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Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
435
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 06:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
So tomorrow the Supreme Court Of The United States will decide if me and my Partner of three years will have full and equal rights under US law. I truly envy countries like Canada and other like minded Countries that already granted these protections and freedoms the most recent being France.
I'm not getting my hopes up on this. The night Proposition 8 was passed (Prop 8 was the California law passed by voters to outlaw same sex marriage after it was already granted by State Courts.) I was devastated as were many other people. I've marched, protested, donated, and campaigned over the past five years in hopes one day this would be struck down.
Yeah I'm a forum warrior at times and I mostly joke or make sarcastic remarks or gloat in space pixels going poof. But there's an element to everyone that I rather enjoy seeing in people whom I fly with.
Anyways. In seven hours, 48 minutes we'll know the decision. With the courts ruling on the Voting Rights Act earlier today I'm very skeptical at how broad this ruling with go on Prop 8 and DOMA. It's a coin toss really. There are so many variables and outcomes it's anyone's guess.
What's truly sad is the level of discrimination I've observed at people over the years not just LGBT folks. But those of other minorities from the elderly, to the disabled, to those of different color skin or beliefs it's shocking just how deep seated the roots of prejudice go here.
If anyone's rights are up for a vote what about them? What about you? What if the majority of people deemed it fit that African Americans could no longer vote in California? Or that those of different skin color couldn't marry? Interracial marriages were only granted nationally 13 years ago finally with Alabama voting to overturn it's outdated ban on people of different skin colors marrying.
I guess we'll see tomorrow. I'm spinning my wheels here waiting. Kinda curious is anyone else here as anxious as I am or directly effected? Anyways... if I do have the ability to marry tomorrow you better believe I'll be as miserable as the rest of you |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
22667
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 07:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
If it doesn't work can you come to the place you had a war against to get your freedoms with to get married then go back over? Or would the US not recognise a marriage in the UK as legal?
Our conservatives are in government and their arguments against gay marriage boiled down to can we get on with it and address the economy already? I don't think I will ever understand the big fuss about it over there, and I watch Bill Maher and The Daily show and I still can't grasp the logic.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
Kult Altol
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
508
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 07:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Since I'm a raging bigot according to the left, all I'm going to say is that is a very divisive subject.
And, the right is only a speed bump to the left, so you'll get what you want eventually. An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind. -irregardless, I'm with Yolo Swaggins, and the followship of the bling.-á |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
435
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 07:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:If it doesn't work can you come to the place you had a war against to get your freedoms with to get married then go back over? Or would the US not recognise a marriage in the UK as legal?
Our conservatives are in government and their arguments against gay marriage boiled down to can we get on with it and address the economy already? I don't think I will ever understand the big fuss about it over there, and I watch Bill Maher and The Daily show and I still can't grasp the logic.
The issue is it varies State by State. At the moment Federal rights to gay couples are non existent due to DOMA (Defense Of marriage Act) meaning that even IF you get married legally in a State that provides it such as Iowa or Vermont, the Federal benefits such a filing joint tax returns, asset protections in the event a spouse dies, Social Security, etc are NOT granted since the federal government only at the moment recognizes heterosexual marriages as receiving full federal benefits.
So in the short term in would do no good since even if say California recognized my out of Country marriage the Federal Government would not. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
436
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 07:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kult Altol wrote:Since I'm a raging bigot according to the left, all I'm going to say is that is a very divisive subject.
And, the right is only a speed bump to the left, so you'll get what you want eventually.
I feel human rights have no political affiliation. As a Veteran I swore to defend the Constitution and our legally binding documents that state All men are equal and endowed with inalienable rights. It doesn't matter what your political view ALL men are equal.
I also feel bitter with what you stated as merely "getting what I want." As if I'm robbing someone else of their Freedoms and Protections. Far from it. You have no clue what it's like rushing your loved one to the ER only to find out your insurance doesn't cover them because you both aren't legally married.
I'm still paying the seven thousand dollar hospital bill because of it... |
Kult Altol
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
508
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 07:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Kult Altol wrote:Since I'm a raging bigot according to the left, all I'm going to say is that is a very divisive subject.
And, the right is only a speed bump to the left, so you'll get what you want eventually. I feel human rights have no political affiliation. As a Veteran I swore to defend the Constitution and our legally binding documents that state All men are equal and endowed with inalienable rights. It doesn't matter what your political view ALL men are equal. I also feel bitter with what you stated as merely "getting what I want." As if I'm robbing someone else of their Freedoms and Protections. Far from it. You have no clue what it's like rushing your loved one to the ER only to find out your insurance doesn't cover them because you both aren't legally married. I'm still paying the seven thousand dollar hospital bill because of it...
