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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:06:00 - [271] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/11/2005 11:06:55 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Rodj Blake A cat once scratched me when I was in Dartford. That animal was evil, and I still have nightmares about it today. I had to have a tetanus shot. Does that mean that I can petition against the Krazed Killer Kitty Kats from Kent? I had a nightmare about Blake's 7 once, I'm petitioning both of us Rodj. I bet that you enjoyed your dreams about being Servelan's prisoner though... Anyway, it's a known fact that it was Roj Blake in the series, therefore I have no connection to him. Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:10:00 - [272] Originally by: Aelius I got me wrong Avon. There are ways and "ways" for protest, affecting people not responsible for CCP/GM's actions (ie: other players) is the wrong course of action. My protest aimed CCP/GM's alone, hurting them where they care the most, their wallet. Others should do the same. S4 had the HUGE majority of EVE's comunity along side with them. Doing such actions only hurt the players that WERE supporting them against a very bad call from CCP/GM's. I hope i cleared that out. Even if the servers crashed as a direct consequence of 4S's actions alone (which would require them to be in an empty system if you think about it), you still can't say the crashed the servers. Unless they knew that their actions would definately crash the servers, and it was their sole aim, any such accusations are unfounded. Protest and disruption go hand in hand, but I am sure that crashing the server was not the aim. As someone already said, this is a convenient was for CCP to scapegoat 4S and turn opinion against them. They are probably hoping everyone will now forget the origins of the problem, and CCP can walk away blameless. Spin4tw ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:11:00 - [273] Originally by: Rodj Blake I bet that you enjoyed your dreams about being Servelan's prisoner though... So true. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Jiggy	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:14:00 - [274] 4S is just a national phrase in Serbia that means roughly "only unity saves the Serbs", its also a symbol with 4Cs on a cross on the Serbian national flag.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:16:00 - [275] Originally by: Kalsius Dakalsai bla bla subsection thinghy law thinghy bla bla You realise that everyone in Eve is by letter of the eula supposed to know that boomark copying directly affects the server performance. Instajump bookmarks to the letter of the eula are also an exploit. So, would that not mean that anyone coppyiong large amounts of instajump bookmarks in eve should be banned for deliberately lagging out the server during the prepartion of an exploit ? Oh wait, yes it would. Luckily, most of the time people know when things dont make sense. This whole mess doesn't, hence the umpteen pages of posts.
Dr Slaughter	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:19:00 - [276] Originally by: Kevorkian Edited by: Kevorkian on 08/11/2005 23:27:05it's not a racist symbol and it's meaningless You said it. Now if S4 or anyone else has the INTENT to be racist that's another matter isn't it? From everything we're reading it was not their intent to be racist or upset anyone by their choise of a name.
Santiac	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:19:00 - [277] Originally by: Baun Edited by: Baun on 09/11/2005 00:48:45 Originally by: Santiac The actions taken by 4S, no matter how offended they might have felt, was not the correct conduct either, there was no reason to bring this to the majority of the community. Whether or not you agree with what was done in game should be independent of whether you agree with CCP's decision to change 4S's name. Quote: But when all things are said and done, i am still glad that this has become a discussable subject, preventing further mistakes from happening in the future. :) Its nice that we can discuss this (though how pathetic is it that we consider it a boon to be able to talk freely about how a corporation has acted in a racist manner?), but I don't see how this will prevent future issues of the same sort. This happened without warning or initial explanation. There was no due process or chance for input from the corporations. If there had been then maybe CCP could have avoided their transformation into inconsistent, confused PC zealots. My opinion on both cases are independent of each other, no matter if CCP were right or wrong i do not condone 4S's course of action. Furthermore, i only support CCP if the case is, that 4S's corp name is directly and without a doubt linked to the real life group/organisation/nationalism, but that doesn't change the fact that the age of 4S corp should have granted them amnesty of some sort, simply because they obviously had not encountered any problems for the 2,5 years up untill now. :) As for how it could possibly prevent this from happening again? Perhaps people will think twice before taking as altering an action as they did (both sides), now that they know all sides will suffer the consequences. ________________________________________ <insert clever/witty comment here>
Aelius	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:30:00 - [278] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Aelius I got me wrong Avon. There are ways and "ways" for protest, affecting people not responsible for CCP/GM's actions (ie: other players) is the wrong course of action. My protest aimed CCP/GM's alone, hurting them where they care the most, their wallet. Others should do the same. S4 had the HUGE majority of EVE's comunity along side with them. Doing such actions only hurt the players that WERE supporting them against a very bad call from CCP/GM's. I hope i cleared that out. Even if the servers crashed as a direct consequence of 4S's actions alone (which would require them to be in an empty system if you think about it), you still can't say the crashed the servers. Unless they knew that their actions would definately crash the servers, and it was their sole aim, any such accusations are unfounded. Protest and disruption go hand in hand, but I am sure that crashing the server was not the aim. As someone already said, this is a convenient was for CCP to scapegoat 4S and turn opinion against them. They are probably hoping everyone will now forget the origins of the problem, and CCP can walk away blameless. Spin4tw I don't forget the the origins of the problem. CCP/GM's are to blaim for starting this. And i'm not accusing 4S for crashing the servers, i never wrote that! What i sayed was that they tried to induce LAG in an already overloaded system, thus affecting other fellow players, some of those that perhaps were with them against this CCP's mistake. After more consideration i decided to keep my protest, because 4S or not 4S, CCP still imposed some political views upon us all.
