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Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 04:58:00 -
[181] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Behr Oroo wrote: Actually wait a second here. Isn't that EXACTLY the reason for null sec. Null sec is an area of space that players can move into and control. Concord doesn't protect them, they have to control SOV of the area and it takes a lot of work to make a home system.
Null sec is an area of space that players can move into, put effort, fight, accept risks to control. The point is just this: if a single player in a frigate (often AFK, lol) is enough to make you panic and dock terrorized shutting down any activity (as you state) then not only you do not control a ****, but also you don't have the required mindset to live there. Everyone in EVE is used to deal with this stuff: they do not whine, they adapt and put effort to defend their gameplay. You, a small minority already privileged, for some reason think to be a special snowflake, entiteled to have everything for free, granted by game mechanics. And none of you (nor adresisng "you" personally now) see how you're a small, well delimited, minority, you don't care for the general gameplay and balance: nooo, the whole gameplay have to be ruined and shaped around your usless, small business and your poor mindset as gamers. And more you guys are noobs more you're arrogant: you mistake covert ops, black ops and cyno fields, you barely know what a probe is or how to use d-scan but still pretend to dictate game mechanics to everyone else.
Wow. Bit overboard wouldnt you say? Look if you dont like my idea, say so and move on. From your reaction I would guess you have just glanced over most of the thread and thru your own bias, choose not to even consider any of the ideas placed forth.
Have I once said that an AFK cloak has shut down my operations? No. I even stated I would move elsewhere and I do. Does that ship scare me? No. My entire point of this thread is the imbalance of a game mechanic that SEVERAL PLAYERS have stated is an issue. Even those on this thread that don't like my idea have stated that AFK cloak camping is lame but they feel it's their only way to accomplish their goal in the current game environment.
Well you know what. I came here to offer a suggestion, that is what this forum is for. I have had a few people actually like the idea, a few didnt like the idea and a few that didnt like the idea offered suggestions that have led to a compromise in this idea.
I accept the risk of living in null and never once in this thread have I asked for that risk to be zero. People have claimed that's what I want, and I have pointed out that isn't what I want.
I ask for a chance to fight back against a style of game play at the moment that is untouchable. You might find it funny, think I am a noob or whatever. I personally dont care, cause this is a game. If you get so worked up to react on a forum in the manner that you just did, then I do believe you are taking this game way way way too seriously. |
Astroniomix
Cryptic Meta-4
524
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 06:51:00 -
[182] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:
I ask for a chance to fight back against a style of game play at the moment that is untouchable.
But it's only untouchable up until the point that they try to interact with you. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15027
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 09:45:00 -
[183] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:Behr Oroo wrote:
I ask for a chance to fight back against a style of game play at the moment that is untouchable.
But it's only untouchable up until the point that they try to interact with you. This
Whilst they are untouchable, you are from them. When they can harm you, when they become a real threat, you can shoot them.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
462
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 11:21:00 -
[184] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote: I accept the risk of living in null and never once in this thread have I asked for that risk to be zero. People have claimed that's what I want, and I have pointed out that isn't what I want.
Actually there's almost no risk in living in null, only passive rewards. This is due the trivialization operated in the last years to the game mechanics. The ONLY risk element is just some occasional covert ops or hotdrop, and is just what you ask to nerf.
The only (remote) chance of non-consensual PvP is surprise "hit and run" attack. Any change. Actually this is possible only using cov-ops and hotdrops. Any change invovling the reduction of the time fram avaiable for the surprise atatck (AKA: nerf cloacking time/opportunities) basically remove also this last little door still open.
I dunno where this idea of null sec systems as instaced private areras come from, maybe from WOW raids; but please, at least do not say that improve game mechanics to discourage/prevent people to be in the same system is a PVP improvement.
Behr Oroo wrote: Have I once said that an AFK cloak has shut down my operations?
You did,just in the part I had quoted:
Behr Oroo wrote: They are trying to screw with the minds of the people in that system and shut down production. Why don't I like this. Cause its very effective. Why do I seek a change? Cause in my opinion its far too effective.
And I know this is the psycology/habit/culture for a large part of null sec resident. "there's a neutral in local I've to stop any activity"; WH residents laugh at this idea; low sec residents laugh as well. Even high sec miners laugh. But you no, you're special, your mind is screwed by a neutral in local and your answer is not "well, I will adapt my mindest to the game and deal with it" (like 99% of EVE players already do); no, your answer is "I've to cry to adapt the game mechanics to my screwed mind".
