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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4206
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Posted - 2013.06.03 18:51:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP is in no way obligated to compensate you for an unexpected down time for any reason, however they may choose to do so at their discretion (and have done so in the past).
You are entitled to exactly nothing.
You might receive compensation despite that, but it won't be because you demand it. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
0
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Posted - 2013.06.03 18:53:00 -
[62] - Quote
EULA shmoola.. its a customer service issue. Customers aren't happy it doesn't matter what your EULA says regarding your (the company's) responsibility.
I for one was out an entire day of play time on my 3 accounts. I pay actual money for those 3 accounts because grinding isk is.. well a grind. So regardless of what the EULA says (and OMG you people actually read that thing?), I'm out that money. So I'd be happy for CCP to pump up my accounts by a day or two (just to be nice guys) of playtime. 50k skillpoints would be fine too, based on the most recent compensation offered for the Launcherpocolypse. I'd much rather get the day of playtime back since that was Sunday and now I'm back at work. But it was their servers I paid to access, I could not access, and therefore think compensation should be had. |
Cellita Nardieu
Dark Void Holdings
1
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Posted - 2013.06.03 18:53:00 -
[63] - Quote
Freya Kaundur wrote:people should really read the eula. You are right but I would say : people should really know what is technically a DoS attack before giving advices ...
It's not a missed (obviously) untested update, it's a real attack that had purpose to stop the service. There is no way to prevent fully this kind of attack. Being able to kill a server that is able to handle 40K (or more) simultaneous users is quite strong. A server able to handle that kind of massive connexions is VERY expensive (you can compare its cost with the cost of a very big house in a very good place).
Unless players want to play for 100$ per months per account, there is no way to prevent that, unless creating a dozen of universes, that would kill the game because of the lack of users.
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Jacob Muvila
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.03 18:54:00 -
[64] - Quote
No they need to give us our missed SP and on top of that 2 days added to our game time. For those of us that run multiple accounts (i only run 3) but I am talking about the 10-20 + account holders 2 days across 10-20 accounts those guys missed out on damn near a months worth of productivity.
What happens if we get our accounts hacked? CCP doesn't reimburse us cus it's our job for proper security right? Well if there was a DDOS attack (I don't think there was) its CCP's fault for not taking proper security measures. We need to be and should be comped for this.
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Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
416
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Posted - 2013.06.03 18:54:00 -
[65] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Robert Saint wrote: CCP's fault
1) Make sure the software exploits are covered to protect your client database and their personal information. This usually means you hire an outside firm to attempt to hack your systems to find exploits. I was on the Sony network when the accounts were hacked and it was absolutely Sony's fault. To close your eyes to crime is not responsible to your client base.
Bull Faeces. Complete and unmitigated Bull Faeces. No one. NO ONE. Can stop an external attack from happening. Not church, not state, not mega-corp, not even Apple or Microsoft. If your network accepts any form of external connection, it can be attacked. Period. End of subject. What a corporation can control is whether or not the attack can succeed. This attack failed. Sure they knocked CCP off the line for a chunk of time - But that's how DCA (DDoS) work - And no one has ever found a way to shut down a DCA short of law-enforcement action. What the real threat and attack was, was against the backend services, which CCP successfully protected. Sony let the attackers in. CCP did not.
Networks can always be made more resilient. I'm not saying CCP did a horrible job, but you can fight DDOS attacks with precautions and redundancy.
Think of it this way. You could blame the Germans for gasing Allied troops in WWI, but it would be pretty much the fault of the Allied forces if they didn't start using gas masks.
Arguably its probably too expensive for CCP to make their systems completely redundant and have enough bandwidth to defeat a DDOS attack. The best solution is just to mitigate it and hand out compensation for the time lost on the consumers.
I mean their choice is too spend a buttload more on infrastructure or hand out compensation.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
398
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Posted - 2013.06.03 18:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
I don't think free SP are appropriate for events out of CCP's control, But I do think to quell the deafening noise from the cheap seats something tangible and expendable would be fun, IE a new 6 pack of Quafe Zero, or perhaps some creative Synth booster with unknown properties, could be DPS bonus could be a pink ship for 24 hours, kind of a Alice in the rabbit hole thing.
