EVE Search - New drones, modules and what not

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Nafri	Posted - 2005.11.05 04:05:00 - [2251] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nafri the speed doesnt make up for the 800 DPS your missing compared to an armageddon, and probably its more then 800 unless you have maxed missle skills + gunnery Quite possibly... but DPS isn't everything. If you can't hit or can't target, it doesn't matter what your DPS is. If you're flying in a small combat group, sometimes the small surprises you can pull off are more important than raw damage output. And as a previous poster said, Geddon damage output is coming down with new patch. Well geddon will still do double DPS, and have superior tracking -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscription canceled
Nafri Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2005.11.05 04:05:00 - [2252] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nafri the speed doesnt make up for the 800 DPS your missing compared to an armageddon, and probably its more then 800 unless you have maxed missle skills + gunnery Quite possibly... but DPS isn't everything. If you can't hit or can't target, it doesn't matter what your DPS is. If you're flying in a small combat group, sometimes the small surprises you can pull off are more important than raw damage output. And as a previous poster said, Geddon damage output is coming down with new patch. Well geddon will still do double DPS, and have superior tracking From Dusk till Dawn
jamesw	Posted - 2005.11.05 04:44:00 - [2253] This is just going round in circles. Drone carriers do give up more damage when they swap out to a non damage drone. That is pretty obvious as they do more damage per drone. I dont think anyone is disputing that. What the point that I (and others) am trying to make is that, with the added flexibility that drone carriers get, the choice is with the pilot as to whether to swap that drone out. If the pilot chooses to do so, then it is obviously worth it as he has chosen to give up that damage drone. The other advantage drone carriers have over the other "5-droners" is that they can make that choice at the start of the fight, whereas other ships make that choice sitting in a station. A geddon flying around with web or EWAR drones cannot suddenly decide it needs damage drones. Guess what type of ship can... As Nafri said, the other drones are there to make drones more useful for the non drone ships. I think thats a pretty reasonable assessment, and not unfair in any way to drone carriers. Drone carriers lose NOTHING they cannot already do in the current system, they get more options too. Non drone carriers get a plethora of options to try, should they want to. As a few have mentioned in this thread, drones are a primary weapon for drone carriers. Thats right, and a weapon does damage. A web, or a multispec is not a primary weapon, so drone carriers do not need a boost or bonus on those. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia NEW Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2005.11.05 04:44:00 - [2254] This is just going round in circles. Drone carriers do give up more damage when they swap out to a non damage drone. That is pretty obvious as they do more damage per drone. I dont think anyone is disputing that. What the point that I (and others) am trying to make is that, with the added flexibility that drone carriers get, the choice is with the pilot as to whether to swap that drone out. If the pilot chooses to do so, then it is obviously worth it as he has chosen to give up that damage drone. The other advantage drone carriers have over the other "5-droners" is that they can make that choice at the start of the fight, whereas other ships make that choice sitting in a station. A geddon flying around with web or EWAR drones cannot suddenly decide it needs damage drones. Guess what type of ship can... As Nafri said, the other drones are there to make drones more useful for the non drone ships. I think thats a pretty reasonable assessment, and not unfair in any way to drone carriers. Drone carriers lose NOTHING they cannot already do in the current system, they get more options too. Non drone carriers get a plethora of options to try, should they want to. As a few have mentioned in this thread, drones are a primary weapon for drone carriers. Thats right, and a weapon does damage. A web, or a multispec is not a primary weapon, so drone carriers do not need a boost or bonus on those. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Olivin	Posted - 2005.11.05 05:22:00 - [2255] Originally by: Rex Lubyn Drone carriers lose NOTHING they cannot already do in the current system, they get more options too. Non drone carriers get a plethora of options to try, should they want to. As a few have mentioned in this thread, drones are a primary weapon for drone carriers. Thats right, and a weapon does damage. A web, or a multispec is not a primary weapon, so drone carriers do not need a boost or bonus on those. I am not following you. Drone carriers using drones as their primary weapon. So, what do you think drone carriers using their mid and high slots for? Do you really think that I will drop my heavy NOS's or full rack of multispecs in order to "try" five pathetic nos and ew drones? Please, give us a break. Also, I prefer to deal with 2-5 strong drones, instead of 15 somewhat weaker drones. You know, you do need find, lock, web and shoot at each individual drone. So, sorry to burst your bubble here, but 15 weaker drones a lot better than 5 stronger drones. Olivin
