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Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
67
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback
Why? Is it the working up from nonfactor to beloved with factions that you don't like - or the fact that you wind up picking sides by what you do - or ??? |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
327
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GrV3OZdjP8
Tell The Others |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3129
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Then there would be no consequences for pve activities outside of "I might get ganked for my shinies". The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
67
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Elliavir wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback Why? Is it the working up from nonfactor to beloved with factions that you don't like - or the fact that you wind up picking sides by what you do - or ???
the problem is if i run some missions the standings go down too fast with the other factions, and if it goes too low I'm unble to access their space anymore as the npc navy will attack me, however i need to go around as I'm trading a lot, basically i wanto to run missions and do all stuff in the game but when it hinders my trading it blocks me from doing it... OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
2437
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
0/10
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
327
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Elliavir wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback Why? Is it the working up from nonfactor to beloved with factions that you don't like - or the fact that you wind up picking sides by what you do - or ??? the problem is if i run some missions the standings go down too fast with the other factions, and if it goes too low I'm unble to access their space anymore as the npc navy will attack me, however i need to go around as I'm trading a lot, basically i wanto to run missions and do all stuff in the game but when it hinders my trading it blocks me from doing it...
Trader/Hauler?
Distribution Missions
Tell The Others |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
67
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Then there would be no consequences for pve activities outside of "I might get ganked for my shinies".
yea i know, however it just feels like it hinders me to play the game to its full potential, maybe they should make it possible to pay down the negative standing with ISK, I don't know... mabe also reduce the power of the navy ships so you just have to fight in negative empire space but not get killed immediatley... OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
67
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Posted - 2013.06.14 19:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
-1 OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Zak Matrix
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Try avoiding missions where you have to shoot faction navies, killing those faction ships hits your standing a lot. Hits from storyline missions are minimal compared to that.
And you can always train diplomacy, and go through the faction standing repair plan. |
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Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
67
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Posted - 2013.06.14 19:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zak Matrix wrote:Try avoiding missions where you have to shoot faction navies, killing those faction ships hits your standing a lot. Hits from storyline missions are minimal compared to that.
And you can always train diplomacy, and go through the faction standing repair plan.
yea i know, for the missions thats a possibility but for faction warfare? basically i can not take part in that because of that mechanic, at some point it takes far too long to get the standing up again, the repair plan also takes ages
i want to be able to try out everything, but with all the time put into the character if feels like I don't want to screw the standing too much because it could lock me out of big areas of the map, it just does not feel right OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
67
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Elliavir wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback Why? Is it the working up from nonfactor to beloved with factions that you don't like - or the fact that you wind up picking sides by what you do - or ??? the problem is if i run some missions the standings go down too fast with the other factions, and if it goes too low I'm unble to access their space anymore as the npc navy will attack me, however i need to go around as I'm trading a lot, basically i wanto to run missions and do all stuff in the game but when it hinders my trading it blocks me from doing it... Trader/Hauler? Distribution Missions
you don't get it, I want to paly everything not just parts of the game! OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
332
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Elliavir wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback Why? Is it the working up from nonfactor to beloved with factions that you don't like - or the fact that you wind up picking sides by what you do - or ??? the problem is if i run some missions the standings go down too fast with the other factions, and if it goes too low I'm unble to access their space anymore as the npc navy will attack me, however i need to go around as I'm trading a lot, basically i wanto to run missions and do all stuff in the game but when it hinders my trading it blocks me from doing it... Trader/Hauler? Distribution Missions you don't get it, I want to paly everything not just parts of the game!
Your right I dont get it
Cake + eat it? or just trollolol? Only the fan can decide.
Tell The Others |
Zak Matrix
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Like I said there's ways to repair your faction standing.
Unless you want to be part of FW an still be able to go enemy area without being shot at, I don't think that would work anyway. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
67
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Your right I dont get it
Cake + eat it? or just trollolol? Only the fan can decide.
stupid non helful comments = blocked!
ciao! OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
332
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:
Your right I dont get it
Cake + eat it? or just trollolol? Only the fan can decide.
stupid non helful comments = blocked! ciao!
Cya o/
Tell The Others |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
332
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
At ten in the morning I was laughing at something At the airport terminal At nine in the evening I was sitting crying to you over the phone Well passing the border from a state to another Filled with people whom I couldn't help to relate to And we stopped a while at a roadside restaurant Where the waitress was sitting outside smoking in her car She had that look of total fear in her eyes And as we drove away from there she looked at me and She smiled
I keep running around Trying to find the ground But my head is in the stars And my feet are in the sky Well I'm nobody's baby I'm everybody's girl I'm the queen of nothing I'm the king of the world
And once you asked me well what's my biggest fear That things would always remain so unclear That one day I'd wake up all alone With a big family and emptiness deep in my bones That I would be so blinded, turn a deaf ear And that my fake laugh would suddenly sound sincere
Now I wasn't born for anything Wasn't born to say anything Oh I'm just here now and soon I'll be gone I'm nobody's baby I'm everybody's girl I'm the queen of nothing I'm the king of the world
Now everyday there's a short intermission While I sleep they start dimming the lights But I've seen everything I ever want to see Screaming "Fire!" in a theater people taking their seats Watch it all go down like a stone in a stream If you fall for your reflection you will drown in a dream
Tell me something real Tell me something true I just want to feel there's something left that I can do But I'm nobody's baby I'm everybody's girl I'm the queen of nothing I'm the king of the world
Tell The Others |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
67
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zak Matrix wrote:Like I said there's ways to repair your faction standing.
Unless you want to be part of FW an still be able to go enemy area without being shot at, I don't think that would work anyway.
just want to do it some time and leave it again, however after that my standing would be hit so bad i would need to invest boring hours into the repair plan, thats why I did not do it yet, like i said i just do not feel it is the optimal solution for the game, for me it feels like more of a hindernis to play it openly OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
332
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'm told my idea of seduction is a bit passe' I hear you like to try it so I'll try it anyway I would try anything I swear I'd try it here and now I might impress you with a Rudolf Valentino bow I tell you to get your attention I'd do anything I would work night and day for all the joy that she would bring I'd like to be the hunter who gets captured by the game Oh won't you run your fingers through my mane
I've gotta have my cake and eat it I've gotta have my cake and eat it, too I've gotta have my cake and eat it I've gotta have my cake and eat it, too
I want fun I've gotta run to you
To me you look just like a treasure chest of pretty things Already told you I would buy you ten real diamond rings Oh let me tell you I got lots of things that you could use So don't reject it or I'll get the love rejection blues I tell you baby any wish of yours is my command I'd pay you money if you'd only say you'd hold my hand I'd speak in languages that only you could ever hear Oh baby baby, won't you please come here
I've gotta have my cake and eat it I've gotta have my cake and eat it, too I've gotta have my cake and eat it I've gotta have my cake and eat it, too
I want fun I've gotta run to you
I said I'd pay you money if you'd only hold my hand I hear you like to try it so I go ahead as planned I hear my smoochie talkin' might just be a bit old hat So I'll watch what I'm sayin' I don't think you'd go for that A little birdie told me that you just might feel the same If you do then all you have gotta do is call my name I would do anything I swear I'd do it here and now I might impress you with a Rudolf Valentino bow
I've gotta have my cake and eat it I've gotta have my cake and eat it, too I've gotta have my cake and eat it I've gotta have my cake and eat it, too I've gotta have my cake and eat it I've gotta have my cake and eat it, too
Tell The Others |
Seetesh
RTS - POS Deployments
47
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Right first off try another game, second stop moaning and crying like a little girl about a mechanic that has worked for so well for long. You need to adapt! Third I have no problem coming to help relieve you of your mission ship and pod.
Ten years + here and 14 accounts and I have done t all just sub another too. Or go play wow. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14832
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:you don't get it, I want to paly everything not just parts of the game! SoGǪ just go ahead and do it. Nothing is stopping you.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Seetesh wrote:Right first off try another game, second stop moaning and crying like a little girl about a mechanic that has worked for so well for long. You need to adapt! Third I have no problem coming to help relieve you of your mission ship and pod.
Ten years + here and 14 accounts and I have done t all just sub another too. Or go play wow.
10 years playing did not help you to improove on your social skills, you might open the window and talk to some people in RL from time to time
no more comment like that needed, you are on my endless ignorelist because of damaged communication mechanics and a lack of respect, ciao! OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
332
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote: 10 years playing did not help you to improove on your social skills, you might open the window and talk to some people in RL from time to time
no more comment like that needed, you are on my endless ignorelist because of damaged communication mechanics and a lack of respect, ciao!
This guy is a real hypocrit
Reminds me of someone my brother used to know....
John Peenix?
Jake Fonics?
Nah its gone.......
Tell The Others |
Zircon Dasher
228
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
This argument sounds really familiar.
Like REALLY familiar.
Like tags4sec familiar.
Since we already have a tag4standing mechanic in place the only change necessary would be to remove the "one-time" use restriction on data centers. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:This argument sounds really familiar.
Like REALLY familiar.
Like tags4sec familiar.
Since we already have a tag4standing mechanic in place the only change necessary would be to remove the "one-time" use restriction on data centers.
yes i think that would help, CCP implemented the new tag4sec as well because they did notice that some players decided to leave the game because their character was locked out of high sec, if the data centers could be used more often that would be an ideal and easy sollution I think OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
771
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:
Your right I dont get it
Cake + eat it? or just trollolol? Only the fan can decide.
stupid non helful comments = blocked! ciao! I wish I could block you from EVE and send you to WoW instead. That would increase each games' average player IQ! |
Jimmy Morane
Aurora Novae Aetatis Expoit This Mf's
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Seetesh wrote:Right first off try another game, second stop moaning and crying like a little girl about a mechanic that has worked for so well for long. You need to adapt! Third I have no problem coming to help relieve you of your mission ship and pod.
Ten years + here and 14 accounts and I have done t all just sub another too. Or go play wow. 10 years playing did not help you to improove on your social skills, you might open the window and talk to some people in RL from time to time no more comment like that needed, you are on my endless ignorelist because of damaged communication mechanics and a lack of respect, ciao!
lol dude if you keep putting people on your ignore list their will be no one to talk with. Errr well maybe that should tell you something about your own communication mechanics.
And before you ignore me,
ciao!!!11111!!!! |
Oggat
The Adam's Family
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:This argument sounds really familiar.
Like REALLY familiar.
Like tags4sec familiar.
Since we already have a tag4standing mechanic in place the only change necessary would be to remove the "one-time" use restriction on data centers. yes i think that would help, CCP implemented the new tag4sec as well because they did notice that some players decided to leave the game because their character was locked out of high sec, if the data centers could be used more often that would be an ideal and easy sollution I think
No it wouldn't. Data Center standings still impact opposition factions.
The system is designed to be whack-a-mole. All repeatable Data Center's would do is remove mission grind. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ifly Uwalk wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:
Your right I dont get it
Cake + eat it? or just trollolol? Only the fan can decide.
stupid non helful comments = blocked! ciao! I wish I could block you from EVE and send you to WoW instead. That would increase each games' average player IQ!
most of the time only people with low IQ think that others have the same because their own IQ hinders them to understand the higher IQ people, understand? OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Oggat wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:This argument sounds really familiar.
Like REALLY familiar.
Like tags4sec familiar.
Since we already have a tag4standing mechanic in place the only change necessary would be to remove the "one-time" use restriction on data centers. yes i think that would help, CCP implemented the new tag4sec as well because they did notice that some players decided to leave the game because their character was locked out of high sec, if the data centers could be used more often that would be an ideal and easy sollution I think No it wouldn't. Data Center standings still impact opposition factions. The system is designed to be whack-a-mole. All repeatable Data Center's would do is remove mission grind.
yea thats right the interaction of the standings is something I'm not so excited about as well :D OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
|
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:25:00 -
[31] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Elliavir wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback Why? Is it the working up from nonfactor to beloved with factions that you don't like - or the fact that you wind up picking sides by what you do - or ??? the problem is if i run some missions the standings go down too fast with the other factions, and if it goes too low I'm unble to access their space anymore as the npc navy will attack me, however i need to go around as I'm trading a lot, basically i wanto to run missions and do all stuff in the game but when it hinders my trading it blocks me from doing it...
Don't run missions where you shoot other factions' navies and your standing won't drop so fast. It then becomes very easy and possible to visit all the factions and not get shot at. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jimmy Morane wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Seetesh wrote:Right first off try another game, second stop moaning and crying like a little girl about a mechanic that has worked for so well for long. You need to adapt! Third I have no problem coming to help relieve you of your mission ship and pod.
Ten years + here and 14 accounts and I have done t all just sub another too. Or go play wow. 10 years playing did not help you to improove on your social skills, you might open the window and talk to some people in RL from time to time no more comment like that needed, you are on my endless ignorelist because of damaged communication mechanics and a lack of respect, ciao! lol dude if you keep putting people on your ignore list their will be no one to talk with. Errr well maybe that should tell you something about your own communication mechanics. And before you ignore me, ciao!!!11111!!!!
just read again how he talked to me, if you feel you need that kind of communication, just add him as friend, no problem... i do not need it though, there are enough people on the planet who are worth talking to, for me there is no need to talk on that level OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Elliavir wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback Why? Is it the working up from nonfactor to beloved with factions that you don't like - or the fact that you wind up picking sides by what you do - or ??? the problem is if i run some missions the standings go down too fast with the other factions, and if it goes too low I'm unble to access their space anymore as the npc navy will attack me, however i need to go around as I'm trading a lot, basically i wanto to run missions and do all stuff in the game but when it hinders my trading it blocks me from doing it... Don't run missions where you shoot other factions' navies and your standing won't drop so fast. It then becomes very easy and possible to visit all the factions and not get shot at.
yea i will try that for the missions, thanks... OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
27
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
Seetesh wrote:Right first off try another game, second stop moaning and crying like a little girl about a mechanic that has worked for so well for long. You need to adapt! Third I have no problem coming to help relieve you of your mission ship and pod.
