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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
391
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Posted - 2013.06.07 03:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP has renamed J140208 to J170376 in Odyssey. This is the only system affected.
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? |
ace face
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.06.07 03:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:CCP has renamed J140208 to J170376 in Odyssey. This is the only system affected.
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?
cuss they hate you!
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Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1291
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Posted - 2013.06.07 04:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Perhaps it's lore-related.
Pfffft ha ha ha nah that'd be just silly. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
125
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Posted - 2013.06.07 06:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Something bad happened on 14.02.2008, and they renamed the system out of respect? |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
391
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Posted - 2013.06.07 07:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Something bad happened on 14.02.2008, and they renamed the system out of respect?
Nothing from what I can see |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
732
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 07:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hmmm interesting... 3 years 6 expansions: incursions, the venture, 3 BCGÇÖs and 3 destroyers... Is this all you are capable of CCP? |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
487
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Posted - 2013.06.07 07:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
One of the devs secretly lives there and was born on 17.03.1976? . |
Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
46
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Posted - 2013.06.07 08:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Did J1340+6 or J1259+0 ever get renamed? Seems like favoritism to me. |
Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
185
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Posted - 2013.06.07 10:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nix Anteris wrote:Did J1340+6 or J1259+0 ever get renamed? Seems like favoritism to me. They did. |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1294
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Posted - 2013.06.07 11:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Durzel wrote:Nix Anteris wrote:Did J1340+6 or J1259+0 ever get renamed? Seems like favoritism to me. They did.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
6389
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Posted - 2013.06.07 11:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is by design and not a mistake. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Grizzly Kreyszig
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
6
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Posted - 2013.06.07 11:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design and not a mistake. Why did you change the name btw? |
Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
46
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Posted - 2013.06.07 11:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tinfoil hat time.
There is more meaning in the locus than previously thought. The race is on to decode wormhole loci and find the meanings hidden within! |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1294
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Posted - 2013.06.07 11:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
That has been a long-time effort since the old style forums. I remember someone compared the J-sigs to times on a 24-hour clock and noted a whole section missing. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
271
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Posted - 2013.06.07 13:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
^^ They definitely relate to positional coordinates (or some kind of hierarchy) in some way. |
Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
46
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Posted - 2013.06.07 13:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:That has been a long-time effort since the old style forums. I remember someone compared the J-sigs to times on a 24-hour clock and noted a whole section missing.
Interesting, never heard that theory, did a quick statistical analysis.
The last 4 digits are highly indicative of times (minutes and seconds).
digit 1: 7/8 systems begin with a 1, the remainder 2 digit 2: abnormal distribution 0-7, 1 is high, 6 is low, 7 is lower digit 3: seemingly random distribution 0-5 digit 4: seemingly random distribution 0-9 digit 5: seemingly random distribution 0-5 - 1x 7, 2x 9 digit 6: seemingly random distribution 0-9
There are some anomalies in digit 5 - I believe the 2x 9s are the systems that used to have a + in their name, which leaves the 7 as a real anomaly. (170376 look familiar?)
Digit 2 is particularly strange, it's not even a curve, with 7 being present only 110x out of the ~2500 systems, and 1 being present 458x
Also noticed J1226-0, which I don't think has been renamed yet.
For these anomalies to occur in the 5th digit, there must be some sort of encoding going on, and not just picking random numbers ;) |
MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc W-Space
110
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Posted - 2013.06.07 13:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
oh just fine, change one meaningless set of numbers to a different meaningless set of numbers and make people go make changes to tools. In sum, players making tools would have to spend more time updating their tools, then it took you to change it. Thank you for keeping us busy. |
Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal The Mockers AO
1275
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Posted - 2013.06.07 14:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
J coordinates are used to indicate a position in space.
According to a video with Torfi, they used the J coordinates of Quasars to indicate the proximity of the system to a quasar.