And here another null-bears mindset: I put a flag on a palce and then I don't have to do anything, it's mine and it's a granted farming paradise.
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TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1438
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 11:57:00 -
[185] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote:Behr Oroo wrote: Actually wait a second here. Isn't that EXACTLY the reason for null sec. Null sec is an area of space that players can move into and control. Concord doesn't protect them, they have to control SOV of the area and it takes a lot of work to make a home system.
Null sec is an area of space that players can move into, put effort, fight, accept risks to control. The point is just this: if a single player in a frigate (often AFK, lol) is enough to make you panic and dock terrorized shutting down any activity (as you state) then not only you do not control a ****, but also you don't have the required mindset to live there. Everyone in EVE is used to deal with this stuff: they do not whine, they adapt and put effort to defend their gameplay. You, a small minority already privileged, for some reason think to be a special snowflake, entiteled to have everything for free, granted by game mechanics. And none of you (nor adresisng "you" personally now) see how you're a small, well delimited, minority, you don't care for the general gameplay and balance: nooo, the whole gameplay have to be ruined and shaped around your usless, small business and your poor mindset as gamers. And more you guys are noobs more you're arrogant: you mistake covert ops, black ops and cyno fields, you barely know what a probe is or how to use d-scan but still pretend to dictate game mechanics to everyone else. Wow. Bit overboard wouldnt you say? Look if you dont like my idea, say so and move on. From your reaction I would guess you have just glanced over most of the thread and thru your own bias, choose not to even consider any of the ideas placed forth. Have I once said that an AFK cloak has shut down my operations? No. I even stated I would move elsewhere and I do. Does that ship scare me? No. My entire point of this thread is the imbalance of a game mechanic that SEVERAL PLAYERS have stated is an issue. Even those on this thread that don't like my idea have stated that AFK cloak camping is lame but they feel it's their only way to accomplish their goal in the current game environment. Well you know what. I came here to offer a suggestion, that is what this forum is for. I have had a few people actually like the idea, a few didnt like the idea and a few that didnt like the idea offered suggestions that have led to a compromise in this idea. I accept the risk of living in null and never once in this thread have I asked for that risk to be zero. People have claimed that's what I want, and I have pointed out that isn't what I want. I ask for a chance to fight back against a style of game play at the moment that is untouchable. You might find it funny, think I am a noob or whatever. I personally dont care, cause this is a game. If you get so worked up to react on a forum in the manner that you just did, then I do believe you are taking this game way way way too seriously.
Why is it even an issue if they're "untouchable"? They can't do much if they're cloaked beyond gather intel - the moment they try to do something aggressive you're able to fight them. Why do you keep insisting on a way to kill someone who has no way of killing you? Why aren't you extending your complaints of them being "untouchable" to those who sit in pos shields or outposts, who can scurry off to them the second local changes - before the player you're so obsessed with nerfing has even loaded itno system.
And, for the nth time, your proposals are terrible terrible nerfs to many activities. All for... what? Because you're upset that you can't dictate or force a fight whenever you decide you want one? Welcome to our world, mate! |
Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
159
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 12:47:00 -
[186] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Astroniomix wrote:Behr Oroo wrote:
I ask for a chance to fight back against a style of game play at the moment that is untouchable.
But it's only untouchable up until the point that they try to interact with you. This Whilst they are untouchable, you are from them. When they can harm you, when they become a real threat, you can shoot them.
FFS, Please, Please, Please do not use logic anymore. It is completely unfair (as well as rude) to use it against someone. Because people are crying about AFK and cloaking and AFK cloaking, it HAS to be bad. ;) |
Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 15:48:00 -
[187] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Astroniomix wrote:Behr Oroo wrote:
I ask for a chance to fight back against a style of game play at the moment that is untouchable.
But it's only untouchable up until the point that they try to interact with you. This Whilst they are untouchable, you are from them. When they can harm you, when they become a real threat, you can shoot them.
This statement is false and you know it. To allow a ship to sit in a system and gather intel, especially if a corp or alliance is involved in a war, is a major threat to security.
They can see ship movements, types, and player names associated with the ships they are in. If a large group of caps move thru that system, they get all the intel they need.
