Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
Condrad Antollare
Independent Gaming Group Iron Oxide.
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 21:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
As much as we all enjoy sitting on the Perimeter gate into Jita, is it not time to raise the Jita population limit?
http://oi40.tinypic.com/b7j8js.jpg
Pic Related |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
4405
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 21:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ill get my Gank Catalyst traffic control squad together immeadiately and clean that mess off gate for you.
Thank you for bringing this urgent matter to our attention. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Capt Tenguru10
Nintendo Power Against ALL Authorities
838
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 22:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
NO http://i.imgur.com/EYX5Zi7.gif |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14648
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 22:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Boomhaur
135
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 22:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
So are you proposing we turn it into 0.0 for a day to drop the population? If so I like your idea. If not I choose to refuse logic and replace it with my own. Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
656
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 22:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's the price you pay for fluff and eye candy.
I too am excited about trading playability for more lag and shiny pictures.....:( Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
|
Haulie Berry
970
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Eve: Yeah, this system is full. Why don't you **** off to somewhere else? You: OMG LET MOAR PPL IN
Seriously, take a hint. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
354
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Stop using the autopilot. Use something else instead. Remove insurance. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14648
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Stop using the autopilot. Use something else instead. Actually, using the autopilot is a pretty good way of getting with with a minimum of effort. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
132
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
I can't find the link now, but apparently ships that are on autopilot have priority in the queue.
Oh, and the higher the value of your cargo the better, too.. |
|
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
4409
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Delen Ormand wrote:I can't find the link now, but apparently ships that are on autopilot have priority in the queue.
Oh, and the higher the value of your cargo the better, too..
Agreed. Frieghters with higher value cargo and are on autopilot have priority. They should always be primary(ied). Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Condrad Antollare
Independent Gaming Group Iron Oxide.
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Eve: Yeah, this system is full. Why don't you **** off to somewhere else? You: OMG LET MOAR PPL IN Seriously, take a hint.
Why would a population limit make someone turn around? If I'm 20 jumps away I'm not worrying about if I can get into Jita or not - In essence Jita is the go to hub now, a seriously effective marketplace - the limit is just an inconvenience not a deterrent. |
Sentamon
1027
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 00:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
CONCORD should blow up anyone loitering at the gate.
Obviously they're up to no good. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Hessian Arcturus
S.W.O.R.D. Navy
124
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 00:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
I just spam the "Jump" button. Never been waiting over 30 seconds to get into Jita. Ever... It's human nature to want to explore. To find your line and go beyond it. The only limit, is the one you set yourself. |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1496
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 10:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This.
If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Steve WingYip
Lumodynamics Power Control Corp Panda Cave
1061
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 10:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Server lag lol |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
232
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 11:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Delen Ormand wrote:I can't find the link now, but apparently ships that are on autopilot have priority in the queue.
Oh, and the higher the value of your cargo the better, too..
Well, the value of the cargo seems not what gets you in, but autopilot does get you in faster, probably due to less spamming.
When WoW opened 5.3 with a guild only world boss (that everyone but their dead uncle wanted to kill) the servers crashed with multiple 40man raids sought to kill it. Too many in one zone.
It was fixed in days.
In WoW they use phasing extensively, it's a boom for immersion or a curse (CRZ). "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|
Oxide Ammar
Aurora Security Transstellar Operations
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 11:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing.
Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time. |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
577
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 11:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
should remove any cap and let it drop to 10% TiDI. people in 0.0 have to deal with it when a fleet undocks. market whores should be dealing with it when 3000 are moving crap about OMG when can i get a pic here
|
Asptar Monastair
Adventurers
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 11:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing. Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time.
Seeing as how markets and contracts and everything is handled on a different node, and chat is on a completely different service altogether, I would say the most work being done by the node would be on the ships in space. So reducing spammers and other docked activities probably wouldn't make much difference. I could be totally wrong though. |
|
Anniken Geirsdottir
Red Claw Rising Entropy Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 11:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Easy way to deterr local spam/scam-bots:
100k Fibonacci jita local cspa charge.
First message in jita local per day is free. 2nd: 100k 3rd: 100k 4th: 200k 5th: 300k 6th: 500k 7th: 800k 8th: 1.3mil ...
Also not per char or account, but per person (identified by cc or other means.) Also, as need arises, like on saturdays or sundays, factor 10 or 100 could be implemented. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1911
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 12:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
I really don't get it. I never have a problem getting into Jita.
By the looks of the gates though, the AFK crowd was not getting in though. |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
1609
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 13:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:I really don't get it. I never have a problem getting into Jita.
By the looks of the gates though, the AFK crowd was not getting in though.
Perhaps you're just lucky, or don't even try to get in at a time that coincides with Jita Max? They could just remove local, and half the population would go somewhere else.
With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
|
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
71
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 13:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. should remove any cap and let it drop to 10% TiDI. people in 0.0 have to deal with it when a fleet undocks. market whores should be dealing with it when 3000 are moving crap about
This is the best solution imo. It would force people to spread out to other systems to avoid the tidi on their market orders. Maybe it would even make them open their buy orders to somewhere other than just the jita 4-4 station so I could sell in Perimeter or New Caldari for the same price instead of trying to get into jita =P |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14666
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 13:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:I really don't get it. I never have a problem getting into Jita.
By the looks of the gates though, the AFK crowd was not getting in though. Perhaps you're just lucky, or don't even try to get in at a time that coincides with Jita Max? They could just remove local, and half the population would go somewhere else. More likely, he didn't just fly up to the gate and clicked GÇ£JumpGÇ¥, but rather employed a more aggressive strategy.
Speaking of which, I'm trying to get a freighter out of Jita, but there are too many open slots so I can just log in. Could people please fill the place up so I can have my ship and precious cargo moved to a better system?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
429
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 13:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
What about removing Jita local, so that people.. I mean, BOTS, stop using slots just to spam ? G££ <= Me |
Zak Breen
Breen Enterprises
105
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 13:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Altrue wrote:What about removing Jita local, so that people.. I mean, BOTS, stop using slots just to spam ?
That would make too much sense. Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of not knowing. http://www.di.fm/spacemusic |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 13:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
One tactic I use (although it doesn't help so much with initially getting into Jita) is to fly my items into 4-4, drop them, immediately leave Jita and manipulate/sell/etc remotely from that point. Less lag dealt with overall that way. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
2357
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 13:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Tollen Gallen
Xionworld
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 14:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
Altrue wrote:What about removing Jita local, so that people.. I mean, BOTS, stop using slots just to spam ?
Cake for you! |
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1913
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 14:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:I really don't get it. I never have a problem getting into Jita.
By the looks of the gates though, the AFK crowd was not getting in though. Perhaps you're just lucky, or don't even try to get in at a time that coincides with Jita Max? They could just remove local, and half the population would go somewhere else. 1. Click on jump. 2. If fail, Press ENTER and go to 1.
|
Dave Stark
3108
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 14:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
Zak Breen wrote:Altrue wrote:What about removing Jita local, so that people.. I mean, BOTS, stop using slots just to spam ? That would make too much sense.
i'd love to see how many people stop logging in to jita alts if local chat vanishes. |
Obunagawe
130
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 14:14:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jita is now inaccessible from 2 hours after downtime, until past midnight.
It takes me over 50 tries to log a character into Jita during these times.
It's stupid that the server is capped to benefit a minority of people who actually want to do things that aren't affected by TIDI in Jita. |
Implying Implications
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
390
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 14:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Confirming that Jita is the only place to buy stuff in this game. sÅ»µä¢püòpü»µ¡út+¬püápÇé |
Tollen Gallen
Xionworld
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 14:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Zak Breen wrote:Altrue wrote:What about removing Jita local, so that people.. I mean, BOTS, stop using slots just to spam ? That would make too much sense. i'd love to see how many people stop logging in to jita alts if local chat vanishes.
Given that there seems to be atleast 2000 in local at any given time, i'd guess 100+.
Hmm... On one hand that seems high, but on the other it does'nt seem high enough...... I try not to go there.
But as its been said in countless other threads, We as the playerbase created it.
SHAME ON YOU! |
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
521
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 15:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote: If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
I think a major concern is that the Jita limit before cap or tidi apparently went _down_ with Odyssey's release. Why was this? And will it also affect the number at which fleet fights are tidi'd? Performance should get better, not worse, in a big release... we all hope! @pmchem on twitter || GARPA || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
143
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 15:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Delen Ormand wrote:I can't find the link now, but apparently ships that are on autopilot have priority in the queue.
Oh, and the higher the value of your cargo the better, too.. Well, the value of the cargo seems not what gets you in, but autopilot does get you in faster, probably due to less spamming.
No, the cargo value definitely has an effect.
We can actually prove it for everyone quite easily. If you load up an industrial with, say, 20 PLEXes and autopilot it to Jita at peak time, I'll autopilot an empty battleship and we'll see who gets in first. I have a friend who says he can be there to provide independant verification also. |
Wes Vyvorant
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 15:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ffs ccp just fix jita already. I am not paying to sit at a gate spamming buttons. And While your at it remove local chat cause its unusable anyway. |
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
143
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 15:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
Wes Vyvorant wrote: Ffs ccp just fix jita already. I am not paying to sit at a gate spamming buttons.
I'm guessing you actually are, or you wouldn't have posted this :)
|
Wes Vyvorant
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 15:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
Delen Ormand wrote:Wes Vyvorant wrote: Ffs ccp just fix jita already. I am not paying to sit at a gate spamming buttons.
I'm guessing you actually are, or you wouldn't have posted this :)
No i gave up, logged off and posted this sitting at the bbq with a beer. |
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 15:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
Asptar Monastair wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing. Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time. Seeing as how markets and contracts and everything is handled on a different node, and chat is on a completely different service altogether, I would say the most work being done by the node would be on the ships in space. So reducing spammers and other docked activities probably wouldn't make much difference. I could be totally wrong though. You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. See my reply above, they don't contribute that much to load.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14672
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. SoooGǪ this whole brain-in-a-box thing we've heard about has the potential of being the largest Jita booster in a long while, if you get it to work? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
pmchem wrote:CCP Explorer wrote: If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
I think a major concern is that the Jita limit before cap or tidi apparently went _down_ with Odyssey's release. Why was this? And will it also affect the number at which fleet fights are tidi'd? Performance should get better, not worse, in a big release... we all hope! It is known why that is; first of all there is always a different usage profile in Jita in the first week after an expansion. More traffic and since the load is mostly traffic related then we need to lower the cap until tha bump of excitement tapers off. Secondly there were changes to logging we did related to the attacks the weekend before Odyssey that we need to optimise. We hope to do that very soon and then the population cap on Jita will return to normal values.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tippia wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. SoooGǪ this whole brain-in-a-box thing we've heard about has the potential of being the largest Jita booster in a long while, if you get it to work? CCP Veritas is still working on that and, yes, that would be the largest Jita boost in a while and a tremendous boon to coordinated fleet fight jump-ins. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion Of Mordor
118
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
A cap on free hanger space in stations might help spread out the herd. Just thinking out loud. |
Dave Stark
3109
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. See my reply above, they don't contribute that much to load.
but if you removed local, they'd have no reason to be *in* jita, so that'd lighten the load, surely? |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
Wes Vyvorant wrote:Delen Ormand wrote:Wes Vyvorant wrote:Ffs ccp just fix jita already. I am not paying to sit at a gate spamming buttons. I'm guessing you actually are, or you wouldn't have posted this :) No i gave up, logged off and posted this sitting at the bbq with a beer. How's Amarr these days? Right now there are 2050 in Jita and 835 in Amarr. We very recently assigned Amarr to better hardware to handle more load. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
CCP Veritas
C C P C C P Alliance
752
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software |
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:13:00 -
[50] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. See my reply above, they don't contribute that much to load. but if you removed local, they'd have no reason to be *in* jita, so that'd lighten the load, surely? No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
Noddy Comet
Lysdexic Agnostics - Thier is no Dog
55
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
So, from this we can gather that the criteria for doing nothing in Jita to help improve it more as a trade hub for people who actually wish to, huh... trade, is it meets the bare bones minimum requirement for being both accessible and performance?
Here's the thing that has bothered me for years about Jita...
Look at Jita cam.
Look at local.
What do we see?
Literally hundreds of docks/undocks per hour vs 20-50+ (at peak times) of BOTS that just sit in local and spam the channel with scams. I can't remember the last time I logged into Jita and did not immediately block at least 5-10 bot scammers.
If the criteria here is to have Jita accessible as trade hub to ALL who wish to get in and do actual legitimate biznez while it begin accessible and performing at optimal levels, it would appear to be common sense to make it nearly impossible for the system population to be hogged up by some selfish bastages scam-botting the channel for hours on end (which most sane players have already blocked within the first 30 seconds of zoning into the system) and thus freeing up those precious population slots for those who want to fly in, trade goods and fly out again.
/inb4 butthurt Jita scammer alts that will no doubt attack the poster and ignore the post. |
Noddy Comet
Lysdexic Agnostics - Thier is no Dog
55
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system.
Yet they add to the total population limit, correct? |
Dave Stark
3109
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
ah i see, makes sense. |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1503
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:20:00 -
[54] - Quote
Noddy Comet wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. Yet they add to the total population limit, correct? There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Mathias Karsten
New Eden Regimental Navy Rebel Alliance of New Eden
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
Noddy Comet wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. Yet they add to the total population limit, correct?
The population limit takes those docked spammers into account, so if they remove the docked folks, limit is changed accordingly. Mathias Karsten
RANE Council Member, RANE Director New Eden Regimental Navy [NERN] Rebel Alliance of New Eden [RANE] |
Condrad Antollare
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:29:00 -
[56] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Noddy Comet wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. Yet they add to the total population limit, correct? There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
Get a better server? I thought this was a sandbox but apparently the devs are trying to put a hold on economic growth in Jita |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
234
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:44:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
Since the problem isn't going away as it's a player choice to trade in one place, how about increasing the hardware to compensate for it? More blades since it's traffic related and not data?
If not more hardware, financial incentives to redistribute the load? Because truthfully every faction zone should have their trade capital. Ferrying goods from Amarr or Gallente space to Jita to sale is not only a resource hog, it's a time hog. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
219
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
I agree with the irrelevant NPC corp forum alts; CCP should ditch the system cap, and TiDi along with it. It was so much better when you just blackscreened upon undocking or jumping into system. "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
iskflakes
496
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 16:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
Perhaps you could disable the real time station memberlist and switch local to delayed memberlist mode.
(If there are 1700 people docked and one person undocks, that's 1700 people who need to receive an update. The same is true with local chat.) - |
Mc Scam
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
54
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 17:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
How about removing traffic from afk players by not allowing Jita as final destination for the autopilot? (Just make em park on the gates to Jita instead) Would that help? |
|
Quintessen
Orion's Belt Mining and Pharmaceuticals
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 17:11:00 -
[61] - Quote
Perhaps if CCP introduced the idea of traffic congestion that would help create additional markets and aid the server problem. We don't need Jita to become even bigger and more efficient; otherwise it will become the only real trade hub. It would be nice if there were reasons to use other trade hubs other than trying to be more gank-resistant. In real cities their growth is limited by their infrastructure. Perhaps as the gates become more and more used then the time to transition becomes higher. This would limit Jita some, but benefit distribution in an immersive way. The stargates can only push so many people through per hour -- same for the stations. I know it feels backwards to affect player experience that way, but perhaps it will have long-term benefits. Jita can't just grow forever. There needs to be reasons to move to other locations. |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
958
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 18:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ban the obvious spam-bots, local list into delayed mode. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9975
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 18:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
Amarr is only like 8 jumps away.
1 Kings 12:11
|
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
441
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:03:00 -
[64] - Quote
And lo did CCP come forth and speak. Their words resounded across the forums and through the interwebs. The message was clear and thunderous. "Spambots are not the problem in Jita" "You going there is the problem" And thus it was said. |
Arcosian
Arco's Advanced Industries
121
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
Do you guys by chance know how the new scanner is affecting load on the jita node? I would think with every person undocking in jita and then having the scanner run would have some effect.
Also having the ability to turn it off auto scan would be nice since it's really not needed unless you are running sites. Perhaps there is a way to do this I don't know about? |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1107
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:12:00 -
[66] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. ^^ +10
I wonder if CCP is ready to reinforce Ammar like they do Jita if it becomes a larger trade hub. There's been outbreaks of TiDi there too in the last few weeks. I seem to recall Dr E saying in a presentation ~2years ago that Ammarr Empire population has been swelling which makes it a good trade hub.
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
888
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:15:00 -
[67] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. ^^ +10 I wonder if CCP is ready to reinforce Ammar like they do Jita if it becomes a larger trade hub. There's been outbreaks of TiDi there too in the last few weeks. I seem to recall Dr E saying in a presentation ~2years ago that Ammarr Empire population has been swelling which makes it a good trade hub.
actually, they very recently did exactly that
to reduce lag in jita, CCP should raise the sales tax there We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Banner was used for this Post |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1108
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:21:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Wes Vyvorant wrote:Delen Ormand wrote:Wes Vyvorant wrote:Ffs ccp just fix jita already. I am not paying to sit at a gate spamming buttons. I'm guessing you actually are, or you wouldn't have posted this :) No i gave up, logged off and posted this sitting at the bbq with a beer. How's Amarr these days? Right now there are 2050 in Jita and 835 in Amarr. We very recently assigned Amarr to better hardware to handle more load.
