack of money or time or both. I can even understand plain old laziness. But the claim that Windows XP is still a good operating system is just plain ridiculous.
Good is a subjective measure.
If it does what they need and does it when they need it done, isn't that "good" enough? Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
269
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Posted - 2013.06.18 18:51:00 -
[155] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:We're not getting a 64 bit client until they get 64 bit servers...
EQ2 got them in 2009.
WoW got them around 2011.
EvE??? "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
125
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Posted - 2013.06.18 20:11:00 -
[156] - Quote
If I don't get a 64-bit client NOW, I'm quitting EVE forever.. taking my 34641067783 alts with me!! Lost money might force them to give me my 64-bit client!!!!!!!!
/end sarcasm
The people talking about "lack of understanding of technology" are correct. Others are merely cutting and pasting stuff from google searches. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1530
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Posted - 2013.06.18 20:22:00 -
[157] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:We're not getting a 64 bit client until they get 64 bit servers... EQ2 got them in 2009. WoW got them around 2011. EvE???
Eve's already running on 64 bit server processes. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Mordraug Stangaferro
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.06.18 22:07:00 -
[158] - Quote
How 'bout a Linux client?
*warps off to a safe distance* |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3550
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Posted - 2013.06.18 22:17:00 -
[159] - Quote
Klandi wrote:I personally think that the question should be - when will the client be able to used multi-cored processors efficiently. If that requires a 64bit re-write then that I'm all for. Wouldn't it be nice to specify the priority and spread of client accounts over several processors out of the launcher...
Is that even do-able?
The architecture (64bit vs 32bit) the client is written for has nothing to do with the ability to split the thread over multiple cores. Being able to split the load over multiple cores is only useful for certain applications.
As for multiple clients, your Operating System should shunt the processes around as needed to efficiently allocate processing resources. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Mordraug Stangaferro
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.06.18 22:24:00 -
[160] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Klandi wrote:I personally think that the question should be - when will the client be able to used multi-cored processors efficiently. If that requires a 64bit re-write then that I'm all for. Wouldn't it be nice to specify the priority and spread of client accounts over several processors out of the launcher...
Is that even do-able? The architecture (64bit vs 32bit) the client is written for has nothing to do with the ability to split the thread over multiple cores. Being able to split the load over multiple cores is only useful for certain applications. As for multiple clients, your Operating System should shunt the processes around as needed to efficiently allocate processing resources.
That, and there are ways and tools to assign cores to a process if you really need to crank up the performance to a near-obsessive level (nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong heh heh heh).
For most people, a good GPU should do the job regardless of whether you're on dual or 8-core system, assuming you got the 4GB RAM done and your disk in good condition (ie: not fragmented). Also, if you can have your game on a physical disk (not partition) other than the one holding your operating system performance gains a lot.
So in short, while I 'd love a 64-bit client, it's still not really *necessary*. Odds generally are that, if you know exactly why you'd like a 64-bit client, you should be able to figure out how to hand-tweak it and your PC to run that much smoother.
(Nah, ain't tweaked mine. Runs sweet on linux + crossover with a proper 8-core system.) |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1618
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Posted - 2013.06.18 23:27:00 -
[161] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:We're not getting a 64 bit client until they get 64 bit servers... EQ2 got them in 2009. WoW got them around 2011. EvE??? EVE's server has been 64-bit since September 2008. If I may refer you to my devblog at the time: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve64/
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3550
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Posted - 2013.06.18 23:41:00 -
[162] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:We're not getting a 64 bit client until they get 64 bit servers... EQ2 got them in 2009. WoW got them around 2011. EvE??? EVE's server has been 64-bit since September 2008. If I may refer you to my devblog at the time: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve64/
DevBlogged! This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
269
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Posted - 2013.06.19 03:45:00 -
[163] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:We're not getting a 64 bit client until they get 64 bit servers... EQ2 got them in 2009. WoW got them around 2011. EvE??? EVE's server has been 64-bit since September 2008. If I may refer you to my devblog at the time: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve64/
Meanwhile...running 3x WoW clients @ 64bit.
1+1=2
RubyPorto wrote:DevBlogged!
No...WoWed. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
235
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Posted - 2013.06.19 04:42:00 -
[164] - Quote
I run a windows 8 laptop with Mac OS X Mountain Lion in a Virtualbox install using Parallels to host a Windows 7 system. I run eve in the windows XP mode there. Because XP is just that awesome. And also because I wondered how it would run. To be honest, it doesn't suck as much as you might think. Aside from getting the keyboard, mouse and speakers to work through all those layers of virtualization. That can be kind of janky. To repeat, the skill split is scheduled for the big Summer 2013 expansion. ~CCP Fozzie |
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
135
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Posted - 2013.06.19 04:47:00 -
[165] - Quote
Tippia wrote: There are plenty of 32-bit Windows SKUs that can access more than 3.5GB RAM GÇö it's all a matter of which version and license you choose. Hell, if you pick the wrong one, you get less than that as your maximum.