The Sloan Digital Sky Survey lets you search by SQL function their databases::
http://cas.sdss.org/dr7/en/tools/search/x_sql.asp
Quote:select top 100000 specObjId, SDSSName
FROM Dr5quasarcatalog
WHERE SDSSName like '100001%'
The above query searches the DR5 Quasar catalog for SDSSNames (locus) that start with 100001 (% is wildcards, since a full J Coordinate is more than 6 digits, we can't know the exact object the locus is targeted at)
So, the query above would put out :
specObjID --------------------J coordinate 141243312320282624100001.44+024844.6 216960282101022720100001.81+594344.2 216960282352680960100001.06+601432.0 216960283254456320100001.13+610249.5 265375787933237248100001.00+453046.5
Then you can cross reference that with the explore tool :
This would be one of the 5 objects in the vicinity of J100001 coordinates. Replace the sid=#### with the specObjID http://cas.sdss.org/astro/en/tools/explore/obj.asp?sid=141243312320282624
That's about as far as I got in my attempt to relate J Coordinates to Real life positions. I was going to go further and attempt to identify some of the objects.
Going further with the topic of this thread ::
J170376 doesn't have any catalog entries. J140208 has 4
361921788885598208140208.87+462414.4 (Galaxy) 361921788931735552140208.10+470111.1 (Star) 470574235836743680140208.47+485209.7 (Star) 517580648571994112140208.94+354917.1 (Star)
Have fun. Where I am. |
Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
46
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Posted - 2013.06.07 16:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
That explains where the + and - came from. "Parsing accidents"
I was just thinking the 0-59 ranges could be arcminutes/seconds rather than times... |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
392
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 16:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:J coordinates are used to indicate a position in space. According to a video with Torfi in a Russian Basement i ( seems legit), they used the J coordinates of Quasars to indicate the proximity of the system to a quasar. The Sloan Digital Sky Survey lets you search by SQL function their databases:: http://cas.sdss.org/dr7/en/tools/search/x_sql.aspQuote:select top 100000 specObjId, SDSSName
FROM Dr5quasarcatalog
WHERE SDSSName like '100001%'
The above query searches the DR5 Quasar catalog for SDSSNames (locus) that start with 100001 (% is wildcards, since a full J Coordinate is more than 6 digits, we can't know the exact object the locus is targeted at) So, the query above would put out : specObjID --------------------J coordinate 141243312320282624100001.44+024844.6 216960282101022720100001.81+594344.2 216960282352680960100001.06+601432.0 216960283254456320100001.13+610249.5 265375787933237248100001.00+453046.5 Then you can cross reference that with the explore tool : This would be one of the 5 objects in the vicinity of J100001 coordinates. Replace the sid=#### with the specObjID http://cas.sdss.org/astro/en/tools/explore/obj.asp?sid=141243312320282624That's about as far as I got in my attempt to relate J Coordinates to Real life positions. I was going to go further and attempt to identify some of the objects. Going further with the topic of this thread :: J170376 doesn't have any catalog entries. J140208 has 4 361921788885598208140208.87+462414.4 (Galaxy) 361921788931735552140208.10+470111.1 (Star) 470574235836743680140208.47+485209.7 (Star) 517580648571994112140208.94+354917.1 (Star) Have fun.
The fact that the Jsigs are in real life database means nothing. The systems all have their own positions in game. They form regions and they form almost a galaxy that looks like a flower. |
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Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Bitten.
183
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Posted - 2013.06.08 03:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
this is the beginning of the end!!!11
time for another layer of tinfoil on my loki |
D'Angelo Barksdale
He's got a pineapple on his head
4
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Posted - 2013.06.08 07:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:
The fact that the Jsigs are in real life database means nothing. The systems all have their own positions in game. They form regions and they form almost a galaxy that looks like a flower.
What type of flower cos i'm alergic to some? |
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 08:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design and not a mistake.
It is also by design that capsuleers can light cyno's in WH's. |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1299
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 09:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Adriana Nolen wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design and not a mistake. It is also by design that capsuleers can light cyno's in WH's.