Khan Age	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:32:00 - [279] Edited by: Khan Age on 09/11/2005 11:32:47 actually the more I think about this, the more I agree with Avons comments (even if his name is probably against the eula too!!! but then how far do you take it?) so err yeah, what avon said.
DoctorGonzo	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:33:00 - [280] I've read through all 10 pages of this now and Baun has this pretty well summed up on page 5 to be honest. My major problem with this is CCP's overall handling of the situation and how they have come across on the forums. I think they now have three options: 1) Give 4s their name back, apologise to them and the community for their handling of the situation. 2) Change every player and every corps name that doesn't comply with their rather flaky EULA. 3) Keep the current situation and stand by their knee-jerk reaction. I think I know what the majority of player would like to see, it's just whether CCP have the gumption to stand up and be counted or not. I know full well though that the conversations in Iceland right now will be damage limitation on player numbers and long term revenue streams. Get Your BoB Protection Kit Here

Avon	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:34:00 - [281] Edited by: Avon on 09/11/2005 11:35:03 Originally by: Khan Age actually the more I think about this, the more I agree with Avons comments (even if his name is probably against the eula too!!!) so err yeah, what avon said. Yup, my name is a character from a sci-fi series, and a make of car tyre, and the name of a huge cosmetics organisation. Still, if the devs ask I'll just tell them that it is "Nova" spelt backwards - it is clear that honesty doesn't pay. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
w0rmy	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:36:00 - [282] A corp named directly after a band, a band which advocates hate crimes, and Often sin gs about Killing Cops OK!!!!! A corp named after National Pride BAD BAD BAD EVILL!!!!!! Does someone want to hand these guys a clue.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:37:00 - [283] Originally by: Avon Well, if I had wound the bloke up enough to make him throw the brick I would only have myself to blame. Capishe? Being wound up is no excise for this sort of behaviour. If people crashed the server every time something or someone in Eve wound them up, the server would never be up at all. Originally by: Avon EDIT: Besides, don't CCP pride themselves on the fact that they just produce the tools, the players produce the content? What is wrong with having a protest in a game. Is it any worse than a war, or murder, or piracy? Having a protest isn't the issue. If they had just congregated, chanted in local for a bit and gone away again, that would be a protest. As soon as those shuttles were dumped, it stopped being a protest and became an attack on the server. CCP provides the tools, but the players have a responsibility to use them sensibly. Players that show they are unable to do exersise that responsibility should be removed. Originally by: Avon Peaceful protest at that. Again, as soon as those shuttles were dropped, it stopped being peaceful and became an attack on the server. What they did closely resembles a DOS attack. The only difference between this and a normal DOS attack is that they exploited an in-game mechanic to generate the excessive traffic levels. You can do anything. But you can't do everything.