Olivin Gallente Aquarium	Posted - 2005.11.05 05:22:00 - [2256] Originally by: Rex Lubyn Drone carriers lose NOTHING they cannot already do in the current system, they get more options too. Non drone carriers get a plethora of options to try, should they want to. As a few have mentioned in this thread, drones are a primary weapon for drone carriers. Thats right, and a weapon does damage. A web, or a multispec is not a primary weapon, so drone carriers do not need a boost or bonus on those. I am not following you. Drone carriers using drones as their primary weapon. So, what do you think drone carriers using their mid and high slots for? Do you really think that I will drop my heavy NOS's or full rack of multispecs in order to "try" five pathetic nos and ew drones? Please, give us a break. Also, I prefer to deal with 2-5 strong drones, instead of 15 somewhat weaker drones. You know, you do need find, lock, web and shoot at each individual drone. So, sorry to burst your bubble here, but 15 weaker drones a lot better than 5 stronger drones. Olivin ---------------------------- We¦re not lost. We¦re locationally challenged.
jamesw	Posted - 2005.11.05 05:38:00 - [2257] Originally by: Olivin Originally by: jamesw Drone carriers lose NOTHING they cannot already do in the current system, they get more options too. Non drone carriers get a plethora of options to try, should they want to. As a few have mentioned in this thread, drones are a primary weapon for drone carriers. Thats right, and a weapon does damage. A web, or a multispec is not a primary weapon, so drone carriers do not need a boost or bonus on those. I am not following you. Drone carriers using drones as their primary weapon. So, what do you think drone carriers using their mid and high slots for? Do you really think that I will drop my heavy NOS's or full rack of multispecs in order to "try" five pathetic nos and ew drones? Please, give us a break. Also, I prefer to deal with 2-5 strong drones, instead of 15 somewhat weaker drones. You know, you do need find, lock, web and shoot at each individual drone. So, sorry to burst your bubble here, but 15 weaker drones a lot better than 5 stronger drones. Olivin Yes I agree. They are much stronger now. espescially when you lose 30 drones in 30 seconds to 1 large smartbomb. I am not suggesting you drop your nos, multispecs or anything else. I am pretty much suggesting entirely the opposite - that there is no need for you to do so (unless you see fit). My response was directed at those who say that drone carriers are being "nerfed" because they don't get specific boosts on the new types of drone. They arent being nerfed, and they shouldnt get those boosts, for the reasons in my post above. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia NEW Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2005.11.05 05:38:00 - [2258] Originally by: Olivin Originally by: jamesw Drone carriers lose NOTHING they cannot already do in the current system, they get more options too. Non drone carriers get a plethora of options to try, should they want to. As a few have mentioned in this thread, drones are a primary weapon for drone carriers. Thats right, and a weapon does damage. A web, or a multispec is not a primary weapon, so drone carriers do not need a boost or bonus on those. I am not following you. Drone carriers using drones as their primary weapon. So, what do you think drone carriers using their mid and high slots for? Do you really think that I will drop my heavy NOS's or full rack of multispecs in order to "try" five pathetic nos and ew drones? Please, give us a break. Also, I prefer to deal with 2-5 strong drones, instead of 15 somewhat weaker drones. You know, you do need find, lock, web and shoot at each individual drone. So, sorry to burst your bubble here, but 15 weaker drones a lot better than 5 stronger drones. Olivin Yes I agree. They are much stronger now. espescially when you lose 30 drones in 30 seconds to 1 large smartbomb. I am not suggesting you drop your nos, multispecs or anything else. I am pretty much suggesting entirely the opposite - that there is no need for you to do so (unless you see fit). My response was directed at those who say that drone carriers are being "nerfed" because they don't get specific boosts on the new types of drone. They arent being nerfed, and they shouldnt get those boosts, for the reasons in my post above. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.11.05 06:36:00 - [2259] Originally by: jamesw My response was directed at those who say that drone carriers are being "nerfed" because they don't get specific boosts on the new types of drone. They arent being nerfed, and they shouldnt get those boosts, for the reasons in my post above. You are right, they aren't being nerfed (in that respect, they are getting some small nerfs here and there which sucks, but we generally havn't complained too much about). HOWEVER... all the other ships are getting a boost that the Dominix isn't getting, as they have to stick with their current drones to maintain their current primary weapon. Here's another analogy to what's happening... say they made a new module that does something really cool, like has a chance to 100% web someone and warp scram them from 50km out. It takes up 2 high slots. But if you fit it on a Raven, it takes 3 high slots. Of course the Raven can just choose to not fit the module, but that doesn't mean it's fair. The people who don't give up their primary weapon (or as much of it) are getting more of a boost than the Raven is, thus it is an indirect nerf to the Raven by giving everyone OTHER THAN the Raven a bigger boost than the Raven gets. Now do you follow? As for the extra diversity... well, say this new module can be onlined from cargohold in space. The Raven still isn't going to use it as much as others do simply because they give up more than others do to use it.