There is absolutely no reason why anyone would allow this type of intel to be freely given out and I see no reason in asking for a possibility to combat such actions. |
Astroniomix
Cryptic Meta-4
527
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 15:57:00 -
[188] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote: intel to be freely given out
It's not our fault that this is how local works. |
Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 16:01:00 -
[189] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:Behr Oroo wrote: intel to be freely given out
It's not our fault that this is how local works.
I am guessing that the idea of removing all Black Ops ships and ships that can equip the covert ops from local was just completely ignored? |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1952
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 16:06:00 -
[190] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Astroniomix wrote:Behr Oroo wrote: intel to be freely given out
It's not our fault that this is how local works. I am guessing that the idea of removing all Black Ops ships and ships that can equip the covert ops from local was just completely ignored? It does not compensate for the loss to cloaking, if you refer to black ops bridging being the required element for this.
It simply needs more to balance the reactive and proactive ability to hunt cloaked vessels in any manner. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 16:13:00 -
[191] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Behr Oroo wrote:Astroniomix wrote:Behr Oroo wrote: intel to be freely given out
It's not our fault that this is how local works. I am guessing that the idea of removing all Black Ops ships and ships that can equip the covert ops from local was just completely ignored? It does not compensate for the loss to cloaking, if you refer to black ops bridging being the required element for this. It simply needs more to balance the reactive and proactive ability to hunt cloaked vessels in any manner.
have you actually read the mechanics of the ship I suggested? I am honestly curious how powerful you think such a scout ship would be?
I have tried to keep the ship limited to actually only decloaking a ship at a range of 2.5km and only actually being able to see the ship at 5km, with scan probes limited to a range of 8AU.
I get the impression people are not reading what I have suggested and are just blindly trying to say this wont work. |
Astroniomix
Cryptic Meta-4
528
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 16:20:00 -
[192] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote: have you actually read the mechanics of the ship I suggested? I am honestly curious how powerful you think such a scout ship would be?
I have tried to keep the ship limited to actually only decloaking a ship at a range of 2.5km and only actually being able to see the ship at 5km, with scan probes limited to a range of 8AU.
I get the impression people are not reading what I have suggested and are just blindly trying to say this wont work.
Trying to limit scan probe range doesn't really do anything. And we still haven't even touched on how this breaks wormholes. |
Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 16:28:00 -
[193] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:Behr Oroo wrote: have you actually read the mechanics of the ship I suggested? I am honestly curious how powerful you think such a scout ship would be?
I have tried to keep the ship limited to actually only decloaking a ship at a range of 2.5km and only actually being able to see the ship at 5km, with scan probes limited to a range of 8AU.
I get the impression people are not reading what I have suggested and are just blindly trying to say this wont work.
Trying to limit scan probe range doesn't really do anything. And we still haven't even touched on how this breaks wormholes.
OK. I am cool. WH are special space, and poof. All detection is nullified. I never honestly ever cared about WH space anyway, so the idea of making the scout ship not work there, doesn't bother me. It fits the idea of a WH anyway.
|
Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
159
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 16:49:00 -
[194] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Astroniomix wrote:Behr Oroo wrote: have you actually read the mechanics of the ship I suggested? I am honestly curious how powerful you think such a scout ship would be?
I have tried to keep the ship limited to actually only decloaking a ship at a range of 2.5km and only actually being able to see the ship at 5km, with scan probes limited to a range of 8AU.
I get the impression people are not reading what I have suggested and are just blindly trying to say this wont work.
Trying to limit scan probe range doesn't really do anything. And we still haven't even touched on how this breaks wormholes. OK. I am cool. WH are special space, and poof. All detection is nullified. I never honestly ever cared about WH space anyway, so the idea of making the scout ship not work there, doesn't bother me. It fits the idea of a WH anyway.
That is why most bad ideas like yours are (and should be) ignored with prejudice. You don't care about anything but yourself and what you want. |
Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 16:52:00 -
[195] - Quote
Onomerous wrote:Behr Oroo wrote:Astroniomix wrote:Behr Oroo wrote: have you actually read the mechanics of the ship I suggested? I am honestly curious how powerful you think such a scout ship would be?
I have tried to keep the ship limited to actually only decloaking a ship at a range of 2.5km and only actually being able to see the ship at 5km, with scan probes limited to a range of 8AU.
I get the impression people are not reading what I have suggested and are just blindly trying to say this wont work.
