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Abon
STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
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Posted - 2013.06.13 14:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Although I am no physics major or anything, I am pretty sure there would be no g-force in a spaceships. Without an atmosphere or gravity holding us to a nearby object there is no g-force.
"G-force (with g from gravitational) is a measurement of acceleration felt as weight."
If your on a ship generating false gravity for practical purposes you wouldn't feel anything either because your weight is determined relative only to the ships interior environment so anything going on outside is irrelevant.
So, in short, no Gs. Sorry to spoil the fun.
(Also, there is a lot of terrible terrible physics in this thread).
Edit: Not sure that was clear enough. We only experience G-Force on earth because gravity dictates that our weight holds us to a certain spot. Moving fast enough creates the phenomenon where your body is being pulled from that spot forcefully. Without the gravity there and a relative surface to be pulled away from, you don't have a problem. This might still be a problem for no artificial gravity ships accelerating fast away from high mass planets whilst in very very low orbit.
Uh no Newtons gravitational laws apply to the whole universe not just to planet earth, such as gravitation is present in the whole universe. "An object in motion stays in motion until acted upon by an outside force." Means if you emergency stop your Rifter in deep space you will get squeezed between the bulkheads by the inertial forces just like you would be on earth. Thank the dear lord for those inertial dampeners. Gforces have nothing to do with atmosphere or otherwise.
It is one of the great problems of spaceflight, accelerate too fast and your pilot becomes goo. Accelerate in the right manner and it will take weeks and months to reach speeds necessary for actual space travel.
Addendum: tl,dr If your ship travels with high speed with you inside and suddenly stops, you will keep going. The outside force stopping you would be the nearest bulkhead. |
Abon
STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
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Posted - 2013.06.13 14:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Xavier Zedicus wrote:Chribba wrote:Arduemont, from texts I read while doing all this, it said you will still be affected by "force" whilst in a spaceship.
So if you are stationary floating free in the ship, and it accelerates you will find yourself moving towards the back of the ship (away from the direction it is going) you will then be pressed against the wall feeling "force" while not really force created by gravity you will still feel this - and thus I call it gF.
Could have totally read it wrong though.
/c This seems to be missing the point that 1) in warp your ship isn't actually moving 2) out of warp, noting prevents artificial gravity from being applied horizontally to counteract this effect. It doesnt even need to be applied constantly, just while accelerating ir decelerating, to pull you wikl the ship. Once up to speed regular physics keeps you stationary relative to the ships internals.
That is all true the question is do we talk about the theoretical warp drive that actually bends space and pulls our target destination towards us turning light years into mere meters aka "jumping". Or do we talk about the one that forms a bubble of space around you with a new set of physical laws in it allowing you to ignore E=mc2 and reaching FTL speeds. Both suggested models would also protect you from time actually speeding up while travelling at high speeds.
At the moment it seems we won`t need both of them anyways in the future as new theories suggests we might be able to simple "phase out" of our dimension and re-enter it at whatever location we wish in a mere microsecond. Theories also suggest that this would be the natural way for a highly advanced civilization to travel space as it is instant and also removes the dangers of deep space travel. We know of 11 other existing dimensions so far including our own. Not to mention that the universe splits itself constantly into all possible future outcomes which are unlimited but that is something that causes even the most brilliant scientists massive amounts of hurt in their brains.
