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Aya Shinomiya
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2013.06.21 11:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi there,
Some month ago I wrote a post about the size of missiles and missile launchers compared to many ships hulls. That the launchers as well as the missiles are too big for many smaller ship hulls. Also the amount of missile you can put into your cargo hold is too high compared with the size. Furthermore some ships look ridiculous with bigger launchers.
While doing missions I saw things, which top all other mentioned in the previous post:
A Gallente Navy Tristan with heavy missile launchers. A Thukker fighter with 3 missile launcher on the hull. A Caldari Navy Caracal fitted with railguns or a Augoror with heavy missiles.
It seems CCP breaks rules of the game mechanics to fit NPC ships, while we player are restricted to them.
I do not want to fit a heavy missile launcher to a frigate. This is ridiculous. What I want is tidy fitted NPC ship with credible weapons and fittings. If it is not CCPs priority to make the turret and launcher size more realistic compared to ships hulls, okay. But they should not break rules of the game mechanic to fit the NPC ships. Give them a reasonable fitting with more than one weapon and if they become too strong in the mass than lower the number of ships. Most level 1 to level 3 mission NPC ships are nothing more than targeting practice anyway. I cannot speak for level 4 and 5 missions.
Instead of a mass of poor fitted ships, I would like to see some smaller groups with 2, 3 or 4 good fitted (they use all slots including rigs) NPC ships, as example. The kind of the fitting (combination of modules, Meta Level, Tech-2), the number, type and combination of ships in one group and the number of the groups spread over the mission site would depends on the mission level and the mission content.
I want credible and challenging (depending on the mission level) NPC opponents with credible fittings. No more mass of poor fitted ships stupid flying around and waiting for someone passing by and shoot them. GÇÿOh please, shoot me. I have nothing else to do as to orbit this wreckage.GÇÖ Something heard of patrol routes? If it is possible I would also like to see some tactical behavior.
The missions are boring and repetitive enough. And mostly you are bored by the stupid NPC-fair game.
Best regards.
P.S.: It would be very nice if you CCP could finally devote to such things and not introducing every expansion new content and shiny new things. First redo the outdated things. Otherwise the cart will rust away under your butt while you install tinted windows. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
336
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Posted - 2013.06.21 14:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
It is well known that CCP Devs do not know how to fit ships.
With every other bug report becoming a "feature request" and then summarily ignored, or being begged off by claims of spaghetti code, its pretty clear that the cart has been rusting for a while.
Also, NPC's arent all that high up on the list of things CCP feels they need to fix as nullsec blob pictures pay the bills. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Zircon Dasher
253
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Posted - 2013.06.21 14:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aya Shinomiya wrote: No more mass of poor fitted ships stupid flying around and waiting for someone passing by and shoot them.
As soon as players do this I think CCP will follow suit. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
572
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Posted - 2013.06.21 15:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Missions and NPC AI are old parts of the game written in wobbly old code. CCP's aware that it's not their best work, and they upgraded the AI recently, believe it or not. However, because the code is low-level and there are lots of odd dependencies--even POSes use the NPC AI!--it's not an easy fix, and a lot of the work that will fix PVE will fix a lot of other things as well.
Aya Shinomiya wrote:P.S.: It would be very nice if you CCP could finally devote to such things and not introducing every expansion new content and shiny new things. First redo the outdated things. Otherwise the cart will rust away under your butt while you install tinted windows.
Per CCP Fozzie, there is at least one team hard at work on ripping out EVE's old guts and transplanting new, shiny ones. CCP Veritas is busy working a level down from them, optimizing the physics engine. The reason why CCP must continue to offer shinies is that there are a clear and vocal majority of users who equate visible changes to work done, and who will complain that CCP isn't doing anything if they spend all of their time heroically refactoring and recoding back-end systems. It's not just CCP's problem, either; any software developer is familiar with the problem.
CCP's particular problem is that they did fire-and-forget feature development for so many years that there are so many parts of the game that need iteration or outright clean-sheet redesign that none of them are going to get accomplished on a timetable that makes anyone happy--including the developers.
