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Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2011.10.29 03:38:00 -
[61] - Quote
Holy One wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:Nyio wrote:Nobody likes raised taxes.. I think OP have atleast one good point in that wall of text.
Haven't done any PI myself since they revamped the Planetary Interaction UI. And with the coming changes that would lower any profit made from it, it's not likely I ever will take it up again.
Edit: My perspective on this is all about highsec. Unfortunately, unless the tariffs get raised, the economic case for POCOs falls flat - especially on P1 harvest planets which currently pay a measly 0.10-0.20% in fees compared to their export value. Which hits lo-sec POCOs hardest because they can't, even at 100% tariffs, make enough to pay for the POCO in any reasonable time frame. And if they encourage more then a handful of players to build colonies, the yields go down as the planet gets drained too fast each day. P2 pays a bit more to export, but is still about 0.20-0.30% of current market value. P3 currently pays 3-5% in fees in relation to market value and P4 pays too much at 10-15% of market value. So P1/P2 fees could easily go up 50x and barely make a dent (P4 tariffs need to be cut a bit). Time. Time. Time. The maths are obviously flawed, although less obviously the specifics of that as you point out so expertly are indisputable. But the time taken, soaked up, in conjunction with the risk aversion we all already have plenty of, accounts for this concept instantly. It should never even have been seriously discussed. Its dumb and won't work and that alone is not what annoys me. Its more the fact people are getting paid a salary to come up with this guff and someone on a higher salary, in a position of actual responsibility has no idea how their product functions. Even if PI became 2x more profitable, or 5x more profitable, there's no way I am putting 2bn isk in to five indefensible pinjata POCO just to spend 2-5 hrs a week doing PI and every waking minute wondering if its all going to be wiped out. Anxiety and boredom are not catalysts for pleasure. Nobody will do PI unless they have a locked down system ie wormhole. Or deep sov null - and I can't think of a single person in a sov 0.0 alliance who is going to turn up for POCO ctas on top of all the others. Design philosophy for any game should be 1. Is it technically and budgetarily feasable. 2. Is it fun. 3. Does it add value. 4. Will someone be attracted to this and retained as a customer by it. 1. No. 2. No. 3. NO. 4. LOL
And quoting for truth.
CCP had better be about to announce some planetary based defense shield that can only be deactivated by ground invasion forces or this will be a major case of WTF (if memory serves me DUST is limited to Null at least initially too).
And it would require so many conditions to make them work even then in low sec that even then it would be |
Digital Messiah
The Scope Gallente Federation
61
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Posted - 2011.10.29 03:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
I could see some validity for this argument, if there were not literally hundreds of other avenues to make isk. In defense of CCP, they did fix a few issues with this change and made Pi have a bit more risk. Instead of the time you spend doing Pi, perhaps run an incursion instead? Sorry OP I just can't see the logical connection between the Pi changes and PLEX. "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" |
Holy One
SniggWaffe
67
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Posted - 2011.10.29 03:55:00 -
[63] - Quote
I don't normally bother to offer suggestions but since you mentioned it: its obvious isn't it? a. You need to restrict this to nullsec k and wh space planets and offer defensive capabilities in the form of anchorable deterrent with a cost:protection ratio favourable to the volume of profit/s goods b. There needs to be far greater expanse to PI as a whole to draw people to it.
I'd start by getting rid of tech moons or nerfing them horribly and putting those resources in planets. The rest is academic, and DUST provides the punch for that.
The proposal currently on the table is needlessly complex, completely unoroginal (ie it recycles old code and adds nothing new ergo no value to the game) and has been proven, incontrovertably, over almost a decade, to be of little interest to players. POS bashing has never been a prime mover socially or economically. As a sov mechanic it barely functioned and as an economic conflict driver it is mooted by all your other broken ass game mehanics and balancing.
The fact there are a far greater ratio of griefers:creators/builders/entrepenerial squits in this mmo should be a titanic shadow cast over every single proposal.
I left off a 5. on that previous post btw for my design conditions: 5. Will this, through effect of resonance, cause us to drop net subscribed accounts?