Now my personal guess is such things will start to develop once we fully understand gravity (something we really don`t understand even today, is it some form of particle? an electromagnetic force? nobody really knows..). The very moment we are able to manipulate gravity is the same moment we will be able to manipulate space and time since those three are absolutely interwoven with each other. |
Abon
STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
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Posted - 2013.06.13 15:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xavier Zedicus wrote:Abon wrote:That is all true the question is do we talk about the theoretical warp drive that actually bends space and pulls our target destination towards us turning light years into mere meters aka "jumping". Or do we talk about the one that forms a bubble of space around you with a new set of physical laws in it allowing you to ignore E=mc2 and reaching FTL speeds. Both suggested models would also protect you from time actually speeding up while travelling at high speeds. At the moment it seems we won`t need both of them anyways in the future as new theories (especially String Theory) suggests we might be able to simple "phase out" of our dimension and re-enter it at whatever location we wish in a mere microsecond. Theories also suggest that this would be the natural way for a highly advanced civilization to travel space as it is instant and also removes the dangers of deep space travel. Simply travel to orbit, push button, phase out - phase in, be in the orbit of another planet millions of lightyears away. Or another dimension all together, your call! According to String Theory everything vibrates along tiny tiny strings which causes matter to form and all the other weird things. Simply attune yourself to another frequency and bingo! We know of 11 other existing dimensions so far including our own. Not to mention that the universe splits itself constantly into all possible future outcomes which are unlimited but that is something that causes even the most brilliant scientists massive amounts of hurt in their brains. Now my personal guess is such things will start to develop once we fully understand gravity (something we really don`t understand even today, is it some form of particle? an electromagnetic force? nobody really knows..). The very moment we are able to manipulate gravity is the same moment we will be able to manipulate space and time since those three are absolutely interwoven with each other. Here's the lore. It's the bubble one, as I explained. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Warp_drives
Very nice, thank you.
So we now can assume that as soon as you hit the warp button in EVE a bubble gets established around your ship creating a tiny sub space with a new set of physical laws simply excluding Newtons Laws and therefore inertia. I wonder what else you could do...
Your pods are safe guys. |
Abon
STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
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Posted - 2013.06.13 15:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xonus Calimar wrote:Does this mean every time you bump someone, you kill dozens of their (and your own) crew members?
Depends on the mass of the ship and the speed of the bump. But i think we can be pretty certain that sickbay will have to deal with a lot of broken bones and smashed heads in an possible scenario. |
Abon
STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
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Posted - 2013.06.13 15:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
This is all you nerds need to calculate all the bumping.
Those laws apply when the ship is not enclosed in a warp bubble and in normal space time.
First law: An object at rest remains at rest unless acted upon by a force. An object in motion remains in motion, and at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a force.
Second law: The acceleration of a body is directly proportional to, and in the same direction as, the net force acting on the body, and inversely proportional to its mass. Thus, F = ma, where F is the net force acting on the object, m is the mass of the object and a is the acceleration of the object.
Third law: When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction to that of the first body.
Sir Isaac Newton is indeed the most deadly ************ in the universe. |
Abon
STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
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Posted - 2013.06.13 16:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Knights Armament wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGZoMPXG0MI those are the astronauts of the future, maybe we'll be able to put our brains inside of one. My idea is clear and simple, we'll use 3d printers to make satellites in space, sprinkle these satellites around then download our consciousness onto very small androids. The internet is the key to space travel, we'll be able to bounce signals off our networks in space at light speed, and back, faster than sending some rocket. Once we've networked space, we can utilize 3d printing technology to build entire colonies on mars, and the moon. Humans can't survive in space due to the high amounts of radiation, and the effects of no or reduced gravity on our skeleton. So we have to upgrade. http://wiiudaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/deus-ex_-human-revolution-wallpapers.jpg
Cool idea i like it but as i stated above you simply circumvent all that by dimensional shifting or a warp drive. Not to mention that you stay "intact" when travelling like that.
Recent studies in neurology turned out some interesting facts. It seems our brains are not just amazing and mysterious organs but are also in some way linked to our reality on a quantum level. This is very interesting as neurology and physics reach a point where they cross paths. Don`t forget!! THIS IS IMPORTANT! When experiments are commited in the fields of quantum mechanics the outcome is depending on the presence of an observer!!! Therefore the universe is aware of your and our presence at all times and you influence it the whole time without actually noticing it. This is a huge mystery even today.
There have some experiments showing that even before somebody decides to move or do something there is measurable but unexplainable activity in your brain before the decision happens sometimes lasting up as long as seconds. Some scientists described it as "like a phone call on an old analog line overseas". Further studies seem to show that while you think your conciousness in "in your body" it seems to be actually not. Rather more you are "linked in" your body from a quantum level by some kind of invisible universal tether and what can be measured in the brain roughly translates to "lag".