Here's an idea to make Ammarr a more palatable hub: add a few more jump gates into it & surrounding systems announcing that it is the intention to create a second HUB An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Revman Zim
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
118
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away.
This^
I only use Amarr, or TM occasionally, although it is a couple more jumps away.
Amarr is easy to get into, great stock and close to my alt's POS.
Amarr = Jita Lite. Tastes great, Less Filling! |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
2360
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:pmchem wrote:CCP Explorer wrote: If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
I think a major concern is that the Jita limit before cap or tidi apparently went _down_ with Odyssey's release. Why was this? And will it also affect the number at which fleet fights are tidi'd? Performance should get better, not worse, in a big release... we all hope! It is known why that is; first of all there is always a different usage profile in Jita in the first week after an expansion. More traffic and since the load is mostly traffic related then we need to lower the cap until tha bump of excitement tapers off. Secondly there were changes to logging we did related to the attacks the weekend before Odyssey that we need to optimise. We hope to do that very soon and then the population cap on Jita will return to normal values.
Hope that works, Jita with 2,000-ish population post Odyssey performs quite worst than Jita with 2,300 pop pre-Odissey. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
|
El 1974
Green Visstick High Green Rhino
84
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:26:00 -
[71] - Quote
Perhaps it would be an option to disable duelling in Jita (or any hisec system that has a cap/tidi). If you want to duel, do it some place quiet. |
Chic Botany
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:27:00 -
[72] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away.
Nice solution - basically CCP can't or won't spring for extra hardware for the jita system so travel another 5(ish) jumps to a different trade hub.
Well, then I'd have to have an amarr price checker since I'm based in the forge, to check mineral prices for the stuff I want to build, haul freighters full of minerals an extra 5 jumps, haul the end products the extra 5 jumps back again.
Have a proper queue at the gate, when you get there and it's full, you get assigned a slot, and when it's available you automatically jump in, and people logging into jita have the same issue undocking from 4-4 cnap, if there's too many in space then they have to wait.
But short of throwing lots more rl isk at the problem for even better servers, I guess there's not much else they can do.
TiDi would be on permanently if activated, so that wouldn't really solve the problem, instead of 2k players in system with it running ok(ish) there would be 3k players in system all complaining about the lag.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14674
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
Chic Botany wrote:Nice solution - basically CCP can't or won't spring for extra hardware for the jita system so travel another 5(ish) jumps to a different trade hub. Since springing for extra hardware is a pretty short-sighted and futile solution, moving your business around is probably a better idea. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9977
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
Jita already has its own reinforced node. Its as good as it gets.
1 Kings 12:11
|
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
443
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:43:00 -
[75] - Quote
Chic Botany wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. Nice solution - basically CCP can't or won't spring for extra hardware for the jita system so travel another 5(ish) jumps to a different trade hub. Well, then I'd have to have an amarr price checker since I'm based in the forge, to check mineral prices for the stuff I want to build, haul freighters full of minerals an extra 5 jumps, haul the end products the extra 5 jumps back again. Have a proper queue at the gate, when you get there and it's full, you get assigned a slot, and when it's available you automatically jump in, and people logging into jita have the same issue undocking from 4-4 cnap, if there's too many in space then they have to wait. But short of throwing lots more rl isk at the problem for even better servers, I guess there's not much else they can do. TiDi would be on permanently if activated, so that wouldn't really solve the problem, instead of 2k players in system with it running ok(ish) there would be 3k players in system all complaining about the lag. Hey if you want better hardware, pay more. Simple as that.
And no Dust is self funding so unless you want to steal from all them, pay for the server you use. Or you know rewrite your software (seriously if you programmed properly it should just be changing one variable or a replace all away) I lived and worked in Amarr for a long time and had no issues doing so Well technically some lowsec near it because I lacked standing |
Terian en Cedoulain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:46:00 -
[76] - Quote
Over the past 6 years or so, I've been in Jita once with my main characters. This guy has been there occasionally because I'm going to put him in RvB once he's trained up a bit and RvB is unfortunately located right next to Jita, much to my chagrin.
People should consider moving to other parts of New Eden. I mean, really. |
Chic Botany
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:54:00 -
[77] - Quote
So the only solution seems to be 'Suck it up Suckers' HTFU keep spamming the jump button and hope.
I've always managed to get freighters in fairly easily, with not too many rejections, but it does seem like it's worse than normal (well as normal as jita can be)
I've toyed with the idea of moving myself, I've got Amarr Empire standing at 5.98 so a few missions and a storyline to hopefully get that boosted a bit, but the thoughts of moving everything fill me with , so many blueprints, so many bpc's, many courier contracts later. I'll have to start building some small freight containers to keep them separate in the freighter.
With a bit of luck, given a few weeks and jita may have calmed down a bit so it's only the weekend that gets the problems at the gate.
|
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
511
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:00:00 -
[78] - Quote
Use other trade hubs. Believe it or not, they are pretty good places to do business too. Dodixie, Rens, Amarr, even Hek to a degree. Lots of times you can even find better prices there than Jita. Those other trade hubs usually have several hundred people lurking about. Positive note? Much less spam botting from what I noticed. Anyway, just go somewhere else.
On another note... I am kind of disappointed that I didn't see Goons taking advantage of that traffic jam. *removed inappropriate signature* - CCP Eterne |
Hazzard
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
40
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:27:00 -
[79] - Quote
They need to setup a limit on people spamming local and if you msg the same thing more then 3 times in a 5 minute interval they should auto log you off.
Then there would be plenty of room in Jita. |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
324
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:30:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. So, if i may ask, why did the load limit seem to drop lower after the patch? New shiney system add more load than expected? http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
|
Mc Scam
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
54
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:38:00 -
[81] - Quote
Hazzard wrote:They need to setup a limit on people spamming local and if you msg the same thing more then 3 times in a 5 minute interval they should auto log you off.
Then there would be plenty of room in Jita.
Read the blueposts on page 3 pls. There would be no additional room even if they were all removed. |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:55:00 -
[82] - Quote
Mc Scam wrote:How about removing traffic from afk players by not allowing Jita as final destination for the autopilot? (Just make em park on the gates to Jita instead) Should also keep the cap more stable near the actual needed limit. Would that help?
Edit: I will link this page to every future thread about Jita limits that I run across. By default then Jita is on the avoidance list so pilots don't 'accidentally' autopilot through Jita. But if people want to go to Jita...
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:56:00 -
[83] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. ^^ +10 I wonder if CCP is ready to reinforce Ammar like they do Jita if it becomes a larger trade hub. There's been outbreaks of TiDi there too in the last few weeks. I seem to recall Dr E saying in a presentation ~2years ago that Ammarr Empire population has been swelling which makes it a good trade hub. We reinforced Amarr on 1 June on hardware in the class below Jita to provide better performance. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
MonkeyMagic Thiesant
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:59:00 -
[84] - Quote
Anniken Geirsdottir wrote:Easy way to deterr local spam/scam-bots:
100k Fibonacci jita local cspa charge.
First message in jita local per day is free. 2nd: 100k 3rd: 100k 4th: 200k 5th: 300k 6th: 500k 7th: 800k 8th: 1.3mil ...
Also not per char or account, but per person (identified by cc or other means.) Also, as need arises, like on saturdays or sundays, factor 10 or 100 could be implemented.
Nicely thought out.
Sure, scamming is a part of the game, but local spamming ruins the usefulness of a channel. CCP should have dealt with them years ago (especially given most will be bots). |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:59:00 -
[85] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:pmchem wrote:CCP Explorer wrote: If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
I think a major concern is that the Jita limit before cap or tidi apparently went _down_ with Odyssey's release. Why was this? And will it also affect the number at which fleet fights are tidi'd? Performance should get better, not worse, in a big release... we all hope! It is known why that is; first of all there is always a different usage profile in Jita in the first week after an expansion. More traffic and since the load is mostly traffic related then we need to lower the cap until tha bump of excitement tapers off. Secondly there were changes to logging we did related to the attacks the weekend before Odyssey that we need to optimise. We hope to do that very soon and then the population cap on Jita will return to normal values. Hope that works, Jita with 2,000-ish population post Odyssey performs quite worst than Jita with 2,300 pop pre-Odissey. Pre-Odyssey the population cap was 2,170. Post-Odyssey it is 2,050; first and foremost because of increased logging, added the day before Odyssey, which we intend to optimise.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Obunagawe
130
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:01:00 -
[86] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:pmchem wrote:CCP Explorer wrote: If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
I think a major concern is that the Jita limit before cap or tidi apparently went _down_ with Odyssey's release. Why was this? And will it also affect the number at which fleet fights are tidi'd? Performance should get better, not worse, in a big release... we all hope! It is known why that is; first of all there is always a different usage profile in Jita in the first week after an expansion. More traffic and since the load is mostly traffic related then we need to lower the cap until tha bump of excitement tapers off. Secondly there were changes to logging we did related to the attacks the weekend before Odyssey that we need to optimise. We hope to do that very soon and then the population cap on Jita will return to normal values. Hope that works, Jita with 2,000-ish population post Odyssey performs quite worst than Jita with 2,300 pop pre-Odissey. Pre-Odyssey the population cap was 2,170. Post-Odyssey it is 2,050; first and foremost because of increased logging, added the day before Odyssey, which we intend to optimise.
Pre-pre-Odyssey, it was 2330. Let us not forget. |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:02:00 -
[87] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. So, if i may ask, why did the load limit seem to drop lower after the patch? New shiney system add more load than expected? Replied here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3170015#post3170015
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14674
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:06:00 -
[88] - Quote
So what's with all the dev answers? Is it post-patch spring break and they finally let you roam free? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:11:00 -
[89] - Quote
Obunagawe wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:pmchem wrote:CCP Explorer wrote: If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
I think a major concern is that the Jita limit before cap or tidi apparently went _down_ with Odyssey's release. Why was this? And will it also affect the number at which fleet fights are tidi'd? Performance should get better, not worse, in a big release... we all hope! It is known why that is; first of all there is always a different usage profile in Jita in the first week after an expansion. More traffic and since the load is mostly traffic related then we need to lower the cap until tha bump of excitement tapers off. Secondly there were changes to logging we did related to the attacks the weekend before Odyssey that we need to optimise. We hope to do that very soon and then the population cap on Jita will return to normal values. Hope that works, Jita with 2,000-ish population post Odyssey performs quite worst than Jita with 2,300 pop pre-Odissey. Pre-Odyssey the population cap was 2,170. Post-Odyssey it is 2,050; first and foremost because of increased logging, added the day before Odyssey, which we intend to optimise. Pre-pre-Odyssey, it was 2330. Let us not forget. Not directly comparable; in the post-Retribution period Jita's TiDi was frequently hitting sub-50% with a population cap of 2,300. On 21 Feb we decided to lower the limit to 2,200 and then further to 2,170 on 22 Feb. The aim was to keep TiDi above 80% and not kick in more often than every 15 minutes on average.
The 2,170 post-Retribution/post-tweaking number is directly comparable to the current 2,050 number. But the cause of that decrease is known and will be addressed. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1518
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:12:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tippia wrote:So what's with all the dev answers? Is it post-patch spring break and they finally let you roam free? Yes, the summer expansion is out and it's a while until winter comes.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14674
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:16:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:So what's with all the dev answers? Is it post-patch spring break and they finally let you roam free? Yes, the summer expansion is out and it's a while until winter comes. I fully expect a Hilmar-as-Eddard GoT photoshop or promo remake as we're getting closer to the winter patch thenGǪ
GǪor has that already happend? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
AtomYcX
Cold Moon Destruction. Transmission Lost
22
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:19:00 -
[92] - Quote
Forgive me if I've missed something but why can't you just throw a bit more hardware at the Jita node? Surely if it's hitting the limit the sensible option would be to beef up the hardware behind that particular node until you can handle the required load? Or is it actually the case that you've hit a limitation in the code that handles ships in space, and it's not a hardware issue?
Not a direct comparison but if the company I work at decided to limit the number of concurrent users connected to our system rather than fix the underlying bottleneck, be it software or hardware, we'd have a lot of angry customers. |
Haulie Berry
992
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:25:00 -
[93] - Quote
AtomYcX wrote:Forgive me if I've missed something but why can't you just throw a bit more hardware at the Jita node? Surely if it's hitting the limit the sensible option would be to beef up the hardware behind that particular node until you can handle the required load? Or is it actually the case that you've hit a limitation in the code that handles ships in space, and it's not a hardware issue?
Not a direct comparison but if the company I work at decided to limit the number of concurrent users connected to our system rather than fix the underlying bottleneck, be it software or hardware, we'd have a lot of angry customers.
Neverminding the fact that the nature of the issue probably makes that impractical, what do you imagine this looking like?
Say they could just linearly scale the node with more hardware. Then what?
They up the population cap, more people go into Jita, now it needs more hardware.
Keep adding hardware until it can support the entire population of Eve concurrently?
Obviously that's impractical.
There's really nothing wrong with Jita. There are a number of entitled kiddies who think that their desire to go to Jita should trump all other concerns, but that's a personal problem. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14674
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:25:00 -
[94] - Quote
AtomYcX wrote:Forgive me if I've missed something but why can't you just throw a bit more hardware at the Jita node? Surely if it's hitting the limit the sensible option would be to beef up the hardware behind that particular node until you can handle the required load? Or is it actually the case that you've hit a limitation in the code that handles ships in space, and it's not a hardware issue? I think it's more that history has shown that it's not a sustainable solution. Throw more hardware at it and people fill it up again, so you have to throw more hardware at it, so people fill it upGǪ
GǪand soon, you have an EVE cluster where 90% of the investment is in the Jita node and everything else is languishing. Instead, they seem to be focusing on solutions that help all systems, and Jita in particular, by improving the performance of the kind of work that slows that node down.
Do you want to throw increasingly large amounts of money at the diminishing returns that more hardware offer, just to solve this unsolvable problem for one system, or do you learn from that one system and improve your code in a way that benefits the entire cluster? The whole GÇ£brain in a boxGÇ¥ solution should help any part of the game where there's a lot of pilot set-ups going on (e.g. large fleet jumps/warp-ins and systems with lots of undocking and jumpingGǪ such as Jita), and while the work done for that certainly costs as well, it is a more long-term solution that affects much more than just a single solar system. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Circumstantial Evidence
66
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:26:00 -
[95] - Quote
On the subject of "nerf chat," I think some players are trying to point out that marketers are drawn to the largest population and audience for their wares. Chat spam makes some people isk due to the large number of players reading it, but the repetition and sheer amount of it annoys legions of others. The goal is not to restrict local chat by some method, with intention of reducing server load just from chat, but to restrict chat so spam-bots have less reason to be there.
Chribba has posted studies of Jita chat patterns, and found that most of it comes from a relatively small number of abusers... so even on that basis of argument, a handful of spam-bots deciding Jita is no longer worth the trouble and leaving in the face of hypothetical chat restrictions, would not reduce system load very much.
(But it would make a lot of people happier if they DID leave.) |
Obunagawe
130
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:28:00 -
[96] - Quote
AtomYcX wrote:Forgive me if I've missed something but why can't you just throw a bit more hardware at the Jita node? Surely if it's hitting the limit the sensible option would be to beef up the hardware behind that particular node until you can handle the required load? Or is it actually the case that you've hit a limitation in the code that handles ships in space, and it's not a hardware issue?
Not a direct comparison but if the company I work at decided to limit the number of concurrent users connected to our system rather than fix the underlying bottleneck, be it software or hardware, we'd have a lot of angry customers.
Jita is apparently single-threaded and already running on a i7 with 5GHz and 64GB RAM. They'd have to work out some way to make it multi-threaded and that will never happen.
|
Suicidal Blonde
Alchemical Aquisitions
52
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:35:00 -
[97] - Quote
Tippia wrote:AtomYcX wrote:Forgive me if I've missed something but why can't you just throw a bit more hardware at the Jita node? Surely if it's hitting the limit the sensible option would be to beef up the hardware behind that particular node until you can handle the required load? Or is it actually the case that you've hit a limitation in the code that handles ships in space, and it's not a hardware issue? I think it's more that history has shown that it's not a sustainable solution. Throw more hardware at it and people fill it up again, so you have to throw more hardware at it, so people fill it upGǪ GǪand soon, you have an EVE cluster where 90% of the investment is in the Jita node and everything else is languishing. Instead, they seem to be focusing on solutions that help all systems, and Jita in particular, by improving the performance of the kind of work that slows that node down. Do you want to throw increasingly large amounts of money at the diminishing returns that more hardware offer, just to solve this unsolvable problem for one system, or do you learn from that one system and improve your code in a way that benefits the entire cluster? The whole Gǣbrain in a boxGǥ solution should help any part of the game where there's a lot of pilot set-ups going on (e.g. large fleet jumps/warp-ins and systems with lots of undocking and jumpingGǪ such as Jita), and while the work done for that certainly costs as well, it is a more long-term solution that affects much more than just a single solar system.