Ten years + here and 14 accounts and I have done t all just sub another too. Or go play wow.
I think invoking "WoW" should be the Eve equivalent of Godwin's law. |
Oggat
The Adam's Family
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Oggat wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:This argument sounds really familiar.
Like REALLY familiar.
Like tags4sec familiar.
Since we already have a tag4standing mechanic in place the only change necessary would be to remove the "one-time" use restriction on data centers. yes i think that would help, CCP implemented the new tag4sec as well because they did notice that some players decided to leave the game because their character was locked out of high sec, if the data centers could be used more often that would be an ideal and easy sollution I think No it wouldn't. Data Center standings still impact opposition factions. The system is designed to be whack-a-mole. All repeatable Data Center's would do is remove mission grind. yea thats right the interaction of the standings is something I'm not so excited about as well :D
Don't use Navy corps if what you are trying to obtain is access to 4 racial corps, not the full races. You won't get access to high sec POS or even clones but you can get a corp in each nation to where you can run 4's anywhere.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see Data Centers no longer be static. Switching out loyalties is what pirates do with sec tags. Doing the same with pirate dog tags for the Nations would be balanced. Pirates buy Sec, mission runners buy standings.
Have it 3 months like Epic Arc, add in a second tier for commander and you could switch out what nation you are loyal to at about the same speed as you can remap. |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
341
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Seetesh wrote:Right first off try another game, second stop moaning and crying like a little girl about a mechanic that has worked for so well for long. You need to adapt! Third I have no problem coming to help relieve you of your mission ship and pod.
Ten years + here and 14 accounts and I have done t all just sub another too. Or go play wow. I think invoking "WoW" should be the Eve equivalent of Godwin's law.
I cannot agree strongly enough
Tell The Others |
Zircon Dasher
228
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Oggat wrote: The system is designed to be whack-a-mole. All repeatable Data Center's would do is remove mission grind.
Whack-a-mole is actually fine in this instance. I am pretty sure the mission grind is the most awful part of the current mechanic. Its much slower and more nauseating than sec grind ever was. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1966
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Zak Matrix wrote:Try avoiding missions where you have to shoot faction navies, killing those faction ships hits your standing a lot. Hits from storyline missions are minimal compared to that.
And you can always train diplomacy, and go through the faction standing repair plan. yea i know, for the missions thats a possibility but for faction warfare? basically i can not take part in that because of that mechanic, at some point it takes far too long to get the standing up again, the repair plan also takes ages i want to be able to try out everything, but with all the time put into the character if feels like I don't want to screw the standing too much because it could lock me out of big areas of the map, it just does not feel right This is why many have alts.
The trading/ hauling alt does few missions, or avoids the faction kill missions.
Other alts allow their standings to crash with some factions, and just do not go there.
Between all your alts you can try it all. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Elliavir wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback Why? Is it the working up from nonfactor to beloved with factions that you don't like - or the fact that you wind up picking sides by what you do - or ??? the problem is if i run some missions the standings go down too fast with the other factions, and if it goes too low I'm unble to access their space anymore as the npc navy will attack me, however i need to go around as I'm trading a lot, basically i wanto to run missions and do all stuff in the game but when it hinders my trading it blocks me from doing it...
I find the rep changes immersive (it wouldn't make sense to me to be shooting up Amarr ships one day, and welcomed with cookies and mission offers in their spece the next). And I haven't (yet) really felt the urge to try out Amarr or Caldari missions - I'm happy with Gallente and Minmatar love.
However, I do have an alt who handles my trading - because I am really not loved in half of Empire space.
Have you considered having 2 characters to play on either side of the loyalties fence, and then a very neutral alt to handle trades and hauling? With the new dual-training thing for PLEX, it's a bit more convenient.
As other folks have noted - you can turn down missions that involve shooting at other factions, or do distribution missions. But that does limit your play options, which seems to be what you don't want. So just spread it out over multiple characters? |
Oggat
The Adam's Family
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Oggat wrote: The system is designed to be whack-a-mole. All repeatable Data Center's would do is remove mission grind.
Whack-a-mole is actually fine in this instance. I am pretty sure the mission grind is the most awful part of the current mechanic. Its much slower and more nauseating than sec grind ever was.
I'm not about to argue if CCP decide to make data center based standings similar to sec tags.
250,000 or so souls from dog tags in Jita vaults are telling me I'd have rocks in my head. But as an alternative because those are good, can we reproc the commander tags to racial moon goo and the regualr tags for a little raw moon goo based on rank?
I'd rather nuke them but 5K in minerals seems a bit comical for some of them. |
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Zircon Dasher
229
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
Elliavir wrote: Have you considered having 2 characters to play on either side of the loyalties fence, and then a very neutral alt to handle trades and hauling? With the new dual-training thing for PLEX, it's a bit more convenient.
As other folks have noted - you can turn down missions that involve shooting at other factions, or do distribution missions. But that does limit your play options, which seems to be what you don't want. So just spread it out over multiple characters?
Why should people be forced to have alts? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Zak Matrix wrote:Try avoiding missions where you have to shoot faction navies, killing those faction ships hits your standing a lot. Hits from storyline missions are minimal compared to that.
And you can always train diplomacy, and go through the faction standing repair plan. yea i know, for the missions thats a possibility but for faction warfare? basically i can not take part in that because of that mechanic, at some point it takes far too long to get the standing up again, the repair plan also takes ages i want to be able to try out everything, but with all the time put into the character if feels like I don't want to screw the standing too much because it could lock me out of big areas of the map, it just does not feel right This is why many have alts. The trading/ hauling alt does few missions, or avoids the faction kill missions. Other alts allow their standings to crash with some factions, and just do not go there. Between all your alts you can try it all.
yea i know, if it would not take so much time to train up all the alts no problem, and just personally i would like to play with just one character, for me the immersion to the game is better if i play just one person in the game, i would prefer to be able in some way without big drawbacks to play all i want with just this one, but if there are no changes i might endup playing my alts as well OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Elliavir wrote: Have you considered having 2 characters to play on either side of the loyalties fence, and then a very neutral alt to handle trades and hauling? With the new dual-training thing for PLEX, it's a bit more convenient.
As other folks have noted - you can turn down missions that involve shooting at other factions, or do distribution missions. But that does limit your play options, which seems to be what you don't want. So just spread it out over multiple characters?
Why should people be forced to have alts?
I swear I wasn't pointing my blaster at anyone's head when I wrote that.
Part of the charm of EVE, for many, is that in-game actions have in-game consequences... both from other players and from the game itself. One could just as easily ask why people should be forced to give up the rewards and drawbacks of playing loyal faction citizens in order to accommodate someone else disliking those consequences. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
Elliavir wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Elliavir wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback Why? Is it the working up from nonfactor to beloved with factions that you don't like - or the fact that you wind up picking sides by what you do - or ??? the problem is if i run some missions the standings go down too fast with the other factions, and if it goes too low I'm unble to access their space anymore as the npc navy will attack me, however i need to go around as I'm trading a lot, basically i wanto to run missions and do all stuff in the game but when it hinders my trading it blocks me from doing it... I find the rep changes immersive (it wouldn't make sense to me to be shooting up Amarr ships one day, and welcomed with cookies and mission offers in their spece the next). And I haven't (yet) really felt the urge to try out Amarr or Caldari missions - I'm happy with Gallente and Minmatar love. However, I do have an alt who handles my trading - because I am really not loved in half of Empire space. Have you considered having 2 characters to play on either side of the loyalties fence, and then a very neutral alt to handle trades and hauling? With the new dual-training thing for PLEX, it's a bit more convenient. As other folks have noted - you can turn down missions that involve shooting at other factions, or do distribution missions. But that does limit your play options, which seems to be what you don't want. So just spread it out over multiple characters?
yea sure i thought about the alts, the training time for them seems to be the biggest drawback on that, and i would prefer to be just one character in the game, because it would feel better, i think its kind of fancy if people talk to me in the game and then they say hey by the way this is my alt here is my main, for me its cooler if you just play with one person in a game like this one... but like mentioned in another comment if there are no changes to this mechanic i might endup playing more with alts as well, but i would prefer just to play with one...
the consequences are fine, but there should just be a way to pay that consequences down with ISK or make it possible to go the other way a bit faster with tags or something, at the moment the consequences block you out of areas for too long in my opinion OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Winter Archipelago
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
23
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 22:15:00 -
[45] - Quote
EvE was pretty much designed with the intentions of it being extraordinarily difficult (if not impossible, in some cases) to be able to do absolutely everything on a single character. You can, in fact, have +9.99 standings with all the empires, as well as all the pirates, but it will be a long and arduous journey.
What you're asking is, at the most basic level, akin to having to only train a single weapons system to gain access to all of them; after all, if you train one, you aren't training another without stopping the current training path. Why should you be "locked out" of other weapons systems?
Faction standings are the same: Having perfect (or near-perfect, considering the fun rounding actions that go on) is very much doable: just think of it as if you were cross-training weapons systems or racial ships. Ransoms are accepted in Isk, Ships, Mods, and Dolls. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 22:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
Oggat wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Oggat wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:This argument sounds really familiar.
Like REALLY familiar.
Like tags4sec familiar.
Since we already have a tag4standing mechanic in place the only change necessary would be to remove the "one-time" use restriction on data centers. yes i think that would help, CCP implemented the new tag4sec as well because they did notice that some players decided to leave the game because their character was locked out of high sec, if the data centers could be used more often that would be an ideal and easy sollution I think No it wouldn't. Data Center standings still impact opposition factions. The system is designed to be whack-a-mole. All repeatable Data Center's would do is remove mission grind. yea thats right the interaction of the standings is something I'm not so excited about as well :D Don't use Navy corps if what you are trying to obtain is access to 4 racial corps, not the full races. You won't get access to high sec POS or even clones but you can get a corp in each nation to where you can run 4's anywhere.
Faction navies can and do give non-faction missions and can be used to gain the standings you want/need. You can get access to POS's without any faction navies shooting at you. That's easy. Clones? Did they change something? I thought it was just standings with a NPC corp, which doesn't go down.
It is more than possible, it is what my mission-running character has done. Currently he has unmodified standings of 6.98, 4.40, 4.05 and -1.02 for the big four. Modified with skills makes them all positive. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 22:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:EvE was pretty much designed with the intentions of it being extraordinarily difficult (if not impossible, in some cases) to be able to do absolutely everything on a single character. You can, in fact, have +9.99 standings with all the empires, as well as all the pirates, but it will be a long and arduous journey.
What you're asking is, at the most basic level, akin to having to only train a single weapons system to gain access to all of them; after all, if you train one, you aren't training another without stopping the current training path. Why should you be "locked out" of other weapons systems?
Faction standings are the same: Having perfect (or near-perfect, considering the fun rounding actions that go on) is very much doable: just think of it as if you were cross-training weapons systems or racial ships.
how should that be doable? if my standing goes up with one faction, others go down automatically, it is told on the wiki that the +9 like you say is not possible with all factions because of that... OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 22:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback
You HAVE trained diplomacy, yes? |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 22:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Winter Archipelago wrote:EvE was pretty much designed with the intentions of it being extraordinarily difficult (if not impossible, in some cases) to be able to do absolutely everything on a single character. You can, in fact, have +9.99 standings with all the empires, as well as all the pirates, but it will be a long and arduous journey.
What you're asking is, at the most basic level, akin to having to only train a single weapons system to gain access to all of them; after all, if you train one, you aren't training another without stopping the current training path. Why should you be "locked out" of other weapons systems?
Faction standings are the same: Having perfect (or near-perfect, considering the fun rounding actions that go on) is very much doable: just think of it as if you were cross-training weapons systems or racial ships. how should that be doable? if my standing goes up with one faction, others go down automatically, it is told on the wiki that the +9 like you say is not possible with all factions because of that...
Go to your character sheet. Click on 'standings'. Right-click on one of the factions symbols and choose 'show transactions'. Now go to the opposite faction and do the same thing. Compare the missions and not the 'derived modification'.
What you should find is that the numbers don't balance, they are skewed towards making the faction standings positive if you keep bringing each one up when it gets too low. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 22:25:00 -
[50] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback You HAVE trained diplomacy, yes?
yea i trained those skills and for sure they help, but when i do some missions the hit on the standing seems to be too hard although i got those skills, maybe i need to dig into that a bit more and try, just don't want to screw it up so i can't bring it back up again OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
|
Zircon Dasher
229
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 22:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
Elliavir wrote: I swear I wasn't pointing my blaster at anyone's head when I wrote that.
Part of the charm of EVE, for many, is that in-game actions have in-game consequences... both from other players and from the game itself. One could just as easily ask why people should be forced to give up the rewards and drawbacks of playing loyal faction citizens in order to accommodate someone else disliking those consequences.
I agree that there should be consequences thus why people would have to find the tags or pay for them just like the sec tags.
While RP reasons are good for some things, I am not sure they are great at justifying locking people out of game content just because they do not want to have an alt....just like people in low sec should not have to have a hauler alt/Incursion alt or be barred from participating in highsec wars. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
773
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 22:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Winter Archipelago wrote:EvE was pretty much designed with the intentions of it being extraordinarily difficult (if not impossible, in some cases) to be able to do absolutely everything on a single character. You can, in fact, have +9.99 standings with all the empires, as well as all the pirates, but it will be a long and arduous journey.
What you're asking is, at the most basic level, akin to having to only train a single weapons system to gain access to all of them; after all, if you train one, you aren't training another without stopping the current training path. Why should you be "locked out" of other weapons systems?
