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xiline anahata
Perkone Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2013.06.20 13:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings,
The fact that this happened to me is irrelevant since we're trying to keep an objective perspective on this matter. Being in a 10man corp and getting randomly wardec'd by bigger(corps or alliances, on average much larger than a small new player corp that doesnt really know ppl) is ok as far as i'm concerned ethically outside hisec space. Now, ofc, why would you move with a bunch of newbies to low/null ? well you don't. You stay in hi. However, the game mechanics allow for random entities to wardec in hisec basically giving 3 options:
- miraculously develop pvp skills overnight (25hrs) which considering low-skills and low-isk of beginners isn't really an option
- leaving player corp for npc newbie corps
- developing remarcable hide-n-seek skills which means you either run away/doc/logout (for how long?) or move to another empire's space where the area is a bit clearer.
I know there are a lot of old pvp players that dont really care, and again, ethically why should they ? they're probably in nullsec anyway. concerning the new players however, getting shot at and podkilled in hisec while mining in a venture doesn't sound so encouraging.
now from a realistic point of view: Concord governs hisec security protocols, yes, so they mediate the wars between corps. But i fail to see the logic behind being able to just wardec away (in a policed environment) anyone without them being able to do anything about it. Seriously it's like going to the police telling them you're about to beat the crap out of someone and they give you a 24hrs standby before they give the go.
In my opinion the wardecs in hisec should be mutual as in declaration, acknowledgement and confirmation. In case of denying to accept a wardec you should only know you got wartargets that will shoot u as soon as you leave hisec. (considering not everybody in lowsec blasts away) how can this make a new player space friendlier ? and how can this make griefers happy ? not sure that both terms can be met, however this is a serious issue as the numbers of older chars increases and their skillpoints grow, and they prefer to pray on newbies.
Ultimately financially speaking i believe it's up to ccp to calculate how much griefers generate in monthly subs vs new players that just want to join a player corp since mostly it all goes down to money when it comes to profit. doesn't it ? |
Caerfinon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
72
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Posted - 2013.06.20 14:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
"The strong do as they can and the weak suffer what they must". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melian_dialogue
Welcome to EVE. If you form a corporation in EVE you automatically consent to being a War Target. If you do not want the be a War Target, then don't form a corporation.
You can fight, you can hide, you can pay someone to fight for you, you can pay ransom, you can disband and form a new corporation not in a war, you can just disband and not worry about the war.
But you formed a Corporation knowing that you could be the targets of a War.
Deal.
Cheers C. |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
404
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Posted - 2013.06.20 15:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Na, just have to HTFU or disband corp and stick in NPC corps until you learn to defend yourselves.
The good news is that high sec griefers are some of the worst pvper's in the game. So you have that going for you.
http://thewaysofthemew.blogspot.com We are recruiting - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1823364&#post1823364 |
Dan Carter Murray
416
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Posted - 2013.06.20 15:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
if there are 10 of you just hop in wtfcheap talwars and try to alpha your foes from 60km and watch them call you a ****** in local. if you die you lost almost 0 isk and probably had a good luls. or make more alts and dual box so you can get 20 talwars. or make even more alts and use rookie ships to perma jam your foes while the talwars do the dirty work. IF YOU'RE NOT IN AMARR MILITIA THEN GET ******
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Praxis Ginimic
364
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Posted - 2013.06.20 15:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
EVE is a niche game. The sort of new player that would cancel their sub over a little war dec isn't going to stick around anyway. The issue has been posed as one of CCP profits many times but the argument just didn't hold water. As for how to deal with this sort of thing, the game is at its heart a social one. You need to make friends who are willing to help. There are loads of players out there who are dieing for more targets. No pun intended. Put out a clarion call for free war targets. There are other small PvP corps who will answer.
Welcome to EVE. Good luck. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
525
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Posted - 2013.06.20 16:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
EVE is pvp game. if you do not like to pvp week or two then EVE is not your game. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
0
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Posted - 2013.06.20 16:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Step 1. Disband your corp Step 2. Join Faction Warfare Step 3. Grind some LP for a day or two so you can afford a crapload of T1 frigs Step 4. Go make internet spaceships go boom and learn how to PVP while having loads of fun. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
300
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Posted - 2013.06.21 01:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
- Kill
- Them
- All
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TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1409
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Posted - 2013.06.21 09:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
1) Don't form a corp if you can't manage the consequences. 2) Join an already established corporation who are more capable of dealing with it, and can help you along the way 3) Biomass
hope this helps m8 |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Alpha Strategy The Unthinkables
213
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Posted - 2013.06.21 09:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Look at it this way: a wardec is much like paying off the cops in real life to look the other way while you do some shady ****. |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
427
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Posted - 2013.06.21 11:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
OP fail at understanding eve. |
xiline anahata
Perkone Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2013.06.21 11:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:if there are 10 of you just hop in wtfcheap talwars and try to alpha your foes from 60km and watch them call you a ****** in local. if you die you lost almost 0 isk and probably had a good luls. or make more alts and dual box so you can get 20 talwars. or make even more alts and use rookie ships to perma jam your foes while the talwars do the dirty work.
