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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1496
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Posted - 2013.06.08 10:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This.
If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
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Posted - 2013.06.08 15:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Asptar Monastair wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing. Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time. Seeing as how markets and contracts and everything is handled on a different node, and chat is on a completely different service altogether, I would say the most work being done by the node would be on the ships in space. So reducing spammers and other docked activities probably wouldn't make much difference. I could be totally wrong though. You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
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Posted - 2013.06.08 16:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. See my reply above, they don't contribute that much to load.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
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Posted - 2013.06.08 16:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
pmchem wrote:CCP Explorer wrote: If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
I think a major concern is that the Jita limit before cap or tidi apparently went _down_ with Odyssey's release. Why was this? And will it also affect the number at which fleet fights are tidi'd? Performance should get better, not worse, in a big release... we all hope! It is known why that is; first of all there is always a different usage profile in Jita in the first week after an expansion. More traffic and since the load is mostly traffic related then we need to lower the cap until tha bump of excitement tapers off. Secondly there were changes to logging we did related to the attacks the weekend before Odyssey that we need to optimise. We hope to do that very soon and then the population cap on Jita will return to normal values.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
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Posted - 2013.06.08 16:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. SoooGǪ this whole brain-in-a-box thing we've heard about has the potential of being the largest Jita booster in a long while, if you get it to work? CCP Veritas is still working on that and, yes, that would be the largest Jita boost in a while and a tremendous boon to coordinated fleet fight jump-ins. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
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Posted - 2013.06.08 16:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wes Vyvorant wrote:Delen Ormand wrote:Wes Vyvorant wrote:Ffs ccp just fix jita already. I am not paying to sit at a gate spamming buttons. I'm guessing you actually are, or you wouldn't have posted this :) No i gave up, logged off and posted this sitting at the bbq with a beer. How's Amarr these days? Right now there are 2050 in Jita and 835 in Amarr. We very recently assigned Amarr to better hardware to handle more load. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Veritas
C C P C C P Alliance
752
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Posted - 2013.06.08 16:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
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Posted - 2013.06.08 16:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. See my reply above, they don't contribute that much to load. but if you removed local, they'd have no reason to be *in* jita, so that'd lighten the load, surely? No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
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Posted - 2013.06.08 16:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Noddy Comet wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. Yet they add to the total population limit, correct? There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mc Scam wrote:How about removing traffic from afk players by not allowing Jita as final destination for the autopilot? (Just make em park on the gates to Jita instead) Should also keep the cap more stable near the actual needed limit. Would that help?
Edit: I will link this page to every future thread about Jita limits that I run across. By default then Jita is on the avoidance list so pilots don't 'accidentally' autopilot through Jita. But if people want to go to Jita...
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. ^^ +10 I wonder if CCP is ready to reinforce Ammar like they do Jita if it becomes a larger trade hub. There's been outbreaks of TiDi there too in the last few weeks. I seem to recall Dr E saying in a presentation ~2years ago that Ammarr Empire population has been swelling which makes it a good trade hub. We reinforced Amarr on 1 June on hardware in the class below Jita to provide better performance. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:pmchem wrote:CCP Explorer wrote: If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
I think a major concern is that the Jita limit before cap or tidi apparently went _down_ with Odyssey's release. Why was this? And will it also affect the number at which fleet fights are tidi'd? Performance should get better, not worse, in a big release... we all hope! It is known why that is; first of all there is always a different usage profile in Jita in the first week after an expansion. More traffic and since the load is mostly traffic related then we need to lower the cap until tha bump of excitement tapers off. Secondly there were changes to logging we did related to the attacks the weekend before Odyssey that we need to optimise. We hope to do that very soon and then the population cap on Jita will return to normal values. Hope that works, Jita with 2,000-ish population post Odyssey performs quite worst than Jita with 2,300 pop pre-Odissey. Pre-Odyssey the population cap was 2,170. Post-Odyssey it is 2,050; first and foremost because of increased logging, added the day before Odyssey, which we intend to optimise.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
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Posted - 2013.06.08 21:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. So, if i may ask, why did the load limit seem to drop lower after the patch? New shiney system add more load than expected? Replied here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3170015#post3170015
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
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Posted - 2013.06.08 21:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Obunagawe wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:pmchem wrote:CCP Explorer wrote: If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
I think a major concern is that the Jita limit before cap or tidi apparently went _down_ with Odyssey's release. Why was this? And will it also affect the number at which fleet fights are tidi'd? Performance should get better, not worse, in a big release... we all hope! It is known why that is; first of all there is always a different usage profile in Jita in the first week after an expansion. More traffic and since the load is mostly traffic related then we need to lower the cap until tha bump of excitement tapers off. Secondly there were changes to logging we did related to the attacks the weekend before Odyssey that we need to optimise. We hope to do that very soon and then the population cap on Jita will return to normal values. Hope that works, Jita with 2,000-ish population post Odyssey performs quite worst than Jita with 2,300 pop pre-Odissey. Pre-Odyssey the population cap was 2,170. Post-Odyssey it is 2,050; first and foremost because of increased logging, added the day before Odyssey, which we intend to optimise. Pre-pre-Odyssey, it was 2330. Let us not forget. Not directly comparable; in the post-Retribution period Jita's TiDi was frequently hitting sub-50% with a population cap of 2,300. On 21 Feb we decided to lower the limit to 2,200 and then further to 2,170 on 22 Feb. The aim was to keep TiDi above 80% and not kick in more often than every 15 minutes on average.