Muthsera	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:37:00 - [284] Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Edited by: StOrM ViPeR on 09/11/2005 11:18:15 I've read all pages now , and am still unsure. What is 4-S ? I Know SAS intimitly due to various child hood dreams, intensive research and an 6 year stint in the army. but still am clueless after 9 pages of replies as to what 4-S actually is. Are they the serbian equivalence of the IRA ? or have i got it totally wrong ? Could some one please, IN A NUTSHELL bring me to light. One thing is for sure, That everyone participating has been wrong in the whole charade. (from CCPs Actions to The Shuttle fiasco) Serbian slogan. A slogan that have been used by serbs during the civil war. And it's tied to the national flag. It's also a slogan that is tied to the verius acts done in the name of the serbs now standing trail in hague. SoonÖ
Ada Riklova	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:38:00 - [285] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Ada Riklova It's on the official flag of the Serbian republic for crying out loud.. It's not a nationalistic symbol. It's a national symbol! Are they not allowed to be what they are? They certainly shouldn't be; just as any corp calling itself "United Kingdom Pilots" shouldn't be allowed either. IRL references aren't welcome here; this is a game based in fantasy, for crying out loud. You're saying that "Celt" is not a RL thing?
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:42:00 - [286] Edited by: Avon on 09/11/2005 11:42:18 CCP made it possible to dump shuttles, it is their tool for the players to use. Isn't Oveur on record as saying that the devs are constantly impressed with the ways players find to use the tools provided? It is no more an attack on the servers that advertising cans at gates, or the long abandoned secure containers that litter Eve, or the almost unending supply of n00b ships you can find abandoned on your scanner. If the system can't cope with the mechanics, then you have to fix either the servers or the mechanics. Besides, server crashes on the same day as an extended downtime - coincidence? You are doing exactly what CCP wants you to do. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Tiny Carlos	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:43:00 - [287] Quote: It's also a slogan that is tied to the verius acts done in the name of the serbs now standing trail in hague. People I know had family members murdered by the SAS in Ireland.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:52:00 - [288] Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 09/11/2005 11:56:14 I'm utterly amazed that this idiocy still continues CCP. Question. Where did this fall apart to where I went from being a fan to an angry customer at best that considers you incapable bigots at worst ? You don't quite get it yet do you ? I feel utterly and totally insulted here. It's like you came around and told us to stfu and not be whiny children, "go to your room and stay there, we decide what happens here and you are not going to change one thing about it"... Of course, that is in your right. You can forget about any pro-ccp sentiments in posts coming from me from here on tho. This week you graduated from the "comfort" company level to the "EA" company level in my book. Step one in disasociating from your playerbase was made, I feel no warmth when I read your and Oveurs posts anymore, I only feel revulsion at the arrogance displayed in recent decisions and replies.
Riggwelter	Posted - 2005.11.09 11:54:00 - [289] This whole handling of this situation has been a complete farce. You have one corporation 4S 2.5 years old has its name changed but not its ticker (which shows the lack of thought in what has gone on) and tries to dicuss the matter quielty and peaceful with the GM's and MODs behind the scences and gets little to no response. Never minding anything approximating a discussion. Another coperation of similar age SAS has its name changed goes public threatens nasty things and gets its named changed back in the space of a day. 4S get frustrated at the lack of response and then to top it all get assocaited with war criminals by the community manager. You expect them to just sit there and do nothing. Communcication is the KEY to this there was nothing to stop the existing names from remaining for another week or so while the corps concerned were contacted and the situation investigated properly. In Eve your name and corp name is your reputation after 2.5 years of hard work effort to become respected and known you just dont take that away and say get in touch with a new name. It shows a complete lack of respect to evey player in that corporation if not every player playing eve. The fact that this could happen to any corporation in eve worries me greatly. Its possible to find reasons to ban the name of virtually every corporation out there. Whatever the reason thats a lof of hard work and effort your dismissing with the stoke of a key. You can only expect people to get frustrated and upset if you dont even consider if it might be a good idea based on conduct, age, and reputation to contact them before making the changes.
Lorengrim	Posted - 2005.11.09 12:00:00 - [290] Originally by: Avon Besides, server crashes on the same day as an extended downtime - coincidence? Taken your paranoia pills lately?