well that's .. a decent suggestion lol =)) thanks. tho some ppl are not so easily convinced, they're in it just for the pve since it's shiny graphics and awesome trailers you know |
xiline anahata
Perkone Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 11:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:OP fail at understanding eve.
thx m8. every opinion counts though you could of course grant me the courtesy of detailing yours, you didn't see me "omg wtf i been podded plx disable all hissecwarrs NAOEE!!!" did u ? |
xiline anahata
Perkone Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 11:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Praxis Ginimic, Thanatos Marathon thanks for the suggestions.
you know the main problem with this explo corp was that people were usually on their own and the griefers of course, were not. i will try to get a group together :)) |
Medude
Unstable Reaction Inc. Takahashi Alliance
7
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Posted - 2013.06.21 11:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
An extension to what Dan said use this as an opportunity to develop PVP skills and lose the fear of getting popped. You never know they might turn out to be a right blood thirsty lot after popping their PVP cherry! |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
429
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Posted - 2013.06.21 14:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
xiline anahata wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:OP fail at understanding eve. thx m8. every opinion counts though you could of course grant me the courtesy of detailing yours, you didn't see me "omg wtf i been podded plx disable all hissecwarrs NAOEE!!!" did u ?
asking for wars to be mutual is not undestanding eve.
That is not a WAR. Wars are unilateral agressions, anything besides that and woudl be stupid and serve no purpose.
This game is not for people that want to feel safe |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
297
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Posted - 2013.06.21 20:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
1, look at the killboard of the ppl who wardec you to find out what kind of ships they fly. 2. fit Griffins with racial jammers and fleet up 3. harvest tears |
Rabid Disconnection
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 20:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Listen to feedback from players, possibly contact previous targets of your aggressors, learn as much as you can.
Do not look at this as griefing, or as a detriment to your corp. This is a wonderful opportunity to learn some mechanics that will help you out in whatever you do. You will become a better player by experiencing a highsec wardec. |
xiline anahata
Perkone Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 21:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:xiline anahata wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:OP fail at understanding eve. thx m8. every opinion counts though you could of course grant me the courtesy of detailing yours, you didn't see me "omg wtf i been podded plx disable all hissecwarrs NAOEE!!!" did u ? asking for wars to be mutual is not undestanding eve. That is not a WAR. Wars are unilateral agressions, anything besides that and woudl be stupid and serve no purpose.
you have a point, relative to most space, save hi-sec. going a bit off topic but there is a logical discrepancy between wars being allowed in a place patrolled by peace-enforcing entities. just my 2cents
Quote: This game is not for people that want to feel safe
again you keep presuming everybody thinks like you. while this practice is not uncommon, it is still questionable. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2680
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 02:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
[quote=xiline anahata]there is a logical discrepancy between wars being allowed in a place patrolled by peace-enforcing entities. just my 2centsQuote:Just FYI... CONCORD is most certainly not a "peace enforcer." It is a "penalty enforcer." If someone decides to gank your ship without a war-dec or aggro timers... CONCORD will only gank the offending ship. Nothing more or less. What happens to the victim (whether he/she survived) is not their concern. War dec fees are "legal penalties/fees" to blow up your fellow peer. Quite basically... the point of high-sec is not to be a "newbie zone" but rather a place where unwanted aggression comes at a price. One price is your ship, security status, and infamy (which can run quite steep)... the price comes from liquid ISK and time (as there is a 24 hour warning given when a War Dec is initiated). It can also be fled from by the recipient more easily. [quote=xiline anahata] Quote: This game is not for people that want to feel safe
again you keep presuming everybody thinks like you. while this practice is not uncommon, it is still questionable. It is relative and contextual.
While you consider such actions against newbie corps objectionable, most of us don't. We've been through it ourselves and we understand how painful it can be (for the exact same reasons)... but honestly, it's nothing compared to what you face in the rest of the game. If you can't find a way to turn your current situation around then you'll have difficulty later on.