Kaell Meynn Divergence	Posted - 2005.11.05 06:36:00 - [2260] Originally by: jamesw My response was directed at those who say that drone carriers are being "nerfed" because they don't get specific boosts on the new types of drone. They arent being nerfed, and they shouldnt get those boosts, for the reasons in my post above. You are right, they aren't being nerfed (in that respect, they are getting some small nerfs here and there which sucks, but we generally havn't complained too much about). HOWEVER... all the other ships are getting a boost that the Dominix isn't getting, as they have to stick with their current drones to maintain their current primary weapon. Here's another analogy to what's happening... say they made a new module that does something really cool, like has a chance to 100% web someone and warp scram them from 50km out. It takes up 2 high slots. But if you fit it on a Raven, it takes 3 high slots. Of course the Raven can just choose to not fit the module, but that doesn't mean it's fair. The people who don't give up their primary weapon (or as much of it) are getting more of a boost than the Raven is, thus it is an indirect nerf to the Raven by giving everyone OTHER THAN the Raven a bigger boost than the Raven gets. Now do you follow? As for the extra diversity... well, say this new module can be onlined from cargohold in space. The Raven still isn't going to use it as much as others do simply because they give up more than others do to use it.

jamesw	Posted - 2005.11.05 06:58:00 - [2261] Originally by: Kaell Meynn You are right, they aren't being nerfed (in that respect, they are getting some small nerfs here and there which sucks, but we generally havn't complained too much about). HOWEVER... all the other ships are getting a boost that the Dominix isn't getting, as they have to stick with their current drones to maintain their current primary weapon. Firstly I am skipping the analogy, silly hypotheticals have no place in this thread. I completely follow what you are saying. I simply disagree with you. I dont see it as a nerf, and I have given my reasons as to why. The Drone carrier has the boost that you speak of in another form - it has a load of highslots to do whatever it wants with. This is being made an even bigger boost because these changes make damage drones into a better primary weapon. After this change, carrier pilots will have less need to fit guns, and can fit completely different classes of module in their highs to better effect. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia NEW Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2005.11.05 06:58:00 - [2262] Originally by: Kaell Meynn You are right, they aren't being nerfed (in that respect, they are getting some small nerfs here and there which sucks, but we generally havn't complained too much about). HOWEVER... all the other ships are getting a boost that the Dominix isn't getting, as they have to stick with their current drones to maintain their current primary weapon. Firstly I am skipping the analogy, silly hypotheticals have no place in this thread. I completely follow what you are saying. I simply disagree with you. I dont see it as a nerf, and I have given my reasons as to why. The Drone carrier has the boost that you speak of in another form - it has a load of highslots to do whatever it wants with. This is being made an even bigger boost because these changes make damage drones into a better primary weapon. After this change, carrier pilots will have less need to fit guns, and can fit completely different classes of module in their highs to better effect. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.11.05 07:32:00 - [2263] Originally by: jamesw I completely follow what you are saying. I simply disagree with you. I dont see it as a nerf, and I have given my reasons as to why. That's fine to disagree, I can respect that, I only explain again because you state it as fact, and not opinion, that "They arent being nerfed". When stated as fact, it can only mean you don't understand the opposing viewpoint, so I explain. Quote: The Drone carrier has the boost that you speak of in another form - it has a load of highslots to do whatever it wants with. This is being made an even bigger boost because these changes make damage drones into a better primary weapon. After this change, carrier pilots will have less need to fit guns, and can fit completely different classes of module in their highs to better effect. Okay, now I have no idea WTH you are talking about... How are drones being made into a better primary weapon (especially one so much better that they have significantly less need to fit GUNS on their ship???)? They do the same (or less) damage as before O.o.