Unfortunately it has morphed and into a political battle, but as I stated before, the meta picture is that the left is far more active then the right. We have a leftist president, frankly I'm surprised he hasn't abolished DOMA yet. Or did what he did in Arizona and change there state laws about identification. But I digress, good luck! An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind. -irregardless, I'm with Yolo Swaggins, and the followship of the bling.-á |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
436
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 07:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kult Altol wrote:Tara Read wrote:Kult Altol wrote:Since I'm a raging bigot according to the left, all I'm going to say is that is a very divisive subject.
And, the right is only a speed bump to the left, so you'll get what you want eventually. I feel human rights have no political affiliation. As a Veteran I swore to defend the Constitution and our legally binding documents that state All men are equal and endowed with inalienable rights. It doesn't matter what your political view ALL men are equal. I also feel bitter with what you stated as merely "getting what I want." As if I'm robbing someone else of their Freedoms and Protections. Far from it. You have no clue what it's like rushing your loved one to the ER only to find out your insurance doesn't cover them because you both aren't legally married. I'm still paying the seven thousand dollar hospital bill because of it... Unfortunately it has morphed and into a political battle, but as I stated before, the meta picture is that the left is far more active then the right. We have a leftist president, frankly I'm surprised he hasn't abolished DOMA yet. Or did what he did in Arizona and change there state laws about identification. But I digress, good luck!
Obama is actually more Centrist and an opportunist at times when it comes to issues. The LGBT people have been thrown under the bus by Democrats recently just in the Immigration Reform Amendments and it seems that Politicians only give a **** about their constituents when it's "convenient."
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Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
22667
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 07:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Obama is fairly right wing from the perspective of most people outside the US, the Democrats are right of our right wing in any case, look at the wording of the Healthcare act and compare it to the wording of similar legislation in Russia, the UK, France and Japan. 7 grand for a medical bill? How the hell did that happen?
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
436
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 07:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:Obama is fairly right wing from the perspective of most people outside the US, the Democrats are right of our right wing in any case, look at the wording of the Healthcare act and compare it to the wording of similar legislation in Russia, the UK, France and Japan. 7 grand for a medical bill? How the hell did that happen?
My Partner was doubled over in pain one night and ended up vomiting from the pain. we thought it could be Pancreatic issues or something worse. So I rushed him to the ER. When we got there I presented my Insurance card (I have full coverage through my work) in which I was denied extending care to him.
Regardless we had to get him treated. It was sickening. Here we were sitting trying to barter for coverage as he was doubled over. Turns out it was a massive Kidney Stone. The ran him through a scanning machine (three times and we were never told the cost) which cost a thousand dollars a scan....
Then the bill came which totaled 7,000 dollars for them telling us he had a Kidney Stone...
Had he been covered under my insurance we would have to pay a paltry 20 dollar co pay... |
Mizhir
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
25688
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 09:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
It is often hard for me to believe how much the welleducated and wellinformed people who are supposed to run the country can be so much against gay rights. But then again, I am from a country that is one of the leading when it comes to gay rights.
I hope the best for you and your partner and the thousands of people who suffer from others' wrong beliefs. We will never forget you Saede!
I bet you dont see things like this so often in EVE |
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Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
22692
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 09:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Being well educated has the side benefit of knowing how to word things and make the right arguments to those that are not. They probably don't care either way on a personal level, but they know what does get them elected to deal with the things that they do personally care about.
Also we don't care about gay rights here because we don't really care that much about peoples sexuality from what I've experienced, the arguments here are about semantics with regards to use of the word marriage due to civil partnerships covering all tax bases already.
And no offence, but the US health system sounds third world. No seriously, the only single nation in the developed world not to have a national healthcare system.
Isn't Medicaid supposed to take a big chunk of the tab of these expensive operations anyway in a critical scenario like your partners?
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
Kult Altol
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
508
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 09:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:It is often hard for me to believe how much the welleducated and wellinformed people who are supposed to run the country can be so much against gay rights. But then again, I am from a country that is one of the leading when it comes to gay rights.
I hope the best for you and your partner and the thousands of people who suffer from others' wrong beliefs.
There is a huge gulf between intelligence and wisdom. Just because some one is well educated doesn't mean they will make sound decisions.
The issue I have with gay "marriage" is not that same sexes unite. I am a libertarian in this regard. However, I am against is redefining words to affirm rights to people. Government should not that much power to redefine words on how they feel.