Then there is the fact that EVE is based around conflict... be it consensual or otherwise. When you sell stuff on the market... you are in conflict with people who are also selling their stuff. When you mine asteroids/ice blocks or explore different data/relic sites... you are in conflict with others who also want to mine those same 'roids/ice blocks or get the data/relics. When you PvP... people don't want to blow up, they want YOU to blow up.
With that said... I've give some useful advice now.
Griffins and Maulus'... get everyone into those ships and load them up with their respective Electronic Warfare. Undock all at once and jam your enemies until they go away. They cost "pennies" too. Less than 1 million ISK a pop.
You can also have fun with the situation. Get everyone into Atrons and fit them with blasters, scrams, webs, and a MWD. Go Leeroy Jenkins on the "squishiest" and most expensive piece of hardware the enemy has on field. Destroyers fit for full gank can work in a pinch too!
Failing all of that... you could try actually talking with your aggressors and see what they want. Pro-tips;
- be polite... no matter how abrasive or moronic they may seem. Chances are, they are trying to incite a reaction out of you. - make some jokes... they tend to go over well. - explain that you have no idea how to defend yourself (you're not lying here)... ask for advice on how you can better defend yourself against them (interesting fact; most will actually help/train you to fight better). - stand firm and don't pay ransoms... but see if you can arrange for another way to end the war-dec (ex. agree to have one big epic fight between "your guys" and "their guys"... and win or lose, the dec will drop). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
165
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Posted - 2013.06.22 03:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Use neutral haulers.
Train covert ships first.
War mechanic is broken. They need to let the defender have a shot at an isk war on who bribes off concord.
My preferred way would be with silent auction between the corps. Who ever bids highest pays the isk to concord and the war either does or does not happen based on who won the auction. Force the corp that loses to wait a month before they can re-declare. Since the defenders already paid a big fat protection check to concord. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
119
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 02:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think this raises an issue which many players fail to understand prior to establishing a corp in EvE. If you ever played warcraft 1 and built only gold producing units and structures you will understand what that issue is.
In EvE there are a few ways to run a corp in highsec successfully. You can recruit pve people and fight back with those. You can recruit pvers and a pvp wing and replacing ships and modules from corp wallet or the best way in my opinion recruit pvers and hire mercs from corp wallet when you are decced.
Make sure in your corp description you outline how your corp will handle wardecs. "While our corp is primarily PvE we welcome war declarations and have an cooperative agreement with [insert mercenary corp name] to respond to any declaration with extreme predjudice" or some such shite.
You cannot just have money making units in EvE even in highsec. You need a plan of defense and offence.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1341
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 04:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Make sure in your corp description you outline how your corp will handle wardecs. "While our corp is primarily PvE we welcome war declarations and have an cooperative agreement with [insert mercenary corp name] to respond to any declaration with extreme predjudice" or some such shite. While I generally agree with the above post absolutely don't do this. One thing that'll make me declare war on a corp pretty much instantly is seeing something like that in their corp description, particularly if it's not backed up by their killboard and war history.
I personally declared war on an alliance for doing that exact thing a little over a week ago.
You're much better off just killing your war targets and not saying a damned thing about it anywhere. When someone is scoping you out for a war they'll look at your war history and if they're likely to be deterred by the possibility of serious resistance they'll be deterred at that point. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
122
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 12:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Make sure in your corp description you outline how your corp will handle wardecs. "While our corp is primarily PvE we welcome war declarations and have an cooperative agreement with [insert mercenary corp name] to respond to any declaration with extreme predjudice" or some such shite. While I generally agree with the above post absolutely don't do this. One thing that'll make me declare war on a corp pretty much instantly is seeing something like that in their corp description, particularly if it's not backed up by their killboard and war history. I personally declared war on an alliance for doing that exact thing a little over a week ago. You're much better off just killing your war targets and not saying a damned thing about it anywhere. When someone is scoping you out for a war they'll look at your war history and if they're likely to be deterred by the possibility of serious resistance they'll be deterred at that point. I agree if its not true however the moment a competent merc corp crashes your party you'll retract. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1341
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 16:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
The problem is that most people's concept of "Competent mercs" is a bunch of mouth-breathing station campers like Marmite that aren't actually effective against people that wardec people in highsec. They are carebears they don't have the ability to identify effective mercs.
So when you put something in your description that you think says "Don't screw with us or these mean people will beat you up" what I see is "These incompetent cretins you've fought before are committed to helping us, please declare war on me to force them into a difficult situation".