Kaell Meynn Divergence	Posted - 2005.11.05 07:32:00 - [2264] Originally by: jamesw I completely follow what you are saying. I simply disagree with you. I dont see it as a nerf, and I have given my reasons as to why. That's fine to disagree, I can respect that, I only explain again because you state it as fact, and not opinion, that "They arent being nerfed". When stated as fact, it can only mean you don't understand the opposing viewpoint, so I explain. Quote: The Drone carrier has the boost that you speak of in another form - it has a load of highslots to do whatever it wants with. This is being made an even bigger boost because these changes make damage drones into a better primary weapon. After this change, carrier pilots will have less need to fit guns, and can fit completely different classes of module in their highs to better effect. Okay, now I have no idea WTH you are talking about... How are drones being made into a better primary weapon (especially one so much better that they have significantly less need to fit GUNS on their ship???)? They do the same (or less) damage as before O.o.
jamesw	Posted - 2005.11.05 07:37:00 - [2265] Originally by: Kaell Meynn Okay, now I have no idea WTH you are talking about... How are drones being made into a better primary weapon (especially one so much better that they have significantly less need to fit GUNS on their ship???)? They do the same (or less) damage as before O.o. They are getting more hitpoints per drone, meaning more survivability vs their number 1 nemesis, Mr. Large Smartbomb. Also, Drone carriers are getting more drones, meaning longer fights and more damage type choice and stuff. New and more damaging selections to choose (sentries). Drone upgrade modules to fit on your ship. I understand that there are less drones to kill off if you manually target them, but really I dont see that as a problem. Its a lot less challenging to get around than a large smartbomb is at present. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia NEW Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2005.11.05 07:37:00 - [2266] Originally by: Kaell Meynn Okay, now I have no idea WTH you are talking about... How are drones being made into a better primary weapon (especially one so much better that they have significantly less need to fit GUNS on their ship???)? They do the same (or less) damage as before O.o. They are getting more hitpoints per drone, meaning more survivability vs their number 1 nemesis, Mr. Large Smartbomb. Also, Drone carriers are getting more drones, meaning longer fights and more damage type choice and stuff. New and more damaging selections to choose (sentries). Drone upgrade modules to fit on your ship. I understand that there are less drones to kill off if you manually target them, but really I dont see that as a problem. Its a lot less challenging to get around than a large smartbomb is at present. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Neil armstrong	Posted - 2005.11.05 08:08:00 - [2267] what about mining drones and drones that r already in ppls hangers should i start floggin my harvesters or not???
Neil armstrong	Posted - 2005.11.05 08:08:00 - [2268] what about mining drones and drones that r already in ppls hangers should i start floggin my harvesters or not???