There is this thing called a domestic partner ship. It affirms all the same rights as a hetero couple. To me its like having a GED (General education degree) they are both the same in the end, and if someone looks down on a person for what document they have, they need to reevaluate them selves. This is coming from a dedicated Christian, er bigot.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind. -irregardless, I'm with Yolo Swaggins, and the followship of the bling.-á |
Mizhir
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
25692
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 09:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
I am aware that well educated doesn't nescessarily mean intelligent, but when looking at what causes hate and prejudices it is often lack of knowledge about the other part. We will never forget you Saede!
I bet you dont see things like this so often in EVE |
Kult Altol
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
509
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 09:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:I am aware that well educated doesn't nescessarily mean intelligent, but when looking at what causes hate and prejudices it is often lack of knowledge about the other part.
Like all things the hate and prejudices are way blown out of proportion by the media. Its all the stations too, its not just Fox news.
In my whole entire life (27) years. I have never meet anyone that genuinely hates homosexuals. I work in the military as well, so you meet all sorts of people. An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind. -irregardless, I'm with Yolo Swaggins, and the followship of the bling.-á |
Mizhir
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
25693
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 09:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yet the majority don't accept equal rights? We will never forget you Saede!
I bet you dont see things like this so often in EVE |
Kult Altol
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
509
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 10:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Yet the majority don't accept equal rights?
I can't speak the majority.
But, as the populations shift demographics and religion continues to decline the opposition will have their way. I can't imagine in the next 10 years conservatives will still be opposing gay marriage if that battle still exists.
Even some great conservative leaders are changing their stance on immigration. Soon enough they will change their stance on homosexuals. Its inevitable. and unfortunalty in my experience in arguing politics, if you oppose something the argument devolves into ad hominen attacks. An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind. -irregardless, I'm with Yolo Swaggins, and the followship of the bling.-á |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
18115
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 11:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
I was going to pop in and express my support for the thread, but unfortunately this thread devolved quickly from discussing the issues at hand, like just what exactly happened with Prop 8 to get us here.
Instead we have political bickering.....just like Washington DC.
Discourse Is Dead. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
22744
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 11:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Seems to be more a culture and values dissonance from both sides of the Atlantic.
We don't really... get it.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
Reiisha
Evolution The Retirement Club
308
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 11:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Obama is actually more Centrist and an opportunist at times when it comes to issues. The LGBT people have been thrown under the bus by Democrats recently just in the Immigration Reform Amendments and it seems that Politicians only give a **** about their constituents when it's "convenient."
This, a thousand times this.
In the US, politicians always pander to what turns out to be the largest and most vocal population in the country: Fundamentalist Christians. Abortion, euthanasia, gay rights, stemcell research - We could have been decades ahead if that group didn't thwart their development at every turn :/
That verdict should be coming soon and i hope progress is made sooner rather than later. With the US claiming to be 'an example for the Western world' it's ridiculous that they insist on lagging behind everyone else on such issues.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
18116
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 12:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Tara Read wrote:Obama is actually more Centrist and an opportunist at times when it comes to issues. The LGBT people have been thrown under the bus by Democrats recently just in the Immigration Reform Amendments and it seems that Politicians only give a **** about their constituents when it's "convenient." This, a thousand times this. In the US, politicians always pander to what turns out to be the largest and most vocal population in the country: Fundamentalist Christians. Abortion, euthanasia, gay rights, stemcell research - We could have been decades ahead if that group didn't thwart their development at every turn :/ That verdict should be coming soon and i hope progress is made sooner rather than later. With the US claiming to be 'an example for the Western world' it's ridiculous that they insist on lagging behind everyone else on such issues.
2 Words: Texas Senate (last night)
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Anna Hathaway
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2013.06.26 12:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:... My Partner was doubled over in pain one night and ended up vomiting from the pain. we thought it could be Pancreatic issues or something worse. So I rushed him to the ER. When we got there I presented my Insurance card (I have full coverage through my work) in which I was denied extending care to him. ... Even in a heterosexual marriage you can't just show up in a hospital and plunk down your insurance card expecting your spouse to be covered. You have to go through the paperwork and your spouse's name must be registered as a covered party by the insurance company.
The real problem is that many states allow the employers to prevent you going through the paperwork to cover a partner. You should be allowed this. But that is not marriage. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
22773
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 12:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: 2 Words: Texas Senate (last night)
Looked this up.
Not gonna lie, but I can't say I disagree with strict regulation of practices.