Interesting that. I have 4 gb of ram and upgraded to win 7 to be able to use it all and my computer can still only use 3.25 gb of the 4. And that is Win 7 64 ultimate.
My issue isn't OS based. It is the motherboard. Kind of funny. http://us.msi.com/product/mb/K8N-Diamond-Plus.html
meh oh well, at least upgrading to win 7 got rid of that annoying virus win xp is prone to that plays sound like ads and such while nothing is open. Could never catch a process popping up to cause it. craziness. My paranoid brain thought maybe it was working as intended and its a new feature to drive people to win 7 cause Ms are sick of supporting win xp =).
Edit: Additionally it states in my computer properties that I have 4gb of ram but it tells me (3.25 usable) |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3550
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Posted - 2013.06.19 05:13:00 -
[166] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:We're not getting a 64 bit client until they get 64 bit servers... EQ2 got them in 2009. WoW got them around 2011. EvE??? EVE's server has been 64-bit since September 2008. If I may refer you to my devblog at the time: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve64/ Meanwhile...running 3x WoW clients @ 64bit. 1+1=2RubyPorto wrote:DevBlogged! No...WoWed.
You seem confused about the difference between a server and a client. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
156
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Posted - 2013.06.19 07:54:00 -
[167] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote: Good is a subjective measure. If it does what they need and does it when they need it done, isn't that "good" enough?
It's not.
Windows XP has, and most probably always will be heavily critcised for it's security flaws and susceptibility to malware for as long as it still exists. And that will even increase once the support runs out in April 2014.
Just because Windows XP maintains some basic compatibility to downright ancient hadware or software, which never received upgrades for any of the newer Operating systems, it won't be a good operating System.
It has been good, in the past.
But not anymore.
Or in other words, just because some other **** stinks more Your own **** won't be less stinky or ******. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
269
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Posted - 2013.06.19 08:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:You seem confused about the difference between a server and a client.
My first computer was a kit built Timex-Sinclair back in 1983.
Were you even born then to built one?
RubyPorto wrote:Also, a 64 bit client would do very little (if anything) for an EVE client, as it doesn't use anywhere near the 4GB limit of addressable space that a 32 bit program can use... which you'd know if you'd been paying attention to the thread.
When you running 3 clients.......................
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1621
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Posted - 2013.06.19 08:52:00 -
[169] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Also, a 64 bit client would do very little (if anything) for an EVE client, as it doesn't use anywhere near the 4GB limit of addressable space that a 32 bit program can use... which you'd know if you'd been paying attention to the thread. When you running 3 clients....................... If you run multiple clients then each has its own addressable memory space. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3550
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Posted - 2013.06.19 08:55:00 -
[170] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:RubyPorto wrote:You seem confused about the difference between a server and a client. My first computer was a kit built Timex-Sinclair back in 1983. Were you even born then to built one? RubyPorto wrote:Also, a 64 bit client would do very little (if anything) for an EVE client, as it doesn't use anywhere near the 4GB limit of addressable space that a 32 bit program can use... which you'd know if you'd been paying attention to the thread. When you running 3 clients.......................
When you're running 3 clients, you're running 3 separate processes and your 64 bit Operating system will take care of assigning appropriate memory space.
The fact that the Process is 32 bit limits that process and that process only to 4GB ram (it doesn't magically limit other processes of the same type). You can run 2^32 maxed out 32-bit processes without running out of addressable space on the OS.
Have you... learned anything about computers since building that Timex-Sinclair? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10200
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Posted - 2013.06.19 09:01:00 -
[171] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Also, a 64 bit client would do very little (if anything) for an EVE client, as it doesn't use anywhere near the 4GB limit of addressable space that a 32 bit program can use... which you'd know if you'd been paying attention to the thread. When you running 3 clients....................... If you run multiple clients then each has its own addressable memory space.
Well to be fair, it doesn't work like that on a Timex Sinclair.
1 Kings 12:11
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Jake Guido
C0VEN HOLDING COMPANY C0VEN
0
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Posted - 2013.06.19 10:28:00 -
[172] - Quote
Tuttomenui II wrote:Tippia wrote: There are plenty of 32-bit Windows SKUs that can access more than 3.5GB RAM GÇö it's all a matter of which version and license you choose. Hell, if you pick the wrong one, you get less than that as your maximum.