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.11.05 08:13:00 - [2269] Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 05/11/2005 08:14:25 Originally by: jamesw They are getting more hitpoints per drone, meaning more survivability vs their number 1 nemesis, Mr. Large Smartbomb. Also, Drone carriers are getting more drones, meaning longer fights and more damage type choice and stuff. New and more damaging selections to choose (sentries). Drone upgrade modules to fit on your ship. I understand that there are less drones to kill off if you manually target them, but really I dont see that as a problem. Its a lot less challenging to get around than a large smartbomb is at present. I've never lost a drone to an enemy smartbomb (a couple while screwing around with corpmates). I'm not getting more damage, I'm getting less (12.6 vs 13). I get small fraction more HPs (5%), 31.5 for all drones in hold+field instead of 30, if you count all drones in hold (which is assuming I don't use any of this 'versatility bonus' and thus if you are arguing that HPs of my drones stays the same, you cannot also use the versatility argument), but a good deal less (20%) if you count those in field (10.5 drones worth of hitpoints in field instead of 13). So I still don't see where this idea that they're being made so much better they have a significant reduction in need for guns comes from. They are generally staying the same, or getting worse, thus would have a greater need to fit a standard BS setup of guns (which they can't very well). HP = (50% bonus assuming its a flat 50% and not based on DI level in which case I lose more, + 40% Domi bonus)
Kaell Meynn Divergence	Posted - 2005.11.05 08:13:00 - [2270] Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 05/11/2005 08:14:25 Originally by: jamesw They are getting more hitpoints per drone, meaning more survivability vs their number 1 nemesis, Mr. Large Smartbomb. Also, Drone carriers are getting more drones, meaning longer fights and more damage type choice and stuff. New and more damaging selections to choose (sentries). Drone upgrade modules to fit on your ship. I understand that there are less drones to kill off if you manually target them, but really I dont see that as a problem. Its a lot less challenging to get around than a large smartbomb is at present. I've never lost a drone to an enemy smartbomb (a couple while screwing around with corpmates). I'm not getting more damage, I'm getting less (12.6 vs 13). I get small fraction more HPs (5%), 31.5 for all drones in hold+field instead of 30, if you count all drones in hold (which is assuming I don't use any of this 'versatility bonus' and thus if you are arguing that HPs of my drones stays the same, you cannot also use the versatility argument), but a good deal less (20%) if you count those in field (10.5 drones worth of hitpoints in field instead of 13). So I still don't see where this idea that they're being made so much better they have a significant reduction in need for guns comes from. They are generally staying the same, or getting worse, thus would have a greater need to fit a standard BS setup of guns (which they can't very well). HP = (50% bonus assuming its a flat 50% and not based on DI level in which case I lose more, + 40% Domi bonus)

Olivin	Posted - 2005.11.05 08:26:00 - [2271] Originally by: jamesw Yes I agree. They are much stronger now. espescially when you lose 30 drones in 30 seconds to 1 large smartbomb. <cite> Tux does the math on drones reported by Tuxford \| 2005.11.01 16:25:54 Drone durability is another story. It's easier to kill 5 drones that it is to kill 15 drones but each of the drone after the changes has more hitpoints. Lets remember that drones are getting a static 50% increase in hitpoints. Sure it's less total hitpoints then the 15 current drones but on the other hand they take over twice as long to kill with a smartbomb...</cite> So now I will loose 15 drones in 60 seconds to the same 1 large smartbomb? 30 extra seconds in exchange of the 10 extra drones in the air and half of my drone bay -- not bad, but I want see it on sisi first, because I smell a nerf-cheese here. But wait! What happens in the scenario with guns. Frigs don't use large smarbombs, they use small guns. Your drone wave will die twice faster because it's easier to manage 5 drones kill ( even if they have 50% hp more) than 15 drones when you even can't lock them all. Not good! Originally by: jamesw I am not suggesting you drop your nos, multispecs or anything else. I am pretty much suggesting entirely the opposite - that there is no need for you to do so (unless you see fit). How so? New 5 nos heavy drones not even close to 4 heavy noses. And if I will use all drones to suck capacitor, what I will have in high slots? Guns? Launchers? Let see, I can't fit launchers to any of my drone boats