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| Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 42 post(s) |
 Pharuan Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction    |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:39:00 -
[1351]
|
 Meridius |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:42:00 -
[1352]
|
 Summersnow |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:42:00 -
[1353] The ishtar currently gets 3 drone bonus's 1 to # of drones ( changed to damage bonus ) 1 to control range ( presumably stays the same ) 1 to size of drone bay... What happens to the last bonus? even halved its base drone bay is 125, enough for the 5 heavies it can control. Giving it space for one "extra" heavy it can't fly per level seems a bit pointless. |
 Summersnow |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:42:00 -
[1354] The ishtar currently gets 3 drone bonus's 1 to # of drones ( changed to damage bonus ) 1 to control range ( presumably stays the same ) 1 to size of drone bay... What happens to the last bonus? even halved its base drone bay is 125, enough for the 5 heavies it can control. Giving it space for one "extra" heavy it can't fly per level seems a bit pointless. |
 Meridius Amarr Viziam |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:42:00 -
[1355]
|
 Jim Raynor |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:44:00 -
[1356]
After the patch killing drones with smartbombs will be considerably harder. It's all ready rather difficult to take them out using a regular large smart bomb, mediums and smalls obviously can't do it, only officer smartbombs are really proficient at it. Also there's the CONCORD issues, depending where you are fighting.. Ishtars are really good obviously smart bombs dont screw them over that hard.. ------ If Captain James T. Kirk and Mr. Spock embracing one another, in a bath tube, nude, in space, is wrong, I don't want to be right. |
 Jim Raynor Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:44:00 -
[1357]
After the patch killing drones with smartbombs will be considerably harder. It's all ready rather difficult to take them out using a regular large smart bomb, mediums and smalls obviously can't do it, only officer smartbombs are really proficient at it. Also there's the CONCORD issues, depending where you are fighting.. Ishtars are really good obviously smart bombs dont screw them over that hard.. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
 HelterSkelter |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:47:00 -
[1358]
signed |
 HelterSkelter |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:47:00 -
[1359]
signed |
 Luc Boye |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:52:00 -
[1360] Well, ok, that whole smartbomb issue about drones is not really that big of a deal. What I am saying is that most people dont have smartbombs on, since that extra high slot is much more useful when you fit nos there. So I gotta agree with my arch-nemesis Mr. Raynor about that one. However drones are still not that hot deal, even if they do look great on paper. For example, most hacs can run circles around ishtar and shoot drones at leisure while scrambling for +1. If you dont web someone right away in ishtar you are not going to kill anything, so at best its a stand off. At worst they shoot your drones and then you die. As for the whole logistics of drones, and drone interface (still buggy after 2.5 years) it just sucks. You really gotta fly a drone ship to understand why. This whole argument is like ppl whinging about how much dps 7xmodal neutron + 7 dmg mods megathron does (Nafri) as in "everybody flies ships like that everyday, right?". What works in practice is Raven chunking torps at you, geddon melting you from 30 k in 15 secs, megathron and tempests sniping ppl off, etc. Selective paper comparisons are just bollox. |
 Pharuan |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:52:00 -
[1361] My drones get killed by smartbombs fairly easily. I understand that they will be getting a boost to their hitpoints, but do we know how much of a boost yet? 50% 100%. What about lock times? Will they be harder? And what kind of hp will the 'new' drones have? |
Pharuan Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:52:00 -
[1362] My drones get killed by smartbombs fairly easily. I understand that they will be getting a boost to their hitpoints, but do we know how much of a boost yet? 50% 100%. What about lock times? Will they be harder? And what kind of hp will the 'new' drones have? |
 Luc Boye Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:52:00 -
[1363] Well, ok, that whole smartbomb issue about drones is not really that big of a deal. What I am saying is that most people dont have smartbombs on, since that extra high slot is much more useful when you fit nos there. So I gotta agree with my arch-nemesis Mr. Raynor about that one. However drones are still not that hot deal, even if they do look great on paper. For example, most hacs can run circles around ishtar and shoot drones at leisure while scrambling for +1. If you dont web someone right away in ishtar you are not going to kill anything, so at best its a stand off. At worst they shoot your drones and then you die. As for the whole logistics of drones, and drone interface (still buggy after 2.5 years) it just sucks. You really gotta fly a drone ship to understand why. This whole argument is like ppl whinging about how much dps 7xmodal neutron + 7 dmg mods megathron does (Nafri) as in "everybody flies ships like that everyday, right?". What works in practice is Raven chunking torps at you, geddon melting you from 30 k in 15 secs, megathron and tempests sniping ppl off, etc. Selective paper comparisons are just bollox. --- |
Ace101 |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:54:00 -
[1364] OH MY GOD!!! WHY!! WHY!!.... im guessing about 25% of the players are Gallente, and this is killing everything that is good about gallente ships!! think of how worthless my domi and ishtar are going to be?! The Domi is/WAS one of them most fun ships to fly in PVP.. now i see things will be changing im not so happy... way to go ruin things. |
 Ace101 Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate |
Posted - 2005.11.01 21:54:00 -
[1365] OH MY GOD!!! WHY!! WHY!!.... im guessing about 25% of the players are Gallente, and this is killing everything that is good about gallente ships!! think of how worthless my domi and ishtar are going to be?! The Domi is/WAS one of them most fun ships to fly in PVP.. now i see things will be changing im not so happy... way to go ruin things. |
Pharuan |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:00:00 -
[1366]
They will do exactly the same damage as before, now that the bonus is changed to all and not just thermal. |
Pharuan Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:00:00 -
[1367]
They will do exactly the same damage as before, now that the bonus is changed to all and not just thermal. |
Gabriel Karade |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:01:00 -
[1368]Care to make a point, or are you just here to rant? (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
 Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:01:00 -
[1369]Care to make a point, or are you just here to rant? ---------- Video - 'War-Machine' |
majko |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:12:00 -
[1370] I didn't read all the 24 pages of user posts, but I have a question: - is there ANY compensation for the mining drone bonus on the Dominix , Vexor or Ishtar ? As the DOminix can have +5 drones now and with 5 Harvester drones and mining drone 5 skill DOminix is missing about 187.5 m3/min ore ! |
 majko Gallente |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:12:00 -
[1371] I didn't read all the 24 pages of user posts, but I have a question: - is there ANY compensation for the mining drone bonus on the Dominix , Vexor or Ishtar ? As the DOminix can have +5 drones now and with 5 Harvester drones and mining drone 5 skill DOminix is missing about 187.5 m3/min ore ! |
 Andarvi |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:13:00 -
[1372] Well I do like going mining in my Domi with 6 Miners II and 15 Mining Drone II.. the output is pretty good. But if I'm reading the changes correctly I will now be able to use just 5 mining drones with a 100% yield increase (due to Drone Interfacing 5). I'm missing 5 Mining drones, mail me if you find them, thanks.  |
 Esrevatem Dlareme |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:13:00 -
[1373] With the bonus change on the current +drone control ships, I really have no qualms about the new drone system at all now. However, it would be nice to get some things looked at. Specifically, drone collisions. Is there any way they could be changed to act like missiles do now, so they don't collide with anything besides a POS forcefield? (So that they can't randomly target stuff inside and slip thru.) This would fix the "drone hugging" problem. Also, a set of 5 large ECM jammer drones seems to me to be a tad more effective than a single ECM module due to the fact that is has 4x as many opportunities to jam, and giving a 20 second time span, this seems to have a much greater effect on ships with long lock times, such as Battleships. If you miss a jam cycle on a BS, it has time to lock you and shoot you. If you miss a jam cycle on drones, they'll have several more chances to jam just while the BS is trying to relock...but for a small frigate it's less effective as they can relock very fast. I'm not particularly saying that this is a problem, but it's something that needs careful testing. Asside from that, the strategy involved in only being able to choose 5 drones at a time seems like a good idea to me...you can go all damage and do that well, or go all EWAR and do that well, or do a mix and have less effectiveness, just like what most ship loadouts are like today. One final question tho, I assume that these changes will be ready to go in with the Red Moon Rising Patch, is this correct? ______________________________________________ As I stand, dazzled by the shattered twilight, I think back... I think back to all the events that have brought me here. And I realize... I realize I was ment to come here. Someone wanted me to come here. And now, I have come here. |
HelterSkelter |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:13:00 -
[1374] What about modules? Well they are not many and not that complex. So far there are three of them. One increases the damage output of all combat drones, one increases your drone control range and another boosts the optimal range and tracking on drones. How about skills What the hell lets release a few of those. Drone Navigation - Increaseses the velocity of drones, is also required to control the stasis webifying drones Drone Durability - Increases the hitpoints of all drones Repair Drone Operation - Increases efficiency of shield transporting and armor repairing drones, is also needed to use those drones Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing - Increases drone control range of all drones, is also needed to control EWAR drones. Sentry drones Interfacing - Increases damage of all sentry drones, also needed to control sentry drones even though the fitting requirements and % boosting these modules/skills give isn't given (at least from what i've read) It seems that the 5 new drones > 15 old drones in speed, range, damge, and maybe armor after some sp is invested. This doesn't really sound like nerf at all Well in some cases it is and in some it isn't. Take for example Dominix. Now it can use 15 drones with max skills but with these changes it could only use 5. These 5 drones do have the damage output of 15 though. But what if that dominix pilot only had Gallente Battleship skill at level 4 and drone interfacing at level 4. Now that pilot could use 13 drones but after these changes he could use 5 but they would give the equivilant of 12.6 drones. seems like what he's saying is that 5 new drones = 15 old drones with no new skill or modules on. Seems like an overal boost to drones to me. this should be taken into account when people do dsp/ship comparisons. Even though the true effect of the skills/modules isnt known. just food for thought |
HelterSkelter |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:13:00 -