Trying to limit scan probe range doesn't really do anything. And we still haven't even touched on how this breaks wormholes. OK. I am cool. WH are special space, and poof. All detection is nullified. I never honestly ever cared about WH space anyway, so the idea of making the scout ship not work there, doesn't bother me. It fits the idea of a WH anyway. That is why most bad ideas like yours are (and should be) ignored with prejudice. You don't care about anything but yourself and what you want.
Hey, I appreciate the input. it's obviously wrong since I am offering compromises to help balance things.
Nice try though. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
463
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 18:02:00 -
[196] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote: They can see ship movements, types, and player names associated with the ships they are in. If a large group of caps move thru that system, they get all the intel they need.
1. Thi is not related to cloacking, is related to EVE mechanics (local and others). Exactly the same mechanics that allow you to know if some hostile is entering your farming systems (but that's ok for you). Anyone can provide that kind of intel untouched, for sure the one traveling there in covert ops to do this put more effort than anyone docked or hidden behind a shield POS or ratting 24/7.
2. One of the role for covert ops is just to scout and spy deep inside hostile systems, is part of the game. And they need to be able to move undetected to do this. You can use them too against your enemies.
3. For some evaluable inteleligence (as your example ov capitals movements) you don't even need to be in the region: you will have added as contacts all your enemies capital pilots, and you see then they're logging.
4. If somoene is providing intel for sure is not AFK. And your thread is about "combat AFK campers". If the idea was "remove intel gathering from the game" than is a different topic.
5. Everyone in EVE is used to deal with this stuff. But seems to become an issue only for a very specific small subset of players. The rest deal with scouts, cloacker, intel gathering and is fine with it. So I'm more incline to think the issue to fix is the mindset of that minority instead of having the whole game ruined to make them happy.
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Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
159
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 18:26:00 -
[197] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Onomerous wrote:Behr Oroo wrote:Astroniomix wrote:Behr Oroo wrote: have you actually read the mechanics of the ship I suggested? I am honestly curious how powerful you think such a scout ship would be?
I have tried to keep the ship limited to actually only decloaking a ship at a range of 2.5km and only actually being able to see the ship at 5km, with scan probes limited to a range of 8AU.
I get the impression people are not reading what I have suggested and are just blindly trying to say this wont work.
Trying to limit scan probe range doesn't really do anything. And we still haven't even touched on how this breaks wormholes. OK. I am cool. WH are special space, and poof. All detection is nullified. I never honestly ever cared about WH space anyway, so the idea of making the scout ship not work there, doesn't bother me. It fits the idea of a WH anyway. That is why most bad ideas like yours are (and should be) ignored with prejudice. You don't care about anything but yourself and what you want. Hey, I appreciate the input. it's obviously wrong since I am offering compromises to help balance things. Nice try though.
You admitted you don't care about WH. And you are trying to fix something which isn't broken by screwing up part of EVE. If that is compromise then I'll do without. |
Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 19:34:00 -
[198] - Quote
Onomerous
You know you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Just stop it. The statement was generalized around the concept of the ship. I never considered WH space when I thought about the idea and I don't care if the ship has any interaction with Wh space. If people think it breaks a mechanic in WH space, then I will consider it. Guess what. I thought about it and I agree. It effects Wh space mechanics and thus, I am more than willing to modify my suggestion by saying that the ship wouldn't work in WH for cloak detection.
So like a few others here you are attempting to derail the thread by cherry picking terminology and or statements. Stop it. I get it. You don't like the idea. That is fine. I am going to continue with the idea cause several times in this thread decent progress towards a solution has been made. If you don't wish to help, then stop reading. It is rather simple. |
Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
160
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 19:43:00 -
[199] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Onomerous
You know you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Just stop it. The statement was generalized around the concept of the ship. I never considered WH space when I thought about the idea and I don't care if the ship has any interaction with Wh space. If people think it breaks a mechanic in WH space, then I will consider it. Guess what. I thought about it and I agree. It effects Wh space mechanics and thus, I am more than willing to modify my suggestion by saying that the ship wouldn't work in WH for cloak detection.
So like a few others here you are attempting to derail the thread by cherry picking terminology and or statements. Stop it. I get it. You don't like the idea. That is fine. I am going to continue with the idea cause several times in this thread decent progress towards a solution has been made. If you don't wish to help, then stop reading. It is rather simple.
You know you are just arguing for the sake of arguing
Not at all. I am supporting a no-changes idea. You are supporting a change idea. We can both post our thoughts just fine. It is rather simple. |
Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 19:54:00 -
[200] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Behr Oroo wrote: They can see ship movements, types, and player names associated with the ships they are in. If a large group of caps move thru that system, they get all the intel they need.
