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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Sarela
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Posted - 2005.11.02 13:12:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
Originally by: "Tuxford" Drones take up a lot of resources so we would much rather see less drones but have them better instead.
I'd say that was fixing what is "broken" ...
See this is the kind of thing I was talking about. They have you convinced too. But if your going to reduce the drone bay space by 50% then why not make them 50% stronger? This is not the case.
You actualy view that as better? As fixing a problem?
If 6 drones can do 100 damage (hypothetical) and you reduce to 3 drones and make em 20% better, thats not a fix, thats a nerf. And to top it off you now are going to need to max lvl 5 a skill to unlock the skill that allows the 20% increase in the first place.
Meanwhile skill training time remains way too long and travel time is equaly insane. If anything needs a nerf its these things not drones, not guns, not missiles. they were working just fine before tinkering. |
BOldMan
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Posted - 2005.11.02 13:31:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Vito Parabellum Second officer: New contact! Bearing 125 by 49! Designated ***lord-Fiver! Captain: What type of ship is it? Second officer: It's like nothing I've ever seen before! Wait... Yes, its one of those new prototype Gallente carriers! Captain: Keep a close eye on it. Second officer: Oh my God! Its opening up! Its releasing... 5 frig sized drones! They are heading this way! Captain: Activate the thermal hardners immediately and start a new mining cycle.
... and send our 5 explosive drones to killpwnd the noob...
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Nerdin
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Posted - 2005.11.02 14:42:00 -
[333]
I find it very amusing that you decide to change the damage bonus on drones for all damage type but leave caldari kinetic missile bonus. If you change the drones then for god sake change the missiles as well! Good for my thron I guess but my poor caldari ships shall contiune to weep when looking at that ridiculous kinetic bonus.
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2005.11.02 15:06:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Greenwing Edited by: Greenwing on 02/11/2005 13:32:05
Originally by: Sarela
Originally by: Skogen Gump
Originally by: "Tuxford" Drones take up a lot of resources so we would much rather see less drones but have them better instead.
I'd say that was fixing what is "broken" ...
See this is the kind of thing I was talking about. They have you convinced too. But if your going to reduce the drone bay space by 50% then why not make them 50% stronger? This is not the case.
You actualy view that as better? As fixing a problem?
If 6 drones can do 100 damage (hypothetical) and you reduce to 3 drones and make em 20% better, thats not a fix, thats a nerf. And to top it off you now are going to need to max lvl 5 a skill to unlock the skill that allows the 20% increase in the first place.
From the devblog : Drone Interfacing skill changed 20% bonus to drone damage and 20% bonus to drone mining yield Sounds to me like you get a damage increase of 20% per lvl of drone interfacing. If you have this skill at 5 atm you can use 10 drones, in the future this will be 5 with 100% extra damage -> same damage as 10, doesn't look like a nerf to me
And your thoughts about skills. I'd be pretty mad if they would give new players the chance to get to the same lvl as me in a lot less time....... Same about travelling, i do agree insta's should be changed/removed, but decreasing travelling time is bad. It should not be possible to get to the other side of the map in a very short time.
Its A Huge nerf, never mind all the NEW skills poeple are going to need to rain, CCP ISreally starting to take the ****, with there out look on the direction for this game, all they want us to do is spend hours getting from one place to another, tring skills all the time, only to wip the rug out from under us, saying "well now you got them new skills, let make them crap so you have to learn a hole load of new skills."
welcome to "Nerf On line" the never ending storie, of skills.
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velox
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Posted - 2005.11.02 15:51:00 -
[335]
I think the changes suck, mainly because I have trained the skills to the max to enable me to use more drones.
Because I liked the squadron type combat but that it just not going to work with 5 drones.
And as far as pvp well that is gonna suck. It doesnt matter how much harder you make them or how fast they kill, its easier for a player to maintain targets on a maximum no of 5 incoming drones no matter how many waves a domi can empty.
It will also be easier to kill them because with fewer targets to worry about your opponent has more time to focus his drones onto one of yours. work the math out 1 dominix drone would be 3 times its current strength and your opponent has heavy drones at 2 times the current strength, its now easy for him to target one drone at a time and work down a short list.
The OMG look at all those frigging drones will vanish for ever.
Dev's does this mean you are going to be nerfing Carriers and the new 'Carrier Fighters' before they come out or is this something else that we will invest a stack of time into only for you to realise that a carrier with 10 fighter is lagggy.
velox (a depressed gallantean with 2 days left on drone interfacing 5 training) Always aiming one step beyond the edge. |
velox
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Posted - 2005.11.02 15:59:00 -
[336]
Something kinda of funny just popped into my tiny little brain.