Faction standings are the same: Having perfect (or near-perfect, considering the fun rounding actions that go on) is very much doable: just think of it as if you were cross-training weapons systems or racial ships. how should that be doable? if my standing goes up with one faction, others go down automatically, it is told on the wiki that the +9 like you say is not possible with all factions because of that... It is in fact possible, just very time-consuming, as Winter pointed out. What you do is
... oh wait, you blocked me - nvm. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 22:30:00 -
[53] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Winter Archipelago wrote:EvE was pretty much designed with the intentions of it being extraordinarily difficult (if not impossible, in some cases) to be able to do absolutely everything on a single character. You can, in fact, have +9.99 standings with all the empires, as well as all the pirates, but it will be a long and arduous journey.
What you're asking is, at the most basic level, akin to having to only train a single weapons system to gain access to all of them; after all, if you train one, you aren't training another without stopping the current training path. Why should you be "locked out" of other weapons systems?
Faction standings are the same: Having perfect (or near-perfect, considering the fun rounding actions that go on) is very much doable: just think of it as if you were cross-training weapons systems or racial ships. how should that be doable? if my standing goes up with one faction, others go down automatically, it is told on the wiki that the +9 like you say is not possible with all factions because of that... Go to your character sheet. Click on 'standings'. Right-click on one of the factions symbols and choose 'show transactions'. Now go to the opposite faction and do the same thing. Compare the missions and note the 'derived modification'. What you should find is that the numbers don't balance, they are skewed towards making the faction standings positive if you keep bringing each one up when it gets too low.
i dig into that a bit more, for me I did have the feeling that it was going down faster as it would go up, therefore bringing them all up seemed to be impossible not screwing the opposite faction standings OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Zircon Dasher
230
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 22:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote: What you're asking is, at the most basic level, akin to having to only train a single weapons system to gain access to all of them; after all, if you train one, you aren't training another without stopping the current training path. Why should you be "locked out" of other weapons systems?
Faction standings are the same: Having perfect (or near-perfect, considering the fun rounding actions that go on) is very much doable: just think of it as if you were cross-training weapons systems or racial ships.
That is a pretty terrible analogy since training projectiles does not decrease the SP one has in lasers in the short term. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Oggat
The Adam's Family
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 02:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Faction navies can and do give non-faction missions and can be used to gain the standings you want/need. You can get access to POS's without any faction navies shooting at you. That's easy. Clones? Did they change something? I thought it was just standings with a NPC corp, which doesn't go down.
It is more than possible, it is what my mission-running character has done. Currently he has unmodified standings of 6.98, 4.40, 4.05 and -1.02 for the big four. Modified with skills makes them all positive.
Many tertiary corps don't have cloning facilities. Most in fact. Yes, you can cherry pick navy missions and get through it but you will take far longer in the end from 4 hr down times between declines.
Like so many things in EVE, what they say and what they mean are as far apart as stars. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 04:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
Oggat wrote:Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Faction navies can and do give non-faction missions and can be used to gain the standings you want/need. You can get access to POS's without any faction navies shooting at you. That's easy. Clones? Did they change something? I thought it was just standings with a NPC corp, which doesn't go down.
It is more than possible, it is what my mission-running character has done. Currently he has unmodified standings of 6.98, 4.40, 4.05 and -1.02 for the big four. Modified with skills makes them all positive.
Many tertiary corps don't have cloning facilities. Most in fact. Yes, you can cherry pick navy missions and get through it but you will take far longer in the end from 4 hr down times between declines. Like so many things in EVE, what they say and what they mean are as far apart as stars. Oh and faction navy shooting at you? I meant putting a POS in HS. 5.00 to 7.00 with an empire is off the grid if you want to keep the other nations where you can run level 4 missions. Yes, again you 'could' do it, if you wanted to alternate races and run missions in a marathon method for 5 or 6 years.
But navy agents are more abundant, so it's a trade-off. You decline certain missions, go to another agent when you can't get one you want. And they usually have more lvl 4 agents, so they're the first corps I go to.
And I'm saying you can put a POS in HS without being shot at by other factions. Because I have already done that. Again, I have a character with 6.98, 4.40, 4.05 and -1.02 standings. I can put a POS up in hi-sec. I can visit all the empire quadrants without being shot at. If running missions is your thing, it's not that hard to do. |
Seetesh
RTS - POS Deployments
49
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 07:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
So who else is up for a war dec ?
CCP really lowered the bar when they allowed this player to come into the game and troll it.
In reference to my poor social skills; true that's probably related to me being a bit of a a** h***. That aside I shall come and relieve you of your missioning dilemma and the problems you face with standings.
P.S. Don't insult this game, it works perfectly fine. |
Kara Vix
Sanford and Son Salvage
185
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 07:39:00 -
[58] - Quote
Your suggestion would completely wipe out all lore in Eve. If anything I think factions should want to kill members of opposing races from start, begin at neg 10 with the two opposing factions. I recall the countless orcs I killed in everquest so the freeport guards wouldn't kill me, it was very fun to work on faction gain-gave another dimension to the game rather than just kill X because its there. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 07:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
Kara Vix wrote:Your suggestion would completely wipe out all lore in Eve. If anything I think factions should want to kill members of opposing races from start, begin at neg 10 with the two opposing factions. I recall the countless orcs I killed in everquest so the freeport guards wouldn't kill me, it was very fun to work on faction gain-gave another dimension to the game rather than just kill X because its there.
yes i agree that there might need to be some consequences, however i think there should be a better way to fight your way out of the bad standings, maybe with paying down with ISK or with tags, at the moment it seems that you can get stuck with a bad standing to the factions forever, and in addition to that, the standings go down too fast in my opinion, just run a view missions and had -2 at some already, if i would join factional warfare just for some time i would lock me out of the opponent territory for ages OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Kara Vix
Sanford and Son Salvage
185
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 08:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Kara Vix wrote:Your suggestion would completely wipe out all lore in Eve. If anything I think factions should want to kill members of opposing races from start, begin at neg 10 with the two opposing factions. I recall the countless orcs I killed in everquest so the freeport guards wouldn't kill me, it was very fun to work on faction gain-gave another dimension to the game rather than just kill X because its there. yes i agree that there might need to be some consequences, however i think there should be a better way to fight your way out of the bad standings, maybe with paying down with ISK or with tags, at the moment it seems that you can get stuck with a bad standing to the factions forever, and in addition to that, the standings go down too fast in my opinion, just run a view missions and had -2 at some already, if i would join factional warfare just for some time i would lock me out of the opponent territory for ages
Well you sound like you want absolutely no consequences for actions in this game, and this is a game where every little thing has unseen consequences that can someday get you podded. You have to either accept that Eve is an intentionally harsh universe and has rewards for its harshness or move on, though I would prefer you to stay and learn how to balance faction standings-hate to see people get hung up on the little things and leave. I currently am hated by Amarr (I can't help it-I love blowing up their shinies) but I have Amarr agents in Minmatar space for whom I can mission to repair standings. Just don't go so low in standing that you can't work for an agent and its easy to balance. |
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Kara Vix
Sanford and Son Salvage
185
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 08:06:00 -
[61] - Quote
Last note to OP: If you are not aware, you can use the agent finder in your captains quarters to find agents from all 4 empires located in just about every region of space. So if Caldari hates you and you are in Minmatar space wanting to repair Caldari faction, the agent finder will tell you what corp in Minmatar space is aligned with the Caldari and you can run missions for them to repair your faction (only storylines repair empire standings). |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3141
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 08:11:00 -
[62] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Then there would be no consequences for pve activities outside of "I might get ganked for my shinies". yea i know, however it just feels like it hinders me to play the game to its full potential, maybe they should make it possible to pay down the negative standing with ISK, I don't know... mabe also reduce the power of the navy ships so you just have to fight in negative empire space but not get killed immediatley...
Navy ships are already pretty weak. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 08:17:00 -
[63] - Quote
Kara Vix wrote:Last note to OP: If you are not aware, you can use the agent finder in your captains quarters to find agents from all 4 empires located in just about every region of space. So if Caldari hates you and you are in Minmatar space wanting to repair Caldari faction, the agent finder will tell you what corp in Minmatar space is aligned with the Caldari and you can run missions for them to repair your faction (only storylines repair empire standings).
yea i know that, however i find the process of grinding up too slow in comparison to how fast the standings can be damaged... OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Kara Vix
Sanford and Son Salvage
185
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 08:20:00 -
[64] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Kara Vix wrote:Last note to OP: If you are not aware, you can use the agent finder in your captains quarters to find agents from all 4 empires located in just about every region of space. So if Caldari hates you and you are in Minmatar space wanting to repair Caldari faction, the agent finder will tell you what corp in Minmatar space is aligned with the Caldari and you can run missions for them to repair your faction (only storylines repair empire standings). yea i know that, however i find the process of grinding up too slow in comparison to how fast the standings can be damaged...
Almost like real life isn't it |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 08:28:00 -
[65] - Quote
Kara Vix wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Kara Vix wrote:Last note to OP: If you are not aware, you can use the agent finder in your captains quarters to find agents from all 4 empires located in just about every region of space. So if Caldari hates you and you are in Minmatar space wanting to repair Caldari faction, the agent finder will tell you what corp in Minmatar space is aligned with the Caldari and you can run missions for them to repair your faction (only storylines repair empire standings). yea i know that, however i find the process of grinding up too slow in comparison to how fast the standings can be damaged... Almost like real life isn't it
:) OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
179
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 08:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Elliavir wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback Why? Is it the working up from nonfactor to beloved with factions that you don't like - or the fact that you wind up picking sides by what you do - or ??? the problem is if i run some missions the standings go down too fast with the other factions, and if it goes too low I'm unble to access their space anymore as the npc navy will attack me, however i need to go around as I'm trading a lot, basically i wanto to run missions and do all stuff in the game but when it hinders my trading it blocks me from doing it... Trader/Hauler? Distribution Missions you don't get it, I want to paly everything not just parts of the game!
then obviously the solution is that every time you lose standing with one of the big four you should immediately travel to that faction and do a mission in penance for firing upon their troops. Be the true neutral you are.
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 08:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:yea i know, however it just feels like it hinders me to play the game to its full potential
What the ships and all to be handed over for free, too? "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Charlie Jacobson
209
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 09:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
As someone without alts, I also think the faction standing mechanics are bad. Getting faction standings back up is a mind numbing grind with practically zero income on top. At the start of my EVE career I didn't know about them, and accepted a lot of anti-faction missions. I literally had to do ALL the career agents of every race to get my faction standings back to safe levels.
I don't know why people are being so hostile toward the OP. Tags4faction would make more sense than tags4sec does imo. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 11:28:00 -
[69] - Quote
Super spikinator wrote:
then obviously the solution is that every time you lose standing with one of the big four you should immediately travel to that faction and do a mission in penance for firing upon their troops. Be the true neutral you are.
tried it but it looks like firing on ships damages the standing more then running missions, so you become negative faster as positive, and you got a hard time runing higher missions with that tactic as you stay close to the 0 standing that way...
however some said its possible to do it, i guess i still need to just try it a bit more, nevertheless factional warefare seems to be impossible if you want to keep good standing in the long run, thats why a possibility to repair the standing with tags or ISK downpayment would be welcome, no need to have this cheap, i just want to go around playing multible level 1 missions to bring it up slowly again, that just sounds boring for me, there needs to be a better solution than that... OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
553
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 11:35:00 -
[70] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback
So the game doesn't work the way you want it to?
Noted.
How about posting that i F&I and see if anyone agrees?
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 11:39:00 -
[71] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly this just hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback So the game doesn't work the way you want it to? Noted. How about posting that i F&I and see if anyone agrees?
actually I put it into GD like you see and there are already lots who agree, how about you just give us insight in your opinion? OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 12:44:00 -
[72] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:honestly the NPC Faction Standing hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback
Ummmmm.... you know the mechanics, aka rules of game, you made choice to do a certain thing, and now you complain about what you have done because it has consequences that were known before you started it.
Your sense of entitlement is as massive as your lack of awareness and what a game with choices and consequences means.
Grow a pair, try to use your brain, think about what you do and the effects it has before you start.
remember the old proverb... "Look before you leap".
I got probes from the Rookie-á tutorial, they are indestructible, unforgettable and will never need to be replaced, but maybe i will eventually upgrade them to Sisters that are also unforgettable, indestructible and will never need to be replaced. CCP-¦s New Motto: Shiny over Substance |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 12:54:00 -
[73] - Quote
Brainless Bimbo wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly the NPC Faction Standing hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback Ummmmm.... you know the mechanics, aka rules of game, you made choice to do a certain thing, and now you complain about what you have done because it has consequences that were known before you started it. Your sense of entitlement is as massive as your lack of awareness and what a game with choices and consequences means. Grow a pair, try to use your brain, think about what you do and the effects it has before you start. remember the old proverb... "Look before you leap".
please learn to read and understand before making silly and insulting comments like that, I mentioned that I did not make wrong choices, actually the mechanics hold me back from playing the game like intended, therefore some points where added, study some more and come back when you have a better view on what this is about, thanks... OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Real Folk Spike
CQRW
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 12:58:00 -
[74] - Quote
Brainless Bimbo wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly the NPC Faction Standing hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback Ummmmm.... you know the mechanics, aka rules of game, you made choice to do a certain thing, and now you complain about what you have done because it has consequences that were known before you started it. Your sense of entitlement is as massive as your lack of awareness and what a game with choices and consequences means. Grow a pair, try to use your brain, think about what you do and the effects it has before you start. remember the old proverb... "Look before you leap".
It sounds like talking about issues about sec status.
But it got changed, and we have tag4sec. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 13:01:00 -
[75] - Quote
It sounds like talking about issues about sec status.
