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Astenion
Spiritus Draconis
26
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Posted - 2011.10.21 20:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
About damn time
Thoughts on this?
I personally think it's long overdue, but I commend him for sticking to his guns and following through with his pledge. The Iraqi government of course wanted them to stay in order to have someone else do their work for them but it seems he was having none of it, which I applaud.
It will be better for both countries. |
Lithalnas
Privateers Privateer Alliance
3
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Posted - 2011.10.21 22:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well political stuff is banned from the forums so I am not going to touch it with a ten foot poll.
My eleven foot poll says wait and see what happens. How to build a PC for EVE thread (by Akira T) http://eve-search.com/thread/1559734-0/page/1
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Astenion
Spiritus Draconis
26
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Posted - 2011.10.21 22:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not trying to make it political or anything, just relaying the news. I think we can share opinions without getting political, or at least I hope so. |
Citizen20100211442
Carebear Evolution AEQUITAS.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.21 22:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thats just very old news One Nation , One Race One Folk, One Faith! |
Astenion
Spiritus Draconis
26
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Posted - 2011.10.21 22:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
We have no way of knowing whether or not RP would've done what he claimed to do in the specific timeline in which he claimed to do it either.
That's the equivalent of asking Joe Schmoe on the street what to do. Argument holds no water. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2011.10.22 00:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
In other news: The number of security contractors in Iraq will increase.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first! |
Astenion
Spiritus Draconis
26
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Posted - 2011.10.22 01:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
We all knew that was going to happen. However, that's a CHOICE. They're paid craploads of money to do it and they're private corporations. It's no different than working the oil fields. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
60
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Posted - 2011.10.22 01:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Those solders are going somewhere else. Probably Pakistan or Iran.
But I expect to hear a lot of "hey, he got the troops out of Iraq!! Four more years!!!!1!" Meanwhile, we still have hundreds of bases overseas, still in Afghanistan, and whatever happens in Pakistan and Iran, I expect the media to be real quiet about it.
I don't know what's worse. The lying media sock puppets or the people who believe them.
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Astenion
Spiritus Draconis
26
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Posted - 2011.10.22 01:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
How would they go to either country? Are you saying they'll be based there or that they're going to attack those countries?
If it's the former, that's simply impossible as neither country will allow them to stay there. If it's the latter...well, let's hope it's not. At least in Pakistan's case.
EDIT: Ah, it's late. Misread what you wrote. Going to bed now. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
34
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Posted - 2011.10.22 02:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
The only reason it is happening now is because the Iraqis would not extend the status of forces agreement. |
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Pj Harvey
Ship spinners inc
1
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Posted - 2011.10.22 03:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
They'll probably need those soldiers so they can once again fumble about in the invasion of some other sovereign nation and get bled by insurgents bit by bit until they pull out after leaving a proxy government behind so they can then go on to yet another nation to buffoon through it and the cycle repeats until the middle east is under the control of America and Israel.
Personally I like to see Americans getting killed in the middle east, the Arabs are fighting an invader and I hope they win. |
KaarBaak
122
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Posted - 2011.10.22 03:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Astenion wrote:About damn timeThoughts on this? I personally think it's long overdue, but I commend him for sticking to his guns and following through with his pledge. The Iraqi government of course wanted them to stay in order to have someone else do their work for them but it seems he was having none of it, which I applaud. It will be better for both countries.
I too applaud this action. However, you seem to have things backward: Obama/DoD wanted to keep troops there, but Iraq had the gall to insist that foreign troops operating in their country would be subject to Iraqi law for certain offenses. US couldn't take the risk, as it's soldiers have a track record of **** and murder of civilians in host countries and would prefer the cover of military trials over foreign civilian courts.
TL;DR: US wanted to stay, Iraq said follow our laws or leave. US leaves. Politicians spin it. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.10.22 07:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:The only reason it is happening now is because the Iraqis would not extend the status of forces agreement. Or this is a maneuver to win over more electors. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first! |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.10.22 07:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Who is ready for Iraq-Iran War number 2? Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first! |
VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2011.10.22 09:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Astenion wrote:I personally think it's long overdue, but I commend him for sticking to his guns and following through with his pledge.
Adunh Slavy wrote:The only reason it is happening now...
Pj Harvey wrote:They'll probably need those soldiers so they can once again fumble about in the invasion of some other sovereign nation...
KaarBaak wrote:I too applaud this action.
This thread is hillarious.
A bunch of arm chair pundits who think they're talking about something with consequence by pointing out the same man said the same thing he's said several times before and then didn't do it.
It doesn't matter what mitigating circumstance you personally put under the microscope at any given time. You are not privy to his meetings or inner thoughts. If he lied then, was wrong then, or changed his mind THEN... he may very well lie, err, or reconsider again. No reason for this to be anything but bird cage liner regardless of your political position.
At least the people who assume he's lying are following a trend. You guys? Even if you're right and it happens, it's by accident. For every 'fact' you think you know there are plenty you must reasonably admit you do not when it comes to the President's knowledge and agenda vs yours.
