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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
GooieGoober
Miranda Regional Technologies
1
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Posted - 2013.06.11 21:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi, all.
I'm looking into gettting a new PC with 16-32gb memory. I was wondering if anyone has been using a ramdisk to run EVE when mulitboxing? I would like to run 1-4 accounts simultaneously (maybe even 6 in the future w/ 3 screens) on the machine, and was wondering if a ramdisk would provide better performance than just system memory. I read a few postings off google, but they were from 2009. With the new expansions and hardware out there, I am wondering if its worth the investment for that much memory. for $250 USD, I can get about 32gb DDR3.
I suppose an SSD would work to, but I think that the ramdisk would be even faster and not as prone to degradation. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
8576
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Posted - 2013.06.11 21:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Your gfx card is more of a bottleneck than HDD. Lots of RAM and the use of junctions (or same client load) makes windows cache files in RAM already, works perfect for me.
gfx card however, is hot as hell.
/c
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Obunagawe
134
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Posted - 2013.06.11 21:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
I run 10 clients on 5 year old PC with 4GB of RAM and get playable FPS. You don't need any of that ****. |
GooieGoober
Miranda Regional Technologies
1
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Posted - 2013.06.11 21:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Your gfx card is more of a bottleneck than HDD. Lots of RAM and the use of junctions (or same client load) makes windows cache files in RAM already, works perfect for me.
gfx card however, is hot as hell.
/c
Chribba, Thanks for the input. Lots of ram...and no ramdisk.
I'd like to get a GTX 770 as a primary video card with my 560Ti as SLI support to run the 3 screens, but I don't think I can swing it financially just yet.
My existing PC is an OC core 2 duo 5 yr old pc (at 4ghz) with 4gb ram on it, and with 3 clients running, it tends to get slow. all the clients would freeze when the screen saver changes pictures. |
Tiber Ibis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2013.06.11 22:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Have to agree with Chribba here. Ram really isn't an issue if your running 4GB or more. Even 2GB and you might be alright. CPU is never an issue either. The graphics card on the other hand, the more power you have the better. Multi clienting is very graphics intensive particularly with high settings. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
813
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Posted - 2013.06.11 22:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tiber Ibis wrote:The graphics card on the other hand, the more power you have the better
This, very often people tend to plug GC's in their PC when the PSU is clearly not correctly dimensioned, 750W is where serious business starts, under this and if someone wants to plug good GC's they will have trouble for sure and most of those they will never figure out it's from PSU and think it's the GC since their graphics are going make them funny things on screen and favorite games/programs. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Barakkus
1919
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Posted - 2013.06.12 00:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Use an SSD instead of ramdisk. Same thing almost, and I stress almost. You still have to deal with the bus speed of your drive controller etc, but still it's effectively the same thing. The longevity of a SSD is much higher than people think, especially with the ones out now.
Aside from needing a better graphics card this is what I just built in January: 1. Corsair Carbide Series 400R Mid Tower ATX Gaming Computer Case 2. Intel Core i7 3820 3.6GHz LGA 2011 Boxed Processor 3. Intel DX79SI Extreme LGA 2011 X79 ATX Intel Motherboard 4. Zalman CNPS9900MAX-B 135MM Fan CPU Cooler - Blue LED 5. Corsair Enthusiast Series TX850M 850 Watt Power Supply 6. Corsair Vengeance 8GB DDR3-2133 PC3-17000) CL11 7. Diamond AMD Radeon HD 7850 2048MB GDDR5 PCIe 3.0 x16 Video Card 8. Intel 330 Series 2.5" 180GB SATA 6Gb/s SSD 9. Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7,200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" 10. Seagate Barracuda EP 3TB 7,200RPM SATA 6.0Gbps 3.5 11. LG 24x SATA Internal Desktop DVD Burner GH24NS72 12. Creative Labs Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty Professional 13. 3x Dell U3212HM monitors 23" 16:9 monitors.
Should be more than enough for what you want to do, might toss a little extra ram on it, but not really necessary. http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1174
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Posted - 2013.06.12 02:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ram disk are only useful when data access times are concerned. As everyone else here is saying, GPU is the key to better performance. Now, if you're running a single drive system with multiple clients plus background programs all accessing the same drive you might experience a performance hit. These would be, generally, brief lag spikes of system performance, i.e. brief client freezes.