You've mentioned this Brain in a box a couple of times. Have you any links? Enquiring but lazy minds want to know. |
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:39:00 -
[98] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
I saw a suggestion the other day I liked . Just create an inactivity timer for the Jita system only. Log out those characters that have been in a station with no activity for an hour. You could do it just for Jita 4-4.
"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:42:00 -
[99] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out.
Then disregard my post above.
"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |
Condrad Antollare
Nanite Research
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:44:00 -
[100] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away.
I'm pretty sure you missed the point, this thread is about getting into Jita, not Amarr - Please read before posting. |
|
Dave Stark
3121
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:47:00 -
[101] - Quote
Condrad Antollare wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. I'm pretty sure you missed the point, this thread is about getting into Jita, not Amarr - Please read before posting.
and the solution is to move to amarr. i think you missed the point. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
444
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:47:00 -
[102] - Quote
What is this brain in a box thing? Is CCP going to actually make a neural computer? All those poor hamsters, their brains given to science GLORIOUS SCIENCE!!! |
Adunh Slavy
934
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:49:00 -
[103] - Quote
Maybe just start doing some deals in permiter |
Condrad Antollare
Nanite Research
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:53:00 -
[104] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Condrad Antollare wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. I'm pretty sure you missed the point, this thread is about getting into Jita, not Amarr - Please read before posting. and the solution is to move to amarr. i think you missed the point.
How does this make sense?
That is not a solution is a substitute. |
Haulie Berry
992
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:55:00 -
[105] - Quote
Condrad Antollare wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Condrad Antollare wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. I'm pretty sure you missed the point, this thread is about getting into Jita, not Amarr - Please read before posting. and the solution is to move to amarr. i think you missed the point. How does this make sense? That is not a solution is a substitute.
The fact that you cannot get into Jita is a problem for you.
It's not a problem in general.
So, you should find some solution to it for yourself. |
Condrad Antollare
Nanite Research
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:58:00 -
[106] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Condrad Antollare wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Condrad Antollare wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. I'm pretty sure you missed the point, this thread is about getting into Jita, not Amarr - Please read before posting. and the solution is to move to amarr. i think you missed the point. How does this make sense? That is not a solution is a substitute. The fact that you cannot get into Jita is a problem for you. It's not a problem in general. So, you should find some solution to it for yourself.
I have, you've seen this post right? Raising awareness. |
Dave Stark
3121
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:58:00 -
[107] - Quote
Condrad Antollare wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Condrad Antollare wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. I'm pretty sure you missed the point, this thread is about getting into Jita, not Amarr - Please read before posting. and the solution is to move to amarr. i think you missed the point. How does this make sense? That is not a solution is a substitute.
because they're both trade hubs, so if you can't get in to 1 hub to do your business, move to another hub where you can do your business.
you're not there to mine or mission, as far as i'm aware all of the agents and belts were removed, so it's kinda obvious you're there to trade. |
Haulie Berry
992
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:59:00 -
[108] - Quote
Personally, I think they should drop the sec status of all Jita-border systems to .5 and remove all gate proximity restrictions from smartbombs, there. |
Dave Stark
3121
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 22:00:00 -
[109] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Personally, I think they should drop the sec status of all Jita-border systems to .5 and remove all gate proximity restrictions from smartbombs, there.
rancer mk2. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
485
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 22:10:00 -
[110] - Quote
Tippia wrote:AtomYcX wrote:Forgive me if I've missed something but why can't you just throw a bit more hardware at the Jita node? Surely if it's hitting the limit the sensible option would be to beef up the hardware behind that particular node until you can handle the required load? Or is it actually the case that you've hit a limitation in the code that handles ships in space, and it's not a hardware issue? I think it's more that history has shown that it's not a sustainable solution. Throw more hardware at it and people fill it up again, so you have to throw more hardware at it, so people fill it upGǪ GǪand soon, you have an EVE cluster where 90% of the investment is in the Jita node and everything else is languishing. Instead, they seem to be focusing on solutions that help all systems, and Jita in particular, by improving the performance of the kind of work that slows that node down. Do you want to throw increasingly large amounts of money at the diminishing returns that more hardware offer, just to solve this unsolvable problem for one system, or do you learn from that one system and improve your code in a way that benefits the entire cluster? The whole Gǣbrain in a boxGǥ solution should help any part of the game where there's a lot of pilot set-ups going on (e.g. large fleet jumps/warp-ins and systems with lots of undocking and jumpingGǪ such as Jita), and while the work done for that certainly costs as well, it is a more long-term solution that affects much more than just a single solar system.
In the mean time, adjust the transaction taxes according to the amount of good traded in the system. It act as an isk sink and figh the current concentration of trade. Lets be honest, "Jita is laggy as ****" is definately not a good incentive to trade elsewhere or we would have the problem in the first place anyway. Seeding a new market is useless if you have nothing better to offer than "it's not in the cesspit of Jita". The afk hauling remove most of the "it's closer" argument and you can't set lower price since you would be eating the hauling price from Jita to the new market all while hoping your new place catch on. The numbers elsewhere are clear,. people would rather be in oaded Jita than Amarr for example. |
|
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
402
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 22:12:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
Gobble-de-goop
Still, I like the Perimeter Insta. Lower the bar! R.I.P. Vile Rat |
I Need PLEX
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 22:19:00 -
[112] - Quote
WTS two slots in Jita- I will log off both my market guys immediately upon receiving 2b to this characters wallet if you spam 'enter' you'll get in |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14677
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 22:21:00 -
[113] - Quote
Suicidal Blonde wrote:You've mentioned this Brain in a box a couple of times. Have you any links? Enquiring but lazy minds want to know. I've tried to look for it in some dev posts or blogs, but can't find it. It's entirely possible that it has only been discussed at fanfest, which would make searching a lot more horrible. If you look through any of the presentations where CCP Veritas shows up from FF2013 (and possible FF2012), it should pop upGǪ but I can't remember which ones it is, unfortunately.
Basically, from what I understand (and I'm sure some dev will come in and correct a bunch of details) the problem is that setting up a character in-game is fairly processing-intensive. It means collecting all the character data, looking up what all the skills do, checking for implants, looking up what they do, looking up what your ship and all your equipment does, mixing and matching levels to skills to bonuses to attributes to implants to [etc]GǪ and from this GǣbrainGǥ create Ze Pilot as a coherent object to be manipulated in the world. This has to happen every time a pilot enters a node and every time the state of that pilot changes: jumping into a system, undocking, joining a fleet. In large fleets, this massive workload creates issues because on the FC's command, a thousand such brains need to be initialised in rapid succession when they are hotdropped into a fight or when they jump through a gate. Likewise, with the [bleep]ton of people constantly jumping into and undocking in Jita, that's a silly amount of GǣbrainsGǥ that need to be figured out, applied, and set up as pilot-objects every second.
What brain-in-a-box is meant to do is allow the server to side-load all that work. The system node says Gǣoh, hey, this pilot just undocked, give me his statsGǥ, and a separate server does all the above calculations, collects the results in a neat and easy-to-handle Gǣbox,Gǥ and hands it back to the node for further processing. As a best-case scenario, that ready-made brain-in-a-box can be saved between sessions, so when the character jumps from system to system to system, and nothing happens to them, that brain can be saved and just be handed off to the next node without any need for calculations at all. The system node, in turn, then GǣonlyGǥ has to do the work of tracking the stats of that object as it moves around, activates modules, is shot at and generally gets up to no good. But those are constant, small-scale events that are made easy to handle by TiDi, wheras the whole Gǣomg, I have to set up a thousand pilotsGǥ task is a huge spike of one-time computation-intensive work that makes the whole system come to a standstillGǪ and TiDi just makes it stand still for longer until everything is set up in good order.
It's a different kind of load that requires a different kind of solution. It's not something that's all that well served by simply having more hardware GÇö it's a load spike, and more oomph still means spikes, but with more idling in-between. That said, what it should do is allow them to get more out of hardware improvements: it's essentially a multi-threading of the tasks the node has historically had to handle, with one part of the cluster dealing with the pilot setups and a different part handling the on-going processing of pilot activities. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Bexar Ying
Unit 479
18
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 22:32:00 -
[114] - Quote
What steps can be taken to decrease the DESIRE to go to Jita? Have you thought about that? |
Azeroth Uluntil
e X i l e The Initiative.
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 22:35:00 -
[115] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Suicidal Blonde wrote:You've mentioned this Brain in a box a couple of times. Have you any links? Enquiring but lazy minds want to know. I've tried to look for it in some dev posts or blogs, but can't find it. It's entirely possible that it has only been discussed at fanfest, which would make searching a lot more horrible. If you look through any of the presentations where CCP Veritas shows up from FF2013 (and possible FF2012), it should pop upGǪ but I can't remember which ones it is, unfortunately. Basically, from what I understand (and I'm sure some dev will come in and correct a bunch of details) the problem is that setting up a character in-game is fairly processing-intensive. It means collecting all the character data, looking up what all the skills do, checking for implants, looking up what they do, looking up what your ship and all your equipment does, mixing and matching levels to skills to bonuses to attributes to implants to [etc]GǪ and from this GÇ£brainGÇ¥ create Ze Pilot as a coherent object to be manipulated in the world. This has to happen every time a pilot enters a node and every time the state of that pilot changes: jumping into a system, undocking, joining a fleet. In large fleets, this massive workload creates issues because on the FC's command, a thousand such brains need to be initialised in rapid succession when they are hotdropped into a fight or when they jump through a gate. Likewise, with the [bleep]ton of people constantly jumping into and undocking in Jita, that's a silly amount of GÇ£brainsGÇ¥ that need to be figured out, applied, and set up as pilot-objects every second. What brain-in-a-box is meant to do is allow the server to side-load all that work. The system node says GÇ£oh, hey, this pilot just undocked, give me his statsGÇ¥, and a separate server does all the above calculations, collects the results in a neat and easy-to-handle GÇ£box,GÇ¥ and hands it back to the node for further processing. As a best-case scenario, that ready-made brain-in-a-box can be saved between sessions, so when the character jumps from system to system to system, and nothing happens to them, that brain was done five jumps ago and can just be handed off to the next node without any need for calculations at all. The system node, in turn, then GÇ£onlyGÇ¥ has to do the work of tracking the stats of that object as it moves around, activates modules, is shot at and generally gets up to no good. But those are constant, small-scale events that are made easy to handle by TiDi, wheras the whole GÇ£omg, I have to set up a thousand pilotsGÇ¥ task is a huge spike of one-time computation-intensive work that makes the whole system come to a standstillGǪ and TiDi just makes it stand still for longer until everything is set up in good order. It's a different kind of load that requires a different kind of solution. It's not something that's all that well served by simply having more hardware GÇö it's a load spike, and more oomph still means spikes, but with more idling in-between. That said, what it should do is allow them to get more out of hardware improvements: it's essentially a multi-threading of the tasks the node has historically had to handle, with one part of the cluster dealing with the pilot setups and a different part handling the on-going processing of pilot activities.
You, I like. Thanks for providing information.
Seems like a marvelous idea.
I doubt many of you remember when Yulai was the market hub of eve. 2000 people in Yulai? Never happened. Suck it up kids. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
485
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 22:36:00 -
[116] - Quote
Bexar Ying wrote:What steps can be taken to decrease the DESIRE to go to Jita? Have you thought about that?
Taxes |
Pator Campus Slave
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 22:52:00 -
[117] - Quote
Dear CCP, have you considered removing Jita from spawning sites which it currently does? Every little bit helps in getting those hamsters free to do trading, they already don't have to cope with roid belts or PI, please let them rest from sites aswell. |
Haulie Berry
993
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 23:03:00 -
[118] - Quote
Bexar Ying wrote:What steps can be taken to decrease the DESIRE to go to Jita? Have you thought about that?
Don't really see a need to do that, either.
If idiots want to sit on the perimeter gate and complain, I don't see any powerful need to discourage them from that. |
Psychoactive Stimulant
TinklePee
13
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 23:56:00 -
[119] - Quote
Even making Jita a 0.8 system would give another like 5 or so seconds to a gank right? Even that would help the game a lot. Eve needs more ganks, not fewer. More ganks mean higher prices for everyone (good thing) and fewer idiots mining jita belts (i've seen em, you have too).
Also, maybe removing the clone facilities from the system would help too (i didn't read all the posts, this may have been suggested already). |
Sassums
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
102
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:23:00 -
[120] - Quote
Or CCP could spend some money and assign a server more capable or running a higher population cap. It is unacceptable that after 10 years of running time, we have this traffic jam of people try to get in and out of the largest trade hub in the game.
If you are worried about time dilation new hardware is needed. People have better things to do than to play jump games hoping they will be allowed into the system next. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14684
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:29:00 -
[121] - Quote
Sassums wrote:Or CCP could spend some money and assign a server more capable or running a higher population cap. Why should they waste money on such a short-sighted and limited solution? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Haulie Berry
993
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:45:00 -
[122] - Quote
Sassums wrote:People have better things to do than to play jump games hoping they will be allowed into the system next.
Obviously they don't.
Again, the root problem here is that idiots think they "need" to go to Jita, and are willing to queue up to do it. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
238
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:45:00 -
[123] - Quote
Tippia wrote:AtomYcX wrote:Forgive me if I've missed something but why can't you just throw a bit more hardware at the Jita node? Surely if it's hitting the limit the sensible option would be to beef up the hardware behind that particular node until you can handle the required load? Or is it actually the case that you've hit a limitation in the code that handles ships in space, and it's not a hardware issue? I think it's more that history has shown that it's not a sustainable solution. Throw more hardware at it and people fill it up again, so you have to throw more hardware at it, so people fill it upGǪ GǪand soon, you have an EVE cluster where 90% of the investment is in the Jita node and everything else is languishing. Instead, they seem to be focusing on solutions that help all systems, and Jita in particular, by improving the performance of the kind of work that slows that node down. Do you want to throw increasingly large amounts of money at the diminishing returns that more hardware offer, just to solve this unsolvable problem for one system, or do you learn from that one system and improve your code in a way that benefits the entire cluster? The whole Gǣbrain in a boxGǥ solution should help any part of the game where there's a lot of pilot set-ups going on (e.g. large fleet jumps/warp-ins and systems with lots of undocking and jumpingGǪ such as Jita), and while the work done for that certainly costs as well, it is a more long-term solution that affects much more than just a single solar system.
The issue isn't hardware in itself, but as long as the game mechanics don't change, the only solution is to keep adding hardware.
Just like rubbernecking at wrecks slows traffic, no matter how police trying to move people along, folks will still want to gravitate to the site to have a look.
It's both a mechanics issue (trade alts of various stripes and skills parked in one area for convenience in selling), and human nature in a social game.
Other games don't limit sales to local zones and this Jita problem is the reason. If WoW had what EvE has, the crush of players selling/buying in only faction capital cities would crash the realms daily. Blizzard even diversified the capital cities to the extent of killing off dungeons in MoP (instead of standing in Stormwind and queuing up for them all day) to get players back into the world. It takes such drastic measures to get folks out of a "comfort zone", because they won't change on their own...the PEZ is too good to resist.
Each region has it's own trade "capital", there's really no excuse to not diversify players out of Jita, unless -- again -- it's a hardware/tech issue and one CCP would rather control in one area, instead of letting it creep to different zones. As it will creep, as the mechanics in the game help cause it.
Real solutions aren't going to come without "comfort zone" changes and without changing the trade mechanics so this doesn't keep happening. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14684
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:51:00 -
[124] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:The issue isn't hardware in itself, but as long as the game mechanics don't change, the only solution is to keep adding hardware. Eh, no. As already mentioned by the devs, there are other, far better solutions. Redesigning the software to work around its current limitations is far more likely to yield far greater, far more long-lasting, and far more wide-reaching benefits.
In fact, hardware is probably the least useful (and least possible) of all solutions.
Quote:Other games don't limit sales to local zones GǪand neither does EVE. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Haulie Berry
993
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:57:00 -
[125] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:Other games don't limit sales to local zones GǪand neither does EVE.
You're apparently not familiar with this one. He's a themeparker with a preternatural inability to "get" Eve, and is probably hoping the Jita "problem" will be "fixed" by allowing him to purchase anything from anywhere via a universal market and have it delivered to his hangar.
Quote:It's both a mechanics issue (trade alts of various stripes and skills parked in one area for convenience in selling), and human nature in a social game.
As previously mentioned, the people who are just parked aren't actually the problem. Markets, chat, etc. aren't actually on the same node, and an object merely existing in Jita doesn't actually consume all that many clock cycles. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
485
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 03:17:00 -
[126] - Quote
Psychoactive Stimulant wrote:Even making Jita a 0.8 system would give another like 5 or so seconds to a gank right? Even that would help the game a lot. Eve needs more ganks, not fewer. More ganks mean higher prices for everyone (good thing) and fewer idiots mining jita belts (i've seen em, you have too).
Also, maybe removing the clone facilities from the system would help too (i didn't read all the posts, this may have been suggested already).