I dunno about you, but I use that fact to troll people. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
105
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 22:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:Adriana Nolen wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design and not a mistake. It is also by design that capsuleers can light cyno's in WH's. I dunno about you, but I use that fact to troll people.
I hear it's getting used a lot by invaders beating their cynochest over the ruins of a slaughtered capital. It's called a victory-cyno. |
Phorneus
Vocare Ad Regnum
3
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Posted - 2013.06.09 01:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
It looks like some sort of eastern egg... |
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
187
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Project_Atlas#Locus_Signatures
JHHMMSS+/-DDMMSS: it's Right Ascension and Declination, allegedly for quasars in the vicinity of the w-space system, according to T0rfiFrans. There's a ton of assumptions you have to make about New Eden reference points verses Earth's, such as that we are using the same equinox of reference and reference plane (the J2000 first point of Aries and the equatorial plane of Earth) and that New Eden and the Milky Way are close enough for the RA/Dec angle measurements to be comparable.
As for these images and these images, they are basically mined from the data dump, and CCP does not consider them to be canonical.
CCP T0rfiFrans wrote:...the location of the wormhole is actually the location of the nearest quasars, meaning that the wormholes are scattered all around the universe in different galaxies... Without full and proper declinations for all the systems it would impossible to better than this for a map of where the systems are.
As for J170376, it does not follow the pattern.
CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design and not a mistake. Are you sure? That second '7' looks like a mistake to me. In the J2000 coordinate system, this number is invalid.
Here's a catalog of quasars (big list), index here.
*note: It is common practice to truncate a leading zero in the seconds columns (for some reason) so in many lists J124508 would look more like J12458 (JHHMMS). |
Lexar Mundi
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
57
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Posted - 2013.06.09 11:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Something bad happened on 14.02.2008, and they renamed the system out of respect? There was a shooting in the states but not sure if that is the reason. |
Nivin Sajjad
Resurrection Ventures Un.Bound
2
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Posted - 2013.06.12 19:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
J1226-0. That is all. |
Asarles
Hard Knocks Inc.
3
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Posted - 2013.06.12 21:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
This happened, most likely the name was changed IMO. |
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Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1992
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 23:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Asarles wrote:This happened, most likely the name was changed IMO. yeah last time the did something like that they named a planet in a WH to the name of the volcano that exploded in iceland so sounds about right. |
Sith1s Spectre
Sky Fighters Mass Overload
145
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Posted - 2013.06.12 23:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
I think Mess is just grumpy that he now needs to make lots of coding changes to Siggy :P CCP please consider hats as a clothing option for our spaceship barbies.-á
Artist impression of what this could potentially be http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t66/ROBC5Z06/sithsig_zps86971c83.jpg |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1318
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 04:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Asarles wrote:This happened, most likely the name was changed IMO.
Apocrypha went live in 2010, and they only now decided to change the name of a wormhole? Did anyone even do any research and care that it was a date of a school shooting most of us weren't even aware of? http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
488
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 08:02:00 -
[34] - Quote
A shooting with five victims, that happens about every single day in the USA. Implausible that they renamed it because of this one, unless one of the victims was related to someone at CCP. And if that were the case, why do it now after 5 years?
Nah, must be something else. . |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
184
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Posted - 2013.06.14 00:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
Which way is this tinfoil hat supposed to go anyway? |
Bronya Boga
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
118
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 03:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
Soooooo.....why the rename? IM DIEING TO KNOW! Host of podcast Down The Pipe www.downthepipe-wh.com Podcast Public Channel is DTP Podcast @drverikan on twitter [email protected] |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1328
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Posted - 2013.06.14 04:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
chris elliot wrote:Which way is this tinfoil hat supposed to go anyway?
