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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
8583
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
After a bit of research and math calculations I've come to the conclusion that Capsules are among the most dangerous ships in-game (when/if you put some reality on it).
tl;dr Capsules are evil and we all should feel pretty hammered when going into warp.
This whole thing started out by a chat on IRC, where the statement was made (Akiraa) about an Itty5 turning to align and the g-force (gF) the pilot and crew would experience, and it turned out to be quite high.
This got me curious a bit, and I'm by far no math genius or anything (more to the dumb side tbh lol) - but I do have Rocket Science IV so that should definitely make up for it and make this like 100% valid and such
I started out following Akiraa's path and began looking at the forces of ships turning, I realized that this might not be the way to go as when align for warp you will not always do like 180 degree turns making the centrifugal force be constant.
So instead I decided to look into the pure acceleration in a straight line into warp and what gF the pilot and crew experience. Now for those of you that just went tl;dr and comment about how the pod goo protects you and such while that do minimize the effects on the force it doesn't take it away, plus when it comes to us sitting in the ships we can see in the videos that we are clearly not in our pod at the time soooo... (also take note that for best protection we'd also need to breath liquid to prevent internal damage).
On to the findings! - made up a little chart (column titles clickable for sorting) - http://eve-files.com/chribba/gf.html
I've tried to calculate the gF from a ship being still accelerating to the point it hits warp (align time in this case (seconds)), plain ship, as well as with skills applied and modules. The modules used to make it easier is just Inertia ones, and to make my calculations easier I made all modules do a bonus of 17% (up to 6 modules (rigs included) at the most).
We can from the chart see that an unskilled, unfitted titan pilot (and it's crew - NEVER FORGET THE CREW lol) will not have a hard time while getting into warp, takes nearly 2 minutes and only be affected by 0.04gF, think we will survive that one pretty good. Even so with full skills and modules we sure will warp quicker but the effects are marginal still with around 0.2gF. Freighters still keeping it a very smooth (and slow) ride.
The gF will ramp up a bit as we sit into smaller, more agile ships, we would probably start to feel a bit sitting in a battleship but probably not that bad at all.
As we jump into the cruisers we would start feeling 3-8gF hitting warp, tough for both pilots and crews (except if you fly Amarr though as I doubt they'd really care about the slaves in their cargo).
Get into the frigates and there's some serious forces at work, the smoother rides give you forces around 10gF probably making most pass out without support and upwards to 25gF (not sure how many of us are still awake at that moment).
Grabbing a shuttle and you will experience close to 32gF - and think of so many flying around in those on a daily basis, we should be feeling pretty bad after every jump.
But then if you happened to lose that ship climbing into your pod and trying to warp away from your aggressors - you will experience close to 240gF as you make your getaway! (That goo better be good and filling your lungs if you are supposed to survive this - if you actually read this far post a comment about how much my math sucks for the giggles). So a Capsule is by far the most lethal ship for us to fly, thankfully it all seems to be kept together - magic?
There's some special ships there, that out-forces the Capsule, all dev ships though - so devs should be long gone too if it wasn't for the space magic (and fiction ofc) - the poor EVE TV pilots sustain over 4000gF with their special camera ships.
So all in all there's some forces out there we play with - and the crew that you never thought about rescue when your ship goes boom (prolly bc they died when you pushed 30gF warping from that last gate anyway). I never thought Rocket Science IV would come in handy... and it probably didn't either because the science freaks will rip this apart and point out all the errors I made (but hey +1 post lol).
Formulas: Align time: -LN(0,25) * MASS * Inertia / 1000000 gF: ((0,75 * Speed) / AlignTime) / 9,807 Align with skills: Bonus from Navigation, Spaceship Command, Advanced SC, Capital Ships (where it applies) and getting Speed with skills: Same as above With modules: Same as above + stacking of up to 6x17% inertia modules (depending on slot layout of ship)
Bonus points for those who want to dig into mixing overdrives/inertia and nomad/snake sets for optimal combo of gF ratio Bonus points for being drunk and replacing gF with 'girlfriend' and read it all over (let me know how it turns out).