You really think combat takes less CPU cycle to handle than a ship just passing by? |
Tarn Kugisa
Infinite Covenant Tribal Band
435
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 03:29:00 -
[127] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Asptar Monastair wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing. Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time. Seeing as how markets and contracts and everything is handled on a different node, and chat is on a completely different service altogether, I would say the most work being done by the node would be on the ships in space. So reducing spammers and other docked activities probably wouldn't make much difference. I could be totally wrong though. You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. I think you might need to overclock some nodes I Endorse this Product and/or Service EVE Online Battle Recorder When I press F1 I get ISK |
JamnOne
Jammin Corp
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 03:59:00 -
[128] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:CONCORD should blow up anyone loitering at the gate.
Obviously they're up to no good.
Nah - Concord should hire a bunch of players to clear off the gate and keep the traffic moving smoothly. They can earn positive security status as they would be performing a community service. |
TharOkha
0asis Group
525
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 04:08:00 -
[129] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game.
THIS.. half of jita residents are just scam / spam bots. im not against scamming, but in Jita it means a serious problem if there is a limit of players. Those bots just occupy free slots from this limit and they actually dont play a game. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
99
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 04:34:00 -
[130] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system.
You mean spamming.
Absolutely no chat happens in Jita local.
You know why?
Because its all bots spamming ads and scams.
Chribba has gathered evidence for a long time with his public chat logger for Jita local and nothing has been done.
It's extremely obvious as heck when the same character spams the same message for > 12 hours its a bot.
I'm not even saying its contributing to any server load, I'm just stating that Jita local is useless and may as well be removed due to the fact the number of bots in the channel list compete with the number of bots in certain corps in null.
Edit:
Lets bring out some statistics you cannot deny. Collected by Chribba.
http://themittani.com/features/chribbas-jita-spam-bot-research
http://eve-files.com/chribba/jita2012/ (actual data)
Quote:The top poster said something 58,724 times and 99.93% of it was repetition, only 40 different unique posts. This single character accounted for 1.83% of EVERYTHING said in Jita local over the span of six months
Quote:Not to mention the fact that CSM candidate(s) were using these obvious bots. |
|
AutumnWind1983
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
57
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 04:36:00 -
[131] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Noddy Comet wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. Yet they add to the total population limit, correct? There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
So instead of the useful population of Jita being what the face value is by banning Y amount of spambots, it remains at facevalue - y and CCP is content with this status? James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org |
Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards
330
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 04:48:00 -
[132] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. I don't really care one way or the other as I don't use Jita, but what about upping the hardware? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
TharOkha
0asis Group
525
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 05:21:00 -
[133] - Quote
Jack Tronic wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. You mean spamming. Absolutely no chat happens in Jita local. You know why? Because its all bots spamming ads and scams. Chribba has gathered evidence for a long time with his public chat logger for Jita local and nothing has been done. It's extremely obvious as heck when the same character spams the same message for > 12 hours its a bot. I'm not even saying its contributing to any server load, I'm just stating that Jita local is useless and may as well be removed due to the fact the number of bots in the channel list compete with the number of bots in certain corps in null. Edit:Lets bring out some statistics you cannot deny. Collected by Chribba. http://themittani.com/features/chribbas-jita-spam-bot-researchhttp://eve-files.com/chribba/jita2012/ (actual data) Quote:The top poster said something 58,724 times and 99.93% of it was repetition, only 40 different unique posts. This single character accounted for 1.83% of EVERYTHING said in Jita local over the span of six months Quote:Not to mention the fact that CSM candidate(s) were using these obvious bots.
I sense conspiracy . Jita has become spam/scam-bot paradise, Chribba has provided obvious proof long ago, CCP ignores it in a long run.
They set up the limit for whole Jita instead, because punish players that actually PLAY is much easier than solve the problem with Jita bots once and for all. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
rswfire
Firesworn Firesworn Nation
110
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 05:38:00 -
[134] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like this problem is actually getting worse in the past few weeks. Whenever I log in a character that's stationed in Jita, the log in system tries to get me to move to another system. I won't. I hit ESC and continue to spam until I get in, just like the people do at the gates. I assume this spamming adds some measure of traffic to your nodes also?
The explanation you give is logical and truthful, but it's also only logical and truthful because you don't have the hardware and/or software and/or optimization to make it better. Why don't you address the underlying issue instead so that TiDi does not occur for 2000 pilots? This not only serves Jita but those massive engagements in 0.0, etc.
Just. Fix this. Please. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYAz0aWEzpw http://www.firesworn.com/index.php?/topic/69-about-firesworn-nation/
|
Valen Drax
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 06:38:00 -
[135] - Quote
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. I don't really care one way or the other as I don't use Jita, but what about upping the hardware?
Throwing more hardware at it is not the solution. As it has been said right now the server side is not multithreaded. So that 8 core super chip is only offering one core to Jita...period. You could toss all the chips as you want at Jita, it would not make a difference. They could of course instance Jita...but that would offer way more issues.
More than that, each time someone enters, exits, docks or undocks in the system the system has to recalculate everything that is moderated by skills. This adds even more load that is only going through a single core.
To really make changes they need to have a fully functioning multithread and separate the character calculations from the ship activities. Additionally people need an incentive to spread out a little. Logic would dictate that if Jita is full...maybe people would spread to other hubs. But as it is they stubbornly sit out site wasting time and processor cycles.
So may be Jita needs a hefty entry toll. May be taxes need to be increased to make it less profitable. I do not know this one, but whatever the case, players need to spread out from Jita and move to other hubs to spread the load. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
435
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 06:44:00 -
[136] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system.
Oh well, no problem, they are just innocent spambots then, and you've included them into your calculations :
CCP Explorer wrote:There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
What about still removing them, you know, because botting is a bannable offense ?
G££ <= Me |
Joan Greywind
I Moan ALOT We Moan ALOT
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 06:46:00 -
[137] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Delen Ormand wrote:I can't find the link now, but apparently ships that are on autopilot have priority in the queue.
Oh, and the higher the value of your cargo the better, too.. Agreed. Frieghters with higher value cargo and are on autopilot have priority. They should always be primary(ied).
confirmed I read this somewhere, but for the life of me cant find it |
Oxide Ammar
Aurora Security Transstellar Operations
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 06:47:00 -
[138] - Quote
I don't mind if all the cap used by people that actually using Jita hub, that's good ...why ? because I know they are there to place buy orders or hauling their products to sell they are leaving as soon as they finish what they are doing unlike spamming bots. |
Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
109
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 08:08:00 -
[139] - Quote
Some can't take a hint that they are not wlecome in Jita. |
Oxide Ammar
Aurora Security Transstellar Operations
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 08:32:00 -
[140] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:Other games don't limit sales to local zones GǪand neither does EVE. You're apparently not familiar with this one. He's a themeparker with a preternatural inability to "get" Eve, and is probably hoping the Jita "problem" will be "fixed" by allowing him to purchase anything from anywhere via a universal market and have it delivered to his hangar. Quote:It's both a mechanics issue (trade alts of various stripes and skills parked in one area for convenience in selling), and human nature in a social game.
As previously mentioned, the people who are just parked aren't actually the problem. Markets, chat, etc. aren't actually on the same node, and an object merely existing in Jita doesn't actually consume all that many clock cycles.
What part of this thread you didn't understand ? no one is complaining that spamming bots are causing lags. What are we saying these spamming bots are occupying slots of the Jita cap population. Since they are useless to the rest of EVE community they should deal with that. |
|
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
146
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 09:05:00 -
[141] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:What part of this thread you didn't understand ? no one is complaining that spamming bots are causing lags. What are we saying these spamming bots are occupying slots of the Jita cap population. Since they are useless to the rest of EVE community they should deal with that.
You should try understanding what the Devs said, the population cap s already calculated with the chatters/botters in mind:
Now:
Space for real players: 1600
500 "Botters" (Just to demonstrate, number mustn't be true) 1600 Real players 2100 Population Cap
CCP removes the "Botters":
Space for real players is still 1600
1600 Real Players 1600 Population Cap
Nothing would change for people trying to get in. I wish I were a cat. That way, I could kill things and people would applaud - instead of screaming out "OH GOD NO, NOT MY DAUGHTER!" |
Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
423
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 09:08:00 -
[142] - Quote
Seriously if I was a game dev it's the threads like this that would make me want to shave my head and take to the rooftops. Here are the cliffnotes for the traders that have worked themselves into a frenzy
- Jita is a near permanently reinforced that is already stretched to capacity.
- Spambots are not contributing to the problem
- Spambots are not interfering with the population cap
- The only things doing this is the intensely heavy traffic of ships in flight in space
Is it really so bad to finally admit that the heart of the economy of a whole galaxy has outgrown one starsystem? Surely that is a positive reflection on the sheer juggernaut capitalism that you traders and industrialists drive. TMC Senior Developer http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages |
Oxide Ammar
Aurora Security Transstellar Operations
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 09:51:00 -
[143] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:What part of this thread you didn't understand ? no one is complaining that spamming bots are causing lags. What are we saying these spamming bots are occupying slots of the Jita cap population. Since they are useless to the rest of EVE community they should deal with that. You should try understanding what the Devs said, the population cap s already calculated with the chatters/botters in mind: Now: Space for real players: 1600 500 "Botters" (Just to demonstrate, number mustn't be true) 1600 Real players 2100 Population Cap CCP removes the "Botters": Space for real players is still 1600 1600 Real Players 1600 Population Cap Nothing would change for people trying to get in.
OK so the cap is variable value based on the Botters in Jita, how is the system differentiate between real players and Botters ?
- everyone posting in local chat, system is considering them as Botters. - anyone is posting in local chat with constant time intervals between his posts. - anyone is docked up considered as Botter. - anyone who is afk and docked at Jita is considered as Botter.
|
Djana Libra
The Black Ops S2N Citizens
238
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 12:30:00 -
[144] - Quote
Wes Vyvorant wrote: Ffs ccp just fix jita already. I am not paying to sit at a gate spamming buttons. And While your at it remove local chat cause its unusable anyway.
Well go sell and buy somewhere else, its not that hard.
And please CCP just remove the cap, let them deal with extreme tidi maybe then people will use other systems to trade, sell etc. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1949
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 14:44:00 -
[145] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Asptar Monastair wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing. Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time. Seeing as how markets and contracts and everything is handled on a different node, and chat is on a completely different service altogether, I would say the most work being done by the node would be on the ships in space. So reducing spammers and other docked activities probably wouldn't make much difference. I could be totally wrong though. You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Demolishar
United Aggression
887
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 14:46:00 -
[146] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking.
:effort: |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1949
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 14:48:00 -
[147] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. See my reply above, they don't contribute that much to load. So not the point. ANY load from a EULA violator is unacceptable. Get rid of them. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Algurmane
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 15:44:00 -
[148] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
Here is a thought, buy a bigger better game server. Don't tell us you can't afford it. This "Time Diliation" should be a great big hint your equipment is a little out dated. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
2303
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 15:48:00 -
[149] - Quote
Algurmane wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Here is a thought, buy a bigger better game server. Don't tell us you can't afford it. This "Time Diliation" should be a great big hint your equipment is a little out dated.
It's not the hardware, it's the software, Jita is on the biggest thing the software can presently exploit.
Shouldn't you be defending Fountain instead of worrying about Jita?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 15:53:00 -
[150] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. THIS.. half of jita residents are just scam / spam bots. im not against scamming, but in Jita it means a serious problem if there is a limit of players. Those bots just occupy free slots from this limit and they actually dont play a game. Already replied to this in the thread. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 15:55:00 -
[151] - Quote
AutumnWind1983 wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Noddy Comet wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. Yet they add to the total population limit, correct? There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. So instead of the useful population of Jita being what the face value is by banning Y amount of spambots, it remains at facevalue - y and CCP is content with this status? If we banned Y spambots then we would need to lower the limit to X since that's where the actual load comes from. The cap accounts for the non-contributing pilots.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 15:57:00 -
[152] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:Other games don't limit sales to local zones GǪand neither does EVE. You're apparently not familiar with this one. He's a themeparker with a preternatural inability to "get" Eve, and is probably hoping the Jita "problem" will be "fixed" by allowing him to purchase anything from anywhere via a universal market and have it delivered to his hangar. Quote:It's both a mechanics issue (trade alts of various stripes and skills parked in one area for convenience in selling), and human nature in a social game.
As previously mentioned, the people who are just parked aren't actually the problem. Markets, chat, etc. aren't actually on the same node, and an object merely existing in Jita doesn't actually consume all that many clock cycles. What part of this thread you didn't understand ? no one is complaining that spamming bots are causing lags. What are we saying these spamming bots are occupying slots of the Jita cap population. Since they are useless to the rest of EVE community they should deal with that. If they all went away we would need to lower the cap. The cap accounts for both contributing and non-contributing pilots from a load perspective.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Tollen Gallen
Xionworld
134
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 15:57:00 -
[153] - Quote
This thread
like a broken record |
Zimmy Zeta
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
22329
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 16:02:00 -
[154] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:If we banned Y spambots then we would need to lower the limit to X since that's where the actual load comes from. The cap accounts for the non-contributing pilots.
No offense, Sir, but this sounds a little bit like you exactly knew who the spambots are in Jita. I thought all use of bots would automatically lead to a ban. It shouldn't be a question of "If" but of "when".
just my 2 cents.
Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse |
Terajima Kazumi
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 16:12:00 -
[155] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Algurmane wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Here is a thought, buy a bigger better game server. Don't tell us you can't afford it. This "Time Diliation" should be a great big hint your equipment is a little out dated. It's not the hardware, it's the software, Jita is on the biggest thing the software can presently exploit. Shouldn't you be defending Fountain instead of worrying about Jita? Please tell us all about a game where 2000 dudes can fight each other at once with neither time dilation nor excessive lag. |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 16:22:00 -
[156] - Quote
Robus Muvila wrote:Seriously if I was a game dev it's the threads like this that would make me want to shave my head and take to the rooftops. Here are the cliffnotes for the traders that have worked themselves into a frenzy
- Jita is a near permanently reinforced that is already stretched to capacity.
- Spambots are not contributing to the problem
- Spambots are not interfering with the population cap
- The only things doing this is the intensely heavy traffic of ships in flight in space
Is it really so bad to finally admit that the heart of the economy of a whole galaxy has outgrown one starsystem? Surely that is a positive reflection on the sheer juggernaut capitalism that you traders and industrialists drive. Indeed, no one thing is going to "fix" Jita, multiple things will be needed. We are not going to throw hardware at the problem since there really isn't any better / more suitable hardware on the market and as Tippia has repeatedly explained in this thread then it's not a sustainable solution. That being said, if and when there is better hardware available we will probably buy it, because who doesn't like shiny new hardware...
In the meantime we are working on "Brain in a Box" (details explained by Tippia in this thread) that is primarily meant for coordinated fleet fight jump-ins but will greatly benefit Jita, and you can grow Amarr as an alternative to Jita.
I tweeted recently about Amarr's new hardware https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/340791130104942593 and about how the population of Amarr has grown in recent months https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/343517649927536643 . It had been 500-600 for a long while but is now peaking around 1000. Chribba replied https://twitter.com/Chribba/status/343637496351035392 reminiscing how it used to be only 40-50 (he probably walked a mile in the snow to his Veldnaught at the time). Amarr is still far behind Jita in terms of market volume but it's also significantly ahead of all others. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 16:26:00 -
[157] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:What part of this thread you didn't understand ? no one is complaining that spamming bots are causing lags. What are we saying these spamming bots are occupying slots of the Jita cap population. Since they are useless to the rest of EVE community they should deal with that. You should try understanding what the Devs said, the population cap s already calculated with the chatters/botters in mind: Now: Space for real players: 1600 500 "Botters" (Just to demonstrate, number mustn't be true) 1600 Real players 2100 Population Cap CCP removes the "Botters": Space for real players is still 1600 1600 Real Players 1600 Population Cap Nothing would change for people trying to get in. OK so the cap is variable value based on the Botters in Jita, how is the system differentiate between real players and Botters ? - everyone posting in local chat, system is considering them as Botters ? - anyone is posting in local chat with constant time intervals between his posts? - anyone is posting the same post in local chat repeatedly ? - anyone is docked up considered as Botter ? - anyone who is afk and docked at Jita is considered as Botter ? It's not dynamic, we look at Jita on a regular basis and adjust the value based on the load numbers.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 16:28:00 -
[158] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Asptar Monastair wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing. Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time. Seeing as how markets and contracts and everything is handled on a different node, and chat is on a completely different service altogether, I would say the most work being done by the node would be on the ships in space. So reducing spammers and other docked activities probably wouldn't make much difference. I could be totally wrong though. You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking. Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold). Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1551
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 16:36:00 -
[159] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:If we banned Y spambots then we would need to lower the limit to X since that's where the actual load comes from. The cap accounts for the non-contributing pilots.