But no to SP, I am sure CCP has the ability to see the guys who's training expired during the unexpected DT and to accredit them accordingly. You my friend,-ádefy the whole theory of Natural Selection. |
Lita Alexandria
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
I'm not worried about encouraging the hacker by compensating us. The hacker is going to be compensated with 6x9 cell and a new friend that is looking to open him up to new experiences. |
Prince Sanguine
Hull Breach Inc. Double Tap.
2
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:00:00 -
[68] - Quote
This is why we can't have nice things! *hands everyone alcohol and hookers* |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
234
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
Mara Villoso wrote:It doesn't matter whose fault it is or why they did what they did. I subscribe, my subscription was interrupted, and I was kept from playing the game for an extended period of time. I don't care about skill points, but I definitely care about subscription time. Add into it that I was supposed to reup my monthly using PLEX yesterday, but I couldn't because the game was down, which means I paid real money for my next month of play time as a direct result of this event.
As a side note, somewhere in the dev text it mentions specifically the attack "took advantage of an exploit" to conduct the attack. That sounds a LOT like someone left a hole somewhere that was exploited.
You do realize that there is an option in your account management to re-activate your account for a short time in order for you to use a PLEX and thus make it fully active again, right?
Also: If you are an insider or if you just spend a lot of time, any complex system accepting outside calls is attackable. There is never 100% security in a system open to the world.
I don't care if they give us skill points. In the spirit of CCP they should probably create an 20-hours hourglass item reward or something equally useless.
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Cellita Nardieu
Dark Void Holdings
2
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:04:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jacob Muvila wrote: What happens if we get our accounts hacked? CCP doesn't reimburse us cus it's our job for proper security right? Well if there was a DDOS attack (I don't think there was) its CCP's fault for not taking proper security measures. We need to be and should be comped for this.
DoS attack is no risk about account informations. It's just like there is 100 000 cars with 10 000 per seconds more wanting to take the same street in the same time, when you arrive in the middle of that you can't pass. You can put a large highway, it won't still pass, even a landing way in JFK airport ... But in no case there is safety breach for the reason that nobody can access to the machine (the perfect firewall in a way).
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Jacob Muvila
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:04:00 -
[71] - Quote
Iosue wrote:i'm not a fan of CCP giving out SP for something like the servers being down while under attack. CCP took the correct action and we should all benefit from their time and effort in this regard. expecting additional compensation because they did the right thing is absurd and unwarranted. granted, i'd feel a bit different if they were compromised and my personal information was leaked, but that didn't happen. i would rather not be able to play eve for a day than have my personal details compromised because they were rushing to get the servers back online.
Guys kissing CCP's ass on the forums will not get you a damn thing. This entire thread is a kiss ass thread. It will not get you in any good standings with devs GMs CCP noone. They do not know who I am they do not know who you are they do not care who we are. They care about money and profits. Ass kissing will get you zero nada nothing at all people.
They are not going to read your post and be like oh look at this ass kisser maybe I should give them a prize. http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/03/eve-online-returns-after-ddos-attack-forced-server-offline/ Says that "During that down time, CCP discovered a vulnerability that it patched." So yea we need to be comped
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2586
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
I must say that the dichotomy of the 'SP is not important' to the 'SP is everything' crowds is quite amusing. Even more so that I see the same characters playing both sides depending on the thread.
Do people really think that the loss of a few SPs is going to affect their ability to play the game?
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Miss MaxxJaxX
Royal Dutch Secret Service
1
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:08:00 -
[73] - Quote
Set looooong skill suckerssss!!! This month was gameserverattackmonth again when you read a bit of news here and there.
Buckle up Dorothy!
I'm fully behind CCP on this, whatever happens. Someone is trying to steal from you or destroy our game for whatever reason. The standard insta-hate won't cut it this time, only to stand as one. Nothing is lost on my side, only a little bit of gametime I guess.
CCP handled correctly according to such a situation as this. |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
234
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:14:00 -
[74] - Quote
Quote:Guys kissing CCP's ass on the forums will not get you a damn thing. This entire thread is a kiss ass thread. It will not get you in any good standings with devs GMs CCP noone. They do not know who I am they do not know who you are they do not care who we are. They care about money and profits. Ass kissing will get you zero nada nothing at all people.
They already said they will come up with some form of compensation. So there is no need for kissing of any kind.
But while I think one can take it too far indeed, I think at least showing some appreciation towards CCP and the people working for CCP will help keep up the relationship between CCP and its players. Which - except for Monoclegate - has been quite good and special through the years. I could give you many examples of this. Of course they want to make revenue. They are a company, not a charity. But a company that mostly does care about its customers. And often beyond and above of what they would need to provide.