So missions will get fixed, and the NPC AI improved. CCP and CSM know about the problem, and they have ideas for fixes. There's just so much else to fix. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Helios Aquiness
The Rising Stars Academy
19
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Posted - 2013.06.21 15:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
The last 2 launcher images featured a raven useing lazers on a planet and now a nemisis featured as an explorer ship. |
Aya Shinomiya
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2013.06.21 16:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sounds all intelligible so far. But why this ridiculous fittings like the heavy missile launcher Tristan and the violation of the game mechanics? What is the reason for this you think? |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
614
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Posted - 2013.06.21 18:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
With the Tristan-- you know, I've wondered about that. Some of the 'elite' Navy NPCs use the heavier frigate hulls, but seem to act like cruisers in terms of sig radius, EHP, and so on. I suspect a dev without player experience grabbed the wrong art, unknowingly. |
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
228
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Posted - 2013.06.21 19:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree with this, there are some silly npcs out there. There are Serpentis rats that will have 8 guns fit then will still fire defender missiles from no where. Since most rats predate that missile launcher models, none of them have more then one launcher fit, even the ones that only fire missiles. Almost all of them dual tank as well, with chances of repping both their shields and armor. All kind of silly. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
572
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Posted - 2013.06.21 20:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aya Shinomiya wrote:Sounds all intelligible so far. But why this ridiculous fittings like the heavy missile launcher Tristan and the violation of the game mechanics? What is the reason for this you think?
The game used to be quite different in the early days. For example, you could fit and run multiple prop mods at the same time. EWAR used to have much more range and be much more powerful. The game was significantly less regulated than it is now.
The NPCs haven't been updated in so long that they still follow the old rules, in addition to cheating by e.g. having infinite capacitors and >200km targeting ranges.
Re: missiles, those used to cause a heavy server load, which might be why NPCs only ever fire one. They might have made them oversized to bring the DPS somewhat in line with multiple, smaller launchers.
Basically, NPCs are a hot mess. :-) Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Aya Shinomiya
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2013.06.21 21:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Aya Shinomiya wrote:Sounds all intelligible so far. But why this ridiculous fittings like the heavy missile launcher Tristan and the violation of the game mechanics? What is the reason for this you think? The game used to be quite different in the early days. For example, you could fit and run multiple prop mods at the same time. EWAR used to have much more range and be much more powerful. The game was significantly less regulated than it is now. The NPCs haven't been updated in so long that they still follow the old rules, in addition to cheating by e.g. having infinite capacitors and >200km targeting ranges. Re: missiles, those used to cause a heavy server load, which might be why NPCs only ever fire one. They might have made them oversized to bring the DPS somewhat in line with multiple, smaller launchers. Basically, NPCs are a hot mess. :-)
I understand. It seems your are right. Only the missile ships have only one weapon, I believe. Not sure. But maybe the solution would again be less ships and maybe only one or two missile boats per group and the rest uses only turrets. Instead of these mass of missile ships with only one launcher. |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
306
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Posted - 2013.06.22 01:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP have spoken of wanting to do just that, redo all the NPC's all over the place. However it is more than just going through and slapping 'correct' fittings on them. They have to re-evaluate every single mission that that NPC appears in for balance, make sure it's not too powerful or too weak, and rebalance bounties along with it. And it's not a change that they can do one ship at a time, or all of a sudden you will have those Caracals firing 6 or so Heavy Missiles along side other Caracals firing only one. |
Hakaimono
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly
161
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Posted - 2013.06.22 01:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
It would be nice if the server could handle Guristas firing full volleys of missiles. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
573
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Posted - 2013.06.24 16:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hakaimono wrote:It would be nice if the server could handle Guristas firing full volleys of missiles.
At this point, I don't believe the server is the problem. The single-missile-firing NPCs are just a holdover from the time when it was.
It wouldn't surprise me if they slipped it into a release as a minor fix. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Ania Tsaluan
501st Imperial Legion Unknown Destination
7
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Posted - 2013.06.24 18:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kind of like how sansha rats drop armor mods, when the player version are all shield tanked? Yeah.... umm..... |
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