|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.02 06:00:00 -
[1]
Another veteran by the name of Hardin once wrote a wonderful skill guide to help new players better understand the skill system in EVE. His departure left us without someone to look over his guide and keep it up to date. I have taken it upon myself to thoroughly update his guide and add my knowledge to it for the sake of our beloved newbies.
Attributes & Skills û The New Guide By Hardin & Tripoli
When you create your character, there are five attributes are allocated to him/her. The names of these attributes are: Intelligence, Perception, Charisma, Willpower, and Memory.
As you select certain schools and specializations during character creation your attributes are tailored to reflect what would generally best suit those specialties. For example, a scientist should have higher Intelligence and Memory. A fighter will tend have higher Perception and Willpower. A trader will have higher Charisma, and so on.
Attributes affect your training times for skills. Nothing else.
These attributes are the most important factor to consider when training skills. All skills have a primary and a secondary attribute that apply to them. You can see that information by right clicking on a skill in your character sheet and selecting ôShow Info.ö Only the two attributes listed for a skill will affect how long it takes you to train that skill. The higher your attributes are for a skill, the faster that skill will train.
If you have a lower attribute as the primary attribute of the skill you wish to learn, the training time for that skill will be longer than if you had a higher attribute. Your attributes can make a very significant difference in the time it takes you to train a skill.
The attribute setup you get at creation will have a big influence on what skills you can train quickly in EVE. If you create your character to be a fighter, the Perception will probably be your most important attribute. High Perception means it will not take you very long to learn gunnery skills and command skills, but it does mean that if you suddenly decide to change your career path and move into research, for instance, then your attributes wonÆt be as good as youÆd like and it will take you longer to train those types of skills. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.02 06:00:00 -
[2]
You are not stuck with the attributes you get at character creation; however, they will forever determine which skills your character will potentially train the fastest. It is possible to improve your attributes by training the various ôLearningö skills. There are eleven learning skills: Two for each attribute and a general learning skill that adds 2% to your attributes per level.
There are 10 skills that increase your attributes by 1 full point per level. The so-called basic set includes ôAnalytical Mind,ö ôEmpathy,ö ôInstant Recall,ö ôIron Will,ö and ôSpatial Awareness.ö The so-called advanced set includes ôClarity,ö ôEidetic Memory,ö ôFocus,ö ôLogic,ö and ôPresence.ö By using these attribute-enhancing learning skills it is possible to increase your base attribute by up to 10 points each. The Learning skill adds an additional 2% to your attributes per level. EVE does not display decimals after your attributes, but they are there and they do matter. If you are considering playing the game long term then the learning skills will save you lots and lots of time, allowing your character to progress much more quickly.
Detailed information on the exact calculations behind attributes and how they affect your training times can be found here.
People who are very interested in training the various learning skills often ask what order it would be best to train the skills. Though it does vary slightly character to character, the following list will give you a pretty good idea for the most effective order to train the skills. When you finish this list, youÆll have all five basic skills at level 5, Learning at level 5, and all five advanced skills at level 4.
Instant Recall I Analytical Mind I Learning I Instant Recall II Analytical Mind II Learning II Instant Recall III Analytical Mind III Learning III Instant Recall IV Analytical Mind IV Learning IV Instant Recall V Eidetic Memory I Eidetic Memory II Eidetic Memory III Eidetic Memory IV Analytical Mind V Logic I Logic II Logic III Logic IV Learning V Iron Will I Iron Will II Iron Will III Iron Will IV Iron Will V Spatial Awareness I Spatial Awareness II Spatial Awareness III Spatial Awareness IV Spatial Awareness V Empathy I Empathy II Empathy III Empathy IV Focus I Focus II Focus III Focus IV Clarity I Clarity II Clarity III Clarity IV
Thought it would eventually be worthwhile to train the advanced learning skills to level 5, it can literally take years to make up the time spent training them. That said, many people do actually max them all out, myself included. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.02 06:01:00 -
[3]
Implants, like learning skills, can also boost your attributes and save you significant training time. At the moment it is possible to get implants that add anywhere from 1 to 5 points to any given attribute. You can only plug in one implant per attribute. Implants are destroyed if you try to remove them from your head, so once you have plugged one in it cannot be taken out and reused. Removing the implant will destroy it. Implants are also lost if you are pod-killed.
To be able to use implants you first need to have trained the ôcyberneticsö skill. (In order to train Cybernetics you need the ôScienceö skill at level 3). Implants can be obtained by doing agent missions (a lot of them) or by buying them off the market from other players.
Remember, implants will be lost if you get pod-killed; therefore, you may want to think twice about buying and installing a full set of implants if you are likely to be operating in dangerous areas.
General Tips
To date, charisma is the most useless attribute in EVE. Currently there are relatively few skills that have Charisma as a primary attribute. It is likely that this attribute will become more useful as the game progresses and content is added, but at this point it is easily the least useful.
Try to maximize your attributes in any areas where you will be doing lots of training. For example, Navigation skills all have Intelligence as their primary attribute and Perception as their secondary attribute, so if you are about to embark on training all your Navigation skills to level 4 or 5 then boosting your Intelligence and Perception will save you a substantial amount of time.
Another thing that people often wonder about is the ôRankö of a skill. It is actually very simple what the Rank of a skill implies. The higher the rank, the longer it will take you to train. Now, itÆs not that it takes you longer to gain 1 skill point, itÆs that it takes more skill points to finish a level of a skill. A Rank(2) skill will take exactly twice as long to train as a Rank(3) skill because it requires twice as many skill points.