But it got changed, and we have tag4sec.[/quote]
no its about faction standings, thats something different, however the issue could be solved like ccp did with the security standings OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14842
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 13:06:00 -
[76] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:I mentioned that I did not make wrong choices, actually the mechanics hold me back from playing the game like intended No. The only thing holding your back is your choices. If you aren't happy with the results, then they were obviously the wrong choices. This is entirely as intended.
GǪoh, and you can already buy faction standing for tags. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
19
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 13:36:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Harry Forever wrote:I mentioned that I did not make wrong choices, actually the mechanics hold me back from playing the game like intended No. The only thing holding your back is your choices. If you aren't happy with the results, then they were obviously the wrong choices. This is entirely as intended. GǪoh, and you can already buy faction standing for tags.
A Google search using the term "eve online faction standings for tags" pulled up this link to the Evelopedia...
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Data_Centers
Evelopedia wrote: Event Agents located at Data Centers offer a one time agent mission that will give Faction standing for a number of pirate tags. Data Centers are deadspace locations found at beacons in high-security 'Empire' space. There are twelve Data Centers total with three Data Centers for each of the four major Empire factions, Caldari, Minmatar, Gallente and Amarr. (Amarr share theirs with the Ammatar and have more agents total.)
I'm pretty sure you can purchase the pirate tags in Jita and other popular market hubs.
I hope this helps
The Nosy Gamer - Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength - Eric Hoffer |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 14:24:00 -
[78] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:
please learn to read and understand before making silly and insulting comments like that, I mentioned that I did not make wrong choices, actually the mechanics hold me back from playing the game like intended, therefore some points where added, study some more and come back when you have a better view on what this is about, thanks...
you might as well check your wording I'm not a 16 year old, so you can behave like a grown up in case you got the skills for that...
hold on you say " actually the mechanics hold me back from playing the game like intended "
so your saying the game mechanics, also known as the rule set, are stopping you from playing according to the rule set, aka the game mechanics
You take part in FW and know that 2 Factions will get pissed off and you complain about it is all i-¦m seeing. There are numerous ways to get standings within existing game mechanics, some available within jumps of where you are.
Silly and insulting, lol, look in mirror matey. I got probes from the Rookie-á tutorial, they are indestructible, unforgettable and will never need to be replaced, but maybe i will eventually upgrade them to Sisters that are also unforgettable, indestructible and will never need to be replaced. CCP-¦s New Motto: Shiny over Substance |
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 15:01:00 -
[79] - Quote
I think I also should be able to gank the OP's ship in a rookie ship with free L33T Jovian weapons with no sec standings hits. I am upset that this part of the game off limits to me on my main because I am too poor to whelp t2 tornados and buy security tags. This is an outrage!!!! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 16:48:00 -
[80] - Quote
The Chronophage wrote:I think I also should be able to gank the OP's ship in a rookie ship with free L33T Jovian weapons with no sec standings hits. I am upset that this part of the game off limits to me on my main because I am too poor to whelp t2 tornados and buy security tags. This is an outrage!!!!
keep calm and read the details then you might understand better... OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
|
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 16:55:00 -
[81] - Quote
I put you on ignore now, read through your first comment and you sure will understand why, you may as well rethink your character name next time, yours has a racist understatement, for that alone you should get banned
ps: if you want to understand a thread you need to read the deatails not only the header OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14844
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 17:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:I put you on ignore now, read through your first comment and you sure will understand why Yes: you have no way of addressing his very valid points, especially the one showing that your problem doesn't even really existGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 17:32:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tippia, as you might know, your on my ignore list since day one, trust me i did read through some of your comments before that, we will not come together though, there is no need to continously post on my threads as i won't read it, I'm just telling you again because i see your name popup all the time, just let go, there are many other threads where you can play your game, i prefer to have serious discussion, thanks OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3153
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 17:35:00 -
[84] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Tippia, as you might know, your on my ignore list since day one, trust me i did read through some of your comments before that, we will not come together though, there is no need to continously post on my threads as i won't read it, I'm just telling you again because i see your name popup all the time, just let go, there are many other threads where you can play your game, i prefer to have serious discussion, thanks
Nevermind that Tippia knows more about how the game works than pretty much everyone. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 17:46:00 -
[85] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Tippia, as you might know, your on my ignore list since day one, trust me i did read through some of your comments before that, we will not come together though, there is no need to continously post on my threads as i won't read it, I'm just telling you again because i see your name popup all the time, just let go, there are many other threads where you can play your game, i prefer to have serious discussion, thanks Nevermind that Tippia knows more about how the game works than pretty much everyone.
there are people who can learn a book and repeat it line by line without a mistake, but still not understanding a single word OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
98
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 18:05:00 -
[86] - Quote
OP, i have 5,89 Galante standing, 3,47 Minmatar standing, 1,72 Caldari standing, 1,32 Amarr standing, all positive, when you do missions, and faction missions, its just about looking at the consequence of them, its true at times i will have to turn some missions down, but thats what i love with Eve, things come with a price tag, you can do it all, but can is not allways the same as the smart thing, ie like most things in eve, patience ! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 18:10:00 -
[87] - Quote
Fey Ivory wrote:OP, i have 5,89 Galante standing, 3,47 Minmatar standing, 1,72 Caldari standing, 1,32 Amarr standing, all positive, when you do missions, and faction missions, its just about looking at the consequence of them, its true at times i will have to turn some missions down, but thats what i love with Eve, things come with a price tag, you can do it all, but can is not allways the same as the smart thing, ie like most things in eve, patience !
did you play faction warfare? OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14846
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 18:17:00 -
[88] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Tippia, as you might know, your on my ignore list since day one GǪand that is your problem. You wilfully ignore valuable information and create problems for yourself that simply don't exist (or at least wouldn't if you instead chose to stay informed).
No matter how much you want to ignore it, the simple fact remains: your problem doesn't exist. Your solution already exists. You have just (wrongly) chosen to not make use of what's been given to you. The only way to fix that is for you to become receptive. This is a problem with you, and not with the game GÇö nothing can (or should) be done to the game to fix you.
Quote:there are people who can learn a book and repeat it line by line without a mistake, but still not understanding a single word GǪbut unfortunately, you don't qualify for this exalted position. Instead, you fail to read to begin with, and then complain about not understanding while making every mistake in the book. It all could be so easily avoided if you chose to learn instead of ignorantly opine on things you know nothing about. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 19:05:00 -
[89] - Quote
Kara Vix wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Kara Vix wrote:Your suggestion would completely wipe out all lore in Eve. If anything I think factions should want to kill members of opposing races from start, begin at neg 10 with the two opposing factions. I recall the countless orcs I killed in everquest so the freeport guards wouldn't kill me, it was very fun to work on faction gain-gave another dimension to the game rather than just kill X because its there. yes i agree that there might need to be some consequences, however i think there should be a better way to fight your way out of the bad standings, maybe with paying down with ISK or with tags, at the moment it seems that you can get stuck with a bad standing to the factions forever, and in addition to that, the standings go down too fast in my opinion, just run a view missions and had -2 at some already, if i would join factional warfare just for some time i would lock me out of the opponent territory for ages Well you sound like you want absolutely no consequences for actions in this game, and this is a game where every little thing has unseen consequences that can someday get you podded. You have to either accept that Eve is an intentionally harsh universe and has rewards for its harshness or move on, though I would prefer you to stay and learn how to balance faction standings-hate to see people get hung up on the little things and leave. I currently am hated by Amarr (I can't help it-I love blowing up their shinies) but I have Amarr agents in Minmatar space for whom I can mission to repair standings. Just don't go so low in standing that you can't work for an agent and its easy to balance.
in my opinion tags4faction would be a good idea, as some agree the system right now is not perfect, you should stay open for changes, nothing is perfect from the start, there needs to be an evolution, trust me it will be for the better
when the system was implemented not all options in the game have been available compared to today, thats why adjustment needs to happen OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14848
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 19:12:00 -
[90] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:in my opinion tags4faction would be a good idea So why aren't you making use of it? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
|
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 20:43:00 -
[91] - Quote
It works just fine how it is now. If you want to participate in factional warfare or take missions where you shoot up other factions' navies, that is you choice and it has consequences.
You are taking missions where you shoot other navies and then wondering why the standings go down so fast? They're going down that fast because that is what was intended. If you want to trade in the Caldari quadrant, don't shoot Caldari ships. If you want to trade in the Gallente quadrant, don't shoot Gallente ships. If you want to trade in all the quadrants, don't take missions where you shoot navy ships. Only pirate faction missions (Gurista, Serpentis, etc.) |
Zircon Dasher
234
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 20:43:00 -
[92] - Quote
Tippia wrote: GǪoh, and you can already buy faction standing for tags.
Once.
After that you are required to grind for days. That is fine if you exhibit "bot aspirant" (I think this is the new fangled term?) behavior or are ok with doing noob missions while your friends are off in some other region having fun. Not everyone thinks that inhibiting the ability to play with friends is a good thing.
All that also completely ignores the fact that it is entirely possible to ruin your standings permanently. lol Imagine if you could only recover from -5 sec standing ONCE.
Keeping people from playing with their friends because of wallets or RP is bad game design. CCP realized this a long time ago when they introduced the current standing mechanics 5(?) years ago. People are more mobile than ever and CCP should keep up with player trends. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 20:47:00 -
[93] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:" as the character skill training is so timeconsuming I prefer just playing with my main, therefore I would prefer a better way to repair damaged faction standings"
You mean this detail? I too would like CCP to give me lots of free isk. That would save me a lot of time.
The game is designed to punish aggression against the enemy faction while rewarding you with LP from your faction. If you want to shoot people without losses in faction standing, you should be in non-fw lowsec, nullsec or wh space. Hell, you can still shoot militia members in lowsec while being OUTSIDE fw. Like in the old days where fw was really pvp instead being full of carebear LP farmers.
From your detailed whine, it is clear you just want to farm faction tags from missions and/or LP from FW whilst being too lazy to skill up a trading alt. Skip those empire faction missions, stay out of FW, and you'll have no standing problems in highsec. Unless you're dumb enough to get caught smuggling contrabands. |
Zircon Dasher
234
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 20:50:00 -
[94] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:It works just fine how it is now. If you want to participate in factional warfare or take missions where you shoot up other factions' navies, that is you choice and it has consequences.
You are taking missions where you shoot other navies and then wondering why the standings go down so fast? They're going down that fast because that is what was intended. If you want to trade in the Caldari quadrant, don't shoot Caldari ships. If you want to trade in the Gallente quadrant, don't shoot Gallente ships. If you want to trade in all the quadrants, don't take missions where you shoot navy ships. Only pirate faction missions (Gurista, Serpentis, etc.)
What about folks who ruined thier standings a long time ago? Should they be forced to roll an alt or not be allowed to play with their friends because they did something to an NPC corp? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14854
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 20:50:00 -
[95] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:All that also completely ignores the fact that it is entirely possible to ruin your standings permanently. Not any more. These days, it's always possible to dig yourself out of any kind of standings hole you've chosen to jump down into.
Quote:Keeping people from playing with their friends because of wallets or RP is bad game design. Neither of those keep people from playing with their friends. Only their (and their friends') decisions do that. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
479
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 20:52:00 -
[96] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Harry Forever wrote:in my opinion tags4faction would be a good idea So why aren't you making use of it? Last time I checked, there's only tags4sec at the moment. Did I miss anything? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14854
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 20:55:00 -
[97] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Last time I checked, there's only tags4sec at the moment. Did I miss anything? Data centres have been around since roughly forever and are where the idea for tags-for-sec comes from. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 20:59:00 -
[98] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Barrogh Habalu wrote:Last time I checked, there's only tags4sec at the moment. Did I miss anything? Data centres have been around since roughly forever and are where the idea for tags-for-sec comes from.
...and everyone knows you can only do that once. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14855
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 21:01:00 -
[99] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:...and everyone knows you can only do that once. GǪwhich is plenty to get you out of trouble with the local faction so you can go pursue some new career.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Zircon Dasher
234
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 21:10:00 -
[100] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Not any more. These days, it's always possible to dig yourself out of any kind of standings hole you've chosen to jump down into.
My bad. For some reason I thought even the level 1 mission agents would not talk to you at some point.
Realistically though there is not much of a change. Effectively you boned unless you are a bot who has the desire to play lvl 1 mission online for the next 300 hours. Terrible mechanic is terrible.
Quote:Keeping people from playing with their friends because of wallets or RP is bad game design. Neither of those keep people from playing with their friends. Only their (and their friends') decisions do that.[/quote]
LOL. This is merely semantics and you know it. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
|
Zircon Dasher
234
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 21:12:00 -
[101] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Smohq Anmirorz wrote:...and everyone knows you can only do that once. GǪwhich is plenty to get you out of trouble with the local faction so you can go pursue some new career.
Assuming that you did not use it years ago. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14855
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 21:15:00 -
[102] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:LOL. This is merely semantics and you know it. No, it's mechanics. The OP claims that game mechanics make things impossible for him, when they in fact do the opposite.
Iit's only his insistence on not learning the mechanics in question and blocking out everyone offering him advice that keeps him from doing anything. He made his choice and now thinks that his decisions are flaws in the game mechanics. He could solve his problem if he wanted to, but chooses not to or doesn't know how to, and instead chooses to ignore all avenues available.
GǪhe even refuses to admit that these are all pretty bad choices.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 21:18:00 -
[103] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Smohq Anmirorz wrote:...and everyone knows you can only do that once. GǪwhich is plenty to get you out of trouble with the local faction so you can go pursue some new career. ...OP does not sound like he's trying to change his career. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14855
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 21:25:00 -
[104] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:OP does not sound like he's trying to change his career. Then he needs to accept the intended design of that career choice: he picks a side. The other side will not like him. It is as it should be.