/c
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Darth Skorpius
Legion of Darkwind Order of the Void
154
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm pretty sure our ships have Initerial Stabilizers to help help minimize ge-forces, pods especially so. Follow my Adventures in New Eden! http://www.skorpiuschronicles.com/
Wellington NZ Player Gathering https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2810012 |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1166
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
I know you have taken a light-hearted approach to this, but it's such an interesting read and made me laugh quite a bit !
Pretty good theory stuff, maths is not way out, you're pretty smack on the ball there.
I claim that all of the ships, pods included, are automagically equipped with inertia dampeners
I mean come on, it can't just be Star Trek ships using those essential modules
Nice write-up, thanks Chribba!!
o7 Personnel Division Director --áBene Gesserit Chapterhouse "The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another." - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Riot Girl
Thundercats The Initiative.
1059
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
They're also designed to kill you, so... yep. Oh god. |
Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions Free 2 Play
138
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:"Several Indy car drivers have withstood impacts in excess of 100 G without serious injuries." Dennis F. Shanahan, M.D., M.P.H.: "Human Tolerance and Crash Survivability, citing Society of Automotive Engineers. Indy racecar crash analysis.
the acceleration of a capsule is a pretty short burst of g's as well, also i'm sure that the technology in eve offers some solutions that help.. 3rdPartyEve.net - your catalogue for 3rd party applications |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
5499
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
240 girlfriendz... One must really love his Exotic Dancers if he can shove so many into his pod(which would be supeer smeggin' tight btw ) |
Kris Xavier
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
8
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
To reduce discomfort and increase the safety of ALL pod pilots it is recommended that every one now fly supers. This is what i have learned from your exercise.
Thank you for bringing some sense to eve online Chribba. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
92
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
You should read Simmons' Endymion trilogy. He has a nice approach on hyper-acceleration/deceleration ;). |
Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
98
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
You should always try and get people out of their pods so they don't injure themselves by pullin' a few G's.
Also, posting in a Chribba thread. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
8591
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kris Xavier wrote:To reduce discomfort and increase the safety of ALL pod pilots it is recommended that every one now fly supers. This is what i have learned from your exercise.
Thank you for bringing some sense to eve online Chribba. haha exactly my point! lmao And beneficial for securing trades too... I like this!
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Dilligafmofo
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
197
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Remember folks, clunk, click, every trip.
Seat belts save lives !! |
Hesod Adee
Turalyon Plus
21
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Darth Skorpius wrote:I'm pretty sure our ships have Initerial Stabilizers to help help minimize ge-forces, pods especially so. Stations have artificial gravity. The only difference between that and inertial dampeners would be the strength, direction and duration of the artificial gravity step.
AG generates a constant 1g of gravity in a fixed direction. Inertial dampeners need to produce similar g forces to the engine to counter acceleration. The closer the match, the less that needs to be dealt with by other means to bring it down to survivable levels.
Now, countering the g forces of rotation is trickier, as neither the direction or strength of the g forces is constant across the ship. |
mr ed thehouseofed
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
326
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Capsules are evil and we all should feel pretty hammered when going into warp.
i'm always hammered when i fly mine probably the reason i'm in them so much
real gamers only need one toon-á |
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CCP Falcon
3049
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Inertial Dampers, mate.
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á Live Events Organizer
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3709
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
We get into warp by changing the nature of the space around the ship. G-forces no longer apply since we've actually changed the rules of physics in that little bubble of space-time.
The people to be concerned about are those who happen to be near the edge of the bubble due to the tidal shearing of space-time that occurs at the interface between normal space and warped space. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4184
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Posted - 2013.06.13 10:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
A lot depends on how long those forces are applied. Even the cheapest mechanical hard disks are certified to withstand very short 60g shocks. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4184
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Posted - 2013.06.13 10:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:We get into warp by changing the nature of the space around the ship. G-forces no longer apply since we've actually changed the rules of physics in that little bubble of space-time.