No offense, Sir, but this sounds a little bit like you exactly knew who the spambots are in Jita. We don't, we simply look at the load numbers and adjust them to keep the server as busy as possible without too much TiDi. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Pator Campus Slave
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 17:29:00 -
[160] - Quote
Question: Would removing Jita from spawning sites(and handling the rats in them) increase the performance? |
|
Haulie Berry
1001
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 17:42:00 -
[161] - Quote
Pator Campus Slave wrote:Question: Would removing Jita from spawning sites(and handling the rats in them) increase the performance?
Technically, it probably would. I am betting this is a preposterously small fraction of the total load there, there. |
Lexmana
978
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 17:43:00 -
[162] - Quote
Pator Campus Slave wrote:Question: Would removing Jita from spawning sites(and handling the rats in them) increase the performance? I would expect NPCs to not add much load after a quick comparison between Ultra with over 3k NPC kills peak hours and Jita with only 100 but Jita has 3K player jumps and Ultra only 400. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Uitra http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Jita |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 17:45:00 -
[163] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing. Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time. I like this. Spamming bots = pay for the privilege, we don't want to read your ****. visiting to buy or sell something = free. |
Shinzhi Xadi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
49
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 17:51:00 -
[164] - Quote
This is something I have also thought about.
Because Jita is permanently overloaded, CCP should consider removing all rat spawns, belts, and hell, remove the other stations too. Same thing for any POS in Jita. Just strip the system down to bare bones, sun, planets, moons, and ONE station. No rats, no belt to mine, no spawning sites of any kind, and no agents. |
Djana Libra
The Black Ops S2N Citizens
238
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 17:55:00 -
[165] - Quote
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:This is something I have also thought about.
Because Jita is permanently overloaded, CCP should consider removing all rat spawns, belts, and hell, remove the other stations too. Same thing for any POS in Jita. Just strip the system down to bare bones, sun, planets, moons, and ONE station. No rats, no belt to mine, no spawning sites of any kind, and no agents.
Also remove all stations from the system, move all assets in the station there to random stations in eve.
Problem fixed |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
811
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 17:57:00 -
[166] - Quote
There was a point when Jita could handle 2450 I think or at least more than 2300 before it shut the gates, now after Odyssey its 2050. Why? This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Lexmana
978
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 18:00:00 -
[167] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:There was a point when Jita could handle 2450 I think or at least more than 2300 before it shut the gates, now after Odyssey its 2050. Why? AFAIK they have some extra logging going on and perhaps there is a tweak needed somewhere too after odyssey. |
Dave Stark
3144
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 18:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:There was a point when Jita could handle 2450 I think or at least more than 2300 before it shut the gates, now after Odyssey its 2050. Why?
because those 2k players are doing things, and not afk in jita 4-4. |
Shainai
Anomalous Existence Disavowed.
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 19:02:00 -
[169] - Quote
So if the problem isn't with people (bots, scammers, spammers) in jita it's with people undocked in jita... ie the people coming in, leaving and the ones camping the undock for easy kills. There are literally hundreds of people sitting at the undock...This is where a large part of the problem exhists. That is what they need to fix.
Now don't get me wrong I can't stand the local chat as many others can't. For this institute a "Slow" chat function. If you talk more then x times a minute add an amount of time before you are actually able to chat again? Similar to a twitch chat room that has thousounds of people trying to chat. Oh and actually banning the bots wouldn't hurt either :). |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1950
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 22:24:00 -
[170] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking. Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold). In that case banning spambots will help. Banned accounts never log in. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
|
Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
431
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 22:35:00 -
[171] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking. Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold). In that case banning spambots will help. Banned accounts never log in.
It's a one time event. Once the character's data is loaded, it's loaded. It has no effect on the persistent performance of the node. TMC Senior Developer http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages |
Socks the Fox
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 22:52:00 -
[172] - Quote
I vote Rahadalon be the next major trade hub. Get in now while the prices are still insane! You'll make a killing! |
mkint
1045
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 23:39:00 -
[173] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Asptar Monastair wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing.
Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time. Seeing as how markets and contracts and everything is handled on a different node, and chat is on a completely different service altogether, I would say the most work being done by the node would be on the ships in space. So reducing spammers and other docked activities probably wouldn't make much difference. I could be totally wrong though. You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking. Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold). Any possibility of making the system cap dynamic? That person who just logs in and out to do market orders only puts load on the system node for the couple minutes to log in and out. After the person is logged in, seems like it should be okay to push the system cap up by one. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14709
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 23:46:00 -
[174] - Quote
Socks the Fox wrote:EDIT: WRT the "brain-in-a-box" thing: So you're implementing what amounts to a cache of rarely changing data. Might I ask why this wasn't implemented years ago? Actually, the caching is just guessing on my part as something they could conceivably do as well. BiaB is first and foremost a parallelisation of object initialisation. It's entirely possible that it's still too context-sensitive to allow it to be cached. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5517
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 00:13:00 -
[175] - Quote
Could CCP perhaps implement something like, I don't know, kicking people off the server if they're in Jita, docked, and inactive for more than 30 minutes?
I suspect the amount of people sitting idle in Jita is rather high. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
105
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 01:04:00 -
[176] - Quote
How many people simply use Jita as a shortcut to get somewhere else in Caldari space? With Jita on the avoidance list (the default setting for a new accounts) some trips take twice as long, so why not add some gates in surrounding systems that enable the same shortcuts? Which should (in theory) lower the number of people in Jita that aren't there to trade, spam or fight...... |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
322
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 02:25:00 -
[177] - Quote
Quick Jita Solutions (skipping the obvious "throw more hardware" at it when CCP already has the best of the best):
- Ban known bots. C'mon, we know there is a war on bots. You've admitted that you have to compensate for the bots. Go ahead and ban them. We'd understand. Chat bots should count just as well as miners.
- Prevent players from logging off in Jita, and reroute all logins to neighboring systems, all the time. Make this applicable for any system within 90% of working peak (pre TiDi).
- Implement a docking and undocking tax for any station that is in a system near 90% working peak.
- Tax any system that experiences higher trade and market at a higher rate. Then, turn the profit over into FW with obvious increase in faction presence of NPC's and lower isk cost on LP transfers. You trade in a zone, that zone makes money.
- Prevent any system that is 90% working peak from accepting autopilot commands into that system. Autopilot stops at the gate and the player receives a popup and sound notification that their request cannot be processed.
- Auto-log any player afk for more than 10 mins in a TiDi system. If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that? |
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
524
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 03:06:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
it's broke.
fix it.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
Blood Viper Johnson
Somali Coast Guard BootCamp
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 03:08:00 -
[179] - Quote
Why jita and others nearby systems lags soo hard during 2k players ion server? |
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
524
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 03:09:00 -
[180] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Dave Stark wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:This.
If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. See my reply above, they don't contribute that much to load. but if you removed local, they'd have no reason to be *in* jita, so that'd lighten the load, surely? No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away. There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
I don't want you to kill local in Jita, the splatter-chatter is to iconic to ever dream of removing.
However, I think if you killed local chat for 4 weeks I think you would see less traffic in jita. Would be an interesting experiment.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
|
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
524
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 03:11:00 -
[181] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away.
Yea, but over there, they support slavery, ya know.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
524
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 03:12:00 -
[182] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. ^^ +10 I wonder if CCP is ready to reinforce Ammar like they do Jita if it becomes a larger trade hub. There's been outbreaks of TiDi there too in the last few weeks. I seem to recall Dr E saying in a presentation ~2years ago that Ammarr Empire population has been swelling which makes it a good trade hub. actually, they very recently did exactly that to reduce lag in jita, CCP should raise the sales tax there
or let you bribe the gate monitoring crew to let you to the front of the line :P you're always looking for isk-sinks, rite?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
524
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 03:14:00 -
[183] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jita already has its own reinforced node. Its as good as it gets.
everything gets better __ given time.
Might be as good as it can be right now, but how long before it could get better and still be cost effective? or are too much of the funds being diverted to other games?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
524
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 03:15:00 -
[184] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Chic Botany wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. Nice solution - basically CCP can't or won't spring for extra hardware for the jita system so travel another 5(ish) jumps to a different trade hub. Well, then I'd have to have an amarr price checker since I'm based in the forge, to check mineral prices for the stuff I want to build, haul freighters full of minerals an extra 5 jumps, haul the end products the extra 5 jumps back again. Have a proper queue at the gate, when you get there and it's full, you get assigned a slot, and when it's available you automatically jump in, and people logging into jita have the same issue undocking from 4-4 cnap, if there's too many in space then they have to wait. But short of throwing lots more rl isk at the problem for even better servers, I guess there's not much else they can do. TiDi would be on permanently if activated, so that wouldn't really solve the problem, instead of 2k players in system with it running ok(ish) there would be 3k players in system all complaining about the lag. Hey if you want better hardware, pay more. Simple as that. And no Dust is self funding so unless you want to steal from all them, pay for the server you use. Or you know rewrite your software (seriously if you programmed properly it should just be changing one variable or a replace all away) I lived and worked in Amarr for a long time and had no issues doing so Well technically some lowsec near it because I lacked standing
I'd gladly pay more for eve. I know many probably wouldn't be so very happy.
If CCP had done microtransactions instead of macrotransactions in their nex, and given us a few nice cosmetics for our space-ships, they'd be rolling in cash right now.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
524
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 03:20:00 -
[185] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[quote=Suicidal Blonde]You've mentioned this Brain in a box a couple of times. Have you any links?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEJbwZCgNgU&t=1h15m25s
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
191
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 04:15:00 -
[186] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:What part of this thread you didn't understand ? no one is complaining that spamming bots are causing lags. What are we saying these spamming bots are occupying slots of the Jita cap population. Since they are useless to the rest of EVE community they should deal with that. If they all went away we would need to lower the cap. The cap accounts for both contributing and non-contributing pilots from a load perspective. CCP should deal with the spamming characters (eject from Jita and/or ban as is appropriate). Not because doing so would improve TiDi in Jita (I believe Explorer when he says it won't). Not because they are "useless" (although I don't disagree with Oxide's distaste for them). But for the simple reason that not dealing with the spammers makes CCP look incompetent, malignantly uncaring, or both, to the common (non-forum-reading) Eve player.
It's simply a matter of PR for CCP: deal with the spammers and garner some positive PR, or leave them be and be perceived as clowns or douchebags.
MDD |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3529
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 06:26:00 -
[187] - Quote
Setaceous wrote:How many people simply use Jita as a shortcut to get somewhere else in Caldari space? With Jita on the avoidance list (the default setting for a new accounts) some trips take twice as long, so why not add some gates in surrounding systems that enable the same shortcuts? Which should (in theory) lower the number of people in Jita that aren't there to trade, spam or fight......
They did that years ago.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/The_Forge/Jita#sec
Muvolailen to Sobaseki is the only route that receives a significant time savings from travelling through Jita. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Elistea
BLUE Regiment. Y G G D R A S I L
198
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 08:12:00 -
[188] - Quote
Can't get to Jita? Go to Amarr. Population doubled here in last year. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5518
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 12:22:00 -
[189] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Could CCP perhaps implement something like, I don't know, kicking people off the server if they're in Jita, docked, and inactive for more than 30 minutes?
I suspect the amount of people sitting idle in Jita is rather high. Seriously though, this wouldn't fix the problem with lag or anything, but it would certainly reduce the waiting on gates and inability to log into the system. Being unable to enter a system because of a population cap even where a significant portion of users inside the system are doing absolutely nothing (seriously, please do check if you can how many people just sit idle in Jita doing nothing) is not good game design.
The population cap should be for active users who are actually interacting with other players in that system. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Lord Ryan
Donkey Hats
793
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 12:35:00 -
[190] - Quote
Just ban spam bots. Everyone but spam bots wants it.
Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
|
|
Barry Kring
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 12:37:00 -
[191] - Quote
Not being able to log into Jita bothers me more.
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1951
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 13:29:00 -
[192] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jita already has its own reinforced node. Its as good as it gets. everything gets better __ given time. Might be as good as it can be right now, but how long before it could get better and still be cost effective? or are too much of the funds being diverted to other games? The issue is computers are getting better by adding more CPUs, going parallel. The code for one solar system is not written to operate on a parallel machine.
That one way to handle a case like Jita: CCP rewrites the code to make use of multiple cores. But I understand thats a huge undertaking, and may help less than one might think. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1951
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 14:20:00 -
[193] - Quote
Robus Muvila wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking. Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold). In that case banning spambots will help. Banned accounts never log in. It's a one time event. Once the character's data is loaded, it's loaded. It has no effect on the persistent performance of the node. My logging in is also a one time event. Banning a botter would allow someone else to log in. ANY load caused by a EULA violator is unacceptable. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
262
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 14:30:00 -
[194] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. If you can identify the bots--the Y figure--and botting is not allowed under the EULA, why haven't you guys just banned the bots already? I get that scamming is part of the game (a profession?), but botting and spamming local using a bot is disallowed and ought to result in many juicy bans.
|
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
699
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 15:02:00 -
[195] - Quote
remove all non essential assets from space in Jita, make it a "free zone" remove all pos'es, all belts and anomalies/missions, only allow for moons to warp to and such. also remove a few of the "non used" stations, we only really need the 4-4 anyway.(besides production) so increase the jita production slots by what the other stations had. done.. Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Adunh Slavy
937
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 15:36:00 -
[196] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote: ... they don't contribute that much to load.
Could we at least get the feature to auto-block any chat message that contains a link, and be able to set this on a per channel basis?
It's a shame that the most busy systems in the game are full of spam when they should be full of social activity. |
erg cz
Sliperer
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 15:36:00 -
[197] - Quote
Have to say I was very much disappointed, when I traveled that far only to stuck on the last gate. I am new in the game and I wanted to get to Jita more out of academical reasons (and of cause to sell Sarium Magnate, according to eve-central I would get 300 000 more ISK for it there). But I simply could not and that was one of the biiggest reasons, why I start to consider to stop playing this game. The whole life I dreamed about it, finally got my pilot license and now CPP do this to me. WHY ?! |
Haulie Berry
1010
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 16:02:00 -
[198] - Quote
Ruze wrote:Quick Jita Solutions (skipping the obvious "throw more hardware" at it when CCP already has the best of the best):
- Ban known bots. C'mon, we know there is a war on bots. You've admitted that you have to compensate for the bots. Go ahead and ban them. We'd understand. Chat bots should count just as well as miners.
- Prevent players from logging off in Jita, and reroute all logins to neighboring systems, all the time. Make this applicable for any system within 90% of working peak (pre TiDi).
- Implement a docking and undocking tax for any station that is in a system near 90% working peak.
- Tax any system that experiences higher trade and market at a higher rate. Then, turn the profit over into FW with obvious increase in faction presence of NPC's and lower isk cost on LP transfers. You trade in a zone, that zone makes money.
- Prevent any system that is 90% working peak from accepting autopilot commands into that system. Autopilot stops at the gate and the player receives a popup and sound notification that their request cannot be processed.
- Auto-log any player afk for more than 10 mins in a TiDi system.
Look who hasn't read the dev posts in the thread. |
Tollen Gallen
Xionworld
247
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 16:15:00 -
[199] - Quote
CCP any chance you make a Jita sticky so we dont have 3 or 4 of the same Jita type threads a day just because ppl cant be bothered to look past page 1, or in some cases scroll down.
Please |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
340
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 17:12:00 -
[200] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Wes Vyvorant wrote:Delen Ormand wrote:Wes Vyvorant wrote:Ffs ccp just fix jita already. I am not paying to sit at a gate spamming buttons. I'm guessing you actually are, or you wouldn't have posted this :) No i gave up, logged off and posted this sitting at the bbq with a beer. How's Amarr these days? Right now there are 2050 in Jita and 835 in Amarr. We very recently assigned Amarr to better hardware to handle more load.
Listen, if I put up my crap for sale in Jita 4-4, at a competetive price, it seals immediately. No delay. It's gone. I get my ISK real fast. In Amarr, goods move much more slowly. I don't use Jita because I like Jita. I use Jita because everybody else uses Jita.
And no, it's not herd mentality. It's pragmatic. I get a real, genuine, measurable benefit from using Jita instead of a lesser hub such as Dodixie or Amarr. |
|
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
340
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 17:16:00 -
[201] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. Since the problem isn't going away as it's a player choice to trade in one place, how about increasing the hardware to compensate for it? More blades since it's traffic related and not data? If not more hardware, financial incentives to redistribute the load? Because truthfully every faction zone should have their trade capital. Ferrying goods from Amarr or Gallente space to Jita to sale is not only a resource hog, it's a time hog.
Yes, it would make perfect sense to raise the trading tax in hubs. Raise it slightly in the 3-4 lesser hubs, and raise it drastically in Jita. Maybe double it in the lesser hubs (a x2 multiplier to the base value, skillz have x2 effect), and triple is in Jita (x3 multiplier to base value, skillz have x3 effect).
That'll create som incentive for everyone to consider conducting their business elsewhere. As opposed to me as a sole individual being fed up with it and trying to set up somehere else, and suffering the slow economy of a non-hub station.
|
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
340
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 17:30:00 -
[202] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Condrad Antollare wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. I'm pretty sure you missed the point, this thread is about getting into Jita, not Amarr - Please read before posting. and the solution is to move to amarr. i think you missed the point.