Always have a skill training. If a skill is due to complete in 2 hours and you know you are going to be away for 14 hours, then switch the training to another skill that will take 14 hours or more (you do not lose and progress if you stop training skills or start training other skills). When you get back home you can switch back to finish the original skill and then you will have avoided losing any skill training time. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.02 06:01:00 -
[4]
Here are the various skill groups and which attributes are typically primary and secondary for them:
Drones: Memory / Perception
Electronics: Intelligence / Memory
Engineering: Intelligence / Memory
Gunnery: Perception / Willpower
Industry: Memory / Intelligence
Leadership: Willpower / Charisma
Learning: Memory / Intelligence
Mechanic: Intelligence / Memory
Missiles: Perception / Willpower
Navigation: Intelligence / Perception
Science: Intelligence / Memory
Social: Charisma / Intelligence
Spaceship Command: Perception / Willpower
Trade: Willpower / Charisma
I personally think that a balance of attribute points in Intelligence, Memory, Perception, and Willpower will serve you best in the long run. Even if you intend to be an ace fighter which requires high Perception and Willpower, a lot of the secondary skills that are required to make a really good fighter (such as Engineering and Electronics) require good Intelligence and Memory. Intelligence and Perception are, in my opinion, the most important attributes in the game.
I hope that you will find this information helpful. I always welcome questions and comments. IÆll try to keep this information up to date for yÆall.
---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.03 04:57:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Tripoli on 03/11/2005 04:58:56
Dang it, Schrodingers Cat......you JUST beat me to updating that. I had simply copied that info from an old post from someone else and hadn't bothered checking it. You posted up your reply WHILE I was auditing that list...and our lists are nearly identical, though I'm leaving out the level 5 advanced stuff for now. Oh well, the post has been updated.
Thanks to those who caught my typo regarding Rank. Corrected.
Maelzel, I was debating if I was a little too harsh with my Charisma bashing. I've edited it to be a little more friendly to that beloved attribute.
And Asaaj, I added an estimate of the total time required for training my updated list. It's about 60 days to train all basic skills to level 5 and advanced skills to level 4. Yes, that takes into account your accelerating training speed throughout the process.
Where's my STICKY??? ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.04 05:05:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Joshua Keeling All the of the learning skills have different required skills than you stated ^_^.
Some use charisma, some use willpower, etc.
Of course, several skill catagories have more than two attributes that apply to them, but generally two attributes are clearly favored. In the case of the Learning catagory, Memory and Intelligence are definately the dominant attributes because of their association with the so-called basic learning skill set. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.04 05:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Oiri Yusko Stickied. Old sticky removed, since this one's more up-to-date.
Why thank you. I will do my best to keep this sucker as up-to-date and accurate as I can. Already have a few more improvements I'm working on. Stay tuned. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.08 02:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hardin Just wanted to say thank you to Tripoli for taking this on and even crediting me
I have not actually left (completely) however I no longer have the time to dedicate to EVE that I once did. In addition I cancelled my web hosting subscription and forgot that it held the guide!
Thanks again Tripoli and I hope this gets somewhere near the 86,000 read the first thread got.
Hardin
It's my pleasure to follow in your footsteps. Geez, 86,000 reads...I'd better get busy...
F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 ... ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.09 02:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Diss Champ When you get to the advanced skills for Charisma, Perception, and Willpower, your progression is not optimal yet.
If you care about every second, in the general case you learn level 1 of each, then 2 of each, etc, ordered so that you are always training the skill you just got a point helping the secondary from.
To optimize further, you make sure that the one of these that you train slowest is not the first you train to level 1, so that you get it's secondary trained up a level before you train it.
I was actually trying to give a generalized order, and as you can see, I said that that order varies from character to character. That said, I did put Focus, Clarity, and Presence in the proper order, though I didn't explain why. I do go into much more detail on this in my other thread about attributes calculations.
Originally by: Diss Champ An interesting question which someone should compute is what the optimal time to train to use implants is in the progression. Obviously, if you are training a second account you will give them some implants to speed their start- but how much MEM/INT/Learn is optimal for them to learn before they learn cybernetics? (Assuming you didn't do a path that gives them cybernetics to start).
Three scenerios of interest would be for a set of +1 (for new players), a set of +3 (most players), and a set of +5 (for the rich who want to catch up fast, since this analysis requires much more training time assume that +3 will be plugged at the appropriate time to put in the +3, so we are only interested here in when it's optimal to train enough to upgrade to +5).
Well, the answer for using +3 implants is easy. Don't train any learning skills first. You only need Cybernetics level 1 to use a +3 implant and that only requires Science level 3. Adding three points to all of your attributes in your first 12 hours of training is well worst putting the learning skills on hold for.
For a +1 implant, the decision would rely on how long it actually takes you to train Science to level 3 and Cybernetics to level 1 (same requirements as a +3 implant). Looks like on average that should take about 10-11 hours, so whatever you can train faster than 10 hours is worthwhile (except maybe level 2 of Learning). This would suggest that getting Learning level 1, Instant Recall level 2 and Analytical Mind level 2 would probably be a good way to start before training for the +1 implant. The same logic would apply to a +2 implant.
The +5 implant would obviously be put off a little longer because it requires training Cybernetics to level 5. I'd train for this after having trained Instant Recall level 4, Analytical Mind level 4, and Learning level 3. I didn't actually do the math on this, but that's a well-educated guess. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.29 01:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jumbala helo, could you explain the snake inplant and the 15%?
Check out this thread: Pirate Implants FAQ ---
|
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.30 07:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Eric Secundus Edited by: Eric Secundus on 29/11/2005 16:42:21 Are fractions of an attribute, though hidden, taken into account when determining skill training time?
For instance, will a 15,9 Perception character train Spaceship Command any faster than a 15 Perception one?
Yes and yes. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.12.10 16:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Aquilles Caley I read it somewhere that training for level 5 in Learning skill, only pays off like a year after. If so, why not leave it for the last on the list?