1. Thi is not related to cloacking, is related to EVE mechanics (local and others). Exactly the same mechanics that allow you to know if some hostile is entering your farming systems (but that's ok for you). Anyone can provide that kind of intel untouched, for sure the one traveling there in covert ops to do this put more effort than anyone docked or hidden behind a shield POS or ratting 24/7. 2. One of the role for covert ops is just to scout and spy deep inside hostile systems, is part of the game. And they need to be able to move undetected to do this. You can use them too against your enemies. 3. For some evaluable inteleligence (as your example ov capitals movements) you don't even need to be in the region: you will have added as contacts all your enemies capital pilots, and you see then they're logging. 4. If somoene is providing intel for sure is not AFK. And your thread is about "combat AFK campers". If the idea was "remove intel gathering from the game" than is a different topic. 5. Everyone in EVE is used to deal with this stuff. But seems to become an issue only for a very specific small subset of players. The rest deal with scouts, cloacker, intel gathering and is fine with it. So I'm more incline to think the issue to fix is the mindset of that minority instead of having the whole game ruined to make them happy.
I disagree that a small section of Eve think this is an issue. There is a thread that is nothing but a COLLECTION of threads on the specific topic. That in itself shows that there is more than a slight interest in the issue.
Yes a covert ops ship is designed to scout and move into enemy territory. It does its job well. I have offered to let it do its job even better by removing it from local as well.
As for tagging all the cap pilots on your friends list and seeing when they log in. You have to have someone tell you who they are first and really that ability in itself is far more abusive than local. That's global intel. You seem ok with this.
Yes my original reason for posting was a frustration with AFK or seemingly afk cloak ships. I have admitted that in the course of discussing this, the idea has grown and I have accepted that it includes more than that. This is why I have been willing to consider and even modify the idea to fit both sides.
Wouldn't you like to have the ability to run someone out of your system if they were collecting info on you, or are you just ok with them watching your every move?
Maybe its just me but I like the idea of making the game of cat and mouse more fun with the variety of cloak ships out there. The ability to hunt each other would make things more interesting.
And this is a discussion forum on ideas. To think that an idea cant be adjusted on while its being discussed is ignorant. That's how progress on things is made. I understand you don't feel there is an issue here, but like I originally stated. There are several that do and I am going to continue to talk about the idea, unless a dev decides to close the topic. |
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Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 19:59:00 -
[201] - Quote
Onomerous wrote:Behr Oroo wrote:Onomerous
You know you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Just stop it. The statement was generalized around the concept of the ship. I never considered WH space when I thought about the idea and I don't care if the ship has any interaction with Wh space. If people think it breaks a mechanic in WH space, then I will consider it. Guess what. I thought about it and I agree. It effects Wh space mechanics and thus, I am more than willing to modify my suggestion by saying that the ship wouldn't work in WH for cloak detection.
So like a few others here you are attempting to derail the thread by cherry picking terminology and or statements. Stop it. I get it. You don't like the idea. That is fine. I am going to continue with the idea cause several times in this thread decent progress towards a solution has been made. If you don't wish to help, then stop reading. It is rather simple. You know you are just arguing for the sake of arguingNot at all. I am supporting a no-changes idea. You are supporting a change idea. We can both post our thoughts just fine. It is rather simple. .. and I don't wish to help your idea because it is bad. It is fixing something which doesn't need to be fixed. And I will continue to do so. It is rather simple.
Very well. Your dislike has been noted. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15029
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 21:02:00 -
[202] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Mag's wrote:Whilst they are untouchable, you are from them. When they can harm you, when they become a real threat, you can shoot them. This statement is false and you know it. To allow a ship to sit in a system and gather intel, especially if a corp or alliance is involved in a war, is a major threat to security. They can see ship movements, types, and player names associated with the ships they are in. If a large group of caps move thru that system, they get all the intel they need. There is absolutely no reason why anyone would allow this type of intel to be freely given out and I see nothing wrong in asking for a possibility to combat such actions. Gather intel? I'm sorry but I thought it was the AFK part you were targeting here. Isn't intel gathering an active pursuit?