But the problem isn't that I'm in amarr instead of Jita. The problem is that at least 10 times as much business, and probably more correctly 30-40 times as much business, is in Jita as is in Amarr. The problem isn't me being in Jita. The problem is everyone else being in Jita.
If I want to sell something, I can travel to Jita and sell is real fast, or I can travel to Amarr and put it up for sale, and maybe i'll be gone in a couple of days, eve if I massively underbid everybody ele
If I want to buy something, most often several different semi-obscure or are items, I can travel to Jita and buy it immediately from existing Buy Orders, at competetive prices, or I can travel to Amarr, and if I'm lucky half the items are actually available for sale, but at non-competetive prices, and even then I'll still have to put up Buy Orders for the other semi-obscure or rare stuff that I want, and wait a week or longer to get them filled.
I am completely powerless to solve this problem. I have no power to solve it. CCP, via changes - nay, improvements - to the game design, do have power to solve the problem. They can add differentaited station taxes. They can add stargate fees. They can do something that has an actual effect on the behaviour of the player mass. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1110
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 17:38:00 -
[203] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr is only like 8 jumps away. ^^ +10 I wonder if CCP is ready to reinforce Ammar like they do Jita if it becomes a larger trade hub. There's been outbreaks of TiDi there too in the last few weeks. I seem to recall Dr E saying in a presentation ~2years ago that Ammarr Empire population has been swelling which makes it a good trade hub. We reinforced Amarr on 1 June on hardware in the class below Jita to provide better performance.
+10 Cool beans now there needs to be a player mentlity shift to support a 2nd major HUB. An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Socks the Fox
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 20:53:00 -
[204] - Quote
Obunagawe wrote: Jita is apparently single-threaded and already running on a i7 with 5GHz and 64GB RAM. They'd have to work out some way to make it multi-threaded and that will never happen.
That's not true. There's no way that's true. Please don't let that be true.
CCP Explorer, is that really true? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14726
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 21:06:00 -
[205] - Quote
Socks the Fox wrote:Obunagawe wrote: Jita is apparently single-threaded and already running on a i7 with 5GHz and 64GB RAM. They'd have to work out some way to make it multi-threaded and that will never happen.
That's not true. There's no way that's true. Please don't let that be true. CCP Explorer, is that really true? Which part? It's true that large portions of the code is a single-threaded and that one of the main obstacles right now is the inability to make use of multiple cores for a single system (or even split it up into one core per grid or some other logical subdivision). That's why throwing more hardware at the problem solves almost nothing.
It's also why they're looking more into cutting out large chunks and kind-of-multithread it by offloading certain tasks onto specialised servers GÇö brain-in-a-box and the distributed dispatcher are two of those monolithic blocks of non-system-specific tasks that could be done by somewhere else than within the main solar system loop. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Doc Spectre
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 21:10:00 -
[206] - Quote
Um.... It's a closely guarded secret that the Jita Server is an old 8088XT with a 10 Megabyte MFM hard drive. Running DOS 1.0... So relax, its as good as it gets... |
Malak Dawnfire
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
265
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 21:18:00 -
[207] - Quote
If Jita is full how will I travel there to stay with my family for the 4th of July this year!??!? CCP DO SOMETHING |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3535
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 01:15:00 -
[208] - Quote
Socks the Fox wrote:Obunagawe wrote: Jita is apparently single-threaded and already running on a i7 with 5GHz and 64GB RAM. They'd have to work out some way to make it multi-threaded and that will never happen.
That's not true. There's no way that's true. Please don't let that be true. CCP Explorer, is that really true?
Multithreading provides limited benefit when the order of operations is critical. The overhead for checking that everything's being reported in the same order is generally quite large.
Guess what, order of operations in space in EVE are critical, so... This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Raiz Nhell
Veni Vidi Vici Reloaded Darkspawn.
285
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 01:28:00 -
[209] - Quote
Would love for people to realise that Jita is not the be all and end all... There is nothing special about Jita... apart from the fact that it has a pop cap...
If you are so desperate for the Jita market then dock up in Perimeter... 1-5 jumps isn't exactly a massively big deal... I always set my market to show the region.
There is no such thing as a fair fight...
If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage. |
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
178
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 02:08:00 -
[210] - Quote
Condrad Antollare wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Noddy Comet wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. Yet they add to the total population limit, correct? There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. Get a better server? I thought this was a sandbox but apparently the devs are trying to put a hold on economic growth in Jita
There are more people in Jita at peak than a world of warcraft realm can handle in total. The amount of processing needed for Jita is phenomenal. The next needed step really to "solve" Jita would be to rewrite the entire game. The next best thing is what they are doing, while encouraging people to explore other hubs (Amarr finally qualified for its own node so could handle Jita like traffic now for example). |
|
Noddy Comet
Lysdexic Agnostics - Thier is no Dog
58
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 10:52:00 -
[211] - Quote
Fact:
If everyone went to Ammar instead of Jita, the spambots would never figure it out and follow which would solve everyone's problem here.
LETSDOOEEET!
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1567
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 19:31:00 -
[212] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:There was a point when Jita could handle 2450 I think or at least more than 2300 before it shut the gates, now after Odyssey its 2050. Why? The all time record in Jita is 2,400. Otherwise replied to here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3171380#post3171380 Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 19:37:00 -
[213] - Quote
I dont care if you increase the Jita pop cap to 3000. JUST DO IT.
It's a trade hub for gods sake, it's not PVP grounds.
If it takes 3 seconds to perform an action in Jita I'll take that any day over the fact that I never can get into Jita during primetime.
If you lock people out of Jita you're hindering the player driven world by forcing people to use other trade hubs against their will. Teonosude. |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1571
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 19:37:00 -
[214] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. If you can identify the bots--the Y figure--and botting is not allowed under the EULA, why haven't you guys just banned the bots already? I get that scamming is part of the game (a profession?), but botting and spamming local using a bot is disallowed and ought to result in many juicy bans. Replied to here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3175100#post3175100 Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
56
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 19:39:00 -
[215] - Quote
Here's a novel idea that I'll get yelled at for saying: use a different trade hub. CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty...
|
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1571
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 19:40:00 -
[216] - Quote
Socks the Fox wrote:Obunagawe wrote:Jita is apparently single-threaded and already running on a i7 with 5GHz and 64GB RAM. They'd have to work out some way to make it multi-threaded and that will never happen. That's not true. There's no way that's true. Please don't let that be true. CCP Explorer, is that really true? A solarsystem is the smallest load balancing unit and is a single-threaded process. We are working on one project to offload a lot of the work to another process (see Brain in a Box in this thread) and have more ideas that we intend to look at a later date. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
267
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 19:57:00 -
[217] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. If you can identify the bots--the Y figure--and botting is not allowed under the EULA, why haven't you guys just banned the bots already? I get that scamming is part of the game (a profession?), but botting and spamming local using a bot is disallowed and ought to result in many juicy bans. Replied to here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3175100#post3175100 Which is it? Do you guys know who the spambots are or not? Here (quoted link from above), you say you don't know, but below you say that you know how many spambots you have. If you know how many spambots you have--meaning you can identify a spambot over a player--then where is the disconnect from identifying the actual spambots and banning them? "Ok, we know *this* is a player (causing load) and *this* is a bot." << Bingo! Ban the bot.
CCP Explorer wrote:No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
|
Rhnra Pahineh
Dark Intruders Command Apocalypse Now.
7
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:04:00 -
[218] - Quote
The issue of Jita isn't the number of players, but the virtually unlimited volume of goods allowed in the market. By putting a quota on the volume or introducing a new tax, starting a 0% and increasing with the volume if that last is bigger than a step. As said earlier in this thread: there are a lot of systems around jita that could be used to balance the load. But multi-threading is probably better, up to a point maybe? |
Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
179
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:05:00 -
[219] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold). Do you really care about our skills and what ship we are in? After all you check that when we try to undock isn't it?
|
Haulie Berry
1030
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:09:00 -
[220] - Quote
Tanaka Aiko wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold). Do you really care about our skills and what ship we are in? After all you check that when we try to undock isn't it?
Uh... yes? Obviously? Many skills still have an impact while docked (e.g., trade skills), and, as mentioned, many of your ship stats are still relevant while docked (fitting stats, cargohold, etc.). |
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1955
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:33:00 -
[221] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. If you can identify the bots--the Y figure--and botting is not allowed under the EULA, why haven't you guys just banned the bots already? I get that scamming is part of the game (a profession?), but botting and spamming local using a bot is disallowed and ought to result in many juicy bans. Replied to here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3175100#post3175100 Which is it? Do you guys know who the spambots are or not? Here (quoted link from above), you say you don't know, but below you say that you know how many spambots you have. If you know how many spambots you have--meaning you can identify a spambot over a player--then where is the disconnect from identifying the actual spambots and banning them? "Ok, we know *this* is a player (causing load) and *this* is a bot." << Bingo! Ban the bot. CCP Explorer wrote:No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. They do not know who the bots are or how many there are. What they do know is when security figures it out and bans them, the Jita cap will have to be adjusted down by about the number of bots banned. For example if Security bans 100 bots, then the cap will have to be dropped by about 100 to prevent Jita from entering TiDi.
Im hoping it can be dropped by less than 100, making room for more players. The bots may be causing only a little load, they are causing more than no load. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1572
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:31:00 -
[222] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. If you can identify the bots--the Y figure--and botting is not allowed under the EULA, why haven't you guys just banned the bots already? I get that scamming is part of the game (a profession?), but botting and spamming local using a bot is disallowed and ought to result in many juicy bans. Replied to here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3175100#post3175100 Which is it? Do you guys know who the spambots are or not? Here (quoted link from above), you say you don't know, but below you say that you know how many spambots you have. If you know how many spambots you have--meaning you can identify a spambot over a player--then where is the disconnect from identifying the actual spambots and banning them? "Ok, we know *this* is a player (causing load) and *this* is a bot." << Bingo! Ban the bot. CCP Explorer wrote:No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. I never said we knew what X and Y are. We know what X+Y is, that's currently 2,050 and it's breaks down into some number of active pilots (X) and some number of inactive / non-load-contributing pilots (Y). Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
Obunagawe
134
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:34:00 -
[223] - Quote
Currently out of the 2050 pilots in Jita, 1,866 are docked in 4-4. |
mkint
1045
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 22:02:00 -
[224] - Quote
Mycool Jahksn wrote:I dont care if you increase the Jita pop cap to 3000. JUST DO IT.
It's a trade hub for gods sake, it's not PVP grounds.
If it takes 3 seconds to perform an action in Jita I'll take that any day over the fact that I never can get into Jita during primetime.
If you lock people out of Jita you're hindering the player driven world by forcing people to use other trade hubs against their will. What would happen to jita if no modules could be activated in space? Or, what would happen to jita, if as soon as you jumped in, you were automatically docked? If there was no space in Jita, just station? Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Radelix Cisko
Rayn Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
107
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 00:29:00 -
[225] - Quote
mkint wrote:Mycool Jahksn wrote:I dont care if you increase the Jita pop cap to 3000. JUST DO IT.
It's a trade hub for gods sake, it's not PVP grounds.
If it takes 3 seconds to perform an action in Jita I'll take that any day over the fact that I never can get into Jita during primetime.
If you lock people out of Jita you're hindering the player driven world by forcing people to use other trade hubs against their will. What would happen to jita if no modules could be activated in space? Or, what would happen to jita, if as soon as you jumped in, you were automatically docked? If there was no space in Jita, just station?
Then valuable wartargets would be denied the ability to blap me and vice versa. I cannot abide. Exploring this further I prefer that Jita is more like a middle eastern bazaar rather than a mall in Schaumburg, IL, Keeps me on my toes. |
Caol Ile
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 07:10:00 -
[226] - Quote
The easy solution would be to remove the empire superhighways again. Jita is the one and only market hub because no matter where you are in empire Jita is no more than 10-15 jumps away.
If you removed the superhighways I bet we'd see trade spread out more across Jita/Amarr/Rens/Dodixie again, and the problem of everyone dogpiling into Jita would go away.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3667
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 07:15:00 -
[227] - Quote
Radelix Cisko wrote:mkint wrote:Mycool Jahksn wrote:I dont care if you increase the Jita pop cap to 3000. JUST DO IT.
It's a trade hub for gods sake, it's not PVP grounds.
If it takes 3 seconds to perform an action in Jita I'll take that any day over the fact that I never can get into Jita during primetime.
If you lock people out of Jita you're hindering the player driven world by forcing people to use other trade hubs against their will. What would happen to jita if no modules could be activated in space? Or, what would happen to jita, if as soon as you jumped in, you were automatically docked? If there was no space in Jita, just station? Then valuable wartargets would be denied the ability to blap me and vice versa. I cannot abide. Exploring this further I prefer that Jita is more like a middle eastern bazaar rather than a mall in Schaumburg, IL, Keeps me on my toes. Let's make Jita truly safe. I am a nullsec zealot. |
Condrad Antollare
Nanite Research
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 08:54:00 -
[228] - Quote
I could see a sort of emergent change to Jita as a hub being made, if traders started moving to say Permieter for Minerals, Ores and Raw Materials as a general rule - and that was where most if not all of that resource was bought and sold from then you would have everything else in Jita. Eventually it would be a Market Super Constellation. You could have 3 systems around Jita specializing in a few different market areas. Granted this is a negative point when it comes to convenience, but you can still sit in station and do all your orders from there - which is much better than these ridicious "Go to Amarr" comments. |
Gilhelmi
Top Snipe's School of Engineering R.E.P.O.
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 10:02:00 -
[229] - Quote
Go to Hek, as good of selection as Jita (in my humble opinion).
I do most of my buying/selling there so I might be slightly biased, but then I have never waited at a gate either. |
Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
187
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 10:55:00 -
[230] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
So...you repeatedly acknowledge these people as bots...even using the word bot to refer to them half a dozen times....but then dismiss them as non-harmful since they're not contributing a lot to the load, and say there's no reason to get rid of them since you'd just then have to lower the cap an equal amount
The EULA is just a "Unless it taxes the server" thing now, then?
Botting is cool with devs now, as long as it's shitting up Jita local?
And yes, I read https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3175100#post3175100 and https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3187547#post3187547 too - but if you want to seriously tell me you can't tell which ones are bots and which aren't, you're boldfaced lying. All the rest of us can figure it out with a fraction of the tools and access that you have.
CCP is, always has been, and sadly always will be soft on RMT and bot bans. The rampant overflowing number of them in Jita local, run without disguise or guile for months and months and months, says the entire player base realizes it.
But I admit I still held a tiny hope that the devs would at least pretend to give lip service to thinking banning bots was a good idea, rather than just saying "Nahhh, then we'd just have to change the cap - and who wants to do that?!"
The more fool, I. |
|
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
235
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 11:58:00 -
[231] - Quote
Condrad Antollare wrote:As much as we all enjoy sitting on the Perimeter gate into Jita, is it not time to raise the Jita population limit? Chribba keeps a rather interesting tally of the spambots in Jita. If something were done about them, there wouldn't be a problem with Jita. |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
717
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 12:02:00 -
[232] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Eve: Yeah, this system is full. Why don't you **** off to somewhere else? i have read somewhere that Eve Online Universe is one solid place.
|
DreznicK
OORt Cloud Research The OORT Cloud
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 12:21:00 -
[233] - Quote
SO just out of curiosity.
IS it the number of players in Jita. Chat in local Or actual market activity that is currently causing the issues.
I remember a Dev blog maybe a year or so back where you broke it down. But there has been a lot of changes to the code sense then so I am wondering what your biggest pain is right now.
I realize that by simply removing the number of players obviously effects everything but if someone is just sitting in station they shouldn't be effecting the server all that much, I would think actions or calls to the server / servers would be the bottleneck. (which doesn't really narrow it down at all) |
Jin d'SaanGo
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 12:39:00 -
[234] - Quote
I welcome the Jita population limit. It nicely depicts population / production / business limits we can experience in our real life.
Otherwise we would have just one company producing in one place the goods sold in the one and only city of the planet in one gigantic superstore. |
Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
256
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 13:21:00 -
[235] - Quote
Step 1: Go to Dixie Rens Hek or Amarr Step 2: Sell your stuff for the same price you would at jita Step 3: ???? Step 4: PROFIT!!!! |
Murderphache
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 13:54:00 -
[236] - Quote
Jayrendo Karr wrote:Step 1: Go to Dixie Rens Hek or Amarr Step 2: Sell your stuff for the same price you would at jita Step 3: ???? Step 4: PROFIT!!!!
It's virtually impossible to detect spambots as bots, even if CCP knows they are a bot, they might not have evidence enough to ban or kick or whatever.
Are you kidding me? virtually impossible? Chribba alone has gathered enough information to prove it. He also is just an outsider with no special tools to help him other than ones he has created. Give me a break it is painfully obvious when a 'character' sends the exact same message (same spelling and everything no typos) for hours and hours everyday like clockwork every 20-30seconds.