New York Times, Manny Fernandez wrote:The bill would ban abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy, require abortion clinics to meet the same standards that hospital-style surgical centers do, and mandate that a doctor who performs abortions have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital.
That... doesn't sound too bad really. As I understand it current medical technology is greatly increasing the point at which a fetus is viable outside of the womb and encroaching on the area of potential transplants for carriage to term. Adoption centres exist too.
It's a complicated issue I haven't fully made my mind up on.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
18164
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 13:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Anna Hathaway wrote: You have to go through the paperwork and your spouse's name must be registered as a covered party by the insurance company.
Even this is not an option for partnered same-sex couples. Insurance companies do not let you just 'cover' what to them is just a random stranger. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
18164
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 13:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: 2 Words: Texas Senate (last night)
Looked this up. Not gonna lie, but I can't say I disagree with strict regulation of practices. New York Times, Manny Fernandez wrote:The bill would ban abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy, require abortion clinics to meet the same standards that hospital-style surgical centers do, and mandate that a doctor who performs abortions have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital. That... doesn't sound too bad really. As I understand it current medical technology is greatly increasing the point at which a fetus is viable outside of the womb and encroaching on the area of potential transplants for carriage to term. Adoption centres exist too. It's a complicated issue I haven't fully made my mind up on.
The problem, Kirjava, is that the Texas legislation would ban it after 20 weeks EVEN IF THE WOMAN'S LIFE IS IN DANGER.
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Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
22852
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Posted - 2013.06.26 13:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: The problem, Kirjava, is that the Texas legislation would ban it after 20 weeks EVEN IF THE WOMAN'S LIFE IS IN DANGER.
Please. Please say you made that up. Thats an abomination not to do that. I think even in many Islamic nations that its allowed under that scenario.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
18196
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 13:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: The problem, Kirjava, is that the Texas legislation would ban it after 20 weeks EVEN IF THE WOMAN'S LIFE IS IN DANGER.
Please. Please say you made that up. Thats an abomination not to do that. I think even in many Islamic nations that its allowed under that scenario.
That's the thing about these Fundie-led causes. They are blind to all rationale and reality.
Also, I know personally what it's like having the government telling me I can't do something that is an integral part of my own personal business. |
Anna Hathaway
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 14:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
I imagine the OP should be able to sleep now: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-doma-supreme-court-ruling-20130626,0,6846934.story |
Kult Altol
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
514
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 14:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Kirjava wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: The problem, Kirjava, is that the Texas legislation would ban it after 20 weeks EVEN IF THE WOMAN'S LIFE IS IN DANGER.
Please. Please say you made that up. Thats an abomination not to do that. I think even in many Islamic nations that its allowed under that scenario. That's the thing about these Fundie-led causes. They are blind to all rationale and reality. Also, I know personally what it's like having the government telling me I can't do something that is an integral part of my own personal business.
Generalize much? This is why debates devolve into name calling. Or in other words, "This is why we can't have nice things"
http://crossfitfire.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/nice-things-cat.jpg An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind. -irregardless, I'm with Yolo Swaggins, and the followship of the bling.-á |
Kult Altol
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
515
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 14:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The problem, Kirjava, is that the Texas legislation would ban it after 20 weeks EVEN IF THE WOMAN'S LIFE IS IN DANGER.
Been trying to find this in the law, can't find it anywhere. Where is the source? An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind. -irregardless, I'm with Yolo Swaggins, and the followship of the bling.-á |
Miss Piggy
Piggy Love Shack
93
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 15:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Kult Altol wrote:Since I'm a raging bigot according to the left, all I'm going to say is that is a very divisive subject.
And, the right is only a speed bump to the left, so you'll get what you want eventually. I feel human rights have no political affiliation. As a Veteran I swore to defend the Constitution and our legally binding documents that state All men are equal and endowed with inalienable rights. It doesn't matter what your political view ALL men are equal. I also feel bitter with what you stated as merely "getting what I want." As if I'm robbing someone else of their Freedoms and Protections. Far from it. You have no clue what it's like rushing your loved one to the ER only to find out your insurance doesn't cover them because you both aren't legally married. I'm still paying the seven thousand dollar hospital bill because of it...
Your choice if you opted to get your **** removed and the op went wrong.... That makes you the b.i.t.c.h in your messed up relationship.
Messed up relationship not in a religious sense more a oh dear yours is a rather evolutionary faux pas event.
All someone needs to do is ban same sex from adopting or artificial means of procreation and jobs a good un.
Nature has a way of sorting these things out though........
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