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Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
347
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Posted - 2013.06.14 05:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
My first question : is it typical to have to sacrifice the cyno ship ? Correct me , but I think you can have the cyno alt log off to prevent clone costs. But the cyno ship itself is stuck there for 10 mins. So I must assume it will get torched every time during that 10mins of immobility. A quick check on the AH shows a cyno mod is about 1.5 million, the ship is of course extra. So the real cost of lighting a cyno beacon will be the cost of the ship+mods? I did read where someone reps their cyno alt, but I will be in a jump freighter, not a carrier. So no chance to protect my alt.
Also, my resource base is in a 0.7 island surrounded by 0.3 - 0.1 systems. My hi sec gate destination is within jump range. Correct me, but I can initiate a jump from hi sec. So for me to make that jump (either direction) , I need to position my cyno alt on the gate connecting lo sec to hi, undock, jump to the lo sec side of the gate, and gate-jump into hisec ?
What pitfalls should I anticipate? Any other advice you can offer would be awesome!
I'm gonna be practicing this on SiSi soon, but I just wanted to know the exact tactics I need to practice...
Thanks guys ! Help me get my jumping-act together ! |
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard Amarr 7th Fleet
283
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Posted - 2013.06.14 06:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Always assume the cyno will die and make sure you got spares but a noob ship will do to fit it on.
Yep you can jump out of highsec.
You never want to be lighting a cyno on a gate, you won't be in jump range and will die, use a station ( make sure it not a kickout station ) or a pos with a **** ton of nasty stuff on it. |
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
327
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Posted - 2013.06.14 08:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rookie ship with a cyno fitted and Cyno to lvl 4 = 250 ozone which just fit in the rookie ship.
Cost to light a cyno = 1 cyno + Ozone
If cyno survive its a win, if not who really cares. Nisroc Angels Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
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Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
218
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Posted - 2013.06.14 10:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Urgg Boolean wrote:My first question :
.....
I'm gonna be practicing this on SiSi soon, but I just wanted to know the exact tactics I need to practice...
Thanks guys ! Help me get my jumping-act together !
I don't know how anyone else does this, but this is how i do it.
First of all I use a noob-ship to put up the cyno if I'm doing it on a station. no ship costs and you get a new one as soon as you dock.
In order to make it fit, depending on skills you might need to put a T1 cargo expander on it. virtually zero cost there too and if you're smart the first time you jump in you'll just bring a few.
Second, when i want to light the cyno I first start the self destruct. When it gets down to about 15 seconds I pop the cyno and jump. 15 seconds later the cyno ship blows up and both characters dock up. undock again in your new noob ship to pick up the loot (9 times out of 10 your mods will drop) and there you go.
Like I said I don't know how anyone else does it but this works for me.
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Logical Chaos
Justmore
8
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Posted - 2013.06.14 11:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:Urgg Boolean wrote:My first question :
.....
I'm gonna be practicing this on SiSi soon, but I just wanted to know the exact tactics I need to practice...
Thanks guys ! Help me get my jumping-act together ! I don't know how anyone else does this, but this is how i do it. First of all I use a noob-ship to put up the cyno if I'm doing it on a station. no ship costs and you get a new one as soon as you dock. In order to make it fit, depending on skills you might need to put a T1 cargo expander on it. virtually zero cost there too and if you're smart the first time you jump in you'll just bring a few. Second, when i want to light the cyno I first start the self destruct. When it gets down to about 15 seconds I pop the cyno and jump. 15 seconds later the cyno ship blows up and both characters dock up. undock again in your new noob ship to pick up the loot (9 times out of 10 your mods will drop) and there you go. Like I said I don't know how anyone else does it but this works for me.
Confirming loot drop chance is 90%.
Also confirming it totally makes sense to self destruct so you don't get a killmail of a juicy cyno fitted rookie ship on your CYNO ALT. |
Garan Nardieu
Moira. Villore Accords
42
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Posted - 2013.06.14 12:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
My cyno alt survives his 10 minutes more often then not, so just log it off and hope for the best.