Because there comes a point when it's more time efficient to train for that extra 2% (which improves all attributes) than it is to train for an extra 5% (which affects only one attribute). ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.12.18 22:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Brannik Taal Of course, training learning is more like a 3% increase, rather than 2% per level.
Because it bumps ALL your attributes up by 2%. And for each skill, 2 attributes are involved, one contributes half the learning the other does. So it's a 2% boost to the learning points from your primary attribute, and a 1% boost to points from the secondary attribute. And it has this effect on ALL skills, not just a limited subset.
Off the top of my head, I wasn't sure if you were right or wrong about this one. My math on this one was a bit sketchy, but I believe you have the general idea pretty much right, just your numbers were off a bit.
One level of the "Learning" skill actually increases your training speed by 1.85%. One level of one of the attribute-specific skills, when divided by 5, actually only works out a 1.1% training speed increase.
While this does not change the most effective order to train learning skills in, it does show that the Learning skill itself holds more weight than some people might think. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.12.27 05:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Frostan Silvar so one skill affects the abilities' training time primarily and the secondary skill would, by my guess, most logically help train the skill around half as much as the primary?
Correct. The secondary attribute listed for a skill has exactly half the effect of the primary attribute. Originally by: Frostan Silvar Anyway I'm having a hard time balancing out whether i should get my Learning skills up asap or if it's better to get some of my profession skills to level 4 at least and then switch to learning...
This is totally up to you. The most efficient thing to do would be to go ahead and train learning skills, but the more entertaining option could be to continue training up other skills. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.12.28 03:25:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Crobain Stalker In my "learning" category I can only see the skill "instant recall" to be trained... how do i train the others?
You will have to purchase the remaining 5 so-called basic learning skills off the market. They are listed under Skills & Accessories --> Skills --> Learning.
The 6 basic Learning skills cost 31,500 to 45,000 isk each and include Analytical Mind, Empathy, Instant Recall, Iron Will, Learning, and Spatial Awareness.
Once you have purchased the skills, you'll fly to the station where they are located and you'll find them sitting in your items hanger waiting for you. Right click on each one and select "Train Skill." This will add them to your skillsheet. You can change the skills you're working on without penalty, so when the window pops up that says "Switch Skill Training," just click OK. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.01.03 05:51:00 -
[16]
Most skills (including all of the learning skills) are available for purcahse off of the market. Most empire regions will have all the skills you need up for sale. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.01.05 02:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lizan I'm planning on powerleveling a new account to advanced learning 4s using +3 implant set and following the given list(thanks for it btw), I was just wondering how much do the implants actually affect training the whole list? The estimate was 60 days for all without .. so? Thanks if you can answer =o
Adding a full set of +3 implants could knock a significant amount of time off this training. As much as 17 days. ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.01.10 05:09:00 -
[18]
Sure it is. That's what they're there for.
--- WTB Rare Skills --- Bloodraider Encryption Methods Serpentis Encryption Methods Talocan Technology Yan Jung Technology
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.01.21 04:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ser Rel What if you could afford snake implants considering they give the percentage bonus and also the other implant that increases the effectiveness of all snake implants? Not sure how the implants stack but it seems like they should add a lot.
Neat implants, but +4s and +5s still give a better attribute bonus.
Not quite sure what exactly you're asking though. --- --- WTB Rare Skill: Yan Jung Technology ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.01.21 04:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Long Redd I know there used to be but does anyone know of an up to date printable skills tree please?
As far as I know there hasn't been an updated one made since Cold War. The original creator said it was getting to be too much of a pain. --- --- WTB Rare Skill: Yan Jung Technology ---
|
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.01.23 05:28:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tripoli on 23/01/2006 05:28:07
Originally by: Ser Rel I was wondering if the percentage bonus works on the implants attribute bonus. so instead of 3 you get more with each extra implant of the set you get.
Yes, the learning skill bonus applies to implants.
If you have Learning level 5, which amouts to a 10% increase, plugging in a +3 implant actually adds 3.3 to your attribute. --- --- WTB Rare Skill: Yan Jung Technology ---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.02.15 05:09:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Minia Everlast Hiya ! first of all i started couple days ago, anyway i like this game pretty much.
So what skills and witch order i should take em to make me a good miner? also offtopic a little but what ships to upgrade? (im gallant)
Aside from the learning skills, Mining level 4 is very important as it allows you to use Miner IIs and is required to train Astrogeology (Science level 4 is also required).
If you're brand new the Imicus is a good mining ship, also I'm told the Catalyst works well. Once you move up to a cruiser, the Exequror and Vexor are good, and the Thorax is the best. You'll also want to be able to use an Iteron to haul your ore. I recommend training up for the Iteron III, as the I & II aren't too great. ---
Skill Collector Level 273 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 01:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dirk Badgewick I notice on some of the posts I've read (not just this thread but all over the forums) there are people who complain about the amount of skill points they have. Usually the feeling from them is they've spent too much on the wrong kind of skill points and they want to reroll.
Why would they ahve this feeling? Isn't one of the benefits of this game that you can learn as much as you want in as many different areas as you want?
Hopefully the only reason people reroll is if they discover very early on that they have a very bad attribute setup. Because of the unlimited skill system, there is otherwise no reason to reroll....ever. ---
Skill Collector Level 273 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 04:18:00 -
[24]
Yes, there are many exceptions to that general rule. Leadership skills and Command skills often have different attributes than the usual pair. ---
Skill Collector Level 273 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 07:51:00 -
[25]
You and Deileon could have a fascinating and informative conversation. ---
Skill Collector Level 275 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.03.24 03:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Eiskalt Did I miss something or why should "Eidetic Memory" and "Logic" not be trained to V? Don¦t they pay off?
Each advanced learning skill has an average payoff time of 266 days. So, yes it will eventually pay off if you stick with EVE long enough, but it takes a long, long time. ---
Skill Collector Level 275 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.03.25 00:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dimitri H So, after reading all this, I'm getting the feeling, that if I spend the time to at least get all of the learning skill to level 4(this takes about a month?), I'll be able to at least "catch up" on the time spent if I play 3-4 months after that?