[1375] What about modules? Well they are not many and not that complex. So far there are three of them. One increases the damage output of all combat drones, one increases your drone control range and another boosts the optimal range and tracking on drones. How about skills What the hell lets release a few of those. Drone Navigation - Increaseses the velocity of drones, is also required to control the stasis webifying drones Drone Durability - Increases the hitpoints of all drones Repair Drone Operation - Increases efficiency of shield transporting and armor repairing drones, is also needed to use those drones Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing - Increases drone control range of all drones, is also needed to control EWAR drones. Sentry drones Interfacing - Increases damage of all sentry drones, also needed to control sentry drones even though the fitting requirements and % boosting these modules/skills give isn't given (at least from what i've read) It seems that the 5 new drones > 15 old drones in speed, range, damge, and maybe armor after some sp is invested. This doesn't really sound like nerf at all Well in some cases it is and in some it isn't. Take for example Dominix. Now it can use 15 drones with max skills but with these changes it could only use 5. These 5 drones do have the damage output of 15 though. But what if that dominix pilot only had Gallente Battleship skill at level 4 and drone interfacing at level 4. Now that pilot could use 13 drones but after these changes he could use 5 but they would give the equivilant of 12.6 drones. seems like what he's saying is that 5 new drones = 15 old drones with no new skill or modules on. Seems like an overal boost to drones to me. this should be taken into account when people do dsp/ship comparisons. Even though the true effect of the skills/modules isnt known. just food for thought |
 Andarvi Caldari InNova Tech Inc |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:13:00 -
[1376] Well I do like going mining in my Domi with 6 Miners II and 15 Mining Drone II.. the output is pretty good. But if I'm reading the changes correctly I will now be able to use just 5 mining drones with a 100% yield increase (due to Drone Interfacing 5). I'm missing 5 Mining drones, mail me if you find them, thanks. |
 Esrevatem Dlareme Gallente Happy Happyism |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:13:00 -
[1377] With the bonus change on the current +drone control ships, I really have no qualms about the new drone system at all now. However, it would be nice to get some things looked at. Specifically, drone collisions. Is there any way they could be changed to act like missiles do now, so they don't collide with anything besides a POS forcefield? (So that they can't randomly target stuff inside and slip thru.) This would fix the "drone hugging" problem. Also, a set of 5 large ECM jammer drones seems to me to be a tad more effective than a single ECM module due to the fact that is has 4x as many opportunities to jam, and giving a 20 second time span, this seems to have a much greater effect on ships with long lock times, such as Battleships. If you miss a jam cycle on a BS, it has time to lock you and shoot you. If you miss a jam cycle on drones, they'll have several more chances to jam just while the BS is trying to relock...but for a small frigate it's less effective as they can relock very fast. I'm not particularly saying that this is a problem, but it's something that needs careful testing. Asside from that, the strategy involved in only being able to choose 5 drones at a time seems like a good idea to me...you can go all damage and do that well, or go all EWAR and do that well, or do a mix and have less effectiveness, just like what most ship loadouts are like today. One final question tho, I assume that these changes will be ready to go in with the Red Moon Rising Patch, is this correct? ______________________________________________ As I stand, dazzled by the shattered twilight, I think back... I think back to all the events that have brought me here. And I realize... I realize I was ment to come here. Someone wanted me to come here. And now, I have come here. |
Xtro 2 |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:14:00 -
[1378]
|
 Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:14:00 -
[1379]
|
 Haiev Lyath |
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:21:00 -
[1380] I don't fly Gallente ships but truth be told one thing comes to my mind. Nerfing. It happened to actually all races in this game. Now it happens to Gallente. The developers should finally realise that you just don't change the rules, any rules, while the game is on. Pacta sunt servanta. Right now it seems that whatever inbalance is found (read: some race's ships become more popular), CCP just decreases their potential. Which inevitably leads to another inbalance. So another race has to be nerfed. And another. This seems like a neverending story. I don't like this kind of approach. We spend a lot of time to train skills for particular ships and suddenly we realise it was for nothing. I personally think that if any inconsitence regarding ship's strenght is found other races should be boosted rather, more skills added allowing them to become en par with the 'superior' race, than cutting down the potential that already exists. If we agree on this right now, soon the wheel will turn again, and we will have Minmatar nerfed, Amarr nerfed and Caldari nerfed (and mind u it hasn't been so long ago). So instead of nerfing drones, some reasonable way to counter them should be introduced. Like boosting smart bombs for instance - their range, damage etc. Adding some drone interference modules might be a nice work around as well. In my opinion the simple act of nerfing is crude and primitive... It's like - you have a headache - cut the head. Simple and most obious solution. But not really the most brilliant or elegant one. Lots of blood tends to be spilt. Even if you provide a bucket, in this case presenting itself in the form of these hilarious EM, Thermal and other damage bonuses. This is nothing but a joke really. This is a nerf. Don't think about it otherwise. If some guy spits you in the face, please don't pretend it's raining. |
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