You can offset this by enabling resource caching which loads move game data in memory in exchange for less disk access.
If you have a dual drive system you might consider moving your page file to the second drive or move the clients to that drive. Or a ramdisk might be helpful in this situation. But, I have to question why you would need 16gb-32gb if you're not versed in the usage of ram as it pertains to system performance? My guess is you don't need anywhere near that much RAM and could spend that money on other things like a better GPU. HTFU!...for the children! |
Aprudena Gist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
37
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Posted - 2013.06.12 02:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
ram disk would be silly just get a boot ssd for the windows install and the game ~64 -128 gig and then 1-3 tb hard drive for the rest |
Littlest Kiwi
Cryogenic Vacations
1
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Posted - 2013.06.12 03:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Weird how no one has pointed out that you'd have to copy the client to the ram disk after every reboot........ With it being 10-15gb or so that would def take a bit of time, even from an SSD to ram.
Your much much better of with a couple of SSD's. Theres not really any need for 32gb of ram yet, unless you make use of it in some other application (ie Virtual machine, auto cad blah blah).
If your multi boxing a lot of client multiple graphics cards would be your best option, making sure they aren't SLI'd/Crossfired. So go with the best graphics card/s you can afford, with a decent quad core at least. |
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Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
109
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Posted - 2013.06.12 03:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
A typical EVE client for me will use around 1GB of physical memory when running. So yea, its useful for more RAM. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3690
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Posted - 2013.06.12 03:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
I run EVE from a USB2 disk. Disk I/O is not an issue with EVE, except for loading resources that you haven't seen before such as logging in to land on grid with 2000 ships all of different models.
The biggest boost tou can buy for your computer to improve the performance of this graphics intensive game is to get a fast video card with lots of memory.
As for that PC build earlier, I wonder if switching from CL11 to CL9 will shave another 3% or so off the loading of textures? I get improved performance from virtual machines in VMWare. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
sloany
Assisted Genocide Unprovoked Aggression
7
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Posted - 2013.06.12 06:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
The bottleneck for eve is the CPU above anything else, having no multi-core support. You can try setting your clients to use a core each and see if that helps, otherwise I'd look at upgrading your CPU first. Having a 5 year old CPU you'll probably need to do a full upgrade.
I'm going through the same thing, my 6 year old quad core Q6600 has stood the test of time with games that support multi-core, it's just a shame eve doesn't. |
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
220
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Posted - 2013.06.12 06:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
I find the bottleneck is the memory of your graphics card. Make sure you got one with lots of on board memory. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1991
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Posted - 2013.06.12 07:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Obunagawe wrote:I run 10 clients on 5 year old PC with 4GB of RAM and get playable FPS. You don't need any of that ****. at what? 50x60 resolution and minimum gfx settings?
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ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
176
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Posted - 2013.06.12 07:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
All good advice given here. I have also run the client off usb and class 10 SD cards. the key for multi client is lowering the graphics settings of your extra clients. a better graphics card memory as noted above doesn't hurt. ISD Gallifreyan Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Tiber Ibis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2013.06.12 11:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
ISD Gallifreyan wrote:All good advice given here. I have also run the client off usb and class 10 SD cards. the key for multi client is lowering the graphics settings of your extra clients. a better graphics card memory as noted above doesn't hurt. Yes that is what I do also. Would be nice if we could have customised graphic profiles built into eve actually which we can easily switch between as the current 3 options are a bit limiting.
Also, Eve barely tests my CPU when looking at performance monitor. I'm not sure if that is because I have a very powerful CPU or simply Eve isn't cpu intensive. |
GooieGoober
Miranda Regional Technologies
1
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Posted - 2013.06.13 00:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Initially, I was running a GTX 8800 when I built the machine...and that was the bottleneck when playing. A couple of years ago, I switched it out for the 560Ti and now I'm seeing CPU utilization at 90-98% and memory at 3.8 out of 4gb used. I purposly don't have other apps running on this machine to maximize gaming. No virus scanner...I even shut off Steam. I don't surf the web on my game box to keep from getting infected/hacked. I have another computer to do everything else on (web, data storage, email, etc). By dropping the Ramdisk option, there is no need for 32gb ram. I think 16 would be more than enough to hold me over for a few more years.