Training the advanced learning skills requires level 5 of the basic skills. In total, this will take you around 2 months and will pay off in 9 months. ---
Skill Collector Level 275 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.03.29 05:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: CardboardSword42 Is there a program out there for planning skill training? I remember using a Java program a while ago but I can't find it anymore
The EVE Character Manager may be useful, though I've never tried it as I wrote my own in Excel. ---
Skill Collector Level 277 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.03.31 07:08:00 -
[29]
Specific information on the bloodlines isn't my specialty. You might try asking Deileon. He seems to keep pretty up-to-date on that stuff. ---
Skill Collector Level 277 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.04.10 03:50:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dubhar This is good information, however there is one thing I don't understand. I realise that a Rank 2 skill will take longer to learn than a Rank 1 skill, however how does the game determine what is a Rank 1 or 2 skill? I'm totally unclear on this. Is it racial, bloodline, attributes...something else? Also is it set in stone from the start, or can I change it as I go along?
Any help would be appreciated, and apologies if it's covered elsewhere and I just missed it.
Rank is not something that can be changed. Each skill has a rank assigned to it. Rank is the same for everyone for any given skill.
When looking at a skill on your skill sheet, the rank is shown right after the name of the skill. For example: Energy Systems Operation Rank (1) If you show info on a skill, the Rank is displayed as the "Training Time Multiplier." ---
Skill Collector Level 278 skills trained. |
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 06:09:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Eralis After reading this thread, I'm pretty sure nobody has computed breakeven time for skills correctly.
That so?
Originally by: Eralis If you train "random" skills, on average, your extra level of Logic will be worth an extra .33 (1.1/5+.55/5) skill points per minute, taking you an average of 3 years, 235 days to break even.
Looks familiar. 3 Years, 235 Days, 11 Hours, 3 Minutes, and 38 Seconds to be exact, and those numbers are not effected by implants, base attributes, balance between int/mem and other attributes, nor anything else. Though you went about calculating it with a few less (granted, unnecessary) details, our numbers in fact agree completely.
Here is where your logic (slight pun intended) is flawed:
Originally by: Eralis Keep in mind though that you only break even on total skill points at this point - you also played for over three years with less "useful" skill points than if you hadn't dumped 600k skillopints into a learning skill. It's going to take you ANOTHER 3 years, 235 days to break even when you consider the amount of time you were able to use your skill points.
First of all, your definition of a ôbreak evenö point and mine are obviously quite different.
Our figure of 1,915,863.63636 minutes is a pure mathematical breakeven. After 1,330 days of training a balanced skill set with an average set of attributes, you will have made up all the skill points you would have otherwise received had you never trained the last level of all 5 advanced learning skills. The thought that the time could have been spent training something else is entirely the point of calculating this number.
Stating that it would take an additional 3 years 235 days to pay off this training time is simply not true. LetÆs say the skill you decided to wait to train until after you finished the learning skills was Production Efficiency level 5. Using your reasoning, during those two months of learning skill training you wouldnÆt have built anything. Or if the skill was Gallente Battleship level 5, you wouldnÆt have gone around shooting things at all. Well, thatÆs obviously not the case. While training learning skills, you better believe you were building things or blowing them up, only you were doing it with 5% less efficiency. I assure you, it doesnÆt take 1,330 days to make up for thatàmaybe a couple days.
Originally by: Eralis So is training to level 5 worth it? Almost certainly never, with the possible exception that if you are going to train for a Capital ship, it's probably worth training Clarity to level 5 as Perception is the primary attribute for spaceship command, missiles and gunnery, which you'll get a years worth of training in on in not too long.
Ignoring the ôalmost certainly neverö comment, I think it should be quite obvious that training skills for capital ships would benefit from training Clarity 5. But why only Clarity? While no one could argue that you need a rather large number of skill points to be a capital ship pilot, perception skills alone donÆt make you good at it. Other capital skill require things like Engineering 5, Energy Emission Systems 5, Shield Emission Systems 5, Shield Operation 5, Tactical Shield Manipulation 5, Mechanic 5, Hull Upgrades 5, Repair Systems 5, Remote Armor Repair Systems 5, Jump Drive Operation 5, Navigation 5, Warp Drive Operation 5, Science 5, Drones 5, Drone Interfacing 5, Leadership 5, and all these are just to get you started. There are a whole slew of other non-perception skills required just to equip capital ships. If you really intend to be a capital ship pilot, itÆs well worth the effort to at least train both Clarity and Logic to level 5, if not all five advanced learning skills. ---
Skill Collector Level 279 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 23:54:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Eralis ...the whole time you were producing at 5% less efficiency. Once you have broken even, you've still had the ENTIRE TIME you were breaking even where you were operating at a lower efficiency...
This is your mistake. You aren't stuck with 5% less production efficiency or whatever for two years, you're only stuck with it for as long as you were training level 5 advanced learning skills, a maximum of around two months. ---
Skill Collector Level 279 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.04.27 00:38:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Tripoli on 27/04/2006 00:39:40
Originally by: Eralis No, it's not my mistake. You're relying on the fact that you're sure you're right instead of actually thinking about this. Because you're wrong.
I had a feeling you were going to say I wasn't thinking about this thoroughly, and I assure you, I am. I'm always the first to admit when I'm wrong. Anyways...
Really, where our difference in opinion lies is not in any of our math, it is in our definition of the "payoff" or "breakeven" point. Calling yours a mistake may have been, well, inaccurate.
Your definition is based on a player's actual theoretical progress in the game. You are, of course, correct that given perfect circumstances (as all our calculations are based on) it would take my payoff time times two to equal yours. For this very reason, people like Deiloen, while confirming my mathematical breakeven, have always said it would take much longer for this to actually become worthwhile.