You're going to lose my two PI accounts .. I hope you can say with certainty I will be replaced by new or expansive griefer subs. I know my t2 ammo won't be. But my bile on this one isn't about me or the impact your changes will have on me. Frankly I was bored of PI anyway after a little over 3 months. As our friend above points out - there's just loads of quicker, easier, less tedious and less risky ways to make 400m in 30 days. |
Pent'nor
8
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Posted - 2011.10.29 07:52:00 -
[64] - Quote
I feel for you. You found a way to make enough isk to pay for the game. I'm close to it myself with all 3 of my toons doing heavy PI, but I think the change will add alot to game play and warfare. Although I can't say how much or how it will effect people because I am a highsec person and this change will only mean a higher tax rate for me, which wasn't much to begin with. I'm speculating with the new system in place, the price of these goods will go up because if there isn't a customs office there then its a huge pain and the offices will be used in warfare. So it may mean more isk for the highsec pi's and lots more isk for the corps that hold a home system and can defend it. I really have no clue, i'm just guessing. |
Terminal Insanity
Convex Enterprises
44
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Posted - 2011.10.29 09:20:00 -
[65] - Quote
If you've played since 2005 then you'd know PLEX / GTC's were around before PI, and that even if CCP removed PI, this wouldnt really impact the majority of PLEX'd accounts.
What i'm more worried about is PLEX prices, and what NeX is going to do to them in the future. Giving away free AUR i think helped keep PLEX prices from skyrocketing even worse, but i remember only a couple years ago i was paying 160mil for 30d GTC. Now its over 400mil. And introducing new products that are available only through consuming PLEX? (increasing demand for PLEX) should only drive prices higher. This is not a good thing.
Lucky for me i developed my eve "PLEX independance" earlier when i only had to earn 160 a month to keep my account alive. Now i'm making quite a bit and can afford the 400mil. If i was trying to do the same thing with today's prices... it would have taken me a -LOT- longer |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
349
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Posted - 2011.10.29 11:30:00 -
[66] - Quote
OP, I have really hard time deciding which one should win... yours or this.
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
102
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Posted - 2011.10.29 11:39:00 -
[67] - Quote
Ottman wrote:Well... how should i start ?
i try to keep it short, in the beginning ccp tried to get control over the rmt situation, and with the introduction of plex they made on one hand a big throw in this case, but on the other hand they have signed an unspoken agreement. it means that player that find ways to earn enough isk legally within eve can buy plex and plax the game "for free", but it really means they play eve in a way that support the eve economy and the eve community, and it was good and worked fine, especially when pi came up and we players could skill up and raise up colonies, it was perfect. from that point of time the unspoken agreement was this, feed the eve market with the requested pi goods, and you get isk for plex to play the game and support the community, and it again worked fine and perfect.
but with the announcement of the player customs office you have broken this agreement ccp, and this means you kick those players that use plex to stay online out of eve online, if you wish so then say it, have the eggs and reply to this post and tell it toward the community, so that all players that use plex to play eve can at least leave eve online in an organized way, if that is what you want ccp. and not only words form an agreement, actions do that also, just to clarify it. and tbh, all the flaming that will follow i will ignore, only staff member from ccp that reply to this post i will read and response, the rest... i dont care.
i play eve since 2005, six years altogether, and i deserve an answer from you ccp guys and i demand it, and if you dont give me an answer then i take it as the worst answer possible. must all the eve players that play eve over plex and earn isk with pi feel like player second class that no one is interested in ? are they getting hunted down like this ? do they really deserve this ccp ? give an answer to this questions, in your own interest !
MfG Ottman
what is this I don't even
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Dane El
Daneco Inc.
3
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Posted - 2011.10.29 11:41:00 -
[68] - Quote
I encourage the OP to look into other ways to purchase PLEX. I buy two a month (used to be three but I have little need for that third alt anymore) and have not trained one PI skill on any pilot.