Quote:Also, my resource base is in a 0.7 island surrounded by 0.3 - 0.1 systems. My hi sec gate destination is within jump range. Correct me, but I can initiate a jump from hi sec. So for me to make that jump (either direction) , I need to position my cyno alt on the gate connecting lo sec to hi, undock, jump to the lo sec side of the gate, and gate-jump into hisec ?
Unless you want to provide someone with a real nice and juicy killmail (we're talking jump freighters here, right?), you never ever want to do this (positiong cyno on jump gates). The way to get your JF back to your hisec island is fairly simple:
a) find a station with good docking range in your lowsec exit-to-hisec system (models such as this work really well) b) light a cyno within docking range of that station c) jump your JF to that cyno, and then use warp+jump button on gate to hisec (so there is no chance of you bumping off the gate model) d) enter hisec and start breathing again
Things you what to avoid when jumping your JF: a) kickout stations (stations which have extremely short docking range, basically as soon as you undock you'll see that distance from station starts to rise) b) jumping to a system with a lot of active cyno killers (if someone kills your cyno as you jump, problems might happen) c) poorly placing your cyno so that your JF can bounce off station (take your time and check your cyno's positioning, ten times if necessary). d) using JF when youre cognitive capabilites are reduced (read: very tired, drunk etc.)
There is a really good and informative guide written by Azuall Skoll on moving capitals, read it here. Good luck! |
Shahai Shintaro
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
28
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Posted - 2013.06.14 21:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
I would just like to add that your cyno alt should never have more skill points than an alpha clone. |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
347
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Posted - 2013.06.15 05:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thanks all for your contributions. I actually practiced on SiSI today.
I don't know how I got the idea that I was supposed to light a cyno on a gate, but thanks for setting me straight.
I guess all the normal scouting tasks apply too, because even though you are jumping to stations, you might still face hostiles, but risks seem to be minimal with the strategies listed above.
So thanks again. And I sure hope with this knowledge, it won't be me in your kill mails! |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
220
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Posted - 2013.06.16 02:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Logical Chaos wrote: it totally makes sense to self destruct so you don't get a killmail of a juicy cyno fitted rookie ship on your CYNO ALT.
Oh personally I could care less about that. I do it so it doesn't attract attention. People can warp to cyno's and sometimes you'd rather buy more time. Minor point I guess
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Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
48
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Posted - 2013.06.16 03:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
OP can afford a jump freightor but is worried about ~3m isk cyno... |
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Grandma Squirel
Squirel Enterprises
8
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Posted - 2013.06.16 03:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
I find my cyno rookie ships die 50-75% of the time in active lowsec systems. Unless you want to do something else with the cyno alt in under 10 minutes, its better to gamble on living, then to SD and die for sure. Same drop chance on the cyno either way, and many cyno gankers do leave it in the wreck.
As a best practice, you should undock your cyno, move to position, undock your capital, wait out the session timer, then light the cyno and immediately jump. Unless the cyno gankers are on the undock with your cyno, they will not kill it in time to cause you problems with the jump. Often, you can eve do it with them on grid if the undock location is an acceptable cyno spot, though there is the risk you could run into the appearing in deep space/middle of the sun because your cyno died thing.
IF YOU ARE UNFAMILIAR WITH A STATION, use your cyno alt to poke around the docking perimeter and collision box of the station to find a good spot to cyno in to. Also a good idea to check how forgiving the undock is.
Logging off your cyno alt does not mean your pod is safe. Your pod warps out, and can be probed for 15 minutes, though I've never had anyone bother. (obviously in null, it can be bubbled before warping out as well)
Someone above said 250 ozone at cyno 4, its actually 300 at 4, 250 at 5. |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
347
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 04:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:OP can afford a jump freightor but is worried about ~3m isk cyno... LoL - good point. I'm not really worried about it, I just wanted to know costs to add up the "cost of doing business" accurately. Like the old saying : the rich got rich by being cheap bastards. |
Disastro
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
73
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Posted - 2013.06.16 11:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Urgg Boolean wrote:My first question : is it typical to have to sacrifice the cyno ship ? Correct me , but I think you can have the cyno alt log off to prevent clone costs. But the cyno ship itself is stuck there for 10 mins. So I must assume it will get torched every time during that 10mins of immobility. A quick check on the AH shows a cyno mod is about 1.5 million, the ship is of course extra. So the real cost of lighting a cyno beacon will be the cost of the ship+mods? I did read where someone reps their cyno alt, but I will be in a jump freighter, not a carrier. So no chance to protect my alt.