and as for guns, I can only gimp Domi with cruiser size rails and my other boats have pretty gimped high slot layouts, which suggests that I should use them as a secondary weapon. Ok, let's drop multispecs from the mids and put cap recharges or shield tank. My 5 heavy ew drones not even close by effectiveness to 5 multispecs and then again, what I will use to kill the enemy? Then, instead of 1 drone per ship skill level I will have 10% drone damage bonus, which effectively made your new fancy drones uselles to me. If I use fancy drones (support) + guns (primary), I loose drones damage bonus and if I use combat drones (primary) + fancy high slots( suppot) I don't get any benefits from your new drones system. Originally by: jamesw My response was directed at those who say that drone carriers are being "nerfed" because they don't get specific boosts on the new types of drone. They arent being nerfed, and they shouldnt get those boosts, for the reasons in my post above. As far as I can see, most complains come from drone users, for whom drones are the primary weapon and who flying specific drone boats. They don't get much benefits from the new drone system. On another hand, new system is very beneficial to all other players, because it's allow much greater flexibility with setups, where you can drop repper, webby, small nos and add specific drones to your bay which not required cpu, pg and slot. Sure, the effectiveness will be no as great as modules, but it's still better to have extra wc in low and logistic drone in the bay instead of the offline repper, don't you think? Olivin
Olivin Gallente Aquarium	Posted - 2005.11.05 08:26:00 - [2272] Originally by: jamesw Yes I agree. They are much stronger now. espescially when you lose 30 drones in 30 seconds to 1 large smartbomb. <cite> Tux does the math on drones reported by Tuxford \| 2005.11.01 16:25:54 Drone durability is another story. It's easier to kill 5 drones that it is to kill 15 drones but each of the drone after the changes has more hitpoints. Lets remember that drones are getting a static 50% increase in hitpoints. Sure it's less total hitpoints then the 15 current drones but on the other hand they take over twice as long to kill with a smartbomb...</cite> So now I will loose 15 drones in 60 seconds to the same 1 large smartbomb? 30 extra seconds in exchange of the 10 extra drones in the air and half of my drone bay -- not bad, but I want see it on sisi first, because I smell a nerf-cheese here. But wait! What happens in the scenario with guns. Frigs don't use large smarbombs, they use small guns. Your drone wave will die twice faster because it's easier to manage 5 drones kill ( even if they have 50% hp more) than 15 drones when you even can't lock them all. Not good! Originally by: jamesw I am not suggesting you drop your nos, multispecs or anything else. I am pretty much suggesting entirely the opposite - that there is no need for you to do so (unless you see fit). How so? New 5 nos heavy drones not even close to 4 heavy noses. And if I will use all drones to suck capacitor, what I will have in high slots? Guns? Launchers? Let see, I can't fit launchers to any of my drone boats and as for guns, I can only gimp Domi with cruiser size rails and my other boats have pretty gimped high slot layouts, which suggests that I should use them as a secondary weapon. Ok, let's drop multispecs from the mids and put cap recharges or shield tank. My 5 heavy ew drones not even close by effectiveness to 5 multispecs and then again, what I will use to kill the enemy? Then, instead of 1 drone per ship skill level I will have 10% drone damage bonus, which effectively made your new fancy drones uselles to me. If I use fancy drones (support) + guns (primary), I loose drones damage bonus and if I use combat drones (primary) + fancy high slots( suppot) I don't get any benefits from your new drones system. Originally by: jamesw My response was directed at those who say that drone carriers are being "nerfed" because they don't get specific boosts on the new types of drone. They arent being nerfed, and they shouldnt get those boosts, for the reasons in my post above. As far as I can see, most complains come from drone users, for whom drones are the primary weapon and who flying specific drone boats. They don't get much benefits from the new drone system. On another hand, new system is very beneficial to all other players, because it's allow much greater flexibility with setups, where you can drop repper, webby, small nos and add specific drones to your bay which not required cpu, pg and slot. Sure, the effectiveness will be no as great as modules, but it's still better to have extra wc in low and logistic drone in the bay instead of the offline repper, don't you think? Olivin ---------------------------- We¦re not lost. We¦re locationally challenged.