Actually yesterday I was happy to listen to EVE Radio, listen to the hilarious conspiracy theories and all the jokes that were made. It showed me that I belong to a gaming community that is both nasty ingame and - mostly - cool & adult otherwise.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4206
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:14:00 -
[75] - Quote
Jacob Muvila wrote:Iosue wrote:i'm not a fan of CCP giving out SP for something like the servers being down while under attack. CCP took the correct action and we should all benefit from their time and effort in this regard. expecting additional compensation because they did the right thing is absurd and unwarranted. granted, i'd feel a bit different if they were compromised and my personal information was leaked, but that didn't happen. i would rather not be able to play eve for a day than have my personal details compromised because they were rushing to get the servers back online.
Guys kissing CCP's ass on the forums will not get you a damn thing. This entire thread is a kiss ass thread. It will not get you in any good standings with devs GMs CCP noone. They do not know who I am they do not know who you are they do not care who we are. They care about money and profits. Ass kissing will get you zero nada nothing at all people. They are not going to read your post and be like oh look at this ass kisser maybe I should give them a prize. http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/03/eve-online-returns-after-ddos-attack-forced-server-offline/Says that "During that down time, CCP discovered a vulnerability that it patched." So yea we need to be comped Every system has vunerabilities that can be exploited, no matter how good your programmers are. All you can do is try to catch as many as possible before they are exploited, or fix them as quickly as possible afterwards.
The only pertinent parts of the article are these:
Quote:GÇ£We will be looking at ways to compensate players in both Eve and Dust for the outage and expect to announce what that compensation will be very soon.GÇ¥
That's all that really needs to be said. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ardetia
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:15:00 -
[76] - Quote
Whatever you do, don't compensate CCP. Don't listen to these whiners that have absolutely no clue what they are on about. Not to mention the side-effects of doing so, which obviously create a situation where someone will DDOS whenever they want some free SP.
Also, for those of you who don't understand why, either educate yourselves or shut up.
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K'rul Demelain
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
5
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:15:00 -
[77] - Quote
Doesn't matter what the EULA says in this situation. Whatever CCP decides to do in regards to compensation will be geared towards one thing only: customer service. IF they do nothing the old bitter vets will say "that's standard CCP, nothing to see here move on". However, the newbro who just subscribed or is in a trial will look at this event and think "wow this company doesn't care about my time or is unstable, why the hell should I give them my $$". Dust players likewise will look at this and think "why should I put any money in this incredibly unstable FPS if they can't even keep the servers up".
This is a customer service/marketing opportunity. They will do something to compensate to cover those later 2 factors because there is too big a risk of a bitter taste in the mouth of newbros and dusties. You don't need newbros or dusties quitting with the only thought "CCP can't keep the servers up and didn't care at all about the lost time". They don't need those people telling their friends not to play/try, by compensating for the lost time they instead create happy customers. Instead of a bitter newbro or dusty walking around trashing CCP/Servers they've created a free viral marketing point on how CCP is a company that cares about players and will do what they can to make things right. That is more important to CCP than the bitter vets here trying to argue how it's not CCP's fault, etc, etc,etc. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vendetta Syndicate
145
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:16:00 -
[78] - Quote
The sp give away I'm not sold on.
The reason for this is that it hurts soon to be new players. (( If only a little bit ))
CCP has spent a lot of effort of shrinking the gap between vets and new players over the years.
Giving away sp like this would be going backwards on that goal over the long term.
I just want my free in game hate that says: Booby prize?
If it happens again I'd like a shirt that says: got milk? |
Basileus
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:17:00 -
[79] - Quote
Freya Kaundur wrote:why not. i have seen people do much more for much less. Oh have you? Really? Be completely honest now.
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floating in space
University of Caille Gallente Federation
64
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:22:00 -
[80] - Quote
I'm just at a loss as to what kind of person begs and pleads for no compensation?
It just seems like omega-tier sycophantic behavior |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4206
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:25:00 -
[81] - Quote
floating in space wrote:I'm just at a loss as to what kind of person begs and pleads for no compensation?
It just seems like omega-tier sycophantic behavior Perhaps an honest one that doesn't want to be associated with self entitled beggars?