GǪand it still doesn't mean he's not allowed to play with his friends or forced to do anything. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
86
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 21:30:00 -
[105] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Smohq Anmirorz wrote:OP does not sound like he's trying to change his career. Then he needs to accept the intended design of that career choice: he picks a side. The other side will not like him. It is as it should be. GǪand it still doesn't mean he's not allowed to play with his friends or forced to do anything.
I know. I'm just saying that suggesting he use tags for faction doesn't help him, he's not trying to change his career. This piece of advice you offer is much more relevant. |
Kult Altol
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
417
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 21:35:00 -
[106] - Quote
I woulden't mind a more expedient way to repair faction. When I first started playing I shot up everything, and now two of my standings are terrible. An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14856
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 21:36:00 -
[107] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:I know. I'm just saying that suggesting he use tags for faction doesn't help him, he's not trying to change his career. This piece of advice you offer is much more relevant. Well, sure. The problem is that he's going on as if the mechanic doesn't exist at all, which rather suggests not being familiar with the game mechanics GÇö a problem that's further deepened by his apparent fondness for blocking people who are trying to explain things to him.
The other problem is his choice of activity (which he refuses to accept as a bad one, in spite of it apparently causing effects he's not fond of) GÇö a problem that is not actually what he thinks it is since if he was simply running missions, the standings loss is entirely avoidable (again, a result of bad choices), and if it's a matter of doing FW, the standings loss is irrelevant since he could have +10 across the board and still be hunted for being an enemy of the stateGǪ
Either way, it's a matter of wilful ignorance far more than of bad game mechanics. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Zircon Dasher
238
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 22:09:00 -
[108] - Quote
@Tippia and Smohq
TBH I am not interested in the OP on a literal basis.
The fact that it is *possible* to raise standings from -10 does not negate the fact that grinding missions (after the single use get out of jail free card) is worse than grinding sec status as it would be akin to making pvp'ers rat up sec status shooting 16 frigs/increase. All it does is effectively force people into long PVE grinds. The people who might "abuse" the tag system for financial gain already do so via alts (see this thread), so the only people getting punished are those people who want one character and do not want to spend the next month doing PVE just because they took part in game content years ago.
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Zircon Dasher
238
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 22:14:00 -
[109] - Quote
Tippia wrote: the standings loss is entirely avoidable (again, a result of bad choices), and if it's a matter of doing FW, the standings loss is irrelevant since he could have +10 across the board and still be hunted for being an enemy of the stateGǪ
Either way, it's a matter of wilful ignorance and refusal to accept responsibility far more than of bad game mechanics.
The same could be said about sec standing. Many players, and CCP evidently, thought it was a bad mechanic. If the principle does not apply in this case I would be interested in hearing why not. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Kali Maat
PVP FAST
21
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 22:16:00 -
[110] - Quote
the tags4sec work great. tegs4standing would be a great.way to help people from corporation with different players from different origins align there standing in a more flexible and meaning full way then grinding missions. (wich is not entirely the most fun part of playing Eve by far. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14861
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 22:26:00 -
[111] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:The same could be said about sec standing. Many players, and CCP evidently, thought it was a bad mechanic. Actually, no, the same thing was never said about sec status. It being a punishment for GÇ£badGÇ¥ behaviour was always fully accepted. It was also never really seen as a bad choice.
I suppose what you're really referring to is the recover mechanic. The difference there is that sec status recover hasn't actually changed: it's still a lot of grinding that needs to be done. It has just been decoupled in time and space (and agency). Faction standing has had a quick out for yonks. Another difference is that grinding sec status back always was (and still is) much easier than faction standing GÇö the latter being more of a long-term decision consequence GÇö which would explain why the quick out was needed, but only available as a one shot.
The principle applies. It applies so hard that it existed long before it was transferred to sec status. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8329
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 22:27:00 -
[112] - Quote
When you make a decision to join Factional Warfare, you are no longer a Civilian and have become an active member of a Militia in an on-going war which is bound by different rules.
Doesn't matter if you have positive standing with the Enemy Factions and haven't shot any opposing ships. You will still be attacked by their defending forces if you enter their space simply due to being a member of a Militia that has declared open war..
That's it. Decisions have consequences. However, with a little bit of time those consequences can be amended by other decisions.
As a Civilian, you can quickly repair negative Faction standings within a few weeks. Doesn't matter if you've spent years acquiring -10.00 Faction standing, it can still be repaired rather quickly through various methods. If you had actually researched 'The Plan', you'd know that countless of New Eden Citizens have quickly and easily repaired their negative Faction standings.
If you want to do it, you can do everything in Eve. You just have to plan accordingly and as in real life, it takes time to implement.
DMC
|
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 22:56:00 -
[113] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:When you make a decision to join Factional Warfare, you are no longer a Civilian and have become an active member of a Militia in an on-going war which is bound by different rules. Doesn't matter if you have positive standing with the Enemy Factions and haven't shot any opposing ships. You will still be attacked by their defending forces if you enter their space simply due to being a member of a Militia that has declared open war.. That's it. Decisions have consequences. However, with a little bit of time those consequences can be amended by other decisions. As a Civilian, you can quickly repair negative Faction standings within a few weeks. Doesn't matter if you've spent years acquiring -10.00 Faction standing, it can still be repaired rather quickly through various methods. If you had actually researched ' The Plan', you'd know that countless of New Eden Citizens have quickly and easily repaired their negative Faction standings. If you want to do it, you can do everything in Eve. You just have to plan accordingly and as in real life, it takes time to implement. DMC
i did read through the plan, it is flawed as it lets players with high trained characters play level one missions for hours wich are extremly boring for them, the faction standing system needs a revamp, it is outdated and does not fit into the game anymore, just keeping it because it always was like that is the worst argument, the game and playstyle did change a lot, therefore that area needs to be adjusted. tags4faction would offer both, consequences for what you do and a more flexible way to fix it. thats the future! OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
91
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:18:00 -
[114] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:
i did read through the plan, it is flawed as it lets players with high trained characters play level one missions for hours wich are extremly boring for them, the faction standing system needs a revamp, it is outdated and does not fit into the game anymore, just keeping it because it always was like that is the worst argument, the game and playstyle did change a lot, therefore that area needs to be adjusted.
Stop shooting at enemy navies, then. Why is this so hard to understand? If you want to be a trader/hauler in all four quadrants, you can't shoot the navies of those four quadrants. If you want to participate in fw or take missions that shoot other navies, you should not be surprised when those same navies want to shoot you. Shooting other navies and having them welcome you into their space are kinda' opposites of each other.
It's really your choice. Shoot one or more navy factions on a regular basis or be welcomed in all four quadrants. I fail to see how this is a bad mechanic. You shot at their ships. They don't like that, nor should they. They want to shoot you for it and they should. You want an easy way to switch back and forth. I say that is against the idea of having anything you do mean something in this game.
I love that this game takes effort and brainpower and planning. I hope you learn to appreciate that.
I can see how it is going, though, OP. You are not looking for answers or reasons why, you're looking to change the mechanics so it is easier for you. Who needs long-term consequences, eh? Just a slap on the wrist? hmph. I stay here because there is no 'easy mode'. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:25:00 -
[115] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote:
i did read through the plan, it is flawed as it lets players with high trained characters play level one missions for hours wich are extremly boring for them, the faction standing system needs a revamp, it is outdated and does not fit into the game anymore, just keeping it because it always was like that is the worst argument, the game and playstyle did change a lot, therefore that area needs to be adjusted.
Stop shooting at enemy navies, then. Why is this so hard to understand? If you want to be a trader/hauler in all four quadrants, you can't shoot the navies of those four quadrants. If you want to participate in fw or take missions that shoot other navies, you should not be surprised when those same navies want to shoot you. Shooting other navies and having them welcome you into their space are kinda' opposites of each other. It's really your choice. Shoot one or more navy factions on a regular basis or be welcomed in all four quadrants. I fail to see how this is a bad mechanic. You shot at their ships. They don't like that, nor should they. They want to shoot you for it and they should. You want an easy way to switch back and forth. I say that is against the idea of having anything you do mean something in this game. I love that this game takes effort and brainpower and planning. I hope you learn to appreciate that. I can see how it is going, though, OP. You are not looking for answers or reasons why, you're looking to change the mechanics so it is easier for you. Who needs long-term consequences, eh? Just a slap on the wrist? hmph. I stay here because there is no 'easy mode'.
I don't say it needs to be easy the tags4sec is also not easy, i just do not want to grind level 1 missions because i did some faction warfare, thats all... you guys are way to resistant OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8331
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:25:00 -
[116] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:
i did read through the plan, it is flawed as it lets players with high trained characters play level one missions for hours wich are extremly boring for them, the faction standing system needs a revamp, it is outdated and does not fit into the game anymore, just keeping it because it always was like that is the worst argument, the game and playstyle did change a lot, therefore that area needs to be adjusted.
I'm sorry, obviously you don't understand the mechanics or the math regarding how standings work. Maybe this will enlighten you - http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Standings_mechanics
Doesn't matter about the skill level of characters. All characters are confined to level 1 Agents when they drop below -2.00 Faction standing, plain and simple. That's the rules of the game.
'The Plan' is not flawed nor is it outdated. In fact, it's only a few years old and it doesn't have to be followed to the letter. It can be customized to fit each players specific situation.
Anyway, I don't need to defend 'The Plan'. It has proven itself to be very effective which has been confirmed by the playerbase time and time again.
Good luck to you.
DMC |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:28:00 -
[117] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Harry Forever wrote:
i did read through the plan, it is flawed as it lets players with high trained characters play level one missions for hours wich are extremly boring for them, the faction standing system needs a revamp, it is outdated and does not fit into the game anymore, just keeping it because it always was like that is the worst argument, the game and playstyle did change a lot, therefore that area needs to be adjusted.
I'm sorry, obviously you don't understand the mechanics or the math regarding how standings work. Maybe this will enlighten you - http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Standings_mechanicsDoesn't matter about the skill level of characters. All characters are confined to level 1 Agents when they drop below -2.00 Faction standing, plain and simple. That's the rules of the game. 'The Plan' is not flawed nor is it outdated. In fact, it's only a few years old and it doesn't have to be followed to the letter. It can be customized to fit each players specific situation. Anyway, I don't need to defend 'The Plan'. It has proven itself to be very effective which has been confirmed by the playerbase time and time again. Good luck to you. DMC
but thats the point it does not make sense to play level 1 missions for hours if you have a high trained character, people don't want that, they want a different way to fix the standings, maybe a challanging way but not boring level 1 missions for hours
the plan just shows that the faction standing mechanic has issues for a lot of players, therefore it needs to be adjusted, anyway, it will happen if you want it or not OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Baldour Ngarr
British Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:31:00 -
[118] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote: I don't say it needs to be easy the tags4sec is also not easy, i just do not want to grind level 1 missions because i did some faction warfare, thats all...
Alright, then. Don't. Problem solved.
Unless, of course, what you're really saying is "I should be able to do what I like without having to face any consequences." People will be resistant to that argument - and rightly so. |
Zircon Dasher
244
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:34:00 -
[119] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[quote=Zircon Dasher] The difference there is that sec status recover hasn't actually changed: it's still a lot of grinding that needs to be done. It has just been decoupled in time and space (and agency). Faction standing has had a quick out for yonks. Another difference is that grinding sec status back always was (and still is) much easier than faction standing GÇö the latter being more of a long-term decision consequence GÇö which would explain why the quick out was needed, but only available as a one shot.
The principle applies. It applies so hard that it existed long before it was transferred to sec status.
Hmm. I am still not clear on your argument.
Tags for faction standing would still require someone grinding but would enable the time/space/agential decoupling found in tags4sec. Since the amount of time necessary remains static all that really changes is the ability to purchase other people's time. What is wrong with that? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:35:00 -
[120] - Quote
Baldour Ngarr wrote:Harry Forever wrote: I don't say it needs to be easy the tags4sec is also not easy, i just do not want to grind level 1 missions because i did some faction warfare, thats all...
Alright, then. Don't. Problem solved. Unless, of course, what you're really saying is "I should be able to do what I like without having to face any consequences." People will be resistant to that argument - and rightly so.
consequences are ok, but its not ok to have high trained characters play boring hours of level 1 missions again and again to fix standings, there needs to be another mechanic to fix it OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
|
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
92
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:36:00 -
[121] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote: ...i just do not want to grind level 1 missions because i did some faction warfare, thats all...
If you're talking about a one-time thing, then you can go turn in tags. It's a one-time deal, it's what you're asking for.
If you're wanting to switch back and forth...well....no. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14868
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:39:00 -
[122] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:but thats the point it does not make sense to play level 1 missions for hours if you have a high trained character, people don't want that, they want a different way to fix the standings, maybe a challanging way but not boring level 1 missions for hours Who are you to say what people want?
As a GÇ£high trained characterGÇ¥, blitzing those missions is ridiculously quick and easy, and can actually be a fun diversion GÇö you're back in small and nimble ships rather than the lumbering beasts that got you in trouble in the first place.
Moreover, as an older character, you will have had to time to learn that this is the price you pay for burning your bridges with one of the empire factions.
Quote:the plan just shows that the faction standing mechanic has issues for a lot of players Eh, no. It shows that there is no issue since it's such an easy hole to dig yourself out of. So far, you haven't put up much in the way of a convincing argument for why it needs to be adjusted other than GÇ£I don't want to do itGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:42:00 -
[123] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote: ...i just do not want to grind level 1 missions because i did some faction warfare, thats all...
If you're talking about a one-time thing, then you can go turn in tags. It's a one-time deal, it's what you're asking for. If you're wanting to switch back and forth...well....no.
exactly as this game is intended to be played for years, i want to do half a year faction warfare and then do other stuff, and not have to do boring level 1 missions to repair things, if you only play one way sure then its not an issue OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
92
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:45:00 -
[124] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote: ...i just do not want to grind level 1 missions because i did some faction warfare, thats all...