There are alternatives to the issue like other hubs but ffs do not for one minute accept bots because oh well cant do anything about it |
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
221
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 14:16:00 -
[237] - Quote
Abditus Cularius wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
So...you repeatedly acknowledge these people as bots...even using the word bot to refer to them half a dozen times....but then dismiss them as non-harmful since they're not contributing a lot to the load, and say there's no reason to get rid of them since you'd just then have to lower the cap an equal amount The EULA is just a "Unless it taxes the server" thing now, then? Botting is cool with devs now, as long as it's shitting up Jita local? And yes, I read https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3175100#post3175100 and https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3187547#post3187547 too - but if you want to seriously tell me you can't tell which ones are bots and which aren't, you're boldfaced lying. All the rest of us can figure it out with a fraction of the tools and access that you have. CCP is, always has been, and sadly always will be soft on RMT and bot bans. The rampant overflowing number of them in Jita local, run without disguise or guile for months and months and months, says the entire player base realizes it. But I admit I still held a tiny hope that the devs would at least pretend to give lip service to thinking banning bots was a good idea, rather than just saying "Nahhh, then we'd just have to change the cap - and who wants to do that?!" The more fool, I.
Just my 2 cents:
Yes, CCP doesn't care much about spam bots (though they HAVE been targeted by ban waves in the past), they see them as low priority ... and you know what? I agree!
(And that is even as a trader, who spends quite a bit of time in Jita.)
Spam bots have almost nothing to do with RMT. You think they make lots of money? They don't. Mining & Mission bots have vastly more income (but are also more complicated to make, which matters little for even a semi-professinoal RMT setup).
So who are those spam bots? Mostly people who figure out (correctly) that a spam bot can be written with a few very simple scripting tools (or even with the help of some keyboard drivers/macros). They make a bit of a side income (violating the EULA on the way).
So, yes. CCP doesn't care much for investing time to deal with spam bots (though they think they are illegal and do ban some on occasion). And they are right insofar as spam bots have nothing to do with RMT and ISK sellers. CCP has actually been pretty tough on those - compared with other members of the industry we could name & shame.
|
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
8579
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 14:17:00 -
[238] - Quote
Murderphache wrote:Jayrendo Karr wrote:Step 1: Go to Dixie Rens Hek or Amarr Step 2: Sell your stuff for the same price you would at jita Step 3: ???? Step 4: PROFIT!!!!
It's virtually impossible to detect spambots as bots, even if CCP knows they are a bot, they might not have evidence enough to ban or kick or whatever. Are you kidding me? virtually impossible? Chribba alone has gathered enough information to prove it. He also is just an outsider with no special tools to help him other than ones he has created. Give me a break it is painfully obvious when a 'character' sends the exact same message (same spelling and everything no typos) for hours and hours everyday like clockwork every 20-30seconds. There are alternatives to the issue like other hubs but ffs do not for one minute accept bots because oh well cant do anything about it @Jayrendo, like mentioned, impossible to detect, hardly. As for CCP taking actions, I hope you realize we have no legal say in any action they take right? You accepted the EULA which pretty much removes any right you may think you have regarding them banning you. They are free to do whatever they like for any reason without having to explain themselves - although banning someone without reason or communicating it may not be the best way to handle customers PR wise.
( PS http://eve-files.com/chribba/jita2012/ )
/c
|
|
Rixiu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
128
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 14:29:00 -
[239] - Quote
Abditus Cularius wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
So...you repeatedly acknowledge these people as bots...even using the word bot to refer to them half a dozen times....but then dismiss them as non-harmful since they're not contributing a lot to the load, and say there's no reason to get rid of them since you'd just then have to lower the cap an equal amount The EULA is just a "Unless it taxes the server" thing now, then? Botting is cool with devs now, as long as it's shitting up Jita local? And yes, I read https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3175100#post3175100 and https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3187547#post3187547 too - but if you want to seriously tell me you can't tell which ones are bots and which aren't, you're boldfaced lying. All the rest of us can figure it out with a fraction of the tools and access that you have. CCP is, always has been, and sadly always will be soft on RMT and bot bans. The rampant overflowing number of them in Jita local, run without disguise or guile for months and months and months, says the entire player base realizes it. But I admit I still held a tiny hope that the devs would at least pretend to give lip service to thinking banning bots was a good idea, rather than just saying "Nahhh, then we'd just have to change the cap - and who wants to do that?!" The more fool, I.
You was never any good at math were you? X and Y are unknown variables, they know that X+Y=2070 which is also the cap of Jita (or maybe it was 2170). Had they been known he would have said 2000+70=2070. X and Y are real numbers that's why he's refering to them as such but they are unknown. You make it sound as if CCP know how many spambots there are and choose to ignore them, that's not what he said. How hard they are to find and so on is another question but performance wise it seem to be a non issue since banning 50 bots would simply result in CCP having to lower the pop cap to 2020 instead of 2070. |
Rammix
TheMurk
73
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 15:14:00 -
[240] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Robus Muvila wrote:Seriously if I was a game dev it's the threads like this that would make me want to shave my head and take to the rooftops. Here are the cliffnotes for the traders that have worked themselves into a frenzy
- Jita is a near permanently reinforced that is already stretched to capacity.
- Spambots are not contributing to the problem
- Spambots are not interfering with the population cap
- The only things doing this is the intensely heavy traffic of ships in flight in space
Is it really so bad to finally admit that the heart of the economy of a whole galaxy has outgrown one starsystem? Surely that is a positive reflection on the sheer juggernaut capitalism that you traders and industrialists drive. Indeed, no one thing is going to "fix" Jita, multiple things will be needed. We are not going to throw hardware at the problem since there really isn't any better / more suitable hardware on the market and as Tippia has repeatedly explained in this thread then it's not a sustainable solution. That being said, if and when there is better hardware available we will probably buy it, because who doesn't like shiny new hardware... In the meantime we are working on "Brain in a Box" (details explained by Tippia in this thread) that is primarily meant for coordinated fleet fight jump-ins but will greatly benefit Jita, and you can grow Amarr as an alternative to Jita. I tweeted recently about Amarr's new hardware https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/340791130104942593 and about how the population of Amarr has grown in recent months https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/343517649927536643 . It had been 500-600 for a long while but is now peaking around 1000. Chribba replied https://twitter.com/Chribba/status/343637496351035392 reminiscing how it used to be only 40-50 (he probably walked a mile in the snow to his Veldnaught at the time). Amarr is still far behind Jita in terms of market volume but it's also significantly ahead of all others.
Maybe there is some way to change eve universe from a pile of solar systems into something less "sharded" - to be more correct, I mean breaking the universe into pieces smaller than solar systems. Like several sectors per system. Above load distribution it could also allow interstellar warp-like travel without usage of gates - for some distant future.
Talking about Jita, such sector-based division of the system would put different gates in different sectors thus distributing some load. It would also mean that people can enter the system; and if the jita 4-4 station's sector is overloaded they can't warp to it but they still can hide on a spot or use another station. And it means division of overall trading traffic between 2 or more stations within the same system. OpenSUSE 12.2, wine 1.5 |
|
iskflakes
510
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 15:32:00 -
[241] - Quote
There are two classes of pilots, contributing and non-contributing. Could the population cap distinguish between them? Allow people to log in and trade on the market, but give them traffic control when undocking. It should be simple enough to check whether a pilot is in space or docked when they log in, though this would not help if it turns out logging in causes lag.
There are also game design options that could be pursued. You could for example add cloning facilities to the 4,4 station (which would reduce the number of people who have to undock, fly to the cloning station, then fly back to 4,4 again). That means less pilots in space. You could disable kill-rights on grid with 4,4 due to overpopulation, which will encourage the highsec PVPers to move to somewhere else (maybe Perimeter?).
I appreciate all the dev replies to this thread btw. - |
Radelix Cisko
Rayn Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
107
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 15:33:00 -
[242] - Quote
Rammix wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Robus Muvila wrote:Seriously if I was a game dev it's the threads like this that would make me want to shave my head and take to the rooftops. Here are the cliffnotes for the traders that have worked themselves into a frenzy
- Jita is a near permanently reinforced that is already stretched to capacity.
- Spambots are not contributing to the problem
- Spambots are not interfering with the population cap
- The only things doing this is the intensely heavy traffic of ships in flight in space
Is it really so bad to finally admit that the heart of the economy of a whole galaxy has outgrown one starsystem? Surely that is a positive reflection on the sheer juggernaut capitalism that you traders and industrialists drive. Indeed, no one thing is going to "fix" Jita, multiple things will be needed. We are not going to throw hardware at the problem since there really isn't any better / more suitable hardware on the market and as Tippia has repeatedly explained in this thread then it's not a sustainable solution. That being said, if and when there is better hardware available we will probably buy it, because who doesn't like shiny new hardware... In the meantime we are working on "Brain in a Box" (details explained by Tippia in this thread) that is primarily meant for coordinated fleet fight jump-ins but will greatly benefit Jita, and you can grow Amarr as an alternative to Jita. I tweeted recently about Amarr's new hardware https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/340791130104942593 and about how the population of Amarr has grown in recent months https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/343517649927536643 . It had been 500-600 for a long while but is now peaking around 1000. Chribba replied https://twitter.com/Chribba/status/343637496351035392 reminiscing how it used to be only 40-50 (he probably walked a mile in the snow to his Veldnaught at the time). Amarr is still far behind Jita in terms of market volume but it's also significantly ahead of all others. Maybe there is some way to change eve universe from a pile of solar systems into something less "sharded" - to be more correct, I mean breaking the universe into pieces smaller than solar systems. Like several sectors per system. Above load distribution it could also allow interstellar warp-like travel without usage of gates - for some distant future. Talking about Jita, such sector-based division of the system would put different gates in different sectors thus distributing some load. It would also mean that people can enter the system; and if the jita 4-4 station's sector is overloaded they can't warp to it but they still can hide on a spot or use another station. And it means division of overall trading traffic between 2 or more stations within the same system.
Jita is full, CCP isnt going to rewrite the game just yet. Go to other hubs. I hear its a big game
So get out
|
Rammix
TheMurk
73
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 15:43:00 -
[243] - Quote
Radelix Cisko wrote:Rammix wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Robus Muvila wrote:Seriously if I was a game dev it's the threads like this that would make me want to shave my head and take to the rooftops. Here are the cliffnotes for the traders that have worked themselves into a frenzy
- Jita is a near permanently reinforced that is already stretched to capacity.
- Spambots are not contributing to the problem
- Spambots are not interfering with the population cap
- The only things doing this is the intensely heavy traffic of ships in flight in space
Is it really so bad to finally admit that the heart of the economy of a whole galaxy has outgrown one starsystem? Surely that is a positive reflection on the sheer juggernaut capitalism that you traders and industrialists drive. Indeed, no one thing is going to "fix" Jita, multiple things will be needed. We are not going to throw hardware at the problem since there really isn't any better / more suitable hardware on the market and as Tippia has repeatedly explained in this thread then it's not a sustainable solution. That being said, if and when there is better hardware available we will probably buy it, because who doesn't like shiny new hardware... In the meantime we are working on "Brain in a Box" (details explained by Tippia in this thread) that is primarily meant for coordinated fleet fight jump-ins but will greatly benefit Jita, and you can grow Amarr as an alternative to Jita. I tweeted recently about Amarr's new hardware https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/340791130104942593 and about how the population of Amarr has grown in recent months https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/343517649927536643 . It had been 500-600 for a long while but is now peaking around 1000. Chribba replied https://twitter.com/Chribba/status/343637496351035392 reminiscing how it used to be only 40-50 (he probably walked a mile in the snow to his Veldnaught at the time). Amarr is still far behind Jita in terms of market volume but it's also significantly ahead of all others. Maybe there is some way to change eve universe from a pile of solar systems into something less "sharded" - to be more correct, I mean breaking the universe into pieces smaller than solar systems. Like several sectors per system. Above load distribution it could also allow interstellar warp-like travel without usage of gates - for some distant future. Talking about Jita, such sector-based division of the system would put different gates in different sectors thus distributing some load. It would also mean that people can enter the system; and if the jita 4-4 station's sector is overloaded they can't warp to it but they still can hide on a spot or use another station. And it means division of overall trading traffic between 2 or more stations within the same system. Jita is full, CCP isnt going to rewrite the game just yet. Go to other hubs. I hear its a big game So get out I don't care about Jita myself, I'm just interested in seeing epic battles with 3k+ people in systems. BTW, I never liked Jita and for all trading I fly to Amarr, with very rare exceptions. OpenSUSE 12.2, wine 1.5 |
Radelix Cisko
Rayn Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
107
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 15:48:00 -
[244] - Quote
Fair enough. Nothing against you, these fix the server threads are tiresome |
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
221
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 16:48:00 -
[245] - Quote
I sort of side with CCP Explorer regarding the priority of banning spam bots vs. other type of bots.
BUT, getting back to the central issue of the population limit.
What is the big deal about having Jita on TiDi (sth. like 30-70%) for most of the time? Why not?
That should allow CCP to roughly double the cap. The higher the cap, the better (even if it is necessary), artificial limits aren't very sandboxy... |
Radelix Cisko
Rayn Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
107
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 17:15:00 -
[246] - Quote
Karsa Egivand wrote:I sort of side with CCP Explorer regarding the priority of banning spam bots vs. other type of bots.
BUT, getting back to the central issue of the population limit.
What is the big deal about having Jita on TiDi (sth. like 30-70%) for most of the time? Why not?
That should allow CCP to roughly double the cap. The higher the cap, the better (even if it is necessary), artificial limits aren't very sandboxy...
Limits are, however, a reality. Considering some RL examples: The average freeway(highway, expressway, motorway) have a soft limit of ~2000 cars/hr/lane. considering the average freeway in Los Angeles (where I live) has at any given point a max capacity of about 8000 cars past any given point. Once that limit is crossed the road begins to have diminishing returns. How does this apply to a server that built for HFT. The server will have its own overhead which I am sure they offload to one of the other cores not running the solar system. You whack 3000 people into it and the server has so much to queue up that travel and activity in the SS is far more time consuming than it is worth. Freighters already warp slow and if you have been in a 10% TiDi fight you know fast warping ships still take a long time to land.
What do we get from this. a server at 10% TiDi will have the same complaints about it not being reinforced, better hardware, blah blah. IMO its better to just traffic control it and let the performance stay up allowing reasonably quick movements. |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
935
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 17:30:00 -
[247] - Quote
I live in Panama, why don-¦t they make Gates into Jita work like the Panama Canal? or Gates leading to it?
CHARGE.
CHARGE PEOPLE FOR GOING THERE during peak hours
The Higher Tonnage ships pay more, like freighters and battleships, frigates pay less, you get the idea .
ISK sink, less traffic at peak hours, people using alternate hubs.
Toll free during low pop, then it would flood, then tolls go up, less people go in , the system will sort itself eventually reaching equilibrium.
Just an idea , since I really enjoy seeing the queues in the canal from yachts and cruise ships, such beautiful patterns, love it when all the little ships begin gathering in a small group to pass all at once, or when the blaring horns of the super freighters roar for a bit.
Wonderful place the Panama Canal, marvel of engineering.
Anyway love this thread, interesting data from devs, I really miss the days devs talked more to people in here ... Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 18:09:00 -
[248] - Quote
Radelix Cisko wrote:Karsa Egivand wrote:I sort of side with CCP Explorer regarding the priority of banning spam bots vs. other type of bots.
BUT, getting back to the central issue of the population limit.
What is the big deal about having Jita on TiDi (sth. like 30-70%) for most of the time? Why not?
That should allow CCP to roughly double the cap. The higher the cap, the better (even if it is necessary), artificial limits aren't very sandboxy... Limits are, however, a reality. Considering some RL examples: The average freeway(highway, expressway, motorway) have a soft limit of ~2000 cars/hr/lane. considering the average freeway in Los Angeles (where I live) has at any given point a max capacity of about 8000 cars past any given point. Once that limit is crossed the road begins to have diminishing returns. How does this apply to a server that built for HFT. The server will have its own overhead which I am sure they offload to one of the other cores not running the solar system. You whack 3000 people into it and the server has so much to queue up that travel and activity in the SS is far more time consuming than it is worth. Freighters already warp slow and if you have been in a 10% TiDi fight you know fast warping ships still take a long time to land. What do we get from this. a server at 10% TiDi will have the same complaints about it not being reinforced, better hardware, blah blah. IMO its better to just traffic control it and let the performance stay up allowing reasonably quick movements.
I dont care much about real life comparisons tbh. Jita is still the main trade hub so to hinder traders from getting into Jita is unacceptable.
Also, lots of traders get stuck on the gates.. I've scanned freighters with 10b+ cargo sitting on the gates just waiting to be popped by a highly organized ganksquad.
This makes it even more dangerous to even get near Jita because you have NO idea if you'll get in or not.
The ability to get into Jita and do business should come first, be it at the cost of a 3 second action delay. I dont care really. Just friggin do it.