The 2,170 post-Retribution/post-tweaking number is directly comparable to the current 2,050 number. But the cause of that decrease is known and will be addressed. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
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Posted - 2013.06.08 21:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tippia wrote:So what's with all the dev answers? Is it post-patch spring break and they finally let you roam free? Yes, the summer expansion is out and it's a while until winter comes.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 15:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. THIS.. half of jita residents are just scam / spam bots. im not against scamming, but in Jita it means a serious problem if there is a limit of players. Those bots just occupy free slots from this limit and they actually dont play a game. Already replied to this in the thread. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 15:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
AutumnWind1983 wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Noddy Comet wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. Yet they add to the total population limit, correct? There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. So instead of the useful population of Jita being what the face value is by banning Y amount of spambots, it remains at facevalue - y and CCP is content with this status? If we banned Y spambots then we would need to lower the limit to X since that's where the actual load comes from. The cap accounts for the non-contributing pilots.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 15:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:Other games don't limit sales to local zones GǪand neither does EVE. You're apparently not familiar with this one. He's a themeparker with a preternatural inability to "get" Eve, and is probably hoping the Jita "problem" will be "fixed" by allowing him to purchase anything from anywhere via a universal market and have it delivered to his hangar. Quote:It's both a mechanics issue (trade alts of various stripes and skills parked in one area for convenience in selling), and human nature in a social game.
As previously mentioned, the people who are just parked aren't actually the problem. Markets, chat, etc. aren't actually on the same node, and an object merely existing in Jita doesn't actually consume all that many clock cycles. What part of this thread you didn't understand ? no one is complaining that spamming bots are causing lags. What are we saying these spamming bots are occupying slots of the Jita cap population. Since they are useless to the rest of EVE community they should deal with that. If they all went away we would need to lower the cap. The cap accounts for both contributing and non-contributing pilots from a load perspective.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Robus Muvila wrote:Seriously if I was a game dev it's the threads like this that would make me want to shave my head and take to the rooftops. Here are the cliffnotes for the traders that have worked themselves into a frenzy
- Jita is a near permanently reinforced that is already stretched to capacity.
- Spambots are not contributing to the problem
- Spambots are not interfering with the population cap
- The only things doing this is the intensely heavy traffic of ships in flight in space
Is it really so bad to finally admit that the heart of the economy of a whole galaxy has outgrown one starsystem? Surely that is a positive reflection on the sheer juggernaut capitalism that you traders and industrialists drive. Indeed, no one thing is going to "fix" Jita, multiple things will be needed. We are not going to throw hardware at the problem since there really isn't any better / more suitable hardware on the market and as Tippia has repeatedly explained in this thread then it's not a sustainable solution. That being said, if and when there is better hardware available we will probably buy it, because who doesn't like shiny new hardware...
In the meantime we are working on "Brain in a Box" (details explained by Tippia in this thread) that is primarily meant for coordinated fleet fight jump-ins but will greatly benefit Jita, and you can grow Amarr as an alternative to Jita.