Doing some simplistic math.
If the answer to current drone lag with current population is to halve it. Does this mean in 12 months time when eve population is doubled and drone numbers are back to todays level the nerf bat will come out again ?
I remember the old Intel CPU rule about every 12 months speeds would double. Is eve going to suffer the reverse where every time the population doubles playability and features halve
velox
Always aiming one step beyond the edge. |
Sarela
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Posted - 2005.11.02 16:40:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
Its A Huge nerf, never mind all the NEW skills poeple are going to need to rain, CCP ISreally starting to take the ****, with there out look on the direction for this game, all they want us to do is spend hours getting from one place to another, tring skills all the time, only to wip the rug out from under us, saying "well now you got them new skills, let make them crap so you have to learn a hole load of new skills."
welcome to "Nerf On line" the never ending storie, of skills.
Exactly... You hit it on the nose Sir.
We get the skills high enough were we can finaly do something with the equipment that requires them, only to have them skills nerfed and a new set introduced to semi compensate..
Enough with the nerfs already.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.11.02 17:04:00 -
[338]
I posted this in another thread, but a moderator closed it and asked to keep all drone discussion in this thread, so I will post it again:
In order to make drones easier to control and make them into a single unit most of the stats that were previously used on individual drones are no longer part of the actual drone, instead they are part of the squadron. What stats that squadron has is determined by the formation the player has chosen for it. Squadrons contain all the stats that determine the way the drones will shoot, move and so on. What type or types of damage the squadron deals is determined by the drones the player puts in it. The only other stat that remains on the drones themselves is their hit points.
The main difference between formation would be the speed and damage mod they add to the drones as well as their resistances to damage. So the speeds will fit the type of drone used in a squadron you can only use one type of drone with a certain formation.
Possible formations for squadrons would be:
Light Wedge
Speed: 4200 m/s Damage mod: 1.1 Shield: EM 0% EX 60% KI 40% TH 20% Armor EM 60% EX 0% KI 25% TH 45% Signature radius: 25m
Light Cluster
Speed: 3500 m/s Damage mod: 1.2 Shield: EM 10% EX 65% KI 50% TH 30% Armor EM 65% EX 10% KI 35% TH 55% Signature radius: 25m
Light Phalanx
Speed: 2800 m/s Damage mod: 1.6 Shield: EM 0% EX 60% KI 40% TH 20% Armor EM 60% EX 0% KI 25% TH 45% Signature radius: 25m
The other stats of light squadrons would be an average of what light drones are currently capable of.
Medium Wedge
Speed: 2100 m/s Damage mod: 1.1 Shield: EM 0% EX 60% KI 40% TH 20% Armor EM 60% EX 0% KI 25% TH 45% Signature radius: 50m
Medium Cluster
Speed: 1750 m/s Damage mod: 1.2 Shield: EM 10% EX 65% KI 50% TH 30% Armor EM 65% EX 10% KI 35% TH 55% Signature radius: 50m
Medium Phalanx
Speed: 1400 m/s Damage mod: 1.6 Shield: EM 0% EX 60% KI 40% TH 20% Armor EM 60% EX 0% KI 25% TH 45% Signature radius: 50m
The other stats of medium squadrons would be an average of what medium drones can currently do as wellą
Heavy Wedge
Speed: 1100 m/s Damage mod: 1.1 Shield: EM 0% EX 60% KI 40% TH 20% Armor EM 60% EX 0% KI 25% TH 45% Signature radius: 100m
Heavy Cluster
Speed: 900 m/s Damage mod: 1.2 Shield: EM 10% EX 65% KI 50% TH 30% Armor EM 65% EX 10% KI 35% TH 55% Signature radius: 100m
Heavy Phalanx
Speed: 700 m/s Damage mod: 1.6 Shield: EM 0% EX 60% KI 40% TH 20% Armor EM 60% EX 0% KI 25% TH 45% Signature radius: 100m
And here also the other stats would essentially be about what large drones do right nową
Now the drones themselves would be reduced in stats, to their damage (4 for light, 8 for mediums, 22 for heavies) and their hit points, which would be made the same for every drone, since they are now no longer required to be different, but much rather the formation they are in.
This means that from now on if you want to you can create a phalanx formation and fill it with explosive damage drones, which would then act like explosive ogres. You could also fill a wedge formation with ogres and have them act like Berserkers, depending on what you need.
