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Fret Thiesant
The Scope Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2013.09.02 05:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
Johnson 1044 wrote:Apologies if this is not the best place for this.
Ironically, the Odyssey update, which is about exploration, has ruined exploration IMO. For me, exploration was fun because it was a good solo activity with appropriate risk and reward mechanics. Summary of what I don't like:
1. Auto listing sigs when you enter a system takes the mystery out of what may or may not be hidden there. I believe clicking the system scan button to list the sigs was better. Also, the auto listing feature continues to be buggy, requiring me to check and uncheck "show anomalies" to get the list to appear properly.
2. There isn't a lot you can excel at in eve as a solo player and exploration was certainly a good solo activity. What was the point in making it a two pilot activity with the loot explosion? The loot explosion is just more time wasted after already waiting to finish the mini game (I don't mind the mini game though better than waiting to kill the rats guarding the can IMO).
3. At first I thought the unguarded sites would be great because I could ninja all the null sec sites in a covops ship. However, now that we see everyone has the same idea, it's clear that exploration in covops makes the whole thing too easy. It's turned from a risk/reward scenario to a scramble to see who can clear all the systems first. Taking a combat-worthy ship into low sec to clear sites was where all the risk was in lowsec exploration and now that's just a scramble too.
4. Lowsec site loot nerfed? I've gotten nothing but junk from lowsec sites since Odyssey. Exploration was the only enticing thing about low sec but now it's not even worth it. What has happened here? Have the sites been nerfed all around or are there more sites now, each having less loot? Whatever the case they aren't even worth running now (or have I been unlucky?).
Sadly Odyssey has made exploration worse and not better. I'm hoping there will be an overhaul and we can see appropriate risk/reward levels again.
1. Good addition that was just tedious for no reason.
2. Kinda agree but I think that has more to do with probing being easier.
3. This I actually like. We just differ on this point.
4. No more people doing it = market prices driven down. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
177
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Posted - 2013.09.03 11:53:00 -
[62] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:You guys OBVIOUSLY haven't read the Dev blogs.... which kinda invalidates your opinions. Or you would know that 1.1 is releasing an update on the probe system. .... Is that sarcasm? It must be. Minor Probing fixes are not improvements to Exploration, much less actual content. exactly
they made the probes easier to use (easier to move, preset formation wich will now include custom ones), and imao, this was necessary and is very welcome.
but what is wrong:
1- sensor overlay 2- the sigs have now bigger sig making a 2 day old able to scan them 3- the content of the sigs is ridiculous 4- the minigame is meh at best 5- the loot spew is just plain punishment for succeeding a hack.
they could have remove the whole scanning thing and made those LVL1 Mission it would have been the same.....
also, the DED 4/10 strategic cruiser limitation is plain ridiculous, they put it because it was too easy to run with strats? then WHY command ships are still able to run them? they tank the same, and do at worst Twice a strat DPS.....
you want those to be a bit of challenge? remove BC from running them, a navy cruiser can already run them easy |
Clara Xavier
Orion's Fist
3
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:49:00 -
[63] - Quote
I enjoy the NPC change since it allowed me to bring a ship fit and rigged for exploration without needing an alt to tank and clear the site where NPC damage and ISK is relatively low and definitely not the focus or objective.
The mini game is OK and often very beatable, the problem I have is the can scatter. It is new and kind of cool but at the end of the day why would I bring more than one person just to scoop loot I used to get solo? It is also very similar to the problem with PI when that was released, it's just to much clicking and far to annoying for a lot of people to bother with.
When the mini-game "fun" wears off I predict we will see a significant drop in the number of people dealing with the click fest when it is far less hassle to earn ISK doing something else.
In short, go back to the single can method. Once the mini-game is cracked let the loot be scooped in one go from the container. |
Erad Stomper
Expotato Scriptor La Division Bleue
12
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Posted - 2013.09.03 19:07:00 -
[64] - Quote
exploration is no longer a profitable activity, it's only there if u need to waste some time with a friend looting worthless junk, Odyssey killed exploration like the drone region change killed the drone region :)
Before Odyssey i was able to make some B per month with exploration, sometimes looting good stuff like a domination CT bpc and other stuff.
Since Odyssey i didnt made even 100m from exploration, i rarely scan now, when i do it's more the npc site than the r or d site and with a friend i can do thing that pay much better than exploration.
Exploration in all corner of eve, HS, LS, 0.0 and WH is now almost worthless, i dont care much because i know soon the market will adapt, since less and less people will run those site because it's not worth it the module price will increase then making it profitable, but until then, not worth the time or effort. |
Janna Sway
42
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Posted - 2013.09.04 10:37:00 -
[65] - Quote
One does not need much SP investment for the exploration profession.
Pre-Odyssey I could not even scan down a simple data or relic site in highsec because of poor probing skills and the limited amount of probes that I could use. I can remember how I tried to circumvent this problem by probing for salvager drones or other ships in space. I did not skill exploration related skills since then, however, with Odyssey I can scan down every single site, be it in nullsec or WH space. I have CovOps III, Astrometrics III, Archaelogy II, Hacking II and do not bother training more. CovOps and Astrometrics are even half done to IV. I just stopped the skilling half way because I did not see any need anymore to increase my scanning strength.
The minigame is pretty easy too. Go around the edges in order to get a max. surface area and the system core is usually on the other side of where you start, at the edge. Of course I fail some hacks, but I do not care, for a new site will spawn pretty soon anyway. Hacks with red system cores are difficult for my current state of skills. I need T2 modules to go through those hacks more ore less smoothly, but since the loot is not worth that much anyway, I do not really care trying my luck and failing.
Overall, the scanning skills are pretty expensive for that what they offer. Rangefinding is (x8), other scanning support skills are (x5), and the scanning core skills are (x3). Too expensive skilling for that little bit of extra ISK. It is plainly more efficient to blow the cans up and visit the next site, for new sites will respawn in no time. The training time multipliers were justified back then before Odyssey, when one earned properly, but had to skill extensively, not only skilling for the scanning, but also for the proper exploration ship, like a T2 or T3 cruiser.
Nowadays, advanced skilling is almost exclusively required for combat probing in nullsec or WH systems, where every second counts.
I started playing pre-Odyssey and I always wanted to be an explorer. Wanted to have a Pilgrim and go exploring. I even loved the looks of the Pilgrim because it looks like the Star Trek Voyager ship and I was so excited about becoming an explorer. That's why I subscribed to the game. It felt so challenging and exciting and I had a long-term goal I could work on. I can remember how excited I was just because of that, and tha's why I even subscibed. Well, after Odyssey that dream died and I am seeking other activities. I am pretty disappointed and sad because of that and deeply envy all those who were TRUE explorers back then before Odyssey for all their experiences that they could make.
Post-Odyssey exploration is pretty inefficient ISK grinding for low-SP players, an entry profession like Venture-mining. If you just want ISK and you do not have a lot of SP, well then try Factional Warfare, but please, do not waste your time so much with exploration, even in nullsec, except you are bored and you have time to waste.
Don't wanna offend anybody, but that's how I see the situation currently. |
May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
31
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Posted - 2013.09.04 11:14:00 -
[66] - Quote
I do agree that exploration is now way too easy, in many aspects. It is no more required to have high skill nor a good ship, theres's so much automated and nerfed stuff now that the mechanics passed from "carreer" to "worthless, part time".
I think that scanner array modules should be lowered and signatures maybe more difficult to scan overall. |
TheBlueMonkey
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
517
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Posted - 2013.09.04 11:28:00 -
[67] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:Scanning sites is now also so easy, that i'm pretty sure monkey would have no problems too.
Confirming that scanning is so easy even I can do it.
That said, I miss the old old old days of scanning when it was a real pita. You have different probes for each scan range and different probes for each site type.
What it meant was you'd go out looking for specific types of sites and couldn't scan down the others. The process was more complicated and the skills were higher too as a result the things that you found were worth more. |
Damon Ryker Pane
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.09.10 17:24:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ok..I'm a little confused.
I discovered Eve Online about a week ago and was having a blast exploring. I decided that would be the best profession for me because I like to, well, explore and discover things. So the patch 1.1 comes out and suddenly I can only find wormholes in most hi-sec systems. No problem, I'm new and must need some training. So I begin my scanner training in earnest. But I'm still really only finding wormholes and combat sites.
So, you folks are telling me that the problem is not a lack of scanning skills, but just the opposite?
Scanning is so easy now that people are clearing out the sites before I can even have a chance to scan for them? Is that true?
If not then "whew, crisis averted", I will keep training and learning.
If this is the case, then WTF? Me and 4 million other people just quit WoW because it was ruined by making it "easier" for new players. I hope we aren't seeing the beginning of this for Eve.
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Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
528
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Posted - 2013.09.10 19:08:00 -
[69] - Quote
Johnson 1044 wrote:Ironically, the Odyssey update, which is about exploration, has ruined exploration IMO. I could have told you this when their promotional materials for Odyssey use a Nemesis for exploration...
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2013.09.11 08:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
During the beta on SiSi many stood up and spoke out against the imminent changes, only to be ridiculed in return for 'not being open-minded enough to welcome such improvements'.
Haven't bothered w/ exploration since about a week after Oddyssey came out. The 'exploration = mission running' analogy is right to the point; a boring grind through dozens of sites only to get crap loot, with prices in free-fall because everyone and their dog was doing it. Improvements my arse.
The fact that we haven't heard anything from CCP concerning future updates to exploration says a lot.
And I still can't shut off the system scan permanently. |
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
372
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Posted - 2013.09.11 22:20:00 -
[71] - Quote
Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman wrote:During the beta on SiSi many stood up and spoke out against the imminent changes, only to be ridiculed in return for 'not being open-minded enough to welcome such improvements'.
Haven't bothered w/ exploration since about a week after Oddyssey came out. The 'exploration = mission running' analogy is right to the point; a boring grind through dozens of sites only to get crap loot, with prices in free-fall because everyone and their dog was doing it. Improvements my arse.
The fact that we haven't heard anything from CCP concerning future updates to exploration says a lot.
And I still can't shut off the system scan permanently.
Agreed, since the debacle that was incarna we haven't had one worthwhile expansion, we've had ui improvement and ship balancing passed of as expansions. Meanwhile CCP are developing other games and it shows in their core game. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Johnson 1044
Johnson Organic Produce
50
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Posted - 2013.09.27 02:09:00 -
[72] - Quote
Well there goes my hope that the new expansion was simply going to be the rollback of Odyssey |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
404
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:27:00 -
[73] - Quote
The fundamental flaw with Odyssey is that the game designers forgot that explorers tend to be solitary folk, not interested in gang pvp or teaming up for missions. They usually have covert ops because they are not interested in having someone scout for them, hence the whole idea of teaming up with buddies to scan down some sites and reap the rewards of hacking is way of the mark.
This is why the loot spill sucks, making it suck doesn't encourage explorers to suddenly stop being solitary, it just makes them feel that the rewards are not worth sharing as you'll all come home with like half a million isks worth of random **** in the hold. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Johnson 1044
Johnson Organic Produce
50
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Posted - 2013.10.20 17:02:00 -
[74] - Quote
Heh well it looks like we are getting a form of the old sites back in the form of "new content" with the upcoming "ghost sites". Much smoother than admitting they made a mistake and backtracking. Now they get to fix the mess and call it bonus content. At least we are getting some real exploration back. |
Batelle
RisingSuns
217
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Posted - 2013.10.20 18:25:00 -
[75] - Quote
Not supported.
Scanning has gotten less stupid - This is good. My ship has lots of computers, why shouldn't it have probe formations? Of course it should remember previous scan results instead of forgetting them every time i hit the scan button.
salvagers not needed for relic sites - good
NPCs removed from k-space data/relic, this is good IMO, some of the nullsec NPCs were pretty rough and going around in a combat ship with no scanning bonus just to do profession sites was ridiculous.
Hacking minigame - I realize some people don't like it, I think its sufficiently quick and fun to be an acceptable time sink. Its not too hard to make explo in non-bonused ships unreasonable either, while still giving an advantage to bonused ships.
Loot pinata scattering - only point on which I agree, this is absolutely god-awful gameplay.
Slight increase in visibility of complex runners by showing people the rough location of cosmic sigs without requiring probes - this is good.
"The mystery is gone" - hahaha oh wow
People crying about how they miss the terrible interface and other nonsense will never cease to entertain me. Fighting is Magic |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
363
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Posted - 2013.10.20 19:13:00 -
[76] - Quote
Mr VonBraun wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:I second that all ... exploration used to be somehow elite proffesion (compared to mining roid or shooting rats i'm sure about it). Now every scrub can get into every mag/radar site in low/null. It was profitable but with risk involved (you need decent ship to deal with low/null sec rats). Now you don't even need covops as it was said ... All you need is T1 exploration frigate - YES REALLY. That may come with cost of 4kk-5kk isk with empty head (aka no implants) - there is no risk involved at all. Scanning sites is now also so easy, that i'm pretty sure monkey would have no problems too. Value of high astrometrics trainings is also downgraded with expansion.
Let's be honest i could make more money from exploration before those changes, it was more exciting too as loot you was finding was more valuable (pointing especially at decryptors). Now it's just dumb grind like roid mining, not exciting, not so profitable, not easily soloable (thanks to floating cans).
You won't see my tears - i can make money somewhere else (be it FW or others activities). Point is i did like exploration ... i did like it was somehow elite activity - not most profitable (wh dreads sure earn more, or FW at T3 or T4 from missions etc). But was profitable enough and entertaining. I did give up on this. I don't even want to scan system with few imicuses, herons and other stuff in every low sec system with bazzilions of probes on dscan.
In the end i won't threat to cancel my subscription - game is still good in many other aspects - but exploration is shiet now for me. I agree. I took my trusty scanning and travel fitted tengu out into nullsec yesterday to check out data/relic sites in nullsec. In almost every system I visited in Syndicate and Outer Ring, the systems had been stripped bare of all but wormholes and the combat sites that nobody wants to do, because they are all flying covert ops. Odyssey has taken what was a fun and intruiging aspect of eve and turned it into something worthless,and worse than that...BORING.
Same thing with Great Wildlands, nothing out there.
Karak Bol wrote:Disagree, Explo is more fun now then before. Leave as it is.
Scrap the can spew, it utterly SUCKS. There is no need for a secondary mini-game to impede my collection of loot which I alreayd earned by beating a minigame which, in nullsec, can be quite difficult. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
465
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:59:00 -
[77] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Not supported.
Scanning has gotten less stupid - This is good. My ship has lots of computers, why shouldn't it have probe formations? Of course it should remember previous scan results instead of forgetting them every time i hit the scan button.
salvagers not needed for relic sites - good
NPCs removed from k-space data/relic, this is good IMO, some of the nullsec NPCs were pretty rough and going around in a combat ship with no scanning bonus just to do profession sites was ridiculous.
Hacking minigame - I realize some people don't like it, I think its sufficiently quick and fun to be an acceptable time sink. Its not too hard to make explo in non-bonused ships unreasonable either, while still giving an advantage to bonused ships.
Loot pinata scattering - only point on which I agree, this is absolutely god-awful gameplay.
Slight increase in visibility of complex runners by showing people the rough location of cosmic sigs without requiring probes - this is good.
"The mystery is gone" - hahaha oh wow
People crying about how they miss the terrible interface and other nonsense will never cease to entertain me.
Love the way that you think null sec sites shouldn't be tough... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Randy Wray
Nova Ardour Dixie Normus.
87
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Posted - 2013.10.20 21:37:00 -
[78] - Quote
Awesome thread, I've been looking for one like it and it's a good feeling to finally see that people are sharing my feelings about oddysey.
It's undeniable that the exploration changes in oddysey were just casualization. Minding how little content was actually added in the "expansion" in retrospect I'm actually surprised we didn't have another jita riot. I guess the big sovblocks were too busy with renter recuitment to make up for lost moon isk and going oooh over the nullsec mineral rebalance - no content was added.
The only actual content added was the hacking minigame, navy battlecruisers and some new jumping and undocking animations. Calling this an expansion is a freaking scam. Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @-áhttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec
twitch.tv/randywray |
Krios42
Unified Combatants Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2013.10.20 22:03:00 -
[79] - Quote
I find this is true. Before odyssey I really enjoyed exploration, it felt like I was venturing into the unknown, and discovoring new things in the game. Now it's just so arcade like. Auto listed sigs, easy scanning, strange minigame, and the little poof of loot.
Fit this please CCP! |
La'Krul
Krul Corp
58
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Posted - 2013.10.20 23:35:00 -
[80] - Quote
Exploration used to be the one thing i still really enjoyed about Eve, Odyssey killed it. |
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Cage Man
282
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Posted - 2013.10.21 01:07:00 -
[81] - Quote
My only gripe with the new exploration is the "exploded" cans not showing in the overview. I play on a notebook with the graphics turned down so don't even clearly see half of them, so don't even bother with them at all. The thick plottens... CCP, When can my crane get its black paint job back?? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
467
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Posted - 2013.10.21 01:42:00 -
[82] - Quote
Krios42 wrote:I find this is true. Before odyssey I really enjoyed exploration, it felt like I was venturing into the unknown, and discovoring new things in the game. Now it's just so arcade like. Auto listed sigs, easy scanning, strange minigame, and the little poof of loot.
Fix this please CCP! Sorry, how was 'drop a DSP, hit scan, consult DSP table vs sig ratio's to determine exactly what each sig was before you bothered to scan it down properly' mysterious? All the old exploration content was 100% documented, mapped out, macro'ed & botted. None of the old content was mysterious in the slightest. |
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