Also, my resource base is in a 0.7 island surrounded by 0.3 - 0.1 systems. My hi sec gate destination is within jump range. Correct me, but I can initiate a jump from hi sec. So for me to make that jump (either direction) , I need to position my cyno alt on the gate connecting lo sec to hi, undock, jump to the lo sec side of the gate, and gate-jump into hisec ?
What pitfalls should I anticipate? Any other advice you can offer would be awesome!
I'm gonna be practicing this on SiSi soon, but I just wanted to know the exact tactics I need to practice...
Thanks guys ! Help me get my jumping-act together !
Cynos lit on stations in low sec get blapped often. It is a cost of doing business in a capital. However, there are ways to limit your losses. If you choose systems right next to high sec to light your cynos then you are going to lose the ship more often. There will be more traffic and there will be more people there looking to get free kills. Less busy systems are better if you want to avoid this.
Also, if you light cyno on a POS instead of a station you will see less interest in killing your cyno ship. Folks wont want to risk losing their ship to the POS.
Sov systems in large nullsec alliance space tend to be a bit safer for lighting cynos. NPC nullsec is far worse. Virtually every neutral will come to shoot at you when they see the beacon. |
GreenSeed
474
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 21:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
people should stop answering questions from some dude who called the market window the "AH". |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
351
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 13:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:people should stop answering questions from some dude who called the market window the "AH". Green : My apologies. Thanks for pointing out that EvE calls the player trading system the "Market". I play many games. Players don't generally have any issues calling the in-game supermarket an AH, because everybody knows what it is, more or less. I do realize that Auctions are one single part of the player trading system in EvE, but AH seemed like a fair moniker, little piggies going to "market" notwithstanding.
I'm happy to refer to the player trading system as the Market if that will make players less likely to withhold valuable strategy info. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
200
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Posted - 2013.06.21 14:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Urgg Boolean wrote:GreenSeed wrote:people should stop answering questions from some dude who called the market window the "AH". Green : My apologies. Thanks for pointing out that EvE calls the player trading system the "Market". I play many games. Players don't generally have any issues calling the in-game supermarket an AH, because everybody knows what it is, more or less. I do realize that Auctions are one single part of the player trading system in EvE, but AH seemed like a fair moniker, little piggies going to "market" notwithstanding. I'm happy to refer to the player trading system as the Market if that will make players less likely to withhold valuable strategy info.
Eh, there's some prejudice here against terms that sound like they come out of WOW or other MMO games. EVE actually has its own auction system, but it's under Contracts, not the Market. You'll pick up the lingo as you go, provided that some people don't freeze the less well-informed out for not using the locally-accepted terminology. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
351
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 16:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
There is virtually no population on SiSi, and certainly no PvP, so it's usefulness for practice has limits. I want to resurrect this thread as a few more questions have popped up as I think about how exactly to jump to/from a real Lo Sec system.
I'm sorry if my questions seem noobish, but if I'm going to risk a boat worth several billion plus untold cargo, I need to make sure i'm gonna get this right. At least, right enough so I don't get ganked on my very first try ...
1) Cyno alt : access and egress : how much stealth will the cyno alt need to carry out his function ? For example should he be covert ops capable ? 2) Jump from Hi Sec to carefully placed cyno near a lo sec station, cool. Then what ? I should not jump in the first place if hostiles show up at the cyno : kk. Alternately, the reason to place the cyno at a station is for a quick life saving dock up. But what conditions constitute a safe time to warp to the gate leading to Hi Sec (either direction of travel in my case) ? Is it just normal scouting rules or do I need to wait for certain population conditions ?
BTW - I have my system/stations all planned out from practice on SiSi. What remains is to scout out my target lo sec systems, and BM the cyno spots. Then I have to get my Nomad out of Dodixie and within jump range of my lo sec entry point. I figure my first few attempts will be without cargo until I get the feel for this mo betta.
As usual, any other advice is welcomed ! Thanks guys !