But why shouldn't they be able to work for this intel? For if they are gathering intel, they are working for it. Others seem to cope rather well, with pilot using covert ops in the systems they are in. Do you feel that with the intel they supposedly are gaining, you would be unable to cope with an invasion? Are you therefore even entitled to hold sov, in which ever system to now reside in?
I lived in null for years and have seen my fair share of AFK pilots. I can honestly say it never once bothered me or any of the corp members I flew with.
Also, it's not a false statement. You may assume they are gathering intel, you may assume many things, but assumption is all you have. Many assumed at the start of this thread you were being honest with your intentions, but guess what happened with that.
The reason I don't want change is simple. I believe it's balance, with locals having the slight edge in that dept. I also think it adds great flavour to the game, making Eve a far richer game for the inclusion of this psychological warfare. It separates the men from the boys, so to speak.
Oh and if you don't actually need a cloak to use local for psychological warfare, what happens when pilots start using the other methods? Do you then return and scream for more change? pff
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 22:00:00 -
[203] - Quote
Mag's I have to admit I really like you.
You have this great talent for the forums. You are able to cherry pick bits and pieces of something and twist them to make them sound like what you are saying is the ulitmate truth and try to destroy the person you are working against. It's quite a good talent and I applaud you for it.
However to point out a few things. I have pointed out in several posts that my idea has changed and grown over time. This is a natural thing for ideas. They do change and they get modified as more and more information is added to them. Also again you ignore the statement that I have said several times that I personally do not let these people bother me. I will move to a new location and I do move when a situation like this happens.
You seem to confuse my statements as crying for change. Again this is untrue. I am supporting an idea that I happen to like. One that I think would make the game more interesting, as well as combat certain situations in the game. I have said in a few posts that if nothing is done, I am not going to worry about it. It is what is it. But again I point out the COLLECTION thread on this exact issue. This is more than just a few people saying something. There have been mulitple people, making the same statements. This is a good indication that the situation should be considered.
I completely accept that you arent a fan of this idea. That is perfectly fine. I am not against anything you are saying. I started this thread from an annoyance with AFK campers that would spend days in my home system. Again I feel that if they are allowed to engage me, even if its in some mental battle, then I should be able to engage him back. Namely, finding and attempting to destroy his ship.
Just because my original post has grown does not mean that I have lied about my intentions. Some things I had not considered or didnt know about. To change my view to try to fit others suggestions is not a weakness as you are trying to point out.
Again you bring up someone sitting in system without a cloak. You are more than welcome to try but it tends to not to work well.
No, you seem far more interested in trying to poke holes in my character than the actual topic at hand.
As for your questions on intel. Again you attempt to deflect the topic by eventually boiling the questions down to some form of personal attack implying I cant handle a possible invasion or I am not suppose to be in null.
But to answer your questions. Absolutely they should gain the intel they work for. I dont think its unfair to be able to fight back against this.
I could be wrong but I do feel you have ignored several parts of my suggestion, as the original post was just the start of an idea that has grown, an in several areas to the benifit of the cloakies. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1442
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 22:39:00 -
[204] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote:Behr Oroo wrote: They can see ship movements, types, and player names associated with the ships they are in. If a large group of caps move thru that system, they get all the intel they need.
1. Thi is not related to cloacking, is related to EVE mechanics (local and others). Exactly the same mechanics that allow you to know if some hostile is entering your farming systems (but that's ok for you). Anyone can provide that kind of intel untouched, for sure the one traveling there in covert ops to do this put more effort than anyone docked or hidden behind a shield POS or ratting 24/7. 2. One of the role for covert ops is just to scout and spy deep inside hostile systems, is part of the game. And they need to be able to move undetected to do this. You can use them too against your enemies. 3. For some evaluable inteleligence (as your example ov capitals movements) you don't even need to be in the region: you will have added as contacts all your enemies capital pilots, and you see then they're logging. 4. If somoene is providing intel for sure is not AFK. And your thread is about "combat AFK campers". If the idea was "remove intel gathering from the game" than is a different topic. 5. Everyone in EVE is used to deal with this stuff. But seems to become an issue only for a very specific small subset of players. The rest deal with scouts, cloacker, intel gathering and is fine with it. So I'm more incline to think the issue to fix is the mindset of that minority instead of having the whole game ruined to make them happy. I disagree that a small section of Eve think this is an issue. There is a thread that is nothing but a COLLECTION of threads on the specific topic. That in itself shows that there is more than a slight interest in the issue. Yes a covert ops ship is designed to scout and move into enemy territory. It does its job well. I have offered to let it do its job even better by removing it from local as well. As for tagging all the cap pilots on your friends list and seeing when they log in. You have to have someone tell you who they are first and really that ability in itself is far more abusive than local. That's global intel. You seem ok with this. Yes my original reason for posting was a frustration with AFK or seemingly afk cloak ships. I have admitted that in the course of discussing this, the idea has grown and I have accepted that it includes more than that. This is why I have been willing to consider and even modify the idea to fit both sides. Wouldn't you like to have the ability to run someone out of your system if they were collecting info on you, or are you just ok with them watching your every move? Maybe its just me but I like the idea of making the game of cat and mouse more fun with the variety of cloak ships out there. The ability to hunt each other would make things more interesting. And this is a discussion forum on ideas. To think that an idea cant be adjusted on while its being discussed is ignorant. That's how progress on things is made. I understand you don't feel there is an issue here, but like I originally stated. There are several that do and I am going to continue to talk about the idea, unless a dev decides to close the topic.