ONLY A SPY WOULD ASK THAT QUESTION!!!!! http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Matthias Vilmet
Parallax Shift The Periphery
16
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Posted - 2013.06.14 16:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:Chris Winter wrote:Something bad happened on 14.02.2008, and they renamed the system out of respect? Nothing from what I can see
Hmmm... you guys are reading it wrong.
International Format is YEAR, MONTH, DAY
February 2nd, 2014. It's a release date. World of Darkness maybe??? Next patch? |
Rengas
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
171
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
Matthias Vilmet wrote:Messoroz wrote:Chris Winter wrote:Something bad happened on 14.02.2008, and they renamed the system out of respect? Nothing from what I can see Hmmm... you guys are reading it wrong. International Format is YEAR, MONTH, DAY February 2nd, 2014. It's a release date. World of Darkness maybe??? Next patch? Date that CCP pay the winners of NEO??? |
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
0
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Posted - 2013.06.17 16:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
I still think the j-sigs are there for cyno mapping. |
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Shoo Dae
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.07.02 16:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
The locus signatures have been one of my favorite mysteries in Eve and I'm wondering if we are finally going to get to the bottom of things with this change.
I wrote this Evelopedia article a few years ago and it is somewhat out of date by now:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Locus
The short version is that the locus breaks down to HH:MM:SS. Interesting to note that the new locus J170376 breaks the mold as there are not 76 seconds in a minute... I wonder what that could mean?
As for J1340+6 or J1259+0, does anyone know what those were renamed to?
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Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
395
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 17:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
Shoo Dae wrote:The locus signatures have been one of my favorite mysteries in Eve and I'm wondering if we are finally going to get to the bottom of things with this change. I wrote this Evelopedia article a few years ago and it is somewhat out of date by now: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/LocusThe short version is that the locus breaks down to HH:MM:SS. Interesting to note that the new locus J170376 breaks the mold as there are not 76 seconds in a minute... I wonder what that could mean? As for J1340+6 or J1259+0, does anyone know what those were renamed to?
They just had their missing digit added in. They were renamed a year ago. J1340+6 -> J134096, J1259+0 -> J125990 I believe but I could be wrong. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
641
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Posted - 2013.07.02 19:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
So. If they do in fact have locations plotted relative to each other, I wouldn't be surprised if it's because of that whole stargate-building thing CCP wants to do. I wouldn't be surprised if both K-space and W-space end up having a lot of systems that players can jump to with exploratory vessels, build gates, and expaaaand... |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
395
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 22:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:So. If they do in fact have locations plotted relative to each other, I wouldn't be surprised if it's because of that whole stargate-building thing CCP wants to do. I wouldn't be surprised if both K-space and W-space end up having a lot of systems that players can jump to with exploratory vessels, build gates, and expaaaand...
All wspace systems have coordinates already, its in the database dump. |
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
190
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 23:10:00 -
[45] - Quote
These coordinates are apocryphal though: they aren't the "real" (in the lore) coordinates. They're where they are only for technical reasons. |
subtle turtle
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
130
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 04:03:00 -
[46] - Quote
Clearly this is a HL3 teaser. CCP and Valve are one and the same! Gabe Himlar Newell Petursson is feeding us hints! |
Shoo Dae
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 06:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
Nivin Sajjad wrote:J1226-0. That is all.
Hmm. Looks like J1226-0 is still getting API data in Dotlan maps...
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/J1226-0
CCP has had plenty of opportunity to rename it by now. Why not fix it unless it's meant to stick out?
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Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
395
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 19:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
Shoo Dae wrote:Nivin Sajjad wrote:J1226-0. That is all. Hmm. Looks like J1226-0 is still getting API data in Dotlan maps... http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/J1226-0CCP has had plenty of opportunity to rename it by now. Why not fix it unless it's meant to stick out?