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Logical Chaos
Justmore
9
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Posted - 2013.06.23 17:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Urgg Boolean wrote:There is virtually no population on SiSi, and certainly no PvP, so it's usefulness for practice has limits. I want to resurrect this thread as a few more questions have popped up as I think about how exactly to jump to/from a real Lo Sec system.
I'm sorry if my questions seem noobish, but if I'm going to risk a boat worth several billion plus untold cargo, I need to make sure i'm gonna get this right. At least, right enough so I don't get ganked on my very first try ...
1) Cyno alt : access and egress : how much stealth will the cyno alt need to carry out his function ? For example should he be covert ops capable ? 2) Jump from Hi Sec to carefully placed cyno near a lo sec station, cool. Then what ? I should not jump in the first place if hostiles show up at the cyno : kk. Alternately, the reason to place the cyno at a station is for a quick life saving dock up. But what conditions constitute a safe time to warp to the gate leading to Hi Sec (either direction of travel in my case) ? Is it just normal scouting rules or do I need to wait for certain population conditions ?
BTW - I have my system/stations all planned out from practice on SiSi. What remains is to scout out my target lo sec systems, and BM the cyno spots. Then I have to get my Nomad out of Dodixie and within jump range of my lo sec entry point. I figure my first few attempts will be without cargo until I get the feel for this mo betta.
As usual, any other advice is welcomed ! Thanks guys !
Going to help on this one:
1) If you plan to make cynos in 0.0 where you do not have trustworthy people in place already that can light a cyno for example because you are doing courier work and therefore entering various different 0.0 Systems then a Covert Ops capable Cyno Alt will have a lot easier time to get there.
You do not have to risk your CovOps for cynoing. Simpy have spare cyno module and Liquid Ozone with you. When you reached your desired system you can dock your ship, eject and warp your pod to another station. Use the rookie ship with expanded Cargohold I (2) and the LO for making the cyno. If there is only one station you can eject the ship in a bookmarked safespot. Obviously you will have to scout the stations before that they are not bubbled when warping your pod around (otherwise make sure to set your clone somewhere close if possible to avoid being podded to the other side of the universe).
2) Hostiles are not that much of a problem to be honest. The session change is so short that you will be able to dock because no Machariel is going to bump you in time. Obviously it helps if you make a mistake: The first possible mistake is that you cynoed your ship too close to the station and it bumped - on a non-Caldari station this can result in you being out of docking range going >1km/s with your ship. If hostiles are on sight you will die in this situation.
The other possible mistake is that you cynoed your ship out of range of the station and you have to slowboat towards it: Again any hostiles around and you will probably die, especially if they have ships available well capable of bumping a JF.
Regarding getting out: If the system you cynoed in has a highsec gate you simply undock and press jump on the highsec gate meaing your JF will warp there and jump instantly. If someone would tackle you when aligning you simply redock. I have warped my Ark right into a pirate gatecamp sitting on the highsec gate this way. |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
366
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 00:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
I wanted to resurrect this thread to thank all the pilots who gave me great help! I've been jumping in and out of lo sec and moving huge amounts of loot back to Hi Sec for sale.
The first time I made the jump, I bungled it badly, even after much practice on SiSI. But I got lucky, and made it.
I am using the self destruct method. The second time I tried this, two T3 cruisers showed up on grid just after my Impairor torched itself, but at that same time the Nomad's speedometer maxed for the jump! It was close, but it worked really well.
I guess the next step is to simply get jumping down to an science, i.e., fine tuning and experience. Then I can think about expanding further into lo sec. For now, all the resources I work with are "close by", meaning within a single jump range. In time, I will push the envelope.
Thanks again guys! All of you really helped me out ! |
Logical Chaos
Justmore
28
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 12:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
You can fit a Rookie ship with the following:
Cyno, 2 Stasis webs and 2 expanded cargo holds (all basic t1).
You will have enough cargo for carrying the Liquid Ozone and webbing your freighter after pressing warp to will make it warp instantly.
And Rookie Ships do not get attacked so often.
EDIT: The only reason to self destruct your cyno would be if you cyno in somewhere off station and do not want people to warp to the cyno (even tho freighter would be long gone with the web method). |
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