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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.11.26 07:49:00 -
[1]
In RP terms, how do our cargo holds work? Specifically, in space, when you're 1500 meters away from something you can pull it into your cargo hold. How does that happen? Is it a tractor beam? Robotic arm? Grappling hook? Huge electromagnet or graviton generator? Little tiny drones that grab things and carry them back?
It's not like everyone can simply stick his 2000-meter-long prehensile ***** out there and grab it like I can.
--------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk |
Deviana Sevidon
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Posted - 2005.11.26 13:15:00 -
[2]
I had always imagined, there is some kind of tractor-beam installed in your ship. The same tractor-beam is being used by mining drones on an asteroid and to scoop drones into the drone-bay.
About the cargo-expanders. Maybe they create an area of folded time and space inside your cargohold. This way you have more space for storing goods while not increasing the overall size of the ship, but this folded time and space also needs power and cpu to maintain.
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.11.26 15:41:00 -
[3]
Puts on emo glasses
Well I think that the reason you can pull things in from 1,500 meters away is through most likely some kind of tractor beam or grappling hook.
The cargo expanders just fit onto the low module slots and are just attachable mini-cargoholds. As to why they increase through a percentage, I am unsure. -----------------------------------
----------------------------------- Get you the hot lasers of gank omen to die! |
Triana Dalrathan
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Posted - 2005.11.26 21:29:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Pulgor Puts on emo glasses
The cargo expanders just fit onto the low module slots and are just attachable mini-cargoholds. As to why they increase through a percentage, I am unsure.
My best guess would be that the expanders are a flexible type material that uses the atmosphere inside the main cargohold to inflate and hold rigid. Which explains why the increase would be a percentage of the whole. the Bigger the main hold, the more atmospere, therefore the greater the expanded space when moving the same expander from a frigate to a destroyer, and then from a destroyer to a battleship.
As for the reason I think the cargohold has an atmosphere....well we've all carried living things in our holds, be it livestock, slaves, marines or exotic dancers :D
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.11.27 04:00:00 -
[5]
I think I like the grappling hook idea. As much as I love Star Trek, I don't think the tractor beam has much of a place in EVE.
As for the expanders...well, that's a damnded confusing question. Just like the question of how a medium antimatter charge will fit a 150mm barrel, a 200mm barrel, and a 250mm barrel, but will NOT fit a 150mm barrel in a single-barreled railgun or a 250mm barrel in a double-barreled railgun.
--------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk |
Eridicus
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Posted - 2005.11.27 15:10:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Eridicus on 27/11/2005 15:11:12 I thought I read that the mining lasers work by pulverising the ore and drawing it back to the ship within the confinement of the beams. I could easily see that principal applying to the retrieving of items into the cargo bay (and how drones retrieve ore as well).
I imagine with the energy used by the mining lasers, just for drilling ore, that using a tractor beam to stop a moving target would require more energy than is conventially available and hense why more offensive or defensive modules aren't available.
As for cargo expanders, I imagine that with the drone and assembly technology available that a retrofit to add the extra space provided by the module is easy enough to acomplish. As for percentage, each ship has design considerations, and you can't exceed your limitations.
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Gothikia
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Posted - 2005.11.27 22:18:00 -
[7]
A while back, just when EXODUS launched, i believe that the Cargo Expander descriptions said something along the lines of, "Increases cargo capacity by removing unused space and bulkheads, formally used by ship crews." And since we're all pod pilots anyways, who needs crew space when you dont have one, lol. -- Gothikia |
Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.11.27 23:02:00 -
[8]
For the millionth time, WE HAVE A CREW!!!
Read the BACKSTORY, and THEN post!
I'm sorry to be harsh, but this is the millionth time I've seen this comment, even AFTER CCP has settled it once and for all by making Hands of a Killer into Prime Fiction.
--------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk |
Cvoboda
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Posted - 2005.11.28 03:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari For the millionth time, WE HAVE A CREW!!!
Read the BACKSTORY, and THEN post!
I'm sorry to be harsh, but this is the millionth time I've seen this comment, even AFTER CCP has settled it once and for all by making Hands of a Killer into Prime Fiction.
Frigs don't come w/ a crew. Maybe she's talking about frigates. That's what I'm going to say she means. Then again, I give too many people the benifit of the doubt.