Liquid cooling helped keep this machine living longer, but I think it may be time to retire the beast. |
Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards
346
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Posted - 2013.06.13 00:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aren't ramdisks unreliable/error prone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
437
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Posted - 2013.06.13 01:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
ISD Gallifreyan wrote:All good advice given here. I have also run the client off usb and class 10 SD cards. the key for multi client is lowering the graphics settings of your extra clients. a better graphics card memory as noted above doesn't hurt.
"Locking for abuse and.... wait.. this is a positive thread... what? WHAT?" TMC Senior Developer http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages |
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Tiber Ibis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2013.06.13 02:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
GooieGoober wrote:Initially, I was running a GTX 8800 when I built the machine...and that was the bottleneck when playing. A couple of years ago, I switched it out for the 560Ti and now I'm seeing CPU utilization at 90-98% and memory at 3.8 out of 4gb used. I purposly don't have other apps running on this machine to maximize gaming. No virus scanner...I even shut off Steam. I don't surf the web on my game box to keep from getting infected/hacked. I have another computer to do everything else on (web, data storage, email, etc). By dropping the Ramdisk option, there is no need for 32gb ram. I think 16 would be more than enough to hold me over for a few more years.
Liquid cooling helped keep this machine living longer, but I think it may be time to retire the beast. That is strange. I rarely ever see CPU utilisation go above 50%. Also the memory always allocates the maximum amount possible, although eve doesn't actually need the full amount, but if you have it spare then it will take it. So using all of the 4GB of memory is normal. |
Troezar
V I R I I Ineluctable.
3
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Posted - 2013.06.13 05:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
I can't recommend an SSD enough, obviously a decent GPU is required but the SSD will make everything much slicker.
Not mentioned yet is resolution which has a great bearing on GPU performance. I run at 2560x1440 and find multiple clients fine maxed out, that is with a 7970 though.
I've put an SSD into a 6 year old laptop and that was transformed, worth a look for any laptop users reading this. |
Ager Agemo
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
328
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Posted - 2013.06.13 05:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
EVE is only really intensive on GPU up to a point, once your GPU can give you 60fps at fullgraphics, the next bottleneck its the CPU and will keep being the CPU for everything, this is SPECIALLY noticeable on large fleets where you will notice your GPU running at relatively low temps, your CPU crunching a single core at 100% use, and getting only 4FPS.
the titan in luminaire allowed me to test it with some decent hardware, GTX 680 ivy bridge at 4ghz and ram at 2000mhz, yet my screenshots at 1080p and fraps both clearly show the CPU Was to blame for the low client performance, of course the server performance is totally Irrelevant and even if I had been able to get 120fps... tidy was locked at 90% so who cares it was like the matrix. |
GooieGoober
Miranda Regional Technologies
1
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tiber Ibis wrote:That is strange. I rarely ever see CPU utilisation go above 50%. Also the memory always allocates the maximum amount possible, although eve doesn't actually need the full amount, but if you have it spare then it will take it. So using all of the 4GB of memory is normal.
I'm running a E8600 OC'd to 4 ghz. The old chip instructions may be maxing out with the new releases of the game? |
Zir Blazer
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.06.16 08:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
From 48 hours ago, I'm the proud owner of 32 GB of RAM. Putting Eve Online into the RAMDisk was one of the first things I tried to do. My take:
Copying the 12 GB/1133 files EVE installation folder (Program Files\CCP\EVE) to the RAMDisk is NOT enough to make it work properly, and this should also apply if I wanted to move the Eve install folder to anywhere else inside my Hard Disk. If you execute EVE\launcher\launcher.exe, it seems to be bugged somehow, because it wants to re-patch itself to the same version (Didn't let it finish to see what happens):
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8507/9ddz.png
You can open the client directly using EVE\bin\ExeFile.exe. However, after entering my character, it opens up as if it was a fresh install with NO settings. This means that you will have to place and resizing windows and tabs all over again - not happening. Also, if I use the launcher, cancel it while creating the patch and later execute the client, it complains that my installation is corrupted or modified because checksum doesn't match.
Besides the installation folder, Eve Online also has files scattered through two other places: Documents and Settings\[My user]\Local Settings\Application Data\CCP\EVE. Its just 342 MB, but with 20599 files, and it seems to include Characters poirtraits and the like, mostly client cache. As some people should know, performance with TONS of small files is MUCH lower that if it was a single, or a few, very big files, so those DO are an annoyance. There are also files on My Documents\EVE, with just 90 MB but nearly 2000 files, that seems to be comprised of chat logs. I didn't checked Windows Registry to check what Eve has there. Will check to see if modifying the install route I can get it working, as I copied just the install folder, the other two are still where they were before. To be honest, I would prefer that Eve Online was encapsulated to make it easily portable, or at least that the cache folders were easily user-seteable.