Cade Burey	Posted - 2005.11.09 12:02:00 - [291] from the EVE ONLINE USER AND CHARACTER NAME POLICY Quote: Note: This list is not all-inclusive. Other names may be deemed inappropriate at a GMÆs discretion. To me this says the don't have to give us a reason, if they don't like a name they can just get rid of it. This is in the policy we all agreed upon by playing this game. Granted this is a very emotive issue, particularly in the light of this current situation but we did agree to it when we started playing this game. also Quote: Reflect, glorify or emulate any real-world group or organization, SAS confirmed to CCP that their name did not reflect the british military unit (therefore not associated with a real world group) whereas 4S did confirm that their name reflected the national slogan of a country (therefore associating themselves with a real world group, in this case a country). It doesn't matter what the symbol itself actually stands for, the policy just states that it cannot reflect any real world group or organization. The rest of the paragraph Quote: Reflect, glorify or emulate any real-world group or organization, terrorist society, criminal elements, discriminating organizations or their leaders and figureheads. This includes the use of names of real-world military, political or religious groups. seems to me to be what is causing all the issues. Detailing out these particular groups seems to be allowing people to interpret the policy to indicate that ONLY these groups aren't allowed. But if we were to interpret the policy as it is worded, then Celt Corp should be gone (a real world group of people of Celtic extraction), Band of Brothers (a real world group of soldiers) should be gone, Marcus Aurelius should be gone (a real world leader of a country), Harlequin (a real world company involved in textile manufacture) should be gone. I am not picking on these people these were just the first 4 I came across reading this thread. The policy in its current wording is so vague as to be almost useless. It needs to be changed.
Zophi	Posted - 2005.11.09 12:03:00 - [292] Originally by: Riggwelter 4S get frustrated at the lack of response and then to top it all get assocaited with war criminals by the community manager. You expect them to just sit there and do nothing. I missed the official 4S statment where they publicly distanced themself from the rl groups that comitted these acts. I assume you have the link... --- "Why can't we all just get along?"
Dr Slaughter	Posted - 2005.11.09 12:06:00 - [293] Originally by: Tiny Carlos Quote: It's also a slogan that is tied to the verius acts done in the name of the serbs now standing trail in hague. People I know had family members murdered by the SAS in Ireland. But.. are you going to petition S.A.S and their 'Who dares wins' stap line over it? I'm guessing not because as far as I'm aware S.A.S players in the game don't go around making racist remarks or relating any threats they might make in-character with out-of-character real life... right?
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.11.09 12:07:00 - [294] Originally by: Riggwelter This whole handling of this situation has been a complete farce. You have one corporation 4S 2.5 years old has its name changed but not its ticker (which shows the lack of thought in what has gone on) and tries to dicuss the matter quielty and peaceful with the GM's and MODs behind the scences and gets little to no response. Never minding anything approximating a discussion. Another coperation of similar age SAS has its name changed goes public threatens nasty things and gets its named changed back in the space of a day. 4S get frustrated at the lack of response and then to top it all get assocaited with war criminals by the community manager. You expect them to just sit there and do nothing. Communcication is the KEY to this there was nothing to stop the existing names from remaining for another week or so while the corps concerned were contacted and the situation investigated properly. In Eve your name and corp name is your reputation after 2.5 years of hard work effort to become respected and known you just dont take that away and say get in touch with a new name. It shows a complete lack of respect to evey player in that corporation if not every player playing eve. The fact that this could happen to any corporation in eve worries me greatly. Its possible to find reasons to ban the name of virtually every corporation out there. Whatever the reason thats a lof of hard work and effort your dismissing with the stoke of a key. You can only expect people to get frustrated and upset if you dont even consider if it might be a good idea based on conduct, age, and reputation to contact them before making the changes. It's still just a game not life. Taking actions into your own hands MAY of caused harm to the server. Doing that is lame. It MAY of effected my game play. No excuse for it. This isn't about Rodney King and everyone is screaming about it. We all know what happen when Rodney King was beat right? Same reaction we have here. What did it solve? Abosultly nothing but the innocent killing of people. The world is dumb for the most part, guess pretending EVE is any diffrent was my fault. It's just a game, get a grip. -Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
Aelius	Posted - 2005.11.09 12:09:00 - [295] Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 09/11/2005 11:56:14 I'm utterly amazed that this idiocy still continues CCP. Question. Where did this fall apart to where I went from being a fan to an angry customer at best that considers you incapable bigots at worst ? You don't quite get it yet do you ? I feel utterly and totally insulted here. It's like you came around and told us to stfu and not be whiny children, "go to your room and stay there, we decide what happens here and you are not going to change one thing about it"... Of course, that is in your right. You can forget about any pro-ccp sentiments in posts coming from me from here on tho. This week you graduated from the "comfort" company level to the "EA" company level in my book. Step one in disasociating from your playerbase was made, I feel no warmth when I read your and Oveurs posts anymore, I only feel revulsion at the arrogance displayed in recent decisions and replies. Somehow i just feel the same as you mate Very DISAPOINTED
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.11.09 12:12:00 - [296] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 09/11/2005 12:08:13 Originally by: Tiny Carlos Quote: It's also a slogan that is tied to the verius acts done in the name of the serbs now standing trail in hague. People I know had family members murdered by the SAS in Ireland. But.. are you going to petition S.A.S and their 'Who dares wins' stap line over it? I'm guessing not because as far as I'm aware S.A.S players in the game don't go around making racist remarks or relating any threats they might make in-character with out-of-character real life... and as Cade say's they have nothing to do with the British Army. right? Did 4S go around making racist comments or threats? - Just a simple warrior.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.09 12:13:00 - [297] I edited my post Aelius, It may reflect how I think about this pile of crap CCP shovelled on us, but it is not constructive, hence please delete the quote. I wont be replying about this issue anymore either. Scratch one fan CCP, add one very active critic.