The people to be concerned about are those who happen to be near the edge of the bubble due to the tidal shearing of space-time that occurs at the interface between normal space and warped space.
Ships accelerate to pre-warp speed with those accelerations and only then the physics change as warp is initiated. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Mdfka Jones
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.06.13 10:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Did you notice that ships stop instantly before going in to warp? I mean all happens in the following sequence: hit warp (warp drive active); hip aligns/accelerates to about 75% of its maximum speed; stops instantly and warps off.
I bet that instant stop always kills the crew. That's why my ships keep exploding in combat. I knew it. It couldn't be my fault! Thank you so much for pointing this out! |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
518
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Posted - 2013.06.13 10:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Any answers to why a ship enters warp at 75% of their maximal speed, regardless of what that speed might be? Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2844
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Posted - 2013.06.13 10:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:Any answers to why a ship enters warp at 75% of their maximal speed, regardless of what that speed might be? And everyone loses their minds... |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
8596
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Posted - 2013.06.13 10:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Jowen Datloran wrote:Any answers to why a ship enters warp at 75% of their maximal speed, regardless of what that speed might be? And everyone loses their minds... No one remembers, we all blacked out before they discovered those inertia dampers apparently
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Tyrton
Imbecile MIiss Managment and Disasters Intergalactic Interstellar Interns
18
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Posted - 2013.06.13 10:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Opux Dragoon Yacht 4047.10 Cockroach 1469.89
1 gF is your body weight so a 200 lbs male at 4047 gF is experiencing 809400 lbs turning into pod goo. |
ACE McFACE
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve
1350
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
This is probably the first thread I've ever seen started by Chribba. You should be notified if someone quotes your post so you can continue the argument! |
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
144
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Absolutely true that experiencing 240 girlfriends will kill you, one way or another. May not be evil, depending on your point of view. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1167
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:Any answers to why a ship enters warp at 75% of their maximal speed, regardless of what that speed might be?
It would probably turn out to be a factor determined by :-
Ship volume (Length x breadth x height etc), in cubic meters I suppose. Ship mass (in kilograms) Relative acceleration (thrust in meters per second, per second) (I will stick to Newtons here, seeing as the rest is in metric) Please don't ask me to divulge the formula, it's a seekrit!!
All of the above factors come out to a magical 75% of velocity before being able to enter Warp. Think of the magic 75% factor as something like Pi.
My 2c worth
Personnel Division Director --áBene Gesserit Chapterhouse "The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another." - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Xer Jin
DIVERGENT PROXY
65
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
because of aliens ;)
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Lucretia DeWinter
Somali Coast Guard BootCamp
12
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
John Stapp withstood 45g
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stapp#Stapp.27s_law
And that's with just some straps and gaffa tape.
I would think 20,000 years into the future, they would have all kinds of shock-gell and gill-fluid applications that we reduce to simply 'pod goo' |
Thebriwan
LUX Uls Xystus
121
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Was it not so that we CAPSULEERS are INSIDE our pods the whole time when flying a ship? Mainly because of g-forces, better controlling the ship and the thing when we are about to die?
I read it in several pieces of lore (aka the books of EVE tm).
If it is so then the liquid inside the capsule (and our lungs) will mainly protect us from the g-forces alone.
Also: inertia stabs (like that blue badged fellow wrote). |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3709
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Ships accelerate to pre-warp speed with those accelerations and only then the physics change as warp is initiated.
In that case, same thing that allows people to walk on the floor in a null-G environment, aka "artificial gravity" and inertial dampeners. These are the basic assumptions of most science fiction/fantasy universes including Traveller. I'll have to go and re-read the Lensman series to remember how they addressed the issue (but their ships moved by nullifying inertia). Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Iris Bravemount
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
247
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Just imagine the face of the crewmen when they see that the pilot is fitting nanos... Why active tank bonuses are bad for you |
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