If you're talking about a one-time thing, then you can go turn in tags. It's a one-time deal, it's what you're asking for. If you're wanting to switch back and forth...well....no. exactly as this game is intended to be played for years, i want to do half a year faction warfare and then do other stuff, and not have to do boring level 1 missions to repair things, if you only play one way sure then its not an issue
Exactly. No. You cannot do that. We don't want you to be able to do that easily. If you don't want to "do boring level 1 missions to repair things', then STOP BREAKING THEM. |
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
98
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:46:00 -
[125] - Quote
Op
if you look how the factions corespond to each other, for example, lets say you are bad rep with Gallante, then you can do Minmatar, Sisters faction missions and gain Gallante standing.
If you have poor Caldari standing, do missions for Amarr, or other factions that results in gain for Caldari.
Its a puzzle though, couse gains results in loss fromsomething else, but you dont need to grind lvl1 missions, you could do Sisters lvl4 in Caldari Space, and gain Gallante standing |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14868
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:48:00 -
[126] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:i want to do half a year faction warfare and then do other stuff, and not have to do boring level 1 missions to repair things GǪand as luck would have it, you don't have to.
Beyond that, the intended way to play the game is to live with the consequences of your actions. If you keep messing up your standings, you either have to live with being hunted in parts of space or live with having to grind them up again. Or just choose not to mess them up.
Decision GåÆ Consequence. Don't like the consequence? Make a difference decision.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Baldour Ngarr
British Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:50:00 -
[127] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote: I want to do everything in the game and the game needs to adjust to my skills
That's only true if you wrote the game. Otherwise, it doesn't have to do a damn thing for your benefit. YOU need to learn how to play IT. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:51:00 -
[128] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote: ...i just do not want to grind level 1 missions because i did some faction warfare, thats all...
If you're talking about a one-time thing, then you can go turn in tags. It's a one-time deal, it's what you're asking for. If you're wanting to switch back and forth...well....no. exactly as this game is intended to be played for years, i want to do half a year faction warfare and then do other stuff, and not have to do boring level 1 missions to repair things, if you only play one way sure then its not an issue Exactly. No. You cannot do that. We don't want you to be able to do that easily. If you don't want to "do boring level 1 missions to repair things', then STOP BREAKING THEM.
you don't understand that i want to play all parts of the game intensively and not just one profession, the game needs to adjust to that, because that is what hardcore players are looking for, if you only run one or two missions on the weekend sure you never need what i'm talking about, however my playstyle is different
tags4faction will not harm your playstyle so you should be fine with it, beeing resistant just for the sake of it does not help OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
109
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:51:00 -
[129] - Quote
OP raging about how unfair EVE is, doesn't realize that is what makes EVE....EVE! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14868
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:54:00 -
[130] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:you don't understand that i want to play all parts of the game intensively and not just one profession, the game needs to adjust to that No, it really doesn't, largely because it already allows you to do exactly what you want. You just don't want to play by the rules of the game.
If you want to do something, just go and do it. The game isn't stopping you GÇö you are. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
|
Baldour Ngarr
British Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:54:00 -
[131] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:[quote=Smohq Anmirorz][ you don't understand that i want to play all parts of the game intensively
We understand; we're just laughing at you. EVE doesn't work like that. Your actions have consequences, and you have to live with them. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:54:00 -
[132] - Quote
Fey Ivory wrote:Op
if you look how the factions corespond to each other, for example, lets say you are bad rep with Gallante, then you can do Minmatar, Sisters faction missions and gain Gallante standing.
If you have poor Caldari standing, do missions for Amarr, or other factions that results in gain for Caldari.
Its a puzzle though, couse gains results in loss fromsomething else, but you dont need to grind lvl1 missions, you could do Sisters lvl4 in Caldari Space, and gain Gallante standing
don't think that will work if i start playing 3 month factional warfare, if i do that, i will endup with desasterous standings OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:55:00 -
[133] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:OP raging about how unfair EVE is, doesn't realize that is what makes EVE....EVE!
I'm not raging, I just say that mechanic is outdated and needs to be adjusted OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14868
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:56:00 -
[134] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:I'm not raging, I just say that mechanic is outdated and needs to be adjusted GǪwithout giving a good explanation of how they're outdated or a reason why they should change, other than GÇ£but I don't wanna!GÇ¥ GÇö i.e. raging. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:56:00 -
[135] - Quote
Baldour Ngarr wrote:Harry Forever wrote:[quote=Smohq Anmirorz][ you don't understand that i want to play all parts of the game intensively We understand; we're just laughing at you. EVE doesn't work like that. Your actions have consequences, and you have to live with them.
yea you all reapeat the same line so you are cool... again, consequences are ok please read, its the mechanic to fix it that needs to be changed because it is outdated and boring OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Mimiru Minahiro
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:57:00 -
[136] - Quote
I think that standings tags would be a nice addition if you could smooth out the kinks. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
109
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:08:00 -
[137] - Quote
The mechanic is fine. I have had to grind standings just like others on here have, and I do not hear them raging. For the record, I am in FW and my standing with Caldari has not suffered much. In fact, if I were to drop from FW I could easily go back to running missions for Caldari. The fact of the matter is that you want your "EASY" mode button, because you can't be bothered to grind the standings, and are too supid to know that you should DECLINE missions that have you fighting Faction navies.
And for the personages on here saying you don't need alts, how do you think you are going to move capital ships around with just your main? |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:12:00 -
[138] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:
you don't understand that i want to play all parts of the game intensively and not just one profession, the game needs to adjust to that, because that is what hardcore players are looking for, if you only run one or two missions on the weekend sure you never need what i'm talking about, however my playstyle is different
tags4faction will not harm your playstyle so you should be fine with it, beeing resistant just for the sake of it does not help
I am not resistant for the sake of it.
You are asking to be able to shoot one navy for six months, then be neutral for six months, then shoot them again for six months, then be neutral again for six months...and you want these transitions to be easy.
Well I like it that if you shoot someone's navy for six months, they have a hard time trusting you again. That's the consequence of your actions. That's how it should be. Again, I hope you learn to appreciate this mechanic, because it is working as intended. |
Zircon Dasher
246
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:14:00 -
[139] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:The mechanic is fine. I have had to grind standings just like others on here have, and I do not hear them raging. For the record, I am in FW and my standing with Caldari has not suffered much. In fact, if I were to drop from FW I could easily go back to running missions for Caldari. The fact of the matter is that you want your "EASY" mode button, because you can't be bothered to grind the standings, and are too supid to know that you should DECLINE missions that have you fighting Faction navies.
And for the personages on here saying you don't need alts, how do you think you are going to move capital ships around with just your main?
Argument: I was a mindless bot for a couple weeks in order to grind up from -10..... AND YOU SHOULD BE TOO!
Also: friends
Also: Hrrrrnnnnng more plz Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:14:00 -
[140] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:The mechanic is fine. I have had to grind standings just like others on here have, and I do not hear them raging. For the record, I am in FW and my standing with Caldari has not suffered much. In fact, if I were to drop from FW I could easily go back to running missions for Caldari. The fact of the matter is that you want your "EASY" mode button, because you can't be bothered to grind the standings, and are too supid to know that you should DECLINE missions that have you fighting Faction navies.
And for the personages on here saying you don't need alts, how do you think you are going to move capital ships around with just your main?
the only ones stupid are the ones who call others stupid all the time, control your temper a bit, you are the only one raging here
again i do not want an easy way, i just don't want to do boring level 1 missions for hours, i want to have a better way maybe challanging to fix the standings
because of your comment however i need to block you, pay attention in the future how you talk to people... OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
|
Zircon Dasher
246
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:15:00 -
[141] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote:
you don't understand that i want to play all parts of the game intensively and not just one profession, the game needs to adjust to that, because that is what hardcore players are looking for, if you only run one or two missions on the weekend sure you never need what i'm talking about, however my playstyle is different
tags4faction will not harm your playstyle so you should be fine with it, beeing resistant just for the sake of it does not help
I am not resistant for the sake of it. You are asking to be able to shoot one navy for six months, then be neutral for six months, then shoot them again for six months, then be neutral again for six months...and you want these transitions to be easy. Well I like it that if you shoot someone's navy for six months, they have a hard time trusting you again. That's the consequence of your actions. That's how it should be. Again, I hope you learn to appreciate this mechanic, because it is working as intended.
Honest question: How is this fundamentally different than tags4sec...or are you against that too? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:17:00 -
[142] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote:
you don't understand that i want to play all parts of the game intensively and not just one profession, the game needs to adjust to that, because that is what hardcore players are looking for, if you only run one or two missions on the weekend sure you never need what i'm talking about, however my playstyle is different
tags4faction will not harm your playstyle so you should be fine with it, beeing resistant just for the sake of it does not help
I am not resistant for the sake of it. You are asking to be able to shoot one navy for six months, then be neutral for six months, then shoot them again for six months, then be neutral again for six months...and you want these transitions to be easy. Well I like it that if you shoot someone's navy for six months, they have a hard time trusting you again. That's the consequence of your actions. That's how it should be. Again, I hope you learn to appreciate this mechanic, because it is working as intended.
again, i dont want to have it easy, i just dont want to do boring level 1 missions for hours after some weeks of faction warfare, they can add the tag system to have a challanging way to fix the standings, but not the level 1 missions for hours, thats the point... all cool with your consequences mechanic OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14868
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:20:00 -
[143] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Honest question: How is this fundamentally different than tags4sec...or are you against that too? The difference is that security is supposed to be fairly easy to both lose and regain; faction standings are supposed to be slow and hard to lose and gain. One is short-term; the other is picking a side (almost for life).
There's a reason why the tag-for-faction-standing option is a limited offer, and nothing has really been presented to demonstrate why this desperately needs to changeGǪ
Also, tags-for-sec doesn't actually change how sec status is being repaired GÇö it's still a whole bunch of grinding GÇö whereas the OP wants to skip the parts he doesn't like and take an easy option (no matter how much he claims the opposite, because it's not a matter of difficulty but of resistance). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:28:00 -
[144] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote:
you don't understand that i want to play all parts of the game intensively and not just one profession, the game needs to adjust to that, because that is what hardcore players are looking for, if you only run one or two missions on the weekend sure you never need what i'm talking about, however my playstyle is different
tags4faction will not harm your playstyle so you should be fine with it, beeing resistant just for the sake of it does not help
I am not resistant for the sake of it. You are asking to be able to shoot one navy for six months, then be neutral for six months, then shoot them again for six months, then be neutral again for six months...and you want these transitions to be non-boring. Well I like it that if you shoot someone's navy for six months, they have a hard time trusting you again. I like it that you are bored out of your skull doing level 1's. That's the consequence of your actions. That's how it should be. Again, I hope you learn to appreciate this mechanic, because it is working as intended. again, i dont want to have it easy, i just dont want to do boring level 1 missions for hours after some weeks of faction warfare, they can add the tag system to have a challanging way to fix the standings, but not the level 1 missions for hours, thats the point... all cool with your consequences mechanic
*sigh*...ok, since semantics are getting in the way, I fixed it for you. |
Zircon Dasher
246
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:30:00 -
[145] - Quote
Tippia wrote:The difference is that security is supposed to be fairly easy to both lose and regain; faction standings are supposed to be slow and hard to lose and gain. One is short-term; the other is picking a side (almost for life).
That's a great normative claim and I assume that you can point me to a CCP post saying this?
Even if the (currently) controversial normative premise in your argument is accepted it does not negate the fact that someone has to do the grinding. Just as with tags4sec the increase can merely be decoupled from time/space/agent.
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14868
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:37:00 -
[146] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:That's a great normative claim and I assume that you can point me to a CCP post saying this? I can point to a long history of mechanics that show this to be the case.
Quote:Even if the (currently) controversial normative premise in your argument is accepted it does not negate the fact that someone has to do the grinding.... time/energy requirements do not change. Actually, if we look at tags-for-sec, they do change: it takes a fair bit more grinding for the tags than if you were just going for the sec level. If the OP got his wish, a direct translation would entail doing even more L1 missions. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
109
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:39:00 -
[147] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:The mechanic is fine. I have had to grind standings just like others on here have, and I do not hear them raging. For the record, I am in FW and my standing with Caldari has not suffered much. In fact, if I were to drop from FW I could easily go back to running missions for Caldari. The fact of the matter is that you want your "EASY" mode button, because you can't be bothered to grind the standings, and are too supid to know that you should DECLINE missions that have you fighting Faction navies.
And for the personages on here saying you don't need alts, how do you think you are going to move capital ships around with just your main? Argument: I was a mindless bot for a couple weeks in order to grind up from -10..... AND YOU SHOULD BE TOO! Also: friends Also: Hrrrrnnnnng more plz
LOL, have fun with that. I expect many killmails about you when you start flying capital ships. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:40:00 -
[148] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Harry Forever wrote:
you don't understand that i want to play all parts of the game intensively and not just one profession, the game needs to adjust to that, because that is what hardcore players are looking for, if you only run one or two missions on the weekend sure you never need what i'm talking about, however my playstyle is different
tags4faction will not harm your playstyle so you should be fine with it, beeing resistant just for the sake of it does not help
I am not resistant for the sake of it. You are asking to be able to shoot one navy for six months, then be neutral for six months, then shoot them again for six months, then be neutral again for six months...and you want these transitions to be easy. Well I like it that if you shoot someone's navy for six months, they have a hard time trusting you again. That's the consequence of your actions. That's how it should be. Again, I hope you learn to appreciate this mechanic, because it is working as intended. Honest question: How is this fundamentally different than tags4sec...or are you against that too?