I tweeted recently about Amarr's new hardware https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/340791130104942593 and about how the population of Amarr has grown in recent months https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/343517649927536643 . It had been 500-600 for a long while but is now peaking around 1000. Chribba replied https://twitter.com/Chribba/status/343637496351035392 reminiscing how it used to be only 40-50 (he probably walked a mile in the snow to his Veldnaught at the time). Amarr is still far behind Jita in terms of market volume but it's also significantly ahead of all others. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:What part of this thread you didn't understand ? no one is complaining that spamming bots are causing lags. What are we saying these spamming bots are occupying slots of the Jita cap population. Since they are useless to the rest of EVE community they should deal with that. You should try understanding what the Devs said, the population cap s already calculated with the chatters/botters in mind: Now: Space for real players: 1600 500 "Botters" (Just to demonstrate, number mustn't be true) 1600 Real players 2100 Population Cap CCP removes the "Botters": Space for real players is still 1600 1600 Real Players 1600 Population Cap Nothing would change for people trying to get in. OK so the cap is variable value based on the Botters in Jita, how is the system differentiate between real players and Botters ? - everyone posting in local chat, system is considering them as Botters ? - anyone is posting in local chat with constant time intervals between his posts? - anyone is posting the same post in local chat repeatedly ? - anyone is docked up considered as Botter ? - anyone who is afk and docked at Jita is considered as Botter ? It's not dynamic, we look at Jita on a regular basis and adjust the value based on the load numbers.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Asptar Monastair wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing. Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time. Seeing as how markets and contracts and everything is handled on a different node, and chat is on a completely different service altogether, I would say the most work being done by the node would be on the ships in space. So reducing spammers and other docked activities probably wouldn't make much difference. I could be totally wrong though. You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking. Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold). Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:If we banned Y spambots then we would need to lower the limit to X since that's where the actual load comes from. The cap accounts for the non-contributing pilots.
No offense, Sir, but this sounds a little bit like you exactly knew who the spambots are in Jita. We don't, we simply look at the load numbers and adjust them to keep the server as busy as possible without too much TiDi. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1567
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Posted - 2013.06.11 19:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:There was a point when Jita could handle 2450 I think or at least more than 2300 before it shut the gates, now after Odyssey its 2050. Why? The all time record in Jita is 2,400. Otherwise replied to here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3171380#post3171380 Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1571
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Posted - 2013.06.11 19:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. If you can identify the bots--the Y figure--and botting is not allowed under the EULA, why haven't you guys just banned the bots already? I get that scamming is part of the game (a profession?), but botting and spamming local using a bot is disallowed and ought to result in many juicy bans. Replied to here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3175100#post3175100 Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1571
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Posted - 2013.06.11 19:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Socks the Fox wrote:Obunagawe wrote:Jita is apparently single-threaded and already running on a i7 with 5GHz and 64GB RAM. They'd have to work out some way to make it multi-threaded and that will never happen. That's not true. There's no way that's true. Please don't let that be true. CCP Explorer, is that really true? A solarsystem is the smallest load balancing unit and is a single-threaded process. We are working on one project to offload a lot of the work to another process (see Brain in a Box in this thread) and have more ideas that we intend to look at a later date. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1572
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Posted - 2013.06.11 21:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. If you can identify the bots--the Y figure--and botting is not allowed under the EULA, why haven't you guys just banned the bots already? I get that scamming is part of the game (a profession?), but botting and spamming local using a bot is disallowed and ought to result in many juicy bans. Replied to here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3175100#post3175100 Which is it? Do you guys know who the spambots are or not? Here (quoted link from above), you say you don't know, but below you say that you know how many spambots you have. If you know how many spambots you have--meaning you can identify a spambot over a player--then where is the disconnect from identifying the actual spambots and banning them? "Ok, we know *this* is a player (causing load) and *this* is a bot." << Bingo! Ban the bot. CCP Explorer wrote:No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. I never said we knew what X and Y are. We know what X+Y is, that's currently 2,050 and it's breaks down into some number of active pilots (X) and some number of inactive / non-load-contributing pilots (Y). Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1579
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Posted - 2013.06.16 16:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Obunagawe wrote:This issue is now self-perpetuating. More and more people are logging into Jita as soon as they can after downtime to "get a spot". Meaning that Jita becomes more congested, causing MORE people to log in after downtime. So things are only going to get much, much worse. Or other market hubs start to gain, Amarr has been growing significantly since Dec 2012. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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