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Adunh Slavy
1056
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Posted - 2013.06.28 17:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
It would be nice if we could make ingots of minerals. Imagine a BPO (with presumably no waste and hence no reason to ever research it) capable of creating an ