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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2208
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 15:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is my understanding of the current game mechanics:
Close all WH's in your system, and a new static WH spawns. Unless you warp to that new static WH, it does NOT spawn a K162.
At this point, you know there are no entrances into your wormhole, providing you with a "safety net".
Essentially, the only "hostiles" you need to worry about are those already in system.
While it is possible that a new incoming WH's will spawn, you know very quickly that new pilots have arrived as it results in a new signature instantly appearing on your scanner.
Is this "safety net" a good thing? |
Grizzly Kreyszig
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 16:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: This is my understanding of the current game mechanics:
Close all WH's in your system, and a new static WH spawns. Unless you warp to that new static WH, it does NOT spawn a K162.
At this point, you know there are no entrances into your wormhole, providing you with a "safety net".
Essentially, the only "hostiles" you need to worry about are those already in system.
While it is possible that a new incoming WH's will spawn, you know very quickly that new pilots have arrived as it results in a new signature instantly appearing on your scanner.
Is this "safety net" a good thing?
It's a good thing as long as you don't think you're safe. |
CeNSeR
Jazz Associates Azgoths of Kria
24
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Posted - 2013.06.17 16:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Your understanding of wormhole spawn mechanics and how to shut your system down is pretty much spot on.
Providing yourself with a "safety net" is up for debate really and dependent on the class of wormhole you reside in.
If you are bearing in a class 1-3 wormhole the sleepers do not scram but if you are doing pve inside a C4-C6 then they do. Also the fact carriers/dreads are used inside them which could be in triage/siege when a wormhole opens up to them makes things still very risky even though you have closed off all exits and entrances.
So no shutting down your system does not make you totally immune to attack and that's exactly how it should be in my eyes. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2208
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 16:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Grizzly Kreyszig wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: This is my understanding of the current game mechanics:
Close all WH's in your system, and a new static WH spawns. Unless you warp to that new static WH, it does NOT spawn a K162.
At this point, you know there are no entrances into your wormhole, providing you with a "safety net".
Essentially, the only "hostiles" you need to worry about are those already in system.
While it is possible that a new incoming WH's will spawn, you know very quickly that new pilots have arrived as it results in a new signature instantly appearing on your scanner.
Is this "safety net" a good thing?
It's a good thing as long as you don't think you're safe.
I suppose even if the k162 did instantly spawn with the static, any competent alliance would simply monitor that hole, essentially requiring an "extra role" that really is trivial in nature. At the same time, if that new hole lead somewhere blatantly hostile, it would up the ante to running sites. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1450
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 16:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Is this "safety net" a good thing?
I would say it's largely irrelevant whether it is good or bad. The mechanic is identical to every other cosmic entity. No entity "exists" until warped to. Including anoms, ore sites etc. Which is why in effect they all last indefinitely until someone warps to them and "activates" the site, at which point the despawn timer starts counting down.
So essentially to change it for wormholes would likely require a rewrite of code that is used for cosmic sites all over new eden. I'd suspect we will get POS overhauls before they did anything like this.
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Grizzly Kreyszig
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
6
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Posted - 2013.06.17 16:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Grizzly Kreyszig wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: This is my understanding of the current game mechanics:
Close all WH's in your system, and a new static WH spawns. Unless you warp to that new static WH, it does NOT spawn a K162.
At this point, you know there are no entrances into your wormhole, providing you with a "safety net".
Essentially, the only "hostiles" you need to worry about are those already in system.
While it is possible that a new incoming WH's will spawn, you know very quickly that new pilots have arrived as it results in a new signature instantly appearing on your scanner.
Is this "safety net" a good thing?
It's a good thing as long as you don't think you're safe. I suppose even if the k162 did instantly spawn with the static, any competent alliance would simply monitor that hole, essentially requiring an "extra role" that really is trivial in nature. At the same time, if that new hole lead somewhere blatantly hostile, it would up the ante to running sites.
The problem isn't so much the static. It's rather the fact that there are w-space groups out there, that love to log off ganking fleets in other people home systems. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2210
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 16:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Grizzly Kreyszig wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Grizzly Kreyszig wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: This is my understanding of the current game mechanics:
Close all WH's in your system, and a new static WH spawns. Unless you warp to that new static WH, it does NOT spawn a K162.
At this point, you know there are no entrances into your wormhole, providing you with a "safety net".
Essentially, the only "hostiles" you need to worry about are those already in system.
While it is possible that a new incoming WH's will spawn, you know very quickly that new pilots have arrived as it results in a new signature instantly appearing on your scanner.
Is this "safety net" a good thing?
It's a good thing as long as you don't think you're safe. I suppose even if the k162 did instantly spawn with the static, any competent alliance would simply monitor that hole, essentially requiring an "extra role" that really is trivial in nature. At the same time, if that new hole lead somewhere blatantly hostile, it would up the ante to running sites. The problem isn't so much the static. It's rather the fact that there are w-space groups out there, that love to log off ganking fleets in other people home systems.
Is that the most common method to hunt in WH's? |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
305
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 17:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
I know there are k162 opening in wspace without the intervention of players or ccp. |
Scoto Timta
Heaven's End League of Infamy
19
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 17:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:I know there are k162 opening in wspace without the intervention of players or ccp. http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2010/05/03/the-danger-when-you-dont-know/ Refer to paragraph 2. |
Robert Harrison
Aperture Harmonics K162
6
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Posted - 2013.06.17 17:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Is that the most common method to hunt in WH's?
Common? Not really. But if you find a particularly active system, that runs sites like clockwork, then it's one of the more sure fire ways to get kills.
It's probably more common for a group to roll their static and scan out massive chains to find kills. |
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Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1347
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 00:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: While it is possible that a new incoming WH's will spawn, you know very quickly that new pilots have arrived as it results in a new signature instantly appearing on your scanner.
From what I've seen, this can be delayed. Don't count on Odyssey doing your work for you, and put out a probe or two that can cover your whole system, and periodically check for new signatures. http://www.wormholes.info |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
2011
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 02:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:I know there are k162 opening in wspace without the intervention of players or ccp. i doubt it. people have been making this claim since odyssey but im not convinced. i was scanning a lot over this weekend and still ran across unspawned WHs. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
489
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 10:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:i was scanning a lot over this weekend and still ran across unspawned WHs.
But the claim is not that ALL wormholes now spawn their k162 by themselves. Only that SOME may do so, randomly triggered. So you'd still find plenty of fresh wormholes that were only just activated by you.
This should be very easy to do if CCP wanted... they'd just need to write a simple procedure that picks a certain number or percentage of the currently non-activated wormholes in the game and activates them. A dev could probably code this in like one hour. . |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
143
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 19:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Jack Miton wrote:i was scanning a lot over this weekend and still ran across unspawned WHs. But the claim is not that ALL wormholes now spawn their k162 by themselves. Only that SOME may do so, randomly triggered. So you'd still find plenty of fresh wormholes that were only just activated by you. This should be very easy to do if CCP wanted... they'd just need to write a simple procedure that picks a certain number or percentage of the currently non-activated wormholes in the game and activates them. A dev could probably code this in like one hour. There's not much evidence to support the claim, though. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
491
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 09:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well, if this change was not made, it SHOULD be made. CCP, go for it if you haven't done it already! . |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1357
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 11:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:Jack Miton wrote:i was scanning a lot over this weekend and still ran across unspawned WHs. But the claim is not that ALL wormholes now spawn their k162 by themselves. Only that SOME may do so, randomly triggered. So you'd still find plenty of fresh wormholes that were only just activated by you. This should be very easy to do if CCP wanted... they'd just need to write a simple procedure that picks a certain number or percentage of the currently non-activated wormholes in the game and activates them. A dev could probably code this in like one hour. There's not much evidence to support the claim, though.
You can't prove the devil DIDN'T put the dinosaur fossils in the ground! http://www.wormholes.info |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
146
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 18:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Well, if this change was not made, it SHOULD be made. CCP, go for it if you haven't done it already! Congratulations, you've just killed any PvE activities in wormholes, and consequently, any people who like to hunt PvEers will have no more targets.
Good job! |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
276
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 18:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:Well, if this change was not made, it SHOULD be made. CCP, go for it if you haven't done it already! Congratulations, you've just killed any PvE activities in wormholes, and consequently, any people who like to hunt PvEers will have no more targets. Good job!
I would say the opposite, its relatively easy to lock down a static even if it does instantly spawn a k162 - making it critical will massively reduce the chance of getting jumped tho not eliminate it, it will however give site runners a slightly longer heads up as if your rolling your static to try and find someone mid site the k162 will spawn before you've even started your probe cycle let alone warped to the wh sig. |
Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
54
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 10:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
I've previously posted how much I loathe the fact that people now have even greater early warning of when a K162 opens to them, as it gives them a chance to hide in their towers much sooner than they previously would.
I feel quite ambivalent towards this proposal. On one hand I really like the idea of never being able to completely disconnect a system, but on the other hand it increases the early warning that victims get even more.
The entities that hunt by chain collapsing are going to have an even harder time finding targets, but the small gangs that simply roam are going to find more people too. How can we keep chain collapsing to find site runners viable, and at the same time prevent systems ever being disconnected? Connect the K162 when the static spawns, and remove wormholes from the discovery scanner. Revert to them only being discoverable with probes.
Derath Ellecon wrote:would likely require a rewrite of code that is used for cosmic sites all over new eden. I'd suspect we will get POS overhauls before they did anything like this.
Nah, wormhole spawning is special, since it chains the death of one signature with the spawn of a new one. Just hijack that process and throw a pretend warp at the new sig when its spawned.
Grizzly Kreyszig wrote:The problem isn't so much the static. It's rather the fact that there are w-space groups out there, that love to log off ganking fleets in other people home systems.
We sure do. Now stop trying to be safe in wormholes.
Kalel Nimrott wrote:I know there are k162 opening in wspace without the intervention of players or ccp.
No you don't
Nathan Jameson wrote:From what I've seen, this can be delayed. Don't count on Odyssey doing your work for you, and put out a probe or two that can cover your whole system, and periodically check for new signatures.
Its triggered by several things. The discovery scanner is one. Scanning with probes is another. But also when a signature despawns it triggers an update, which is why when you collapse your static the new signature appears instantly as the old one despawns.
I'll leave you with a tidbit of information. It wasn't always known that the K162 was only spawned when warp was initiated to a new wormhole, back in 2009 there was quite a lot of debate on the subject. So how was it discovered that the K162 only spawns when a wormhole is warped to for the first time? Well, once upon a time, it was possible for a wormhole to connect to itself, and a bunch of brave souls living in a C6 blackhole with a C6 static ended up connecting to themselves, but the signature for the incoming wormhole was not present until the static was warped to. The end. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
276
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 16:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nix Anteris wrote:I Nah, wormhole spawning is special, since it chains the death of one signature with the spawn of a new one. Just hijack that process and throw a pretend warp at the new sig when its spawned.
This is how quite a lot of cosmic sigs work - they sit around until someone initiates warp to them at which point it starts a despawn timer, after which point they respawn regionally. Wormholes just special cased that with shorter timers and in the case of statics repawn in the same system rather than a random regional system.
I suspect within the game logic they are mostly very similiar to any other cosmic anom with the wormhole visual there like the structures, gas clouds, etc. are in some sites it would probably be trivial for CCP for instance to add NPC spawn waves and so on. |
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
492
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 16:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:Well, if this change was not made, it SHOULD be made. CCP, go for it if you haven't done it already! Congratulations, you've just killed any PvE activities in wormholes
I'm afraid you're overestimating my power, but thank you anyway
Players as well as Devs have said many times that w-space needs more mystery, because all of its secrets have been revealed. Adding uncertainty to whether a new wormhole was spawned by another player or by a randomized procedure adds exactly this kind of mystery that we need.
. |
Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
55
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 19:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Adding uncertainty to whether a new wormhole was spawned by another player or by a randomized procedure adds exactly this kind of mystery that we need.
or by.... SLEEPER CAPITALS WITH WORMHOLE STABILISERS AND ANTI-CLOAK PULSES! |
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