If I shoot other players in null sec, I can get a negative security status and Concord shoots at me. If I shoot NPC navies, I can get a negative standing with them and they'll shoot back at me.
One is about pvp. One is about pve. One is about player interaction. One is about interaction with NPCs. How is it that they are fundamentally the same? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14868
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:46:00 -
[149] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:One is about pvp. One is about pve. One is about player interaction. One is about interaction with NPCs. How is it that they are fundamentally the same? OooohGǪ
The punishment for PvPing your way into low sec status is to have to do a lot of horrible PvE. So maybe the punishment for PvEing your way into low faction standing should be to have to do a lot of horrible PvP.
GǪit fits the OP's requirement of being a challenging, not-L1 way of getting his standings back after all. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Zircon Dasher
246
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:54:00 -
[150] - Quote
Tippia wrote: I can point to a long history of mechanics that show this to be the case.
Darn. I was actually hoping that CCP said this and we would not have to rely upon the naturalistic fallacy or argument from tradition fallacy.
Quote:Actually, if we look at tags-for-sec, they do change: it takes a fair bit more grinding for the tags than if you were just going for the sec level. If the OP got his wish, a direct translation would entail doing even more L1 missions.
Again, I have ignored almost everything the OP has said as I am interested in the topic at a broader scope.
I should have said time/energy does not *necessarily* change... the actual EVE hours necessary for standing grind could increase or decrease depending on implementation. I would be ok if it took longer for someone longer to grind standing if they only hunted for tags (just like tags4sec). Where/number of tags dropped is a level of design and balance that I am not interested in atm. I am looking for principled differences between the two and, so far, I have not seen one.
Not surprising given the OP and this being GD.... but still. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
|
Zircon Dasher
246
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:59:00 -
[151] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote: If I shoot other players in null sec, I can get a negative security status and Concord shoots at me. If I shoot NPC navies, I can get a negative standing with them and they'll shoot back at me.
One is about pvp. One is about pve. One is about player interaction. One is about interaction with NPCs. How is it that they are fundamentally the same?
I assume you meant lowsec....... or did they start giving out sec loss in 0.0 and WH?
EDIT:
Your point is actually a good one. If you think that tags4standing is too valuable to be allowed then what you are saying is that NPC related content matters more than player related content. After all, under the current mechanics the people who are most punished are those who want to interact with players (aggressively or cooperatively) and are being discouraged from doing so because they did something "bad" to an NPC entity years ago. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14868
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 01:00:00 -
[152] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Darn. I was actually hoping that CCP said this and we would not have to rely upon the naturalistic fallacy or argument from tradition fallacy. It's more a case of GÇ£I can't see anyone making a good case for changing the designGÇ¥. Why should gaining faction standing be made any easier than it already is?
Quote:I am looking for principled differences between the two and, so far, I have not seen one. Well, there is the general design principle that one is easy to lose and regain and the other is not. One is deliberately designed to be easy to go between, whereas the other is designed around much stronger sense of permanence. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 01:02:00 -
[153] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Smohq Anmirorz wrote: If I shoot other players in null sec, I can get a negative security status and Concord shoots at me. If I shoot NPC navies, I can get a negative standing with them and they'll shoot back at me.
One is about pvp. One is about pve. One is about player interaction. One is about interaction with NPCs. How is it that they are fundamentally the same?
I assume you meant lowsec....... or did they start giving out sec loss in 0.0 and WH?
oh, yeah...low sec, of course. |
Zircon Dasher
246
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 01:21:00 -
[154] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:Darn. I was actually hoping that CCP said this and we would not have to rely upon the naturalistic fallacy or argument from tradition fallacy. It's more a case of GÇ£I can't see anyone making a good case for changing the designGÇ¥. Why should gaining faction standing be made any easier than it already is? Quote:I am looking for principled differences between the two and, so far, I have not seen one. Well, there is the general design principle that one is easy to lose and regain and the other is not. One is deliberately designed to be easy to go between, whereas the other is designed around much stronger sense of permanence.
If discouraging players from interacting is not a good case...well then there is no discussion.
If tags4standing inherently makes gaining faction standing easier then tags4sec has also been made easier.Since I take it that you deny tags4sec makes gaining sec status easier then your argument is incoherent.
The inferential gap between "the mechanics have always been this way" to "CCP thinks it should be this way" is a bit of a stretch (thus why I asked for a some sort of statement). For all I know (and it appears for all you know) they hate the mechanic but have not had the time or a better option available to them.
anyway: time for beers and no more EVE talk. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Julius Priscus
116
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 01:41:00 -
[155] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:honestly the NPC Faction Standing hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback
Edit: in particular the fast negative impact on the standings when you play missions or factional warfare makes it impossible to enter other faction space with your character if you want to change playstyle or do trading, grinding up endless hours of level 1 mission does not feel like the right solution here
Edit: as the character skill training is so timeconsuming I prefer just playing with my main, therefore I would prefer a better way to repair damaged faction standings
Edit: the discussion brought some good ideas, maybe a tags4faction should be added simular like the tags4sec
-»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
VaL Iscariot
The Concilium Enterprises THE ROYAL NAVY
52
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 02:08:00 -
[156] - Quote
Ignores any differing point of view. Wants to have a conversation.
Doesn't want to pick sides. Wants to do faction warfare.
Runs faction and story line missions. Complains about the faction sec hit.
Blocks those who call him out on his whining. Plays EVE Online.
dirt bag Harry Forever |
Oggat
The Adam's Family
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 03:10:00 -
[157] - Quote
Julius Priscus wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly the NPC Faction Standing hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback
Edit: in particular the fast negative impact on the standings when you play missions or factional warfare makes it impossible to enter other faction space with your character if you want to change playstyle or do trading, grinding up endless hours of level 1 mission does not feel like the right solution here
Edit: as the character skill training is so timeconsuming I prefer just playing with my main, therefore I would prefer a better way to repair damaged faction standings
Edit: the discussion brought some good ideas, maybe a tags4faction should be added simular like the tags4sec
He had a valid debate. The fact that he put it in GD and got trolled in to the ground is just par for EVE forum. He could have put it in F&I and it still would have been trolled by the same people who GD trolled it, he just wouldn't have got as much feedback.
Will we ever see Standings4Sec? Dunno but I'm sure either way it won't really have much to do with our bickering. Knowing that less than 100 Dread Guristas Brass tags are making their way to Jita a month since they put in the new units in low sec, I don't think anyone could afford to raise their faction using tags anyway. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
70
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 08:35:00 -
[158] - Quote
VaL Iscariot wrote:Ignores any differing point of view. Wants to have a conversation.
Doesn't want to pick sides. Wants to do faction warfare.
Runs faction and story line missions. Complains about the faction sec hit.
Blocks those who call him out on his whining. Plays EVE Online.
dirt bag Harry Forever
bla bla no content
insult = ignore
you know the drill, bye OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Skorpynekomimi
518
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 08:55:00 -
[159] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:honestly the NPC Faction Standing hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback
Edit: in particular the fast negative impact on the standings when you play missions or factional warfare makes it impossible to enter other faction space with your character if you want to change playstyle or do trading, grinding up endless hours of level 1 mission does not feel like the right solution here
Edit: as the character skill training is so timeconsuming I prefer just playing with my main, therefore I would prefer a better way to repair damaged faction standings
Edit: the discussion brought some good ideas, maybe a tags4faction should be added simular like the tags4sec
Tags for faction standing?
What, you mean like COSMOS missions and agents? **** |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
70
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 09:00:00 -
[160] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:Harry Forever wrote:honestly the NPC Faction Standing hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback
Edit: in particular the fast negative impact on the standings when you play missions or factional warfare makes it impossible to enter other faction space with your character if you want to change playstyle or do trading, grinding up endless hours of level 1 mission does not feel like the right solution here
Edit: as the character skill training is so timeconsuming I prefer just playing with my main, therefore I would prefer a better way to repair damaged faction standings
Edit: the discussion brought some good ideas, maybe a tags4faction should be added simular like the tags4sec Tags for faction standing? What, you mean like COSMOS missions and agents?
yea but not just one time, it needs to be a system like the new tag4sec system, so you have a better way to repair damaged faction standings OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
|
Darius Brannock
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 11:07:00 -
[161] - Quote
I think that we should leave COSMOS agents out of this discussion. They can raise faction standing above zero. I think it is a valid point to think about a mechanic like "tags for security to zero" that would work in a similar fashion for faction standings where the mechanic could not raise standings above zero and could be used over and over.
Perhaps this could be achieved in creative ways. For example, having special npcs in FW complexes/missions in losec that drop the required tags. Ideas such as this would maybe pull more people into FW while giving others the opportunity to get out and leave the war behind. This kind of mechanic could extend to pirate factions as well where they would take those tags for standing that dropped from the special empire npcs to raise a standing to a pirate faction to zero.
Maybe instead of looking for ways to humiliate the OP or discredit him, we could discuss how such a mechanic could be made interesting and create more content? |
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
27
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 11:34:00 -
[162] - Quote
Am I too late to be blocked too? Just curious... |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
65
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 11:38:00 -
[163] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:I put you on ignore now, read through your first comment and you sure will understand why, you may as well rethink your character name next time, yours has a racist understatement, for that alone you should get banned ps: if you want to understand a thread you need to read the details not only the header
Please explain to me and the other forum readers how my name is as you portray?
reading your posts all i see is a self entitled spoilt brat whining that he can-¦t have everything his own way
Harry Forever wrote:honestly the NPC Faction Standing hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback
The underlined part, you see it, you are complaining about making a choice and not liking the consequences, its a game, they all have rule sets, yes its a sandbox, but a sandBOX has limitations, that-¦s why its not a beach, you personally just don-¦t like the mechanic and the ways to counter it, well you made the informed choice did you not, so HTFU I got probes from the Rookie-á tutorial, they are indestructible, unforgettable and will never need to be replaced, but maybe i will eventually upgrade them to Sisters that are also unforgettable, indestructible and will never need to be replaced. CCP-¦s New Motto: Shiny over Substance |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
80
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 12:23:00 -
[164] - Quote
Dun'Gal wrote:Am I too late to be blocked too? Just curious...
its never too late to use the power of bock OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
80
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 12:26:00 -
[165] - Quote
Darius Brannock wrote:I think that we should leave COSMOS agents out of this discussion. They can raise faction standing above zero. I think it is a valid point to think about a mechanic like "tags for security to zero" that would work in a similar fashion for faction standings where the mechanic could not raise standings above zero and could be used over and over.
Perhaps this could be achieved in creative ways. For example, having special npcs in FW complexes/missions in losec that drop the required tags. Ideas such as this would maybe pull more people into FW while giving others the opportunity to get out and leave the war behind. This kind of mechanic could extend to pirate factions as well where they would take those tags for standing that dropped from the special empire npcs to raise a standing to a pirate faction to zero.
Maybe instead of looking for ways to humiliate the OP or discredit him, we could discuss how such a mechanic could be made interesting and create more content?
yea that would be something cool, if it makes the level 1 grinding go away I'm all for it, encouraging people to play factional warfare to gain the tags even better, i think some do not try it yet especially new players because they are worried of the negative impact, did see a lot of comments about it on the forums OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14876
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 12:48:00 -
[166] - Quote
Darius Brannock wrote:Maybe instead of looking for ways to humiliate the OP or discredit him, we could discuss how such a mechanic could be made interesting and create more content? Maybe instead of the OP ignoring advice and blocking people who disagree with him, he can explain how the existing solutions are inadequate (and no GÇ£I don't wannaGÇ¥ does not make something inadequate) and how making it easier to escape the consequences of one's choices will in any way be better for the game.
Oggat wrote:He had a valid debate. The fact that he put it in GD and got trolled in to the ground is just par for EVE forum. Not really, no. The problem is that he doesn't want to discuss the topic and sees anyone suggesting that maybe he's going about it all wrong as a personal insult. His choice not to engage in actual debate invalidates any debate that there might have been. He wants agreement, not a debate.
The fact that he tried to post an GÇ£agree with me or I'll stomp my feet and poutGÇ¥-thread in General Discussion is what makes people point out that he's a troll, nothing else. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14876
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:03:00 -
[167] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:If discouraging players from interacting is not a good case...well then there is no discussion. It would be a good case. It's just that it's not what's going on here. The game mechanics do nothing of the sort. If anything, they encourage interaction because one of the solutions available to the OP's problem is to rely on other people for certain services.
Quote:If tags4standing inherently makes gaining faction standing easier then tags4sec has also been made easier. No. You're forgetting the underlying activity that generates the (supposed) needs for the two. Tags-for-sec doesn't make sec grinding easier because you still have to grind to make use of it: either you grind rats for tags or you grind ISK for tags. When you start your trip back to Sec -2, you have neither because you've blown up people, which yields neither tags nor ISK.
With tags-for-standing, you don't have to grind to make use of it: either you grind rats for tags (which you probably already picked up as part of the NPC killing that gave you the bad sec standing) or you grind ISK to buy tags (ISK you definitely already earned as part of killing NPCs). The grind that you're supposed to do to get back to neutral standings has already happened as part of the activity that led you to negative standings GÇö it is skipped. The process is made hellalot easier.
Again, the GÇ£punishmentGÇ¥ for PvP is enforced PvE. Tags-for-sec does not change this. To make the same thing work with standings, you'd have to reverse it, or it's simply a mechanic to outright skip that punishment. So the GÇ£punishmentGÇ¥ for PvE would have to be enforced PvP GÇö not tags or ISK or anything else you could pick up in the process of the PvE itself. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2184
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:31:00 -
[168] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Then there would be no consequences for pve activities outside of "I might get ganked for my shinies". yea i know, however it just feels like it hinders me to play the game to its full potential, maybe they should make it possible to pay down the negative standing with ISK, I don't know... mabe also reduce the power of the navy ships so you just have to fight in negative empire space but not get killed immediatley...