For the past several years, people have asked how long it would take until training various learning skills would "pay off." When I asked for a more specific definition of "payoff" I always got the same answer: They wanted to know when they would have as many useful skill points as someone who hadn't trained those learning skills. This is why I have always calculated payoff as I do.
Aside from that reason, there is one other that has always made me stick to my definition of "payoff." While you're right that overall progress is potentially behind, once the mathematical breakeven point has been reached, the player that did train the learning skills is now at an advantage. Their skills from that point on will always be superior to the other player's. They'll finish every skill from then on earlier than the other. After that point, their battleship is better, or their science skills are better, or whatever.
So really, it all boils down to what's more important for you. Do you want to start being better than everyone else after the mathematical breakeven, or do you want to spend twice that long having progressed farther than whoever decided to train learning skills? I can easily see people going either way. I believe your definition would tend to be more in favor of science and industry situations, while I believe mine tends to favor combat.
Of course none of this applies to people who take the same attitude as me. I maxed out my learning skills because I wanted the highest possible attributes and the most total skill points. Payoff has always been a non-issue for me. I can train most skills faster than most players, and that makes me happy. My "payoff" was the moment I finished training the advanced learning skills. ---
280 of 312 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.05.18 01:18:00 -
[34]
Your praise is most appreciated.
You're right that Presence 4 most likely isn't a good idea at this point in the game. Hopefully in the future CCP will make it a more useful attribute. Learning 5 is actually a pretty good skill, but the year or so payoff can be a bit daunting. Save it for when you're on a short vacation or something. You'll be glad you trained it eventually. ---
280 of 312 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 03:21:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Hardin Thanks again Tripoli and I hope this gets somewhere near the 86,000 read the first thread got.
Hardin
86,000 reads: Check. ---
280 of 312 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.05.26 01:16:00 -
[36]
You'd think after a year I might notice that. Fixed. ---
282 of 312 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.05.29 16:02:00 -
[37]
CCP will never let us change our base attributes, but I'm sure they're planning on making charisma a little more useful/necessary. There are also other attribute-boosting things that will be coming out. Boosters and DNA Mutators, for example. ---
282 of 312 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.05.29 19:06:00 -
[38]
The idea is really to balance the training of learning skills and useful skills. Unfortunately, no one knows how long they will be playing, so it's hard to say for sure just how high you should train the learning skills. Almost no one could argue that level 3 of the advanced learning skills is pretty much essential, though (at least for intelligence and perception). Those pay off pretty fast with the current skill set, regardless of if you prefer my payoff definition or Eralis'. ---
282 of 312 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.05.31 23:56:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Dolph Mataan On a side note my starting Perception attribute was 7 and I do have aspirations to operate a Capital ship, not sure if I want to bother re-rolling though if I intend to go through all the Learning skills first.
(odd I kept getting "thread does not exist when I tried to edit my previous post).
7 Perception isn't crippling, but over a long time it could eventually make a difference. You'll find that your other attributes are important as well. Personally, I wouldn't bother rerolling. ---
282 of 312 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.06.02 22:53:00 -
[40]
Not a bad idea to do as much learning as you can, but don't get bored of the game because of it. Get your basics up to level 3 and have some fun. ---
282 of 312 skills trained. |
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.06.05 04:13:00 -
[41]
I feel your pain. I was born with only 4 Perception, which happens to be the most important attribute for skill collecting. ---
282 of 312 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.06.11 08:07:00 -
[42]
Handy ---
283 of 312 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.06.23 04:03:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Rhuff Also, I see "basic" skills being referred to repeatedly in this thread. What constitutes basic skills, and in what order should I get those?
The so-called "basic" learning skills consist of the 6 Rank (1) skills in the Learning category:
Analytical Mind Empathy Instant Recall Iron Will Learning Spatial Awareness
In the guide on the first page, there is a list of the ideal training order. Simply remove the advanced skills from the list if you don't want to, or can't afford to train them right away. ---
284 of 314 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.06.25 23:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mr Creed How would the optimal training order differ if I used +4 int/mem implants instead? Since you need Cybernetics IV for those it probably shifts the point at which to switch from learning skills to science.
Train for implants right away, before any learning skills, if you can.
Originally by: Mr Creed And would +4 implants save a decent amount of time on the way to advanced int/mem IV compared to +3s?
Not really. ---
284 of 314 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.06.30 02:17:00 -
[45]
Well, let's put it this way... The first portion of that list is used in the EVE-Online official Player Guide, and my list will also be appearing in EON #4. ---
285 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.07.11 03:23:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Tripoli on 11/07/2006 03:22:52
Really the best order for Presence, Focus, and Clarity is simply highest first. By that I mean whichever of those three attributes you have the most of, you should train it's advanced skill first, keeping the levels even, all three to level 3, all three to level 4, etc. ---
286 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.08.01 00:48:00 -
[47]
Lack of implants, perhaps? ---
288 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.08.04 02:48:00 -
[48]
Attributes in the high 30s are not possible. To the best of my knowledge, 31.9 is the highest currently possible. ---
288 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.08.08 02:57:00 -
[49]
Think of it this way: Adding 1 point to a primary attribute increases your training speed by 1 SP/minute. Adding 1 point to a secondary attributes increases your training speed by 0.5 SP/minute. From there it's pretty easy to calculate payoff. ---
288 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.08.12 18:45:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Butters44 i've hurd a lot of stuff that is supost 2 make training skills faster n this 1 im not shore of if u get the skill with the same name as the catagory 2 level 5 (for example drones level 5) will that make all the skills in that catagory go faster
This is simply not true. ---
288 of 315 skills trained. |
|
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.08.15 02:54:00 -
[51]
You gain points simply by right-clicking on a skill in your character sheet and selecting the option to train it to the next level. Skill points cannot be untrained once you have them, and there is no limit to how many you can have. The only way you can loose skill points is to be killed without a sufficient clone. ---
288 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.08.17 03:48:00 -
[52]
It's some really long, boring math to work it all out exactly, but a rough estimation is pretty straight forward...