Interesting that. I have 4 gb of ram and upgraded to win 7 to be able to use it all and my computer can still only use 3.25 gb of the 4. And that is Win 7 64 ultimate. My issue isn't OS based. It is the motherboard. Kind of funny. http://us.msi.com/product/mb/K8N-Diamond-Plus.htmlmeh oh well, at least upgrading to win 7 got rid of that annoying virus win xp is prone to that plays sound like ads and such while nothing is open. Could never catch a process popping up to cause it. craziness. My paranoid brain thought maybe it was working as intended and its a new feature to drive people to win 7 cause Ms are sick of supporting win xp =). Edit: Additionally it states in my computer properties that I have 4gb of ram but it tells me (3.25 usable)
Just to clarify since no one responded.
Your PC is using 0.75 GB for GPU. You might be able to check this in your BIOS settings, probably set as automatic. Wouldn't recommend setting it lower though. |
Sinq Arnolles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.06.19 11:12:00 -
[173] - Quote
Maybe resource caching would benefit from 64 bit since you could then cache more stuff.. May as well use that 32GB of RAM for something...
But then again I haven't seen a difference in performance between resource caching on or off. Does it even work anymore? |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
270
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Posted - 2013.06.19 11:15:00 -
[174] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Also, a 64 bit client would do very little (if anything) for an EVE client, as it doesn't use anywhere near the 4GB limit of addressable space that a 32 bit program can use... which you'd know if you'd been paying attention to the thread. When you running 3 clients....................... If you run multiple clients then each has its own addressable memory space. Well to be fair, it doesn't work like that on a Timex Sinclair.
Oh, and don't forget picking up the dev's hat on the way out, CSM. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3551
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Posted - 2013.06.19 11:25:00 -
[175] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Malcanis wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Also, a 64 bit client would do very little (if anything) for an EVE client, as it doesn't use anywhere near the 4GB limit of addressable space that a 32 bit program can use... which you'd know if you'd been paying attention to the thread. When you running 3 clients....................... If you run multiple clients then each has its own addressable memory space. Well to be fair, it doesn't work like that on a Timex Sinclair. Oh, and don't forget picking up the dev's hat on the way out, CSM.
Yep, agreeing with a Dev on a matter of objective, easily referenced fact is clear evidence of toadyism. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Dream Boat
Continuum. Infinity Alliance
3
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Posted - 2013.06.19 11:32:00 -
[176] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:I'm coming late to this thread, but we have no plans for a 64-bit EVE Client. The EVE Universe Server is 64-bit because we need access to the extra memory but there is only need for a 64-bit EVE Client once we need more than 3 GB on Windows XP / Windows Vista 32 or 4 GB on Windows Vista/7/8 64. Otherwise refer to the replies from Tippia, they were all quite good. Explorer I understand what you say, however my EVE client often crashes when it goes beyond the 2GB threshold, so it is being limited by a more legacy limit, care to give some insight about this?
Some older Windows OS's only allow 2GB of ram to be allocated to a 32bit application, you can fix this by adding a /3G switch into the boot.ini. This should allow upto 3GB for an application. I'd suggest you look into this for your particular version of windows to see if this could help you. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10203
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Posted - 2013.06.19 11:45:00 -
[177] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Malcanis wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Also, a 64 bit client would do very little (if anything) for an EVE client, as it doesn't use anywhere near the 4GB limit of addressable space that a 32 bit program can use... which you'd know if you'd been paying attention to the thread. When you running 3 clients....................... If you run multiple clients then each has its own addressable memory space. Well to be fair, it doesn't work like that on a Timex Sinclair. Oh, and don't forget picking up the dev's hat on the way out, CSM.
You could have simply admitted you were in error, but nooooooo, now it's teh ebil CSM's fault you were wrong and also rude to the CSM dev who took the time to give you the correct information.
I love it when people double down on the dumb. Calling it now: you'll go for the triple.
1 Kings 12:11
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
270
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Posted - 2013.06.19 12:13:00 -
[178] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: You could have simply admitted you were in error
There's nothing to admit right or wrong, since I simply wrote a few sentences. Whatever you're feeding on, isn't anything I've written in itself.
Making anthills out of molehills, I guess that's a CSM's role, huh? "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14984
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Posted - 2013.06.19 13:25:00 -
[179] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:There's nothing to admit right or wrong, since I simply wrote a few sentences. GǪwhich suggested that running 3 clients was in any way relevant to the 32 vs 64bit client discussion. This suggestion is incorrect.
Also, my first computer was a PDP-11. Now shush. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Stonecrusher Mortlock
University of Caille Gallente Federation
157
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Posted - 2013.06.19 13:33:00 -
[180] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Barakach wrote:1) Certain algorithms are much faster when using 64bit registers 2) 64bit mode has many more general purpose registers 3) 64bit mode has a few more SIMD registers 4) 64bit mode removes some legacy cruft and adds some extra niceties for the compiler GǪand EVE would benefit from that? Those are just generalities. What would be the benefit for EVE?
I hate to tell you but faster running algorithms, would improve the large scale fleet encounters, and a lot of other items that are math heavy, so ANY thing that can be done should be.
and that is all the reason i need to support this. |
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