Eve has a multitude of ways to make tons of isk. I wouldn't put Pi high on that list at all. A couple months back I looked at Pi as a potential new venture and quickly dismissed it. It's way too much grunt work for too little profit compared to many other activities. |
Ottman
LoneWolf Mining Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.10.29 23:21:00 -
[69] - Quote
sorry that i do this again, but i havent got the proper answer from ccp side... push |
Ottman
LoneWolf Mining Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.10.30 20:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
and again ... push |
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JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
56
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Posted - 2011.10.30 20:37:00 -
[71] - Quote
You have to be kidding me....
You haven't received a reply because you are presenting your argument without even the slightest understanding of PLEX, or the announced changes to PI.
And since you said right off the bat that you wont read any replies from anybody but a dev or GM, you are ignoring the help of others as they waste their time trying to be helpful and attempt to increase your understanding of this misinformed argument. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1064
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Posted - 2011.10.30 20:40:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ottman wrote:sorry that i do this again, but i havent got the proper answer from ccp side... push The problem is that if CCP were to give you the proper answer, they'd have to ban themselves afterwards for the nasty things they saidGǪ GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
56
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Posted - 2011.10.30 20:42:00 -
[73] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ottman wrote:sorry that i do this again, but i havent got the proper answer from ccp side... push The problem is that if CCP were to give you the proper answer, they'd have to ban themselves afterwards for the nasty things they saidGǪ
Every so often, I like you Tippia. ;) |
Cypermethren
Hardcore p0wnography Cascade Probable
24
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Posted - 2011.10.30 21:00:00 -
[74] - Quote
so OP is mad that a new item/mechanic has been implimented into the game
One that you have to manufacture from a blueprint which is sold from LOYALTY POINT VENDORS.
Totaly forces people whom use plex to pay for game time to stop paying for said plex with isk and go out and buy customs offices instead.
Because customs offices are...... wait... who cares about them anyway? go away OP |
rachann
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2011.10.30 21:30:00 -
[75] - Quote
Tayrne Orun wrote:CCP is just making the game better by pushing further in a direction that EVE has always been directed, a player driven world.
You mean a criminal driven world
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Ottman
LoneWolf Mining Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.11.01 17:03:00 -
[76] - Quote
and again push... |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
356
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Posted - 2011.11.01 17:08:00 -
[77] - Quote
Can I have your stuff ?
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JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
70
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Posted - 2011.11.01 17:12:00 -
[78] - Quote
Lykouleon wrote:The OP is filled with so much logical fallacy that even I can't troll it.
And I can usually troll anything.
Yes, and hes been bumping this thread since the 22nd of last month now. And on top of that doesn't even bother to read anything people post to help him understand any of it.
Its becoming an eyesore. |
Ottman
LoneWolf Mining Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.11.02 00:56:00 -
[79] - Quote
yeah well forum flaming, trolling, annoying crap, i dont read it really, 99,9 % is bullshit, and tbh i need answer from ccp, player cant give me any answer i want, so again... push |
Amro One
One.
17
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Posted - 2011.11.02 01:02:00 -
[80] - Quote
In one day you can make enough ISK and more to buy a plex from doing incursions.
And some one had to uses real cash to get that plex into game market,
Yet another moron not thinking before posting. |
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Soldarius
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
58
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Posted - 2011.11.02 02:55:00 -
[81] - Quote
What is this? I don't even... just no. gb2wow "How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Langbaobao
Most Wanted INC White Noise.
2
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Posted - 2011.11.02 13:50:00 -
[82] - Quote
Trolololololl guys.
Don't you understand? Ottman is trolling the lot of you and you've fallen for it. Don't you hear the lolz he's having reading your replies after every bump he makes? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1125
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Posted - 2011.11.02 14:14:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ottman wrote:i need answer from ccp, player cant give me any answer i want Then why did you post on the forums rather than address it to CCP?
By the way, the GÇ£99.9% bullshit" quota was filled by the nonsense in your OP, so you can pretty safely read the rest of the thread.