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Silver Night
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Posted - 2005.11.29 00:14:00 -
[10]
Some frigates have crews, Merlin and Punisher for example. However, you are both right, the cargo could be expanded by removing crew quarters, because it is a much smaller crew than was formerly needed. So, you ditch those extra quarters in favor of more cargo. Beauty of this is that it would increase with ship size, although to be technical I don't htink it would work out with quit the propotions that exsist. Cargo is around 1:4 difference Frig to BS, crew is about 1:1500 or more. That assumes a lot, but the huge difference certainly allows for a lot of assumptions, huh? ------------------ Silver Night Director -Production and Science
Drink Starsi! Join 'The Summit' in game RP channel. |
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Wanoah
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Posted - 2005.11.29 03:01:00 -
[11]
Well, there must be some kind of field technology involved. If you can master the technique of repelling projectiles and energy using an invisible barrier and artificial gravity, then it's probably a baby step using the same laws to manipulate objects using invisible forces too. The whole area opens up quite a few possibilities. Automatically manoevring ships inside stations and on final approach for docking (hence giving up control when we just get near the station) is one example. I'm betting that there will be clubs and bars where they mess around with the gravity too...Hell, I'd go to a bar that was in permanent zero G! Just getting a round of drinks in would be a laugh.
So yeah, some kind of field that is a refined version of whatever they use to make gravity with.
If anything, cargo holds are far too small for the sizes of our ships. Well, maybe frigs are fine, but the larger ships: just what are they full of that takes up so much room?
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Burga Galti
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Posted - 2005.11.29 11:14:00 -
[12]
Cargo expanders reduce the space the cargo takes in your hold as opposed to increasing the actual size of the hold. The space displayed is a 'virtual' term. Every atom has a lot of space in it between the protons & electrons, using an advanced form of compression the very atoms of something could be compressed down so that it's volume decreases.
Think "Honey, I shrunk the kids".
As for hauling in things from 1500m away, I'd imagine some mechanical method (robotic arm with a net attached or something) rather as a tractor beam. As for the actual range of 1500m I consider that to be a bit extreme and probably a simple gameplay issue. **************** Pain is a way of knowing yourself; Death is the ultimate in self-discovery.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.11.29 11:24:00 -
[13]
I definitely like Wanoah's idea for the cargo hold best. It also explains why the expanders require slots and power and all that.
--------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk |
Silver Night
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Posted - 2005.11.29 23:47:00 -
[14]
I always figured they were a physical expansion, along with the associated machinery(Life support etc) and maybe field technology for gravity and containment and stuff.
As to hold size, think on the fact that we are working in three dimensional space. 1m x 1m x 1m is 1m3, but 3 x 3 x 3 is 27 and 4^3 is 64. So some ships, especially Industrials, should ahve much larger holds, even accounting for extremely thick hulls and other things inside. Hundreds of thousands of m3 at the very least. Thats for a different discussion though.
I always figured a tractor beam, or possibly even jsut some sort of magnetic grapple for cargo cans. I would be assuming that you ahve to access the can directly, rather than open it from 1500m away though, so you are actually linking up with the can, rather than just remotely pulling stuff out of it. ------------------ Silver Night Director -Production and Science
Drink Starsi! Join 'The Summit' in game RP channel. |
Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.11.30 02:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari ...require slots and power and all that...
They only require the slot, not power nor CPU. (same like nanofibers and overdrive injectors).
On the how do you reach that floating cargo out there... after watching the Star War Destroyer picking up rebel scum, there is no other way than the tractor beam!
(Some directed gravity field, i would bet)
Barriers - an EVE novel |
Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.11.30 16:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Herko Kerghans They only require the slot, not power nor CPU. (same like nanofibers and overdrive injectors).
Ooops.
Originally by: Herko Kerghans EDIT: seems it IS a gravity field.
That's a module. I would imagine that we wouldn't have a module that does something our ship already does. That really reinforces my idea of a mechanical grapple or something.
--------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk |
Jon Anser
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Posted - 2005.12.30 09:25:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Jon Anser on 30/12/2005 09:25:40 Now the real thing we should be asking ourselves is how can a tiny jet can hold a metric f**kload and still be so tiny? Is it some sort of extradimentional portal? Perhaps it should be a bag inflated that gets inflated as cargo is put into it.
Teh Goose is teh PWn |
Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.12.30 10:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jon Anser metric f**kload
My new favorite unit of measurement.
Is it some sort of extradimentional portal? I don't remember what it is precisely, but I think there's some kind of quantum technology that allows you to put more stuff inside it than the volume of the can itself....which has something to do with the reason why you can't put one inside another. ----------------------------------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw |
BrerLapin
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Posted - 2005.12.31 22:57:00 -
[19]
If you take a cargo container & attempt to put it into another in your Industrials docking bay it names the field used to compress the items.