Adding 1 point to the primary attribute adds 1 SP/minute, or 1.1 SP/minute with Learning 5. Adding 1 point to the secondary attribute adds 0.5 SP/minute or 0.55 SP/minute with Learning 5. Combined, that's a 1.5-1.65 SP/minute improvement for every point you add to a pair of attributes.
Making a few slightly unrealistic assumptions, you could say that adding 1 point to all attributes knocks off somewhere around 7,599 minutes, a second point 6,572 minutes, a third point 5,741 minutes, a fourth point 5,057 minutes, and a fifth point 4,488 minutes. ---
288 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.08.19 04:06:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch That would be nearly 20,000 minutes or a bit less then 14 days for +3 implants, a significant lower number then the 17 days you mentioned earlier...
Juwi Kotch
Keep in mind that my 17-day figure was calculated using fewer assumptions. The numbers I just gave you were based on several assumptions that can greatly change the time it takes to actually train these skills. I was merely doing some rough math to demonstrate how it is indeed a diminishing return for each point you add. I could figure it all exactly, but it's a real pain because you have to account for each attribute growing (and hence training speed increasing) every time you finish a skill, not to mention the fact that these calculatins vary (a lot) with an individual character's Memory and Intelligence. ---
289 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.08.19 04:10:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Flein So, it'll take me 60 days to max out all, and I mean all! attribute skills? perception, willpower, intelligence and so on? Me=EVE noob, started 2 days ago ;)
Welcome to EVE. Don't get too obsessed with the Learning skills, but do keep them in mind, as they can be a big help if you plan on playing for a while.
60 days is the approximate time it takes the average player to train all six "basic" learning skills to level 5 and all five "advanced" learning skills to level 4. Adding the 5th level of all 5 advanced skills adds another 65 days or so. Most people don't do that last level because it can takes years to pay off. ---
289 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.08.26 02:27:00 -
[55]
I have stressed many times not to worry about grinding these learning skills if you don't want to, but perhaps I haven't stressed that enough in this thread. Please, please don't let the learning skills turn you away from EVE, especially in the first couple months of play. ---
290 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.09.01 00:48:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Cylandria Im also lucky that I am able to use the client at work and change skills as time permits.
God, that must me nice. My work computer has a pretty decent Radeon and dual monitors, but I would be hanged if they caught me installing EVE on it. ---
291 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.09.03 15:29:00 -
[57]
I always recommend mixing learning skills into your schedule. One thing a lot of people do is train learning skills overnight, and others during the day. ---
291 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.09.06 00:27:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Areconus Heyy tripoli seen me recently haven't you?
Well anyways wouldn't it be faster to train all of the memory skills up first, even before the other learning skills to lvl 1 because for example if my starting memory is 5, then i train to adv lvl 4, thats 14, so im training learning skills close to 3 times as fast(dont know exact formula), then those lvl 1 skills take 10mins instead of 30, and lvl 2's take 50mins instead of 1 hr and a half and etc up the list so you would get all of your adv skills to 4 faster than if you trained instant recall to 1, then all the others to lvl 1, then 2, then 3 and so on...
No, you are better served by training up memory and intelligence together because of how long each next level takes to train compared to how much benefit it provides. ---
291 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.10.04 04:48:00 -
[59]
Just remember, implants are destroyed if you get podded, so only buy what you can afford to lose. ---
293 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 05:21:00 -
[60]
The only way to improve your attributes at the moment is with learning skills and/or implants. ---
294 of 315 skills trained. |
|
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 03:57:00 -
[61]
Exactly the way I see it. ---
294 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.10.29 15:44:00 -
[62]
The benefit from the Learning skill is calculated last. So to find your attribute, you take your base plus your other related learning skills plus any implant bonus, then multiply all that by your Learning bonus. ---
294 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 07:12:00 -
[63]
As of November 28th, 2006 the skill requirements for the advanced learning skills will have been reduced. (Previously, all advanced learning skills required level 5 in their basic counterpart. Now, they will require only level 4.)
I have updated the recommended training order accordingly. See page 1. ---
295 of 315 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 02:02:00 -
[64]
Originally by: SpaceDrake Taleweaver One thing, Tripoli. I, personally, would dissuade newbies from training Advanced Learning skills to 4 off the bat - with the skill requirement reduction, you can now train +7 to all attributes in the space of roughly a week (less if you skip Charisma for a while). The extra +1 will take a while to pay off, even though L4 in Advanced skills takes a fraction of the time that a +5 in Basics do. I really think we should be advising the nooblets to get on with training stuff that'll be useful to their gameplay ASAP - CCP has cut the Learning grind down by potential months and everyone should be encouraged to take advantage.
Even then though, are you sure getting to Basics 4/Advanced 4 takes a "month"? With my new Amarr character, the Advanced 4 train is going to take usually 2 days per skill, a bit more for Charisma... add in about a week and a half total to train all five Basic skills to four, that comes down to about two and a half weeks. Obviously I'm doing some off the cuff mental math, but unless a character is heavily Memory challenged I don't think the 4/4 train takes a "month" (E.G. 4 weeks) anymore.
Awesome guide, all the same.
I've never been an advocate for training nothing but learning skills right off the bat. I'm merely offering the optimal training order for those who want to know. I do indeed highly recommend training whatever makes the game fun for you. I just want to make sure people are aware of how beneficial the learning skills can be for long-term players.