jamesw	Posted - 2005.11.05 08:27:00 - [2273] Originally by: Kaell Meynn I've never lost a drone to an enemy smartbomb (a couple while screwing around with corpmates). I'm not getting more damage, I'm getting less (12.6 vs 13). I get small fraction more HPs (5%), 31.5 for all drones in hold+field instead of 30, if you count all drones in hold (which is assuming I don't use any of this 'versatility bonus' and thus if you are arguing that HPs of my drones stays the same, you cannot also use the versatility argument), but a good deal less (20%) if you count those in field (10.5 drones worth of hitpoints in field instead of 13). So I still don't see where this idea that they're being made so much better they have a significant reduction in need for guns comes from. They are generally staying the same, or getting worse, thus would have a greater need to fit a standard BS setup of guns (which they can't very well). HP = (50% bonus assuming its a flat 50% and not based on DI level in which case I lose more, + 40% Domi bonus) Well, I can safely say that large smartbombs are a REAL pain at the moment. I have fought against pilots who have them on numerous occasions, and it is futile to the point of making a "drones only" Domi almost useless as a solo pvp ship. Drones do nice damage, and everything else is fine, but one smartbomb and you may as well recall them and go find another fight. Thats the current system - drones are really great and really flawed at the same time. Now, on to the new system... You are not getting more damage off heavy drones straight up, no, but you will have the option (I understand) of fitting some kind of "drone damage mod" to your ship. In addition to this you also have the option of choosing more damaging (sentry) drones. This means that if pure damage output is what you are after, then the new changes are for you. More drone HP's mean that if survivability is what you are after, the changes are for you. If you are after damage type flexibility, more waves of drone mean the new changes are for you. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia NEW Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2005.11.05 08:27:00 - [2274] Originally by: Kaell Meynn I've never lost a drone to an enemy smartbomb (a couple while screwing around with corpmates). I'm not getting more damage, I'm getting less (12.6 vs 13). I get small fraction more HPs (5%), 31.5 for all drones in hold+field instead of 30, if you count all drones in hold (which is assuming I don't use any of this 'versatility bonus' and thus if you are arguing that HPs of my drones stays the same, you cannot also use the versatility argument), but a good deal less (20%) if you count those in field (10.5 drones worth of hitpoints in field instead of 13). So I still don't see where this idea that they're being made so much better they have a significant reduction in need for guns comes from. They are generally staying the same, or getting worse, thus would have a greater need to fit a standard BS setup of guns (which they can't very well). HP = (50% bonus assuming its a flat 50% and not based on DI level in which case I lose more, + 40% Domi bonus) Well, I can safely say that large smartbombs are a REAL pain at the moment. I have fought against pilots who have them on numerous occasions, and it is futile to the point of making a "drones only" Domi almost useless as a solo pvp ship. Drones do nice damage, and everything else is fine, but one smartbomb and you may as well recall them and go find another fight. Thats the current system - drones are really great and really flawed at the same time. Now, on to the new system... You are not getting more damage off heavy drones straight up, no, but you will have the option (I understand) of fitting some kind of "drone damage mod" to your ship. In addition to this you also have the option of choosing more damaging (sentry) drones. This means that if pure damage output is what you are after, then the new changes are for you. More drone HP's mean that if survivability is what you are after, the changes are for you. If you are after damage type flexibility, more waves of drone mean the new changes are for you. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Soulita	Posted - 2005.11.05 10:03:00 - [2275] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/11/2005 00:19:50 Originally by: Soulita Drone carriers are: Domi, Ishtar, Moros ... The Ishkur is a drone carrier too. You have to scale changes to it as well, for the sake of balance. So it would have 6 drones to play with. Yes, agreed. (Not sure about the Thorax, but I think CCP wanted this to stay with few drones so left it out) Originally by: Maya Rkell And your idea's drawback is the overpowering of EW drones on the drone ships, and the very thing that this update is addressing: lag. I dont see how EW drones would be overpowered on DCs with my suggestion. They would have no bonuses on the drone carriers and for using each you would still have to give up 1/7th of your main firing power including bonuses that come with em (damage dealing drones) on a DC. By allowing DCs to carry 7 (or 6 in case of Ishkur) drones, instead of 5 as currently planned I would think drone related lag would still be greatly reduced compared to how many drones these ships can launch now.