Training to fly a Titan takes more than a day, and is therefor hindering me from playing the game to it's full potential. CCP should change this!
Ok, turing off the Sarcasm, EVE is about CHOICES and CONSEQUENCES. Want to go into another faction's space, don't trash yous standings to them in the 1st place, simple as that.
See here "more subs" people, this is what you're want more of, people mentally unsuited to play EVE demanding changes.... |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
80
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:39:00 -
[169] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Then there would be no consequences for pve activities outside of "I might get ganked for my shinies". yea i know, however it just feels like it hinders me to play the game to its full potential, maybe they should make it possible to pay down the negative standing with ISK, I don't know... mabe also reduce the power of the navy ships so you just have to fight in negative empire space but not get killed immediatley... Training to fly a Titan takes more than a day, and is therefor hindering me from playing the game to it's full potential. CCP should change this! Ok, turing off the Sarcasm, EVE is about CHOICES and CONSEQUENCES. Want to go into another faction's space, don't trash yous standings to them in the 1st place, simple as that. See here "more subs" people, this is what you're want more of, people mentally unsuited to play EVE demanding changes....
god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2184
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:44:00 -
[170] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Then there would be no consequences for pve activities outside of "I might get ganked for my shinies". yea i know, however it just feels like it hinders me to play the game to its full potential, maybe they should make it possible to pay down the negative standing with ISK, I don't know... mabe also reduce the power of the navy ships so you just have to fight in negative empire space but not get killed immediatley... Training to fly a Titan takes more than a day, and is therefor hindering me from playing the game to it's full potential. CCP should change this! Ok, turing off the Sarcasm, EVE is about CHOICES and CONSEQUENCES. Want to go into another faction's space, don't trash yous standings to them in the 1st place, simple as that. See here "more subs" people, this is what you're want more of, people mentally unsuited to play EVE demanding changes.... god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change again
That's classic. YOU'RE the one who wants things made easier but it's the rest of us who are wrong and should leave lol. And how could I repeat the same sentence when this is my 1st post in this thread lol?
The truth is that you (and people like you) want CCP to insulate you from your bad in game choices and ignorance. That's just weak minded. |
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Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 13:53:00 -
[171] - Quote
you did not even take the time to read through the thread in detail, its not about making things easy, its the opposite, the level 1 mission grinding is boring to bring up standings, thats why we want another mechanic which is more challanging
you just repeat what others say, nothing new, just standart ignorance without even looking at what was said OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14877
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:37:00 -
[172] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:you did not even take the time to read through the thread in detail, its not about making things easy, its the opposite, the level 1 mission grinding is boring to bring up standings, thats why we want another mechanic which is more challanging You're confusing GÇ£easyGÇ¥ with GÇ£simpleGÇ¥. You can deny it as much as you like, but the simply fact remains: you do want to make it easier; you do want to remove the resistance you've come up against; you do want to skip the penalties for the bad choices you've made.
Quote:you just repeat what others say, nothing new, just standart ignorance without even looking at what was said In other words, you have no idea what he just said. You just keep repeating the same lies over and over again. Why are you so afraid of discussing the topic? Why are you so unable to provide any kind of argument for change? Do you even have any? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Raven Solaris
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
243
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 15:42:00 -
[173] - Quote
Wouldn't this cause issues with people flip-flopping between militias in FW to always be on the winning side? |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3155
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 19:43:00 -
[174] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:but thats the point it does not make sense to play level 1 missions for hours if you have a high trained character
It makes perfect sense, it's a consequence for their choices.
Harry Forever wrote:people don't want that, they want a different way to fix the standings, maybe a challanging way but not boring level 1 missions for hours
If they don't want to do that then there's nothing forcing them to actually do it. If they feel the need to fix their standings then running L1 missions is the consequence of of bad choices they made previously.
Harry Forever wrote:the plan just shows that the faction standing mechanic has issues for a lot of players, therefore it needs to be adjusted, anyway, it will happen if you want it or not
Apparently a lot of players make bad choices that they regret later on. Adjusting it would remove the consequence altogether. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3155
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 19:46:00 -
[175] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change
You haven't managed to explain why our argument is invalid beyond you not wanting consequences for your actions & blocking people who actually provide very valid reasoning against your suggestion. You're suggesting CCP remove the consequences for bad pve choices & we're telling you why that is a bad idea. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
82
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 19:54:00 -
[176] - Quote
[quote=Mallak Azaria]
It makes perfect sense, it's a consequence for their choices.
[quote]
you only know that sentence right? OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
82
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 19:58:00 -
[177] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Harry Forever wrote:god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change You haven't managed to explain why our argument is invalid beyond you not wanting consequences for your actions & blocking people who actually provide very valid reasoning against your suggestion. You're suggesting CCP remove the consequences for bad pve choices & we're telling you why that is a bad idea.
hey dude, just read through the things I mentioned a hundred times already, consequences are fine, there just needs another mechanic to fix it, got that now? can not be that hard, please move along if you don't get it! the bricks of my house are more flexible then you OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2187
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 20:05:00 -
[178] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Harry Forever wrote:god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change You haven't managed to explain why our argument is invalid beyond you not wanting consequences for your actions & blocking people who actually provide very valid reasoning against your suggestion. You're suggesting CCP remove the consequences for bad pve choices & we're telling you why that is a bad idea. hey dude, just read through the things I mentioned a hundred times already, consequences are fine, there just needs another mechanic to fix it, got that now? can not be that hard, please move along if you don't get it!
You're the only one not getting it. It's probably because the idea of responsibility is foreign to you.
There doesn't need to be "another mechanic to deal with it", there should be players smart enough to STOP doing what they are doing BEFORE it gets so bad that the only thing you can do is grind lvl 1 missions. If they aren't smart enogh to stop digging themselves huge standings holes, they SHOULD "suffer" for it.
What you want is an easier way to avoid these necessary painful consequneces, and when people (who are obviously smarter than you when it comes to the game) tell you it's a horribly bad idea, you act as if it's there fault, rather than your fault for not understanding you idea is bad.... All of which reinforces the fact that you have no sense of personal responsiblity. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
82
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 20:07:00 -
[179] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Harry Forever wrote:god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change You haven't managed to explain why our argument is invalid beyond you not wanting consequences for your actions & blocking people who actually provide very valid reasoning against your suggestion. You're suggesting CCP remove the consequences for bad pve choices & we're telling you why that is a bad idea. hey dude, just read through the things I mentioned a hundred times already, consequences are fine, there just needs another mechanic to fix it, got that now? can not be that hard, please move along if you don't get it! You're the only one not getting it. It's probably because the idea of responsibility is foreign to you. There doesn't need to be "another mechanic to deal with it", there should be players smart enough to STOP doing what they are doing BEFORE it gets so bad that the only thing you can do is grind lvl 1 missions. If they aren't smart enogh to stop digging themselves huge standings holes, they SHOULD "suffer" for it. What you want is an easier way to avoid these necessary painful consequneces, and when people (who are obviously smarter than you when it comes to the game) tell you it's a horribly bad idea, you act as if it's there fault, rather than your fault for not understanding you idea is bad.... All of which reinforces the fact that you have no sense of personal responsiblity.
no, i just don't want the game to be as annyoing as you, therefore no level 1 missions for faction standing repair but a more challanging mechanic
i know you want those level 1 missions like you want me to explain the same thing for hours, but there are people who want a better challange, because this one is getting boring -> blocked OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Oggat
The Adam's Family
18
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 20:12:00 -
[180] - Quote
For what it's worth OP, I've been where you are right now.
Simply reply with copy and paste "I'd like to see tags4faction the way tags4Sec works". No matter how they twist it, spin it, troll it bait it, just spam the same one line. I'm sure it will get the thread locked but you won't feel like a dog bone being tossed around a kennel.
It's pretty easy to see who the ISD and Dev alts are here. |
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Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
82
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 20:16:00 -
[181] - Quote
Oggat wrote:For what it's worth OP, I've been where you are right now.
Simply reply with copy and paste "I'd like to see tags4faction the way tags4Sec works". No matter how they twist it, spin it, troll it bait it, just spam the same one line. I'm sure it will get the thread locked but you won't feel like a dog bone being tossed around a kennel.
It's pretty easy to see who the ISD and Dev alts are here.
my tactic was to make them give up :) but you maybe right, thats an unstoppable troll invasion :D OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
82
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 20:21:00 -
[182] - Quote
I'd like to see tags4faction the way tags4Sec works OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
82
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 20:22:00 -
[183] - Quote
I'd like to see tags4faction the way tags4Sec works OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 22:41:00 -
[184] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Then there would be no consequences for pve activities outside of "I might get ganked for my shinies". yea i know, however it just feels like it hinders me to play the game to its full potential, maybe they should make it possible to pay down the negative standing with ISK, I don't know... mabe also reduce the power of the navy ships so you just have to fight in negative empire space but not get killed immediatley... Training to fly a Titan takes more than a day, and is therefor hindering me from playing the game to it's full potential. CCP should change this! Ok, turing off the Sarcasm, EVE is about CHOICES and CONSEQUENCES. Want to go into another faction's space, don't trash yous standings to them in the 1st place, simple as that. See here "more subs" people, this is what you're want more of, people mentally unsuited to play EVE demanding changes.... god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change
There's a reason people keep repeating the same thing. Because that's the part you aren't listening to. Because you don't want to hear it. You are only open to things that might get you what you want. Your arguments are starting to sound childish and petty because you are not discussing anything. You refuse to discuss. You refuse to concede that there may be valid reasons for the way that it is. You refuse to consider anything except "lvl 1 missions are boring, I shouldn't have to do them".
Grow up, dude. Listen to what people are trying to tell you. Stop trying to act like you and you alone know what's best for the game and it's development; I think pretty much everyone looking at this thread can assure you that you don't.
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Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
263
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 23:16:00 -
[185] - Quote
Seems like a good idea. Low sec tags for sec seems to have a lot of people out ratting in belts, of which I approve as I get to kill them.
Tags for faction would seem a natural progression of this mechanic, they (CCP) would have done the hard work already, just make more tags for each faction. The biggest challenge would be what areas they would drop in. Perhaps in low sec as well, a further buff to getting people out of empire and ratting in low sec.
either way
Supported |
Black Dranzer
269
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 23:19:00 -
[186] - Quote
See if tags4sec works out without any major issues. If so, bring on tags4faction. As long as somebody does the work, that's all that really matters. But It should probably only be used to repair damaged standings, rather than to try and boost your current standings to high places. |
Galaxy Chicken
New Order Logistics CODE.
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 04:08:00 -
[187] - Quote
+1 tags4facstanding, my unwillingness to grind has resulted in my bad standings with everyone, I'd accepted that I'm simply not allowed to have jumpclones or Highsec POSes. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
939
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 04:13:00 -
[188] - Quote
The obvious solution to this is to remove missions from highsec. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
Oggat
The Adam's Family
23
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 10:48:00 -
[189] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:The obvious solution to this is to remove missions from highsec.
And you guys could sit in low sec stations waiting for the mission runners that never come. That will be fun, I'm sure. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3163
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 16:46:00 -
[190] - Quote
Oggat wrote:La Nariz wrote:The obvious solution to this is to remove missions from highsec. And you guys could sit in low sec stations waiting for the mission runners that never come. That will be fun, I'm sure.
This post pretty much sums up the whole thread. Mission runners are unwilling to accept risk or consequences for their decisions.
The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
|
Xonus Calimar
CaeIum Incognitum
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 18:22:00 -
[191] - Quote
So people have already mentioned this Data Center mechanic which is a one time "tags4standing". So all that is wanted is a way to repeat this mechanic?
Why does it need to be repeated? What activity are you doing that repeatedly trashes your standings with a faction? (to the extent that they attack you in space) |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
941
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 19:06:00 -
[192] - Quote
Oggat wrote:La Nariz wrote:The obvious solution to this is to remove missions from highsec. And you guys could sit in low sec stations waiting for the mission runners that never come. That will be fun, I'm sure.
Boy howdy are you out of touch with reality. People run missions in lowsec. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
Zircon Dasher
247
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 20:57:00 -
[193] - Quote
Tippia wrote: If anything, they encourage interaction because one of the solutions available to the OP's problem is to rely on other people for certain services.
By the same reasoning low sec status encouraged player interaction because a -10 character needed to rely upon a non -10 character for certain services.
Quote:Tags-for-sec doesn't make sec grinding easier because you still have to grind to make use of it: either you grind rats for tags or you grind ISK for tags. When you start your trip back to Sec -2, you have neither because you've blown up people, which yields neither tags nor ISK.
The disjunct you provide is a false dichotomy and factually false. The negated disjunct is factually false.
Quote:With tags-for-standing, you don't have to grind to make use of it: either you grind rats for tags (which you probably already picked up as part of the NPC killing that gave you the bad sec standing) or you grind ISK to buy tags (ISK you definitely already earned as part of killing NPCs). The grind that you're supposed to do to get back to neutral standings has already happened as part of the activity that led you to negative standings GÇö it is skipped. The process is made hellalot easier.
I was reeaaallly tempted to quote Billy Madison here. Instead, I will say that your argument is extremely unclear and (seems) to rely upon vague language. Can you clarify your statement?
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Oggat
The Adam's Family
24
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 01:35:00 -
[194] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Oggat wrote:La Nariz wrote:The obvious solution to this is to remove missions from highsec. And you guys could sit in low sec stations waiting for the mission runners that never come. That will be fun, I'm sure. Boy howdy are you out of touch with reality. People run missions in lowsec.
And if I had a square ass I'd chit bricks. Yea, we know, that EVE .0001% variable. |
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