Vandoras	Posted - 2005.11.09 12:13:00 - [298] Originally by: Aelius Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 09/11/2005 11:56:14 I'm utterly amazed that this idiocy still continues CCP. Question. Where did this fall apart to where I went from being a fan to an angry customer at best that considers you incapable bigots at worst ? You don't quite get it yet do you ? I feel utterly and totally insulted here. It's like you came around and told us to stfu and not be whiny children, "go to your room and stay there, we decide what happens here and you are not going to change one thing about it"... Of course, that is in your right. You can forget about any pro-ccp sentiments in posts coming from me from here on tho. This week you graduated from the "comfort" company level to the "EA" company level in my book. Step one in disasociating from your playerbase was made, I feel no warmth when I read your and Oveurs posts anymore, I only feel revulsion at the arrogance displayed in recent decisions and replies. Somehow i just feel the same as you mate Very DISAPOINTED Sigh. Sam here.. Might as well play WoW then.....
Ada Riklova	Posted - 2005.11.09 12:16:00 - [299] Originally by: Marcus Grisbius I imagine that a large part of the resetting of SAS and not 4S would be the stated intent of the name. While S.A.S. could possibly be named after the RL military organization, they have denied that intent in the creation. 4S has not done the same. They have insisted that it IS a national symbol and the corp represents that. Let's twist and turn that a little bit... Just because someone said that "SAS" doesn't represent the british military wing, I can't be offended by that acronym?
Matthew	Posted - 2005.11.09 12:16:00 - [300] Originally by: Avon Even if the servers crashed as a direct consequence of 4S's actions alone (which would require them to be in an empty system if you think about it), you still can't say the crashed the servers. If the servers would have stayed up without their unjustified and unreasonable generation of extra load, then it is reasonable to say that their actions caused the server to crash. Originally by: Avon Unless they knew that their actions would definately crash the servers, and it was their sole aim, any such accusations are unfounded. Protest and disruption go hand in hand, but I am sure that crashing the server was not the aim. They knew dumping the shuttles would cause problems for the server. There is no other reason to do it. They knew Jita is one of the highest-load systems in eve, and struggles even under normal load conditions. They deliberately picked actions and locations where the effect on the server would be maximised. They intended to disrupt the server. Whether they were more effective than they expected or not is irrelevant. Originally by: Avon As someone already said, this is a convenient was for CCP to scapegoat 4S and turn opinion against them. The protestors had turned opinion against them as soon as they rendered Jita unplayable, which was well before the server went down. Originally by: Avon CCP made it possible to dump shuttles, it is their tool for the players to use And it has a valid use - drop a shuttle to rescue your mate in a pod. Abusing it to drop that many shuttles is entirely the fault of the person using the tool. After all, if someone stabbed you with a screwdriver, would you blame the person doing the stabbing, or the screwdriver manufacturer for not designing out that use of it? Originally by: Avon Isn't Oveur on record as saying that the devs are constantly impressed with the ways players find to use the tools provided? From his words in Jita local last night, it's safe to say Oveur was decidedly unimpressed with this use. Originally by: Avon You are doing exactly what CCP wants you to do No, I'm doing exactly what I want to do. You can do anything. But you can't do everything.



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