Doesn't matter either way, it's CCP's call and they've already indicated they will do some form of compensation... because they feel it is the right thing to do, not because they are obligated to. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
floating in space
University of Caille Gallente Federation
65
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:28:00 -
[82] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:floating in space wrote:I'm just at a loss as to what kind of person begs and pleads for no compensation?
It just seems like omega-tier sycophantic behavior Perhaps an honest one that doesn't want to be associated with self entitled beggars? Doesn't matter either way, it's CCP's call and they've already indicated they will do some form of compensation... because they feel it is the right thing to do, not because they are obligated to.
I didn't see anyone acting entitled, even when servers were down it seemed like a select group of people where already screaming "do not compensate" I find it so unnecessary and almost sickening. |
Paul Panala
Beyond the Shadows
14
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:29:00 -
[83] - Quote
Freya Kaundur wrote:CCP please do not in any form compensate for this attack. do what you can to fix it and defend against them. but giving compensation will just give any shady individual who plays eve the idea that they can send a ddos attack and get free stuff. the vocal few that are crying for free stuff. should realize that compensation would be a bad idea.
again i thank you for protecting our privacy and keeping us in the loop with the situation.
I don't think you know what a DDoS is. It is not something that someone runs on their basement computer. You need to have control over a hung number of computers to pull it off, not easy. You either need to have hundreds of thousands of people willing to follow you for a cause (like Anonymous) or have control over that number of computers you have been able to compromise (nearly impossible given the security that exists today with modern software). Either way, this isn't something someone can do because they are looking for skill points. |
Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
GRU Special Forces
115
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:29:00 -
[84] - Quote
Basileus wrote:Freya Kaundur wrote:why not. i have seen people do much more for much less. Oh have you? Really? Be completely honest now.
A friend of mine, several years ago now, changed everyone's grades in the school system to A+'s. He didn't do it for money, he simply did it because the IT technician boasted it couldn't be done.
It was an amusing week thereafter. People do things only for GÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑ and giggles though, that's for certain. I love to reload during a battle!-áThere's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver missile into a well greased chamber... |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Coldest Sea Sailing
323
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:35:00 -
[85] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:People need to read the EULA. I have no problem with CCP doing what it has to do in order to protect my information. Sony needs to pay attention and stop trying to give away free games when some hackers steal my cc info. Thats BS.
Thanks CCP.
^^^^^^^^ from the EULA: http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/
"NO WARRANTIES
The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.
CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.
While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures."
Some say recovery from a DDoS in the time CCP just did is pretty good.
I'm listening to-áBj+¦rk, playing EVE, eating fishsticks, and I'm cold....this is immersion gaming. |
Captian Darknipples
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:36:00 -
[86] - Quote
I lost a days worth of game play from no fault of my own. CCP is very punctual on payment due dates, you dont pay exactly within the due time you lose the ability to play. This being said i will be punctual on requesting compensation for my last time. All you suck ups can stop trying to speak for the rest of us. I especially get a kick out of you studs that make it a point to sign your name after every reply...Seriously get over yourself. |
Sudog Aonaran
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:38:00 -
[87] - Quote
I really don't care either way, I'm just hoping to get back to my home computer before the servers go down for the update. I had about 1 day and a few hours left when I went to bed on sunday night, servers running fine. Wake up planning to que up my long skills on 2 characters before I start working for 24 hours straight, servers down...luckily I'm in korea, so I should be able to log in when I get back to my room in about 3 hours, I hope. |
Vega Makutu
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
6
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
Yeah, I don't need to be compensated because some internet psychopath(s) forced your servers offline.
I really hope the person or people that did this get caught and punished though. That would be compensation enough. |
Rumpole Geten
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:39:00 -
[89] - Quote
Seems we have a thread full of people who love downtime. You know, you can simulate downtime by just unplugging your internet connection? Works a treat.
While you fellows get on with that people who paid money for a service that was down would like a refund. If you thinkj that makes me entitled I can sell you access to a game that never works if you like. No problem at all.
I do agree with the sentiment that skill points are not good for compensation. keep them, refund the cash. Or at a pinch I'll accept game time, but I want at least twice as much as was lost. That is to compensate for the inconvenience, not just the lost time.
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Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1244
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:41:00 -
[90] - Quote
The Launcher debacle was CCP's fault, so they compensated us.
The DDoS was the fault of the person or persons who made the attack on the servers.
I am all for free stuff when it is appropriate, but in this case I do not think that CCP are under any obligation to do so.
CCP deserve credit for how well they handled the situation providing updates. This is not a signature. |
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