In order to create a squadron you click a new squadron button in your drone control panel, then it will ask you what type of formation you want to use for that squadron. You enter the formation. Then a little box will appear where you can drag drones from your bay into the squadron (much like the current system) however, the squadron will only accept drones that are indicated by its formation. (You canĘt put heavy drones in a light squadron that moves at 4200m/s)
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.11.02 17:04:00 -
[339]
Also the drones will continue to show up in the general drone bay window, since they are not fused together in the squadron, but only an indicator of what drones you want the squadron to draft from your bay when you launch it. If the drones specified for launch arenĘt there anymore or your skills arenĘt high enough to launch them the squadron will launch as many as possible.
Once you have created a squadron it is saved on your computer, so you can create squadrons for all kinds of purposes and mix the different drones you have in them. (Like create one squadron with each formation for your drones)
When you launch a squadron it will try to draft as many of the drones that you have indicated in the box from your bay and use them to create the formation. All the damage the drones in the squadron do is added up, and used for the damage the squadron deals.
When the squadron gets targeted however, and a hit is scored (Against the signature radius of the squadron, which equals the radius of the current drones.) the damage is randomized and applied to the hit points of one of the drones within the squadron.
What about tech 2 drones, can there be tech 2 squadrons? No, but they will do more damage and have more hit points still, which means when used in a squadron they will still make it significantly stronger. With the new skills that will give drones boosts to speed and so on a highly trained drone user will still get superior speed on his squadrons, and benefit from tech 2 drones because of their increased damage potential and survivability.
What about the drones with new functions, like EW and Eneut drones? Those can be used in the squadrons as well, the squadrons will then just acquire that function from the drone and provide the stats to govern it.
What will a squadron look like? It will be represented by a big symbol on your screen, like the brackets around a ship, and be only one target. The drones that are used in the squadron will appear in a formation and move together. However, there may be a command to turn off the drones themselves being displayed.
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Paul Castrin
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Posted - 2005.11.02 17:10:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Royaldo This isnt what we need. This is another bad idea. Good thing though is... playerbase whine didnt force this change.
I hope this was sarcasim because it sure has heck is a response to playerbase whining.
Just look up any post by the PvP alliances that screamed about being lagged at a gate and accusing the other side of poping drones for just that purpose.
Player whining 4tl.
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Qin Yu
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Posted - 2005.11.02 18:39:00 -
[341]
Two things I've noticed
1 Kieron... Im sorry but your post and the dev blog was patronising and quite snidey against people who've brought complaints up about the new proposed Drone changes. Forgive the people who answer "OMG you suck!" But people in those very channels were offering constructive criticism which was ignored.
2 Despite the slight change in the new dev blog it still doesn't excuse for CCP's totally ignoring player opinion on this subject. A large portion of the active FORUM population tell you something's wrong why not address those issues and reach a compromise?
3 A suggestion. Ok, change all the bonuses as you guys want (not as if we can stop you anyway). Change the max number of drones in control at once BUT keep the damn drone bays the same size. It'll be FAR more tactically useful for a Drone ship pilot to mix and match waves of drones in which it could launch/dock and launch a different one..
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.11.02 19:06:00 -
[342]
Quite frankly, I'm disgusted that most people are just ticked off about the dronebays being reduced. That shows that the only thing about this change that they don't like is the fact that their firepower doesn't increase with it.
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Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2005.11.02 20:37:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Nerdin I find it very amusing that you decide to change the damage bonus on drones for all damage type but leave caldari kinetic missile bonus. If you change the drones then for god sake change the missiles as well! Good for my thron I guess but my poor caldari ships shall contiune to weep when looking at that ridiculous kinetic bonus.
NONONONOOOOO
Caldari and missles got nerfed, the limiting damage bonus was a result of this.
Gallente are NOT getting nerfed, the all damage types is a way to prevent them from getting the nerf...cause they lost 5 drones. Caldari didnt lose any launchers.
SO please, stfu.
Friends Forever |
Amitious Turkey
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Posted - 2005.11.02 22:31:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Xthril Ranger Edited by: Xthril Ranger on 31/10/2005 20:02:56 I would like to point out that since the drone carriers only get bonuses to damage and mining yield they will not be better than any normal ship at using EWAR drones , sentry drones and logistic drones.
I think it is a shame that the typical drone carriers will not get an advantage at using these drone types.
how about making the +1 drone bonus for the carriers so they can get up to max 10 drones?
since they are gonna be DRONE carriers anyway might as well give them 10 instead of 5 at once. and not everyone is going to have a carrier anyway, so it wont crash a node or something when you release them. (\_/) (O.o) (> <)[]==^= (urtok's bunny)
(\_/) (O.o) (> <)
The writer of the article did not quote himself - Cortes
What happened? When did it happen? Where? Who was involved? Why did |
Amitious Turkey
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Posted - 2005.11.02 23:18:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Fellhand Edited by: Fellhand on 01/11/2005 01:48:07 CCP, just for once, change the habit of a lifetime and listen to the players. Virtually everyone has told you that this is a stupid [expletive] idea and several have told you outright that it's a game breaker for them and they'll quit. Just drop it, drop the whole idea. It's pointless, insulting, lazy, unfair and destroys balence.