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Ottman
LoneWolf Mining Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.11.02 19:09:00 -
[84] - Quote
ah well sorry for ignoring you , but i dont expect nothing but trolling from other players in forum, this is a warfield where those who react to trolling have lost already lol...
and because of missing ccp answer... push |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1132
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Posted - 2011.11.02 19:28:00 -
[85] - Quote
Ottman wrote:and because of missing ccp answer... push If you want an answer from CCP, why don't you contact them instead of addressing the players?
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2011.11.03 02:49:00 -
[86] - Quote
ccp no hablas stupidito push stupid incarna lovin pedestrians |
Ottman
LoneWolf Mining Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.11.04 00:39:00 -
[87] - Quote
and to annoy everyone including other players and ccp... push |
Ottman
LoneWolf Mining Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.11.04 23:44:00 -
[88] - Quote
well ccp how long do you want to ignore a question from a long time customer ? ppl like me have supported you long enough, and you already pissed off enough of them, most of them have left eve already, and ppl like me with now 6 years of playing eve or even longer are really very rare within the eve community, and we talk about first hand accounts, nothing else to make it clear. dont break your given word, and as i said, what you deliver as features are kind of deals and promises toward the players too, and in the end the community has at least one last vote, and that is turning their back to you and quit eve online. how many quits can you afford before you understand that you are not the masters, you are employees ccp, everyone of you, you work in the end for us, and not otherwise, we are not cash delivering cattle where you can do with whatever you want, but maybe you understand only when its nearly too late for ya and when we as community have lost another great mmo that eve online was and can be again if you choose the right decisions, means directly dont touch pi, hands off custom offices, leave them npc, pi as it is still now is good, and eve community needs a steady stream of pi goods, and that business has to be open for everyone willing to choose it whereever he want, that was eve online philosophy all the years back. and pi is, even when some forum flamer yell carebear, one base of the eve economy, even those forum flamers and "can i have your stuff" yellers need pi goods, even when they dont realize it. every pvp ship directly produced in 0.0 space, from frigate toward capital ship needs a pos to run, who will be able to do that when pi goods are expensive like hell ? or more basic, t2 ammo needs pi goods too, or do you think rocket fuel is something you can produce in npc station ? meep wrong... pi based. pi is the basement for all real good stuff that you pew pew addicted guys need to have the fun, and you should be at least aware enough that your fun is in danger, not only the carebear you like to flame in forum. because give a griefer in eve online an option to grief without fearing consequences and he will do it, no matter if others have to suffer or not, and to bring it back in mind, most pi and industry based stuff is done in small corps that cant defend against griefers and called in merc corps as example. you want a stable and affordable flow of pi goods that ensure constant pew pew and fun ? that think twice and let ccp know what you think about this...
MfG Ottman |
flakeys
The Great cornholio's Paper Tiger Coalition
35
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Posted - 2011.11.05 10:00:00 -
[89] - Quote
For crying out loud what a whiner you are dude , really.
First off if you play for that long , and i am one of those too , and you can't make 400 to 500 M a month you really don't know how the game works.People who only have started out a year back can pay it with ease yet you as a veteran have troubles with it jeez.
CCP has been so kind -offcourse for own gains-to introduce this feature in the first place because as you know back in the days you could only pay with cash so let's roll back to that one shall we as you are so against the way plex prices go.IF people don't pay 450 for a plex then the price drops , yet people pay for it so it rises and rises , you know like in rl supply and demand.
Your complaining about plex prices and then also complaining you can not pay it with PI any more , wich are TWO FEATURES that came a long time after we started playing so again let's kill off plex and while we are at it kill of PI?CCP handed you a way to not pay cash for a game aka plex and they handed a way to earn easy isk aka PI.
And on a sidenote you do not need to pay 450 or so for PLEX if you are smart but then i doubt you are as pointed out if you can not make this kind of cash as a vet you REALLY have not been paying attention for years. |
Ottman
LoneWolf Mining Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.11.07 00:16:00 -
[90] - Quote
bla bla senseless flame bla bla.. who cares, and btw ... push :P |
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