Teonosude. |
Radelix Cisko
Rayn Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
107
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 18:47:00 -
[249] - Quote
Mycool Jahksn wrote:Radelix Cisko wrote:Karsa Egivand wrote: other words my words Your words
The problem being is that CCP is already treating Jita as a special snowflake with enhanced hardware and you not caring about real life examples is a problem since our virtual world has very real limitations based in the real world. You also say "I've scanned freighters with 10b+ cargo sitting on the gates just waiting to be popped by a highly organized ganksquad." That should be reason enough to seek alternative markets. I'd rather get my shinies on sale rather than wait at a gate for a suicide squad to pop me. Another option is of course, sell in perimeter. Most traffic is headed that way |
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 22:00:00 -
[250] - Quote
Radelix Cisko wrote:Mycool Jahksn wrote:Radelix Cisko wrote:Karsa Egivand wrote: other words my words Your words The problem being is that CCP is already treating Jita as a special snowflake with enhanced hardware and you not caring about real life examples is a problem since our virtual world has very real limitations based in the real world. You also say "I've scanned freighters with 10b+ cargo sitting on the gates just waiting to be popped by a highly organized ganksquad." That should be reason enough to seek alternative markets. I'd rather get my shinies on sale rather than wait at a gate for a suicide squad to pop me. Another option is of course, sell in perimeter. Most traffic is headed that way
A sandbox game where you must adjust your actions and do things you dont want to do is no sandbox at all.
Also, try to explain "traffic jam" in SPACE to someone who likes to roleplay in EVE.
He will laugh in your face. Teonosude. |
|
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
178
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 22:08:00 -
[251] - Quote
Mycool Jahksn wrote:Matryoshka quotes
A sandbox game where you must adjust your actions and do things you dont want to do is no sandbox at all.
Also, try to explain "traffic jam" in SPACE to someone who likes to roleplay in EVE.
He will laugh in your face.[/quote]
Even a sandbox has a border on it to delineate it from its surroundings. Even a sandbox can hold so many children before it becomes too full. As I stated in this thread previously (I think it was this one, these types of threads tend to blend) the fact that Jita can take as many pilots in space as it does is a technological achievement. Most super computers couldn't handle the load that jita does. The amount of people at peak would cause most MMO shards to collapse.
|
Radelix Cisko
Rayn Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
108
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 22:12:00 -
[252] - Quote
Mycool Jahksn wrote:Radelix Cisko wrote:Mycool Jahksn wrote:Radelix Cisko wrote:Karsa Egivand wrote: other words my words Your words The problem being is that CCP is already treating Jita as a special snowflake with enhanced hardware and you not caring about real life examples is a problem since our virtual world has very real limitations based in the real world. You also say "I've scanned freighters with 10b+ cargo sitting on the gates just waiting to be popped by a highly organized ganksquad." That should be reason enough to seek alternative markets. I'd rather get my shinies on sale rather than wait at a gate for a suicide squad to pop me. Another option is of course, sell in perimeter. Most traffic is headed that way A sandbox game where you must adjust your actions and do things you dont want to do is no sandbox at all. Also, try to explain "traffic jam" in SPACE to someone who likes to roleplay in EVE. He will laugh in your face.
I don't disagree with traffic jam in space which is a silly notion. BUT we are not in actual space and we have real limitations to deal with. in response to the RP'ers perspective, a space station such as Jita 4-4 would be operated a lot like a harbor Therefore you would not be able to undock and pop out right on top of a another freighter. So yes maybe we don't traffic control the gates but the station undock, why not. I'm sure everyone will agree that waiting 20 minutes in queue to undock would be a fabulous idea. |
Danny Centauri
Silver Octopus Infernal Octopus
80
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 18:00:00 -
[253] - Quote
How about we stop going round in circles discussing hardware and load and come up with an actually innovative solution GÇô here are just a few ideas.
1) Make tax and broker fees apply on a system by system basis, with the top market hubs having the highest rates of tax. This encourages players to establish secondary market hubs, most likely in the systems adjacent to market hubs in the same region which can then be reinforced on their own nodes.
2) Create a tax to enter market hubs, and where necessary create bypasses so you can go around the system GÇô IGÇÖm not 100% sure but I think this may be a problem in Amarr some destinations you have to travel through.
3) Create actual queue system for jumping into hubs and inform players of their position in the queue to manage their expectations, this can include estimated time to enter the system and the ability to cancel and remove themselves from the queue.
4) Add shipping functionality from NPC corporations at trade hubs, this would allow goods purchased in Jita to be moved 1 jump in any direction outside of Jita at a set fee per cubic meter. This reduces the need to enter the system and therefore the jump load.
These features can tie in nicely with the EVE storyline, with the universe on the brink of war creating new war machines they need funding. The best way to do this is through taxation and where better to tax than your primary economic hot spots for the biggest gains. Also tax relief in low trade volume areas can be explained through government tax breaks to encourage growth and later fund war. All of these additional ISK sinks also help the EVE economy as weGÇÖve heard plenty about there being too many ISK faucets and not enough sinks.
EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players. |
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
222
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 18:30:00 -
[254] - Quote
Danny Centauri wrote:How about we stop going round in circles discussing hardware and load and come up with an actually innovative solution GÇô here are just a few ideas.
1) Make tax and broker fees apply on a system by system basis, with the top market hubs having the highest rates of tax. This encourages players to establish secondary market hubs, most likely in the systems adjacent to market hubs in the same region which can then be reinforced on their own nodes.
2) Create a tax to enter market hubs, and where necessary create bypasses so you can go around the system GÇô IGÇÖm not 100% sure but I think this may be a problem in Amarr some destinations you have to travel through.
3) Create actual queue system for jumping into hubs and inform players of their position in the queue to manage their expectations, this can include estimated time to enter the system and the ability to cancel and remove themselves from the queue.
4) Add shipping functionality from NPC corporations at trade hubs, this would allow goods purchased in Jita to be moved 1 jump in any direction outside of Jita at a set fee per cubic meter. This reduces the need to enter the system and therefore the jump load.
These features can tie in nicely with the EVE storyline, with the universe on the brink of war creating new war machines they need funding. The best way to do this is through taxation and where better to tax than your primary economic hot spots for the biggest gains. Also tax relief in low trade volume areas can be explained through government tax breaks to encourage growth and later fund war. All of these additional ISK sinks also help the EVE economy as weGÇÖve heard plenty about there being too many ISK faucets and not enough sinks.
I agree with the sentiment.
I heartily endorse 1).
No. 2) is problematic, but I'd be okay with it.
No. 3) I think it too difficult for not enough gain.
No. 4) I am dead set against. NO. NEVER.
But adjusting taxes UP depending on how much is traded in any given station is a very good idea. It also makes perfect sense. |
Danny Centauri
Silver Octopus Infernal Octopus
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 18:52:00 -
[255] - Quote
Karsa Egivand wrote:Danny Centauri wrote:How about we stop going round in circles discussing hardware and load and come up with an actually innovative solution GÇô here are just a few ideas.
1) Make tax and broker fees apply on a system by system basis, with the top market hubs having the highest rates of tax. This encourages players to establish secondary market hubs, most likely in the systems adjacent to market hubs in the same region which can then be reinforced on their own nodes.
2) Create a tax to enter market hubs, and where necessary create bypasses so you can go around the system GÇô IGÇÖm not 100% sure but I think this may be a problem in Amarr some destinations you have to travel through.
3) Create actual queue system for jumping into hubs and inform players of their position in the queue to manage their expectations, this can include estimated time to enter the system and the ability to cancel and remove themselves from the queue.
4) Add shipping functionality from NPC corporations at trade hubs, this would allow goods purchased in Jita to be moved 1 jump in any direction outside of Jita at a set fee per cubic meter. This reduces the need to enter the system and therefore the jump load.
These features can tie in nicely with the EVE storyline, with the universe on the brink of war creating new war machines they need funding. The best way to do this is through taxation and where better to tax than your primary economic hot spots for the biggest gains. Also tax relief in low trade volume areas can be explained through government tax breaks to encourage growth and later fund war. All of these additional ISK sinks also help the EVE economy as weGÇÖve heard plenty about there being too many ISK faucets and not enough sinks.
I agree with the sentiment. I heartily endorse 1). No. 2) is problematic, but I'd be okay with it. No. 3) I think is too difficult for not enough gain. No. 4) I am dead set against. NO. NEVER. But adjusting taxes UP depending on how much is traded in any given station is a very good idea. It also makes perfect sense. And it should encourage much more spread out trading, with proper traders having to do a bit more than just 0.01 isking in one station all the time if they want good profits.
Yeah I agree doesn't have to be all 4 just a combination of factors to create an incentive for people not to go to Jita, would make small start for a very next industry and commerce themed expansion. EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
140
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 19:05:00 -
[256] - Quote
Rammix wrote: BTW, I never liked Jita and for all trading I fly to Amarr, with very rare exceptions.
Then you are missing out on some good trading profit. While jita tends to be robust in volume and competitiveness other regions are not. These differences can be exploited for significant profits. One can buy low in Jita and sell high somewhere else. This is my chief gripe, although not a large one, with Jita being tapped out all the time. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
140
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 19:13:00 -
[257] - Quote
Danny Centauri wrote:... would make small start for a very next industry and commerce themed expansion.
I can just hear the goons and James315 screaming into their monitors as they read this. Dear god, an industry and commerce themed expansion? Why not just call it "EvE Online: Care-a-lot" |
Arthur Aihaken
Nil.
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 19:25:00 -
[258] - Quote
Eliminate local chat. Rids the entire system of spambots, and now there's no way to track players other than scanning for them or hunting them down. Thus encouraging more travel and exploration into low/null-sec. |
Susurrus Synaesthesia
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 20:58:00 -
[259] - Quote
Gankorama |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
104
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 22:02:00 -
[260] - Quote
"Jita" needs to grow beyond Jita. Open or closed, peeps need their ammo. GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ ...end transmission... |
|
Rammix
TheMurk
73
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 23:29:00 -
[261] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Rammix wrote: BTW, I never liked Jita and for all trading I fly to Amarr, with very rare exceptions.
Then you are missing out on some good trading profit. Oh, that's ok. I gladly lose some small part of profit in exchange for more comfortable movement and, often, time economy. OpenSUSE 12.2, wine 1.5 |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
553
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 00:16:00 -
[262] - Quote
Radelix Cisko wrote:
Jita is full, CCP isnt going to rewrite the game just yet. Go to other hubs. I hear its a big game
So get out
Last time I heard there was a bunch of people actually rewriting the game.
However they (and we) hope that noone will actually notice what they do, except in performance and some random dev blog.
But no matter how successful they are with software and/or hardware, the reality is that there will always be a cap limit in Jita.
If the pain of getting to Jita is high enough, the market will spread.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Rammix
TheMurk
73
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 13:07:00 -
[263] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote: If the pain of getting to Jita is high enough, the market will spread.
Exactly. It's like how water "chooses" easier ways. When some part of this "river" of traffic will be unable to fit into the Jita's "river-bed" - it will fork. Actually there is a strong start of it already (go visit Amarr).
But nevertheless, performance must be increased for all solar systems - to allow more epic fights and events. Above, I've suggested to reduce minimum piece of eve from a system to a "cluster" (not as a computer term, but kind of 'slice') of solar system. OpenSUSE 12.2, wine 1.5 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14842
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 13:25:00 -
[264] - Quote
Mycool Jahksn wrote:A sandbox game where you must adjust your actions and do things you dont want to do is no sandbox at all. Yes it is. In fact that is exactly what a multiplayer sandbox is.
Multiplayer sandbox does not mean you can do what you want. It means everyone can do what they want, which will include lots of things that you don't want them to do (to you). It also doesn't mean that you will succeed at everything you attempt, but rather means that you can attempt anything you wish to succeed at. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
554
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 13:47:00 -
[265] - Quote
Rammix wrote:
But nevertheless, performance must be increased for all solar systems - to allow more epic fights and events. Above, I've suggested to reduce minimum piece of eve from a system to a "cluster" (not as a computer term, but kind of 'slice') of solar system.
There is a group of devs, including some seriously clever ones, who have been working on this for several years now.
The problem remains that EvE was originally written as a quite nasty hack, on a shoestring budget by an indie garage developer (they're still kind of indie but have moved from Helmar's garage).
Rewriting core functionality in a 10 year old game, without breaking too much stuff that currently seems to work (even if few or any knows how or why) is not an easy task.
Doing it behind the scenes with no obvious new features to show the paying audience (and share holders) isn't making it easier ;)
I know, I've been in similar situations, and it's not just an issue of throwing more hardware at it. CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
450
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 13:50:00 -
[266] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Rammix wrote:
But nevertheless, performance must be increased for all solar systems - to allow more epic fights and events. Above, I've suggested to reduce minimum piece of eve from a system to a "cluster" (not as a computer term, but kind of 'slice') of solar system.
There is a group of devs, including some seriously clever ones, who have been working on this for several years now. The problem remains that EvE was originally written as a quite nasty hack, on a shoestring budget by an indie garage developer (they're still kind of indie but have moved from Helmar's garage). Rewriting core functionality in a 10 year old game, without breaking too much stuff that currently seems to work (even if few or any knows how or why) is not an easy task. Doing it behind the scenes with no obvious new features to show the paying audience (and share holders) isn't making it easier ;) I know, I've been in similar situations, and it's not just an issue of throwing more hardware at it.
This guy gets it. What people are saying is literally
"the only thing you need to do to make a car go faster is put a stronger engine in it".
It doesn't work like that. TMC Senior Developer http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages |
Rammix
TheMurk
73
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 01:11:00 -
[267] - Quote
Robus Muvila wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Rammix wrote:
But nevertheless, performance must be increased for all solar systems - to allow more epic fights and events. Above, I've suggested to reduce minimum piece of eve from a system to a "cluster" (not as a computer term, but kind of 'slice') of solar system.
There is a group of devs, including some seriously clever ones, who have been working on this for several years now. The problem remains that EvE was originally written as a quite nasty hack, on a shoestring budget by an indie garage developer (they're still kind of indie but have moved from Helmar's garage). Rewriting core functionality in a 10 year old game, without breaking too much stuff that currently seems to work (even if few or any knows how or why) is not an easy task. Doing it behind the scenes with no obvious new features to show the paying audience (and share holders) isn't making it easier ;) I know, I've been in similar situations, and it's not just an issue of throwing more hardware at it. This guy gets it. What people are saying is literally "the only thing you need to do to make a car go faster is put a stronger engine in it". It doesn't work like that. Seems you misunderstand me. I don't mean "stronger engine", I mean fragmentize the universe to smaller parts. No need to give more computer clusters (there are enough, eve-wiki says eve server can handle 2k people in every of 5k systems), but it could be effective to break solar systems into clusters --- "clusters" in astronomycal meaning of the word, like 'cluster of a galaxy' etc. I.e. slice a system like an apple and attach each slice to a different node. Different stations and/or gates often will be in different slices (more correct word - "cluster", I repeat, not a computer term) thus letting people into the solar system but arranging their access to inner parts of the system accordingly to the load of a particular cluster they want to warp to. For illustration: you jump into Jita, try warping to CN 4-4, but its part of the system is overloaded; so you can use another station in Jita -- instead of waiting in a line at a gate outside. Illustration for epic battles in 0.0: 1-2 thousand people fight in one part of the system, experiencing TiDi, but other parts of the same system are not highly loaded; or again one part is overloaded but a cyno gets lit near another pos or whatever in the same system and we get 2 fighting locations with 2 heavily loaded nodes, but still we have some more free nodes available in another part of the same system.
But I agree with Lors Dornick that doing this can't be very easy. OpenSUSE 12.2, wine 1.5 |
Macaya
Left Ahead Li3 Federation
25
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 02:00:00 -
[268] - Quote
if only the OP played a few years ago before traffic control...
Roll the dice and see if you get black screen of death or find yourself in a pod on the other side while your loot is being scooped off....
New method is better but the new jump portal is borked and causes more issues...
New patch is rubbish IMO & jita is the most stable I have ever seen it for years... |
Obunagawe
138
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 09:33:00 -
[269] - Quote
This issue is now self-perpetuating. More and more people are logging into Jita as soon as they can after downtime to "get a spot". Meaning that Jita becomes more congested, causing MORE people to log in after downtime. So things are only going to get much, much worse. |
|
CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1579
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 16:08:00 -
[270] - Quote
Obunagawe wrote:This issue is now self-perpetuating. More and more people are logging into Jita as soon as they can after downtime to "get a spot". Meaning that Jita becomes more congested, causing MORE people to log in after downtime. So things are only going to get much, much worse. Or other market hubs start to gain, Amarr has been growing significantly since Dec 2012. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
|
|
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
1235
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 00:34:00 -
[271] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Or other market hubs start to gain, Amarr has been growing significantly since Dec 2012.
They'd grow faster if you'd implement a congestion fee of some sort on Jita. Either slightly higher broker/sales taxes or a stargate entry fee (based on ship size). |
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
223
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 04:47:00 -
[272] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Obunagawe wrote:This issue is now self-perpetuating. More and more people are logging into Jita as soon as they can after downtime to "get a spot". Meaning that Jita becomes more congested, causing MORE people to log in after downtime. So things are only going to get much, much worse. Or other market hubs start to gain, Amarr has been growing significantly since Dec 2012.
Amarr trade activity increasing doesn't mean Jita is losing. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: [one page] |