PLEASE LISTEN TO TEH PLAYERS. if you must do this then check out other peoples ideas and my above post (\_/) (O.o) (> <)[]==^= (urtok's bunny)
(\_/) (O.o) (> <)
The writer of the article did not quote himself - Cortes
What happened? When did it happen? Where? Who was involved? Why did |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.03 01:13:00 -
[346]
CCP are going to ram this through without to much worry about what the players think - i guess they just arent willing to cough up for extra server equipment or take the smarter move of moving agents - puttign a limit on drones in space before they vanish (2 or 7 days) remove advertising cans and sec cans that have been deployed for longer than 6 months
Ah well lets adapt
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.03 01:44:00 -
[347]
Okay. Agents? Not a factor in the 0.0 node drops. So can't be that.
And if you have a way of breaking the addressable memory limit, not only will CCP use it, but you'll be rich. Or you'll have to wait for the 64-bit servers like everyone else, which take TIME to test, evaluate and deploy.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Dak Hakin
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Posted - 2005.11.03 07:47:00 -
[348]
I really think the whole thing is kinda funny. Now, a whole new line of ships, carriers, will be useless. Stealth bombers. Carriers dont carry a lot of firepower on their own, so the 5 drones it hauls will make it a sitting duck. _______________________________________________
If you fear the thorn, do not crave the rose |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.11.03 08:25:00 -
[349]
No, because thei're indestructable superdrones that do more damage then your average cruiser... But yea, carriers with 5 drones is the lamest thing ever. I thought that even 15 or 35 was not a whole lot for a drone carrier, but 5...
Imagine how lame starwars episode 1 would have been if that droid ship would have launched 5 drones, not 500...
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Akiman
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Posted - 2005.11.03 18:59:00 -
[350]
hi; i dont like that thermal damage stuff and that not capable of using more drones...
things are mixing up
AND you are not being polite by doing these updates you are making my game fun ruined
P.S. : your return to drone bay command wont work quite well some in some stays :(
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Fellhand
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Posted - 2005.11.03 22:58:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Kurren I wonder if the Devs have even thought about doing things that don't involve nerfing/changing anything ship and fighting related...
Asteroid belts full of more secure cans than asteroids...
Advertising cans when you enter and leave a system or a station...
Reduce the amount of CONCORD ships in safe sectors but increase their over-all damage so they still pwn...
Limit the number of stations in a system and spread the agents out... there is that big thing called a universe you could use...
The Devs could be doing so much more to PLEASE the player-base... but p!$$ing them off seems to be easiest...
I know that most of us players aren't from Iceland, but please, for the love of God, don't hate us for it!!
No, they haven't thought about it at all. The devs on this game seem to have one and only one response to problems: Nerf the [expletive] out of everything. _______________________________________________ There is no such thing as too much cynicism
Flame me if you wish, I laugh with scorn at threats...
Beware of geeks bearing gifs
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Jahlina Kantar
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Posted - 2005.11.04 00:51:00 -
[352]
The new skill tree looks great. As an ex droner myself, I always wished for new abilities and skills to push them further. And now it looks like we'll get a range of new types too.
The amount limit is concerning. If each drone is going to be tougher, it will somewhat compensate.
I remember a while ago that nerfing dual mwd was strongly opposed, as with a lot of other good ideas which are now accepted and generally improve our gaming. Looking back, dual/triple MWD's were ridiculous and im so glad my 180,000ms crow was nerfed.
Perhaps in the future we'll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about with the drone revamp, considering the performance gains. And what with able to send out jamming/vamping drones and a bunch of near frigate like ships. If your drone bay can handle 15, and you can only launch 5, heck.. that means you can replace them twice before you are droneless.. giving you much better endurance. And the damage bonus's look insane on drone carrier ships (to compensate for the numbers loss).. I'll be very wary approaching such ships.