Suddenly believing this is 'news', like 33rd time's the charm or something? Wow. There aren't enough islands left for this many Giligans. |
Astenion
Spiritus Draconis
26
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Posted - 2011.10.22 10:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Bush Administration already had set the timeline for the end of 2011 and Obama just followed through. The US wanted to stay as long as they had immunity. Iraqis said no. The US pulls out. There's no secret agenda here and nothing at all privileged. You obviously have no idea what a SOFA is or how it works. There has always been immunity in a warzone and to actually suggest that there shouldn't be is laughable at best. If a government requests troops in their country, they don't say, "Yes, we want you here but our courts supersede your military justice system." Anyone who would ever agree to that is a ******* idiot. |
Astenion
Spiritus Draconis
26
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Posted - 2011.10.22 10:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pj Harvey wrote:They'll probably need those soldiers so they can once again fumble about in the invasion of some other sovereign nation and get bled by insurgents bit by bit until they pull out after leaving a proxy government behind so they can then go on to yet another nation to buffoon through it and the cycle repeats until the middle east is under the control of America and Israel.
Personally I like to see Americans getting killed in the middle east, the Arabs are fighting an invader and I hope they win.
Troll fail. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
34
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Posted - 2011.10.22 12:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
VKhaun Vex wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:The only reason it is happening now... This thread is hillarious. A bunch of arm chair pundits ...
Sorry doood but Leon Penetta, Head of DOD, just last week was attempting to get the SoF extended with the Iraqis. They said no, so now thee troops are out. Maybe you should pick up a newspaper from time to time. |
Khors
El Barco Pirata
0
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Posted - 2011.10.22 13:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: I don't know what's worse. The lying media sock puppets or the people who believe them.
The puppets that look at opposing media channels and believe that instead. |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
5
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Posted - 2011.10.22 14:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Never should have gone there in the first place.
But then the rest of the world would not be aware how fun waterboarding and building human pyramids can be..... Unbanned since 2011.10.20. |
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SpaceSquirrels
Scordite Excavating Xenaphobe
9
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Posted - 2011.10.22 15:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Iraq ever pay off it's war debt to the other arab nations from the Iran Iraq war? And the war with Kuwait? |
Froz3nEcho Sarain
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
115
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Posted - 2011.10.22 15:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
I really don't understand why CCP doesn't want us to discuss politics. I mean this is the right section on the forums and this isn't kindergarten anymore. Iraq is sooooo last decennia... Pakistan, Serbia and Iran is were the action is. ~ When everything fades away, an echo is the only sound that will remain ~ -á-á~ Chaos is a name for any order that produces confusion in our minds ~ |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
60
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Posted - 2011.10.22 16:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:The only reason it is happening now is because the Iraqis would not extend the status of forces agreement.
The Obama administration GÇö as itGÇÖs telling you itself GÇö was willing to keep troops in Iraq after the 2011 deadline (indeed, they werenGÇÖt just willing, but eager). The only reason they arenGÇÖt is because the Iraqi Government refused to agree that U.S. soldiers would be immunized if they commit serious crimes, such as gunning down Iraqis without cause . As we know, the U.S. is not and must never be subject to the rule of law when operating on foreign soil (and its government and owners must never be subject to the rule of law in any context). |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
34
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Posted - 2011.10.22 17:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
US Gov hasn't been following the rule of law inside its own borders for years. Sure won't follow them outside. IMF has its outpost in Iraq now though, so sure they're not too upset, besides, now they own Libya too. Banner day for the bankers. |
Zyck
10
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Posted - 2011.10.22 23:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yes all that Libyan oil that was before going to Europe will now, thankfully, go to...Europe. |
Mohr Cowbell
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
86
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Posted - 2011.10.22 23:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm glad he had the balls to go ahead and do this. I think the only people benefiting from the Iraq deployment now are the defense contractors, the locals providing services to the bases, and (believe it or not) the troops who want that hazardous duty pay...
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Astenion
Spiritus Draconis
29
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Posted - 2011.10.23 08:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hazardous duty pay is nothing. It's like 150 extra bucks a month. It's the tax free pay that people don't mind. However, it still isn't enough to make people WANT to go downrange. It's not like European militaries who basically bribe their soldiers into going downrange by paying them exorbitant amounts of money, things like 30,000 euros in 6 months.
No, there is definitely no money in going downrange. You may get enough to put a down payment on a car or something, but no one's buying houses. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
36
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Posted - 2011.10.23 08:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mohr Cowbell wrote:I'm glad he had the balls to go ahead and do this. I think the only people benefiting from the Iraq deployment now are the defense contractors, the locals providing services to the bases, and (believe it or not) the troops who want that hazardous duty pay...
He didn't "do this" the Iraqis and Bush did this. The status of forces agrement was set to expire as had been agreed to before Obama took office. Last week Leon Penetta, head of the department of defense, publicly stated that the current administration was trying to extend the SoF. Obama was trying to stay longer. |
VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2011.10.23 09:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Sorry doood but Leon Penetta, Head of DOD, just last week was attempting to get the SoF extended with the Iraqis. They said no, so now thee troops are out. Maybe you should pick up a newspaper from time to time.
Because that is THE FIRST TIME EVER that anyone has put something in a newspaper to suggest the troops should come home.
I reiterate. Even if you are correct and the troops come home on this time table exactly, it is BY ACCIDENT that you are correct. Nothing new has happened. You are still not privy to all the knowledge and machinations of the president's position and there is a clear trend, no... CYCLE... of this promise being made, celebrated, slowly backed off from, and being made again. You should be ashamed of your gulibility that you will celebtrate Obama or Bush for 'doing this' two months before it's done. |
Astenion
Spiritus Draconis
29
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Posted - 2011.10.23 09:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
I don't think you realize that it's not up to the President; it's up to the Iraqis. The Iraqis are forcing the troops to come home because they won't renew their immunity.
You're being gullible if you think the President still has the power to keep them there. It's not up to him; they're effectively being evicted. Do you think Obama's just going to ignore them or something? |
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