It has been renamed. Dotlan just never updated their database. It doesn't matter because the API uses a solar system ID that never changes instead of the name. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
395
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 19:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Shoo Dae wrote:Nivin Sajjad wrote:J1226-0. That is all. Hmm. Looks like J1226-0 is still getting API data in Dotlan maps... http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/J1226-0CCP has had plenty of opportunity to rename it by now. Why not fix it unless it's meant to stick out?
It has been renamed. Dotlan just never updated their database. It doesn't matter because the API uses a solar system ID that never changes instead of the name.
It is now J122610 |
Shoo Dae
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:Shoo Dae wrote:Nivin Sajjad wrote:J1226-0. That is all. Hmm. Looks like J1226-0 is still getting API data in Dotlan maps... http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/J1226-0CCP has had plenty of opportunity to rename it by now. Why not fix it unless it's meant to stick out? It has been renamed. Dotlan just never updated their database. It doesn't matter because the API uses a solar system ID that never changes instead of the name. It is now J122610
Hmm. Ok thanks for the info Messoroz. I'll update the wiki page once they let allow editing again.
Given that you've been tracking the locus "name changes" what do you think this is all about?
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Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
395
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Posted - 2013.07.04 05:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
Shoo Dae wrote:Messoroz wrote:Shoo Dae wrote:Nivin Sajjad wrote:J1226-0. That is all. Hmm. Looks like J1226-0 is still getting API data in Dotlan maps... http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/J1226-0CCP has had plenty of opportunity to rename it by now. Why not fix it unless it's meant to stick out? It has been renamed. Dotlan just never updated their database. It doesn't matter because the API uses a solar system ID that never changes instead of the name. It is now J122610 Hmm. Ok thanks for the info Messoroz. I'll update the wiki page once they let allow editing again. Given that you've been tracking the locus "name changes" what do you think this is all about?
Eh, there's not so secret reasons I track the changes but nothing to do with lore or me caring about CCP's whatever plan. Gotta keep things operational. |
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
190
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 06:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
I on the other hand have been tracking the lore, and I suspect it's a case of left hand (content team) not knowing what right hand (lore team) is doing. This type of thing is not unheard of with CCP, for example "marketing" made the Eve Universe trailer that was riddled with lore inconsistencies... That or CCP is being either purposefully or accidentally obtuse about how quasars loci work (and 9s and 7s where only a 0-5 should be supports this). RA without Dec is basically useless, meaning that no one can actually use the wormhole names to make a sky map of their true locations. |
Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
69
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 10:58:00 -
[53] - Quote
@Faulx, you're probably right. Detracts from the sci-fi feel somewhat, but in reality the change has little bearing or meaning. |
Shoo Dae
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.07.06 01:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
Faulx, I think you are correct in that it is probably a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing (or has done). The wormhole locus system originated back in the days of CCP Dropbear and I'm speculating that dev team at that time had plans for wormhole space that were never implemented and then key people (including Dropbear) left the company, so some sense of direction was lost. I remember reading forum comments by CCP Dropbear that a lot of the details in wormhole space were not just fluff but that the in game lore actually "meant something" and these were clues for us to follow. Given the direction of the current teams, I believe whatever was intended by Dropbear and his contemporaries was abandoned, at least for a time. Maybe this latest locus name change is a signal of something going on behind the scenes. Otherwise, why change it?
Your comments regarding the RA and dec are spot on and I think that might be exactly the point. The locus signatures aren't meant to be used in the way we would use them in "the real world" but they do represent something meaningful... otherwise why not just have random numbers? They may not represent spatial coordinates, but something else. At least I hope they do, otherwise I am wasting my time. And that's a pretty good possibility too.
What keeps me interested is this: Even though the loci are unusable as a traditional navigation system, they do fit a pattern with a few exceptions. What is it about the exceptions that we are supposed to understand? Are these renamed loci some place special to which we are supposed to travel or are they keys to unlocking a pattern regarding all of the loci?
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JAG Fox
GunStars
60
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:18:00 -
[55] - Quote
Wow.. I love space nerds! -áFox Pin-up
Kisses!Foxie. |
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