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2005.11.05 10:03:00 - [2276] Edited by: Soulita on 05/11/2005 10:24:11 Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/11/2005 00:19:50 Originally by: Soulita Drone carriers are: Domi, Ishtar, Moros ... The Ishkur is a drone carrier too. You have to scale changes to it as well, for the sake of balance. So it would have 6 drones to play with. Yes, agreed. Originally by: Maya Rkell And your idea's drawback is the overpowering of EW drones on the drone ships, and the very thing that this update is addressing: lag. I dont see how EW drones would be overpowered on DCs with my suggestion. They would have no bonuses on the drone carriers and for using each you would still have to give up 1/7th of your main firing power including bonuses that come with em (damage dealing drones) on a DC. By allowing DCs to carry 7 (or 6 in case of Ishkur) drones, instead of 5 as currently planned I would think drone related lag would still be greatly reduced compared to how many drones these ships can launch now.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.11.05 10:32:00 - [2277] Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 05/11/2005 10:24:11 Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/11/2005 00:19:50 Originally by: Soulita Drone carriers are: Domi, Ishtar, Moros ... The Ishkur is a drone carrier too. You have to scale changes to it as well, for the sake of balance. So it would have 6 drones to play with. Yes, agreed. Originally by: Maya Rkell And your idea's drawback is the overpowering of EW drones on the drone ships, and the very thing that this update is addressing: lag. I dont see how EW drones would be overpowered on DCs with my suggestion. They would have no bonuses on the drone carriers and for using each you would still have to give up 1/7th of your main firing power including bonuses that come with em (damage dealing drones) on a DC. By allowing DCs to carry 7 (or 6 in case of Ishkur) drones, instead of 5 as currently planned I would think drone related lag would still be greatly reduced compared to how many drones these ships can launch now. Somewhere last pag eI made a long post for the guys who cant understand why DC should get no bonus whatever using EW drones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscription canceled
Nafri Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2005.11.05 10:32:00 - [2278] Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 05/11/2005 10:24:11 Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/11/2005 00:19:50 Originally by: Soulita Drone carriers are: Domi, Ishtar, Moros ... The Ishkur is a drone carrier too. You have to scale changes to it as well, for the sake of balance. So it would have 6 drones to play with. Yes, agreed. Originally by: Maya Rkell And your idea's drawback is the overpowering of EW drones on the drone ships, and the very thing that this update is addressing: lag. I dont see how EW drones would be overpowered on DCs with my suggestion. They would have no bonuses on the drone carriers and for using each you would still have to give up 1/7th of your main firing power including bonuses that come with em (damage dealing drones) on a DC. By allowing DCs to carry 7 (or 6 in case of Ishkur) drones, instead of 5 as currently planned I would think drone related lag would still be greatly reduced compared to how many drones these ships can launch now. Somewhere last pag eI made a long post for the guys who cant understand why DC should get no bonus whatever using EW drones From Dusk till Dawn
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.11.05 10:35:00 - [2279] You know some people should actually try fitting large hybrids to a Dominix before complaining how they can't fit anything in the high slots. I get 44% more damage from my turrets than the 15 Ogre II's I can deploy. Oh and I'm looking forward to these changes... (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2005.11.05 10:35:00 - [2280] You know some people should actually try fitting large hybrids to a Dominix before complaining how they can't fit anything in the high slots. I get 44% more damage from my turrets than the 15 Ogre II's I can deploy. Oh and I'm looking forward to these changes... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'



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