Only a tiny, tiny fraction of EVE think this is an issue, and that tiny tiny fraction are entitled nullbears.
No one in highsec cares. No one in wormholes care. No one in lowsec cares. The majority of nullsec players don't care (they did choose an uncertain, dangerous area to live in after all).
Just because that tiny tiny minority are the loudest cry babies in the game does not mean they are a majority, and it certainly does not mean the crap they say is actually an issue. |
Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 22:43:00 -
[205] - Quote
Gun, I believe there are more people concerned about it than you are willing to admit. I would guess many of them choose to ignore the forums though, cause they know that most of the time it just ends up in a flame war. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
905
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 00:16:00 -
[206] - Quote
Stealth nerf cloak thread.
Tssk tssk tssk.
You baddies... *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 04:34:00 -
[207] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Stealth nerf cloak thread.
Tssk tssk tssk.
You baddies...
Yes it would seem I have angered a few here with an idea.
I really should make a post that is a recap. The original post really isnt the best example of the changes that have been made to the idea. |
Astroniomix
Cryptic Meta-4
531
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 04:59:00 -
[208] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Stealth nerf cloak thread.
Tssk tssk tssk.
You baddies... Yes it would seem I have angered a few here with an idea. I really should make a post that is a recap. The original post really isnt the best example of the changes that have been made to the idea. Just edit the OP |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1442
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 06:23:00 -
[209] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Gun, I believe there are more people concerned about it than you are willing to admit. I would guess many of them choose to ignore the forums though, cause they know that most of the time it just ends up in a flame war.
No, I really don't think there are. And regardless, it still isn't an issue. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15035
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 08:26:00 -
[210] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Again you bring up someone sitting in system without a cloak. You are more than welcome to try but it tends to not to work well. Who said anything about sitting in a system? Oh and this other method works well even now. But let's not forget those sitting in a pos and the station, have a psychological effect on others.
Behr Oroo wrote:No, you seem far more interested in trying to poke holes in my character than the actual topic at hand.
As for your questions on intel. Again you attempt to deflect the topic by eventually boiling the questions down to some form of personal attack implying I cant handle a possible invasion or I am not suppose to be in null. I ask because it's relevant. To live and thrive in null, requires a certain mindset. It also means understanding game mechanics and how to use them against your enemy. The better the mind set and understanding, the more you will thrive. I ask those questions because I really don't see anyone with this as an issue, having those things in abundance. Also the you is a universal you, encompassing all those with this supposed issue. I'm not really interested in you (singular) per se, as it's all about the game.
Although I will point out when I think someone is being disingenuous.
Behr Oroo wrote:But to answer your questions. Absolutely they should gain the intel they work for. I dont think its unfair to be able to fight back against this.
I could be wrong but I do feel you have ignored several parts of my suggestion, as the original post was just the start of an idea that has grown, an in several areas to the benifit of the cloakies. There is nothing stopping you fighting back with intel. Do you honestly think the only way to combat intel gathering, is through being able to de-cloak and kill them? Misinformation is a very viable tool, for it hits at the heart of that gathering operation.
As far as your new suggestions are concerned, I really don't feel the need to go over old ground. You admitted yourself you don't really understand the mechanics at play. Changing more with the same poor understanding isn't helpful. The thing is, eve players are very very good at thinking outside the box. Hence why you would still have issues with AFK people in your current system, if this was implemented.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
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