If this turns out to be true someday i highly doubt we will ever be able to transfer our whole conciousness to a device or another body because this "disconnect" already occurs on a daily basis and we tend to call it "death". This is some highly metaphysical stuff of course..maybe we will never know for certain. I personally think we simply relog to a new existence after death as our old "machine" aka body gets broken and there is no big fuzz about it like religions try to nail into our heads. |
Abon
STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
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Posted - 2013.06.13 16:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
double toast..damn forums |
Abon
STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 16:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Abon wrote:This is all you nerds need to calculate all the bumping. Those laws apply when the ship is not enclosed in a warp bubble and in normal space time. But if you look at the way ships and objects collide, everything is always enclosed in a bubble.
Haha very true!
I think CCP should hire a theoretical physicist and let him work out all the necessary physical laws for the EVE universe.
Addendum: Wasn`t this once explained by the shields bumping/repelling each other and not the actual object hull. If so do the shields take away some of the kinetic energy of the bump and if yes by what percentage?! CCP we need that math guy.... |
Abon
STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
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Posted - 2013.06.13 17:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Iris Bravemount wrote:A Loki linked, 10MN MWD fitted, snake implanted overheating Claw can reach a speed of 19,575 m/s within 14.2s.
How does that compute?
For those of you who think that the MWD would negate some of the accelation because of the warping, that same ship with an AB fitted instead can reach 9,150m/s within 14.2s.
Indeed MWDs and ABs are something very specific. I did not think about them before...seems like we have a problem here. Or the pilots flying fast ships are really flat. |
Abon
STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
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Posted - 2013.06.13 23:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nice thread, thanks to all participants! o7 |
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Abon
STAHLSTURM Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 00:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Arduemont wrote:Although I am no physics major or anything, I am pretty sure there would be no g-force in a spaceships. Without an atmosphere or gravity holding us to a nearby object there is no g-force.
"G-force (with g from gravitational) is a measurement of acceleration felt as weight."
If your on a ship generating false gravity for practical purposes you wouldn't feel anything either because your weight is determined relative only to the ships interior environment so anything going on outside is irrelevant.
So, in short, no Gs. Sorry to spoil the fun.
(Also, there is a lot of terrible terrible physics in this thread).
Edit: Not sure that was clear enough. We only experience G-Force on earth because gravity dictates that our weight holds us to a certain spot. Moving fast enough creates the phenomenon where your body is being pulled from that spot forcefully. Without the gravity there and a relative surface to be pulled away from, you don't have a problem. This might still be a problem for no artificial gravity ships accelerating fast away from high mass planets whilst in very very low orbit. I got a little bit of ridicule for this post. The G-Force people are talking about in this thread is technically "Specific Force", not g-force. G-force is the force acting on the body as a result of the acceleration caused by GRAVITY. Yea, those are traditionalist definitions, and it's basically just nit picking. I know it's only semantics, but my post wasn't incorrect, I just misconstrued exactly what everyone was getting at. My bad.
This is basically correct, gravitation is counted as an inertia dampening force, it is only rather weak. (Gravitation is actually a very weak force in comparison to the other known natural forces like electromagnetism.) Point is G Force occurs due to mass and acceleration and your mass is always the same no matter if it is on earth or in space. So you will be just as flat up there as you will be down on earth if you hit the wall.
That was by the way why there was such a huge fuzz about the Higgs Boson since it is assumed that it defines the mass of an atom. If you could manipulate it you could theoretically lower or rise the mass of an object. This goes as far as to lowering an objects mass to 0 which would allow for a multitude of applications.
One of those would be lowering a starships mass to Zero which would allow for FTL speeds. No mass = no problems with E=mc2, also the energy levels required for propulsion would be close to nothing.
Sadly no real news showed up after its supposed discovery, i guess people are just too uninterested in those things or all the interesting data already vanished in some military lab for further studies. |
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