You cannot put frozen food & people inside these fields apparently.
Gravity manipulation would be the best bet in regards to this as the ship engines & shields seems to use these principles. It could even be a limited form of warp manipulation but the implications of point to point transfer is mebbe to high a technology level. The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum - O'Toole's Corollary of Finagle's Law |
Tsual
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Posted - 2006.01.02 15:05:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tsual on 02/01/2006 15:06:14 In Forsaken Ruins story salvage drones are mentioned, however then the author adds that those are only pirate technology and entirely not available in empire.
Like the "invisible" camera drones those would have answered this question.
(If you can't see something, like floating crews or remnants of destroyed ships it means that the pod interface decided to blind them out - at least that is my imagination.)
-------------------------------------- Haanem ulwei, utnazhiram Hal'sha'roh mahiraam Hor'thul.
The Universe is everything, the creation Hal'shah and the destruction Hor'thul.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.01.03 08:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tsual If you can't see something, like floating crews or remnants of destroyed ships it means that the pod interface decided to blind them out - at least that is my imagination.
That's good enough for me! ----------------------------------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw |
BrerLapin
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Posted - 2006.01.03 12:10:00 -
[22]
Denial is not just a river in Egypt :p
Yeah you guys are forgetting that Armour & the structure to hold it is actually massive & the more crew a ship carries the more space they require.
In addition to this we dont know how the engines work so the engines may actually require more bulk to project yet more bulk. Which makes titans just really big frigates ;D. The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum - O'Toole's Corollary of Finagle's Law |
Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.01.03 21:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: BrerLapin In addition to this we dont know how the engines work
I think I once explained how all of the engines worked, except for the magpulse engines, which we discussed and worked out a fairly decent explanation of. Please don't make me do it again. ----------------------------------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw |
ThaMa Gebir
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Posted - 2006.01.06 08:16:00 -
[24]
Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 06/01/2006 08:17:28 Ok well in the case of the cargo containers they have what is known as a "Planck Generator" built in.
Basically it means that it creates a distortion of space and time within itself and therefore the bigger the can the more you can fit into it for the volume you use.
Cargo expanders I imagine work on the same principle however they are "built into" the ship as a hardpoint module (low slots anyone) and thus turning the cargo hold of your ship into a massive planck generator but much more stable (otherwise biological forms and perishables would not survive). Also that would explain the cost of some cargo expanders (20m+ ppl) that increase the cargo by a percentage.
With respect to the op. I believe they have a miniature tractor beam that drags the cargo container into the hold when within 1.5km from target.
Edit; typos and grammar.
"Hammerhead: Boobies."
LOL
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.01.06 10:53:00 -
[25]
I love your sig Gebir...I remember that thread "Eris: Official Winner of EVE" about the new Gallente Interdictor being named Eris, and how they tried to explain the process of naming EVE ships. So damned funny. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! |
Clarette L'Vasseur
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Posted - 2006.01.06 13:05:00 -
[26]
Now something else to ponder.
How do cargo containers capacitate people? Or cargo holds for that matter.
------------------------- "Amour faict beaucoup, mais argent faict tout." |
Wanoah
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Posted - 2006.01.06 13:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Clarette L'Vasseur Now something else to ponder.
How do cargo containers capacitate people? Or cargo holds for that matter.
-------------------------
Cargo holds are or at least can be pressurised I imagine. Depends on what you need to carry. If you have raw tritanium in your hold you probably want it unpressurised due to the volatility at atmospheric pressures (or temperatures as it says in the description). If you need to accomodate passengers, then you can pressurise as required.
Having said that, why would passengers take up cargo space at all? Why can they not be housed in the habitable areas of the ship. There is a hidden passengers attribute for all ships, so there is passenger accomodation. Maybe we use the passenger areas of the ships as extra cargo space to get the maximum usage out of our ships?
As for the jet cans, well they are pretty flimsy. I suppose that the can breaks up long before running out of oxygen becomes an issue.
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Filan
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:12:00 -
[28]
id imagine for moving things around inside the hold itself its like an automated warehouse we have in reality. the computer just knows where each slot is and what items are there. maybe this is why a badger Mk2 has 1150cpu, the computer needs to keep track of stuff in what is basicly a flying warehouse.
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Filan
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:15:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Filan on 06/01/2006 15:15:08 snip, lag doublepost
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.01.06 18:05:00 -
[30]
It has a high CPU output so it can run EW to defend itself. Check out the descriptions, Badgers (1 or 2) are supposed to be the most defensible T1 indies. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! |
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