Heck, I bet the damage bonus's will end up being nerfed because the drones are so darn effective ; )
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Risstor
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Posted - 2005.11.04 02:07:00 -
[353]
asked this in another thread but it looks like i should have done this here are these changes written in stone? i've had enough of the "look and feel" changes taking place and would like to know when/if these drone changes are taking place would appreciate a definitive answer (if that is possible) as i will need to cancel my account before the next automatic payment takes place thanks
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.11.04 03:41:00 -
[354]
I just had a thought, since drones will be much stronger and tougher now after this change, can the model for a drone be altered from just one drone to three of them in a tight cluster?
That way at least the coolness factor of my drone ship would not evaporate into nothingness and there would be a reasonable explanation as to why drones are stronger - they aren't individual drones but small wings of drones...
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.04 03:42:00 -
[355]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 04/11/2005 03:43:48 Sweet. Can I have your stuff?
Some of the people who only like flash and glamout are leaving, so the average quality of my opponents will go up. I like that.
(PS, if you think any vet is bothered by 15 drones, snort)
Because THAT is the core of this change. It is no more bothersome to me than the change from RoF bonus to damage on intys (which, yes, cut my damage slightly) or the toggles for effect and turrets.
It's NEEDED. Deal.
Noriath, I don't think that's really worth the dev's time, plus it would add back some server and quite a bit of client lag. (Consider, 300 paths rather than 100...)
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.11.04 04:03:00 -
[356]
Quite frankly, I think it is worth the devs time to make at least some change to the game that makes droneships not ridiculous. I don't get that entire 300 paths deal, if the model has three drones in it rather then one it wouldn't really change anything. Unless I#m completly missinformed that shouldn't make any difference, since the individual drones are not multiple parts, but just one model that looks like 3 drones...
I for one liked my Dominix because it had lots of drones, not because they did more damage. Now it's a lame damage bonus and the swarm effect gone. 5 drones, that's laughable.
And I'm also considering canceling my account for the first time with this change, I spent a lot of time learning skills for my Domi and have been using it for about a year now, long before it became the flavor of the month. Seeing it turn into a completly lame shadow of its former self in all but damage output hurts...
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Olivin
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Posted - 2005.11.04 05:17:00 -
[357]
Hp and damage boost is just lame cover up for the ugliest nerf I saw in Eve. In fact, why not just simply remove drones from the game since they cause lag. Oh! I got better idea - why not remove few thousands players. That will 100% reduce the lag!
Olivin
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Kateryne
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Posted - 2005.11.04 12:14:00 -
[358]
Or... why not remove anyone who whines at CCP :) if they become a fascist corporation at least those of us who aren't too bothered with the proposed changes, or who are willing to try them out before whining, won't have to put up with all the lamers in long threads like this!
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.04 13:58:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Noriath
Quite frankly, I think it is worth the devs time to make at least some change to the game that makes droneships not ridiculous. I don't get that entire 300 paths deal, if the model has three drones in it rather then one it wouldn't really change anything. Unless I#m completly missinformed that shouldn't make any difference, since the individual drones are not multiple parts, but just one model that looks like 3 drones...
I for one liked my Dominix because it had lots of drones, not because they did more damage. Now it's a lame damage bonus and the swarm effect gone. 5 drones, that's laughable.
And I'm also considering canceling my account for the first time with this change, I spent a lot of time learning skills for my Domi and have been using it for about a year now, long before it became the flavor of the month. Seeing it turn into a completly lame shadow of its former self in all but damage output hurts...
Bluntly? heh
I really couldn't care less about the graphics. Make drones an icon plz, rather have that 1FPS extra.
And if you're talking a single model, then remembering the extra client-side code they'd need to make to handle relative positional shifts, the only other problem is the far larger bounding box they'd need. More drones sticking to each other, Noriath?
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Mihoshi Tsunami
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Posted - 2005.11.04 14:58:00 -
[360]
IĘm for the changes but it still needs too be tweaked as stated by the people off eve and the devs self killing 5 drones are easier then 15 isnĘt the simple solutions to increase velocity and orbit velocity and signature of the drone too be effective as 15 drones?
DonĘt reduce drone bay that much and no we donĘt need Drone bay expander donĘt want to give yet another slot for drone bay expander. The specialized drone ships like dominix and vexor etc. should have an huge drone bay because they rely on them more they should carry different kind of drones according to the situation.
Sentry drones IĘm against not only do you need too anchor them takes time it will be a favorite by gate campers. You want us players too move too low sec right?? DonĘt bring out this drone more off a reason not too go into low sec.
Another idea instead of sentry drones ōArtillery dronesö they orbit a few meters from there mother ship and fire at rats or artillery support drones they sot of attach to ship orbiting like 2M or a fixed location they boost ship turret optimal and falloff and some rof rate and fire in sync with the ship turrets so in other words a extra high slot or half.
Just and idea
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