After my first year playing Eve, I had some horrible client start up issues right after login, it took two or three minutes to load the Character screen with constant HD activity - and by no means my HD is slow, is a Samsung SpinPoint F3 3 years old that was top notch in HD performance. Googling I found on forums than I should clear the Cache - indeed, that did it, as at that time, My Documents\EVE had 80000 files of chat logs and the other things it saves by default for one entire year. So Eve load times CAN be VERY heavy on I/O if you let that Cache grow like mine did, as it seems to check all of it at login. Ideally, I suppose that Eve could use the RAMDisk for both static client files if you can give yourself the luxury of having enough capacity to fit those 12 GB in it for near-instant load times, as it wouldn't have to read those files from the HD everytime it needs to load more game data, and also cache, that is most specifically, all those sort of small, I/O consuming files. Maybe it could throw them all at once along with logs to the HD after closing the client, but I could also do it myself manually if I want to save something. Either way, that is mostly discardeable data.
Placing Eve on a RAMDisk is a good chunck of the job that it should requiere to make it portable. The important thing here are settings, but cache would help too. Recent searched terms and the like are very helpful. |
Khemax
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
77
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Posted - 2013.06.16 09:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ok ill add a little bit of agreement of previous posts.
Get an SSD not a RAM disk....the differences are minor but there are advantages to an SSD
Yes you can happily run numerous clients on an SSD and they run very well but the only real difference oyu will see is loading. The majority of the work is done on your graphics card (good choice btw), and your RAM which I would suggest a minimum of 8GB for smooth switching between clients.
Anyway I hope this helps you out
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
830
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Posted - 2013.06.16 13:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Khemax wrote:Ok ill add a little bit of agreement of previous posts. Get an SSD not a RAM disk....the differences are minor but there are advantages to an SSD Yes you can happily run numerous clients on an SSD and they run very well but the only real difference oyu will see is loading. The majority of the work is done on your graphics card (good choice btw), and your RAM which I would suggest a minimum of 8GB for smooth switching between clients. Anyway I hope this helps you out
Running 12GB here with 0 ramdisk (W8) 2 clients working without an issue *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
GooieGoober
Miranda Regional Technologies
1
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Posted - 2013.06.26 23:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Thanks everyone for the input. Now to scrape up the cash. |
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
9
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Posted - 2013.06.27 02:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
As some1 who multiboxes like crazy in other than mining situations...
Biggest Upgrades were SSD w/o pagefile & vastly more ram. I have an i7 cpu that never see's past 25% on multiple clients. Ram on the other hand gets used up quickly. 5 clients can turn up ram usage into the 12gb range easily. As far as graphics, turn them down or upgrade. pretty simple. |
Aurette
Between Realities
1
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Posted - 2013.06.27 02:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Use an SSD instead of ramdisk. Same thing almost, and I stress almost. You still have to deal with the bus speed of your drive controller etc, but still it's effectively the same thing. The longevity of a SSD is much higher than people think, especially with the ones out now.
Aside from needing a better graphics card this is what I just built in January: ... 2. Intel Core i7 3820 3.6GHz LGA 2011 Boxed Processor 3. Intel DX79SI Extreme LGA 2011 X79 ATX Intel Motherboard 4. Zalman CNPS9900MAX-B 135MM Fan CPU Cooler - Blue LED .....
Agree, I went the same i7 3820 CPU on a Intel DX79TO for my last build a few months back, did grab 32GB ram as future proofing.
When I saw the specs on modern SSD I didn't bother with a rotating drive and went two SSD, not huge but I only install a game or 2 on my main gaming rig and have email etc on my older ex main rig.
Yes my bottle neck is my GPU which is an GF GTX670OC.
Two clients run just fine on highest settings. Would be nice if the EVE load screen could save/load account based profiles so that I can load my main, and various alts with appropriate settings rather than manually lowering for clients above the first.
Have not tried going beyond 3 on a machine yet, and that was on my old kit, yet to push the new one. |
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