Also getting a reaction out of an aggressor isn't always a good thing. My alliance typically doesn't let wars end while there are mercs involved in them.
Don't telegraph what you're going to do and don't say things that commits you or anyone to a specific course of action. Just be ready and know what your options are.
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
542
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 10:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Being elegable to wardecs is part of being a corp, and enjoying the benefts that come with it. Every corp active in hisec should have a protocol on what to do when a wardec is issued against you. There are many ways to deal with wardecs. I like to keep conducting business using a hard-to-catch ship and public contracting, and retreat back to lowsec where most hisec wardeccers won't even dare to follow. |
Katsumoto Moliko
Salient Logistics Inc. The Explicit Alliance
7
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Posted - 2013.06.27 08:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
War is not always a negative thing, it simply means your experience as a new player just got a whole lot more...
interesting.
Quote:miraculously develop pvp skills overnight (25hrs) which considering low-skills and low-isk of beginners isn't really an option This statement is not necessarily true. Learning how to fight is the most important skill in EVE, and there is no better way to learn than the hard way. Cutting your teeth and doing FW, RvB, or even simply flying out to lowsec in whatever you can afford with an itchy trigger finger will eventually pay off in the long run.
Quote:leaving player corp for npc newbie corps While this is an option, you must accept the fact that you cannot always be running away from your problems forever.
Quote:developing remarcable hide-n-seek skills which means you either run away/doc/logout (for how long?) or move to another empire's space where the area is a bit clearer.
This is hardly a difficult thing to learn how to do. It is a matter of simply fitting your ship correctly.
I flew a completely unarmed Rupture from deep in null to a border highsec system after resubbing a couple of days ago. Avoided more bubbled camps than I can count by simply not warping directly from gate to gate. After I docked up in a .5, I then refit my lowslots with warp core stabs and nanofiber internal structures, added polycarbon engine housings to my rigs, and effortlessly ran through more than a couple of war gatecamps on a mad dash to home.
You can avoid all of your "victimization" problems in EVE regarding wars by simply teaching yourself how not to be the victim. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
77
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 10:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
The thing is that you should setup a corp operation in NPC 0.0, this should be a exploration operation where you can use cheap frigates or better stil train covert ops to run the sites.
Train infomorph Pscychology, join one of those corps that offer JC services and get one or two, rejoin your corp then make your way there. Then when you get a war dec just JC there re-set med clone and laugh at the war deccers who will drop it after a week as they have no impact on you.
If you want any advice contact me in game. If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space, its as simple as that!-á-á-á-á-á-á-á There are people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local, well they should light a cyno and try jumping to it. |
Disastro
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
84
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 11:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
xiline anahata wrote:Greetings,
The fact that this happened to me is irrelevant since we're trying to keep an objective perspective on this matter. Being in a 10man corp and getting randomly wardec'd by bigger(corps or alliances, on average much larger than a small new player corp that doesnt really know ppl) is ok as far as i'm concerned ethically outside hisec space. Now, ofc, why would you move with a bunch of newbies to low/null ? well you don't. You stay in hi. However, the game mechanics allow for random entities to wardec in hisec basically giving 3 options: [list]
miraculously develop pvp skills overnight (25hrs) which considering low-skills and low-isk of beginners isn't really an option leaving player corp for npc newbie corps developing remarcable hide-n-seek skills which means you either run away/doc/logout (for how long?) Developing hide or seek skills requires no skill points at all. Your folks need to watch local if they are in space. If they see a guy with a red star by his name enter local then you warp to station and dock. It really isnt that hard to avoid dying in a high sec war dec.
Folks who mine are the most exposed probably because they will be sitting semi afk in a belt and easily found by a neutral scouting alt. Folks who mission are exposed when they go through gates so they will need to scout the next system in a pod or a frig or something or with an alt before entering to keep their ship from getting ganked. Stay aligned to station and if you see a red star enter local then warp to station (assume someone neutral probed out your mission). |
yopparai
ASTARTES CORP Hashashin Cartel
1667
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 18:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
Move to lowsec and learn to eve, then you won't have to whine every time you get wardecced.
Moving to lowsec forces your members to grow up fast, & most wardec corps won't venture into lowsec so you won't have to worry about them bugging you.
If your members say they aren't ready for lowsec kick the out of corp, they are cowards and not worth your time.
So many people have this idea that they need to train skills & just do pve for years before they can dive into pvp, but you should really get into pvp as early on as you can & then worry about doing all the other boring stuff eve has to offer.
Yopp |
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