My 1-month figure was also an off-the-cuff, late-night, slightly-drunken guestimate. While not difficult to calculate the time it would take the average player, actually going through the motions of doing those calculations is quite time consuming, and not really worth the effort because it can vary widely with player's attributes.
Glad everyone seems to appreciate my work here. It's my pleasure to help the community in any way I can. ---
316 of 341 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2006.12.13 03:28:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Ace Hawke Is the Learning skill modifier always on top of the attributes or does it only apply at the time you train it? That is will you get a 10% bonus to your current stats with a Learning skill at lvl5 or will it only apply at the time you learn it. (And the every attribute after this is stacked on top of that?).
Does that make any sense? =)
The Learning skill modifier is always calculated last, and the order you train skills in (or add implants) does not affect your attributes (and hence training speed) when it's all said and done. ---
316 of 341 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.01.17 05:43:00 -
[66]
Well, it's really not much an issue, seeing as level 4 is required to even start the advanced skills. Following the order I have laid out (which varies slightly character to character) is the optimal route. You should train the relevant advanced skills to level 3 before training the basic skills to level 5 (with the exception of Instant Recall 4). Because of the Rank 3 multiplier on the advanced skills, it's more beneficial to train their lower levels before continuing to the last level of the basic skills. ---
320 of 341 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.01.19 05:37:00 -
[67]
That can theoretically add over 500,000 SP/month above what you'd otherwise have. ---
321 of 341 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.01.24 03:45:00 -
[68]
10 different people will tell you 10 different things. Where to go once you've finished your learning skills is up to you. ---
321 of 341 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.01.28 03:50:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Michayel Lyon You're wrong.
You're....you're....you're ****ing right. ****.
/me goes and fixes the skill training order on page 1. ---
321 of 341 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.02.02 04:11:00 -
[70]
Indeed. While charisma is still the least useful of the attributes overall, its importance is slowly growing. ---
323 of 341 skills trained. |
|
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.02.10 18:24:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Dinife
Originally by: AvatarADV Having entirely too much free time on my hands, I decided to look at it from a different perspective - that of skill number x skill rank. This gives us a better understanding of the actual importance of a particular attribute - if the attribute is assigned to many skills with huuuuge ranks, then even small improvements in that skill will be valuable compared to skills with fewer ranks.
What total skill number are you getting this from, the total on sell is 344. And that is all of them. Which is 101 primary for perception, and 39 sec.. And 123 primary if int. and 53 sec.. You must be using a list that has skills on it that are not normal to all players. Like you have 130 for charism and i have only 40 primary and 13 secondary. And I have the learning skills included.
I think you've misunderstood AvatarADV's post. He's taking a different approach than most people have on this subject because he's adding the total number of Ranks and weighting them, rather than the total number of skills. Using Ranks should yield a much more accurate result for weighing the importance of attributes. ---
323 of 341 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.03.01 02:38:00 -
[72]
Personally, I think balanced attributes are the best way to go. Even if Intelligence and Perception are the most useful right now, CCP has a way of changing things over time. ---
325 of 341 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.03.03 19:30:00 -
[73]
For any character who can afford +1, +2, or +3 implants, they should train cybernetics level 1 immediately (before doing ANY learning skills) and plug the implants in. ---
325 of 341 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.03.23 00:31:00 -
[74]
Each skill is assigned a rank. That rank never changes. It's simply a multiplier that determines how "hard" the skill is by simply making it take longer to train. The level of the skill is the only thing that measures how "good" you are at a skill, and if can never train any skill beyond level 5. ---
325 of 341 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.04.18 00:55:00 -
[75]
If you started with Int 4 and are going to be doing a lot of things that use Int and your character is brand new, yes it's well worth starting over. ---
327 of 342 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.04.21 19:42:00 -
[76]
When Revelations came out, they reduced the skill requirements for the advanced learning skills down to level 4 of the basic counterpart. ---
328 of 342 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 02:19:00 -
[77]
LOL, no you're not foolish. In fact, I've been wrong my fair share of times, even about the skill training order. ---
328 of 342 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.11.24 21:43:00 -
[78]
Nope. You always have to log into EVE to change skills. The Devs want to keep it that way, too. If you know your skill is going to finish before you're home, switch to a longer skill before you leave, then start the other one again when you're back. --- 343 of 351 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.12.16 15:52:00 -
[79]
Those attributes look pretty good to me. I'd stick with that. Memory is not a terribly important attribute. I'd weight Intelligence and Perception higher for sure, and maybe even Willpower.
Train up your learning skills and get some implants and you'll be training fast in no time. --- 348 of 359 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech Dawn of Transcendence
|
Posted - 2008.04.16 01:30:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Tripoli on 16/04/2008 01:31:53 My pleasure. --- 354 of 359 skills trained. |
|
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 01:18:00 -
[81]
There is no correct answer to your question. It will depend largely on what you want to do and how long you end up playing the game.
For most people, getting all the learning skills to level 4 and adding some +3 or +4 implants is a good, solid start. Training all the learning skills to level 5 will not "pay off" for over 3 years. --- 355 of 359 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2008.08.18 02:20:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Xviix Why isnt this stickied ?
It used to be. Now it's part of the resource topic that's stickied at the top of this forum. --- All 359 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 04:59:00 -
[83]
Originally by: RaTTuS Trip your going to have to change this now... Apocrypha changes stuff....
Goodie. --- All 360 skills trained. |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2009.07.14 05:12:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Tripoli on 14/07/2009 05:13:37
It's been a couple years, but I've finally updated this guide again. While it is certainly not all-inclusive, I believe you will still find it very useful, especially the updated skill training order for the learning skills.
Of course, you can always find this thread by referencing the Resource thread at the top of the Skills forum. --- All 390 skills trained. Tripoli on EVE-Sheet.com |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 17:51:00 -
[85]
I think you may have misread that post. What you suggest is exactly what I have. --- All 390 skills trained. Tripoli on EVE-Sheet.com |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2009.07.31 22:01:00 -
[86]
I'd recommend Perception be your highest, with balanced attributes between Willpower, Intelligence, and Memory. --- All 390 skills trained. Tripoli on EVE-Sheet.com |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2009.08.19 02:57:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Gabebrel Tripoli has gone through a lot of trouble to figure out all the skill points and how to calculate needed time for skills. the one thing he wasn't sure of in his equations is the seconds and being able to be dead on. I think I can help him with this problem as his equations will spit out a number in the end in seconds. If you then Convert that number Into minutes then into hours then into days if need be. By taking your second number and divide it by 60 for minutes then by 60 for hours then 24 for days. Then take and stop at the days and take whole number off if you have one. That will give you days. take the number after the whole number and multiply it by 24 to go down to hours take any whole number there and you have hours spot then take and multiply anything under a whole number and multiply it by 60 to get minutes. Now take the number behind that and multiply it one last time by 60 and you'll have your seconds and you round up or down according to the math of under 4 down 5 and over up and you'll get the exact seconds every time. Its long and drawn out but I am sure this is how you get exactly what eve gets.
I'm quite familiar with how to properly round the calculation and then convert it to seconds, leaving off the minutes, hours, etc. Probably the longest formula I have in my personal skills spreadsheet calculates the seconds of time remaining to train every skill in the game to level 5, while excluding the minutes, hours, days, and years.
=ROUNDDOWN((SUM($R10:$R430)*24*60*60+SUM($S10:$S430)*60*60+SUM($T10:$T430)*60+SUM($U10:$U430)),0)-((Q2*365*24*60*60)+(R2*24*60*60)+(S2*60*60)+(T2*60))
The current result is 7 seconds. Total time is 15 years 160 days 10 hours 21 minutes and 7 seconds. --- All 390 skills trained. Tripoli on EVE-Sheet.com |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2009.08.19 21:59:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Tripoli on 19/08/2009 22:00:38
Originally by: Yahweh Graf imo it's really not rocket sciene that requires a guide.
My guides are more along the lines of how skills work, more so than what you should train. You may notice I'm not the type who usually responds to the, "Help me with my skill plan" threads.
Originally by: Yahweh Graf btw, what are you going to train when eve is no more?
Same stuff I do when I'm not playing eve, I'm sure. (I really don't play that much these days.) I work in an auction house for a living, and my hobbies include guns, cars, working out, and salt water fish tanks. Plenty to keep me occupied. --- All 390 skills trained. Tripoli on EVE-Sheet.com |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2009.10.05 19:16:00 -
[89]
I decided not to include the respec in my learning skill plan. I don't believe it's worth wasting a respec on a 5,376,000 skill point training plan. Likewise, I didn't include the 1.6 million SP training speed reduction because I don't believe it's in most players' interest to train all the learning skills right after creation. --- All 390 skills trained. Tripoli on EVE-Sheet.com |
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2010.03.22 00:26:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Tripoli on 22/03/2010 00:27:07
I've made a couple improvements to the guide in an attempt to keep things fresh, and to add a little more information to help guide the newbie pilot.
In particualar, I have added brief descriptions of each skill category (I'm open to suggestions for improving these) and the total number of skill points possible in each category into post #4. --- All 392 skills trained.
|
|
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 14:59:00 -
[91]
That question is answered in my other skill guide, Skill Training Times & Attributes Calculations. If you train all 5 advanced learning skills to level 5, it will take you 3 years 235 days 11 hours 3 minutes and 38 seconds to make up the time you spend training them (assuming you train using all attribtes equally...not likely). --- All 392 skills trained.
|
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2010.05.23 14:17:00 -
[92]
Originally by: RedLion Edited by: RedLion on 23/05/2010 14:05:26 subsystems have different skills, some require int/mem other perc/will.
also most (not all) of my trade skills are will/char not other way around.
My list was based on the simple majority of skills for those categories. Of 20 skills in Subsystems, 12 are Intelligence/Memory. Of 13 skills in Trade, 10 are Charisma/Memory. --- All 392 skills trained.
|
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2010.07.31 16:36:00 -
[93]
Glad to see people are still regularly using this guide and finding it helpful. I do believe this is the most-read thread in EVE at this point.
Is there anything y'all think I should add to this? There haven't really been any changes to the basic skill system, so I haven't done anything in a while. --- All 397 skills trained.
|
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 03:02:00 -
[94]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson 1 - You might want to do a small rewrite to Post #1 since all new characters are pretty much created equal and now have option of 2 Neural Remaps in the first year. For the 1st remap, list the best Neural Remap of attributes for optimal speed to work this skill guide. Then after this skill guide is completed, players can do the 2nd Neural Remap for optimal speed in training skills for their chosen career path (Mining, Science, Industry, Combat, etc). It might be a bit of work for you but if you could list those as well, I think that would make this guide more complete.
I've seen some demand for that lately. It is a bit of a pain, but I think I could get with and without remap versions at some point.
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson 2 - In Post #2, on line 2 and line 24 the word 'Implants' is spelled incorrectly.
Oops. Fixed. Late nights + lots o' beer apparently = impalnts. --- All 397 skills trained.
|
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 14:44:00 -
[95]
Originally by: VIT0 C0RLE0NE Would it be a good idea to take all the charisma I learned and put it into Intel and Percep? I am training this character to be a fighter. I already have the BS and all from an atl. Is there any reason I should keep the Charisma skill as opposed to leveling up percep and intel?
If your main focus is going to be combaat skills, feel free to reassign some of those Charisma points to whichever attribute you think you'll use the most. --- All 397 skills trained.
|
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2010.11.21 16:45:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Tank CEO Yo tripoli, how ya been?
Good to see ya, old buddy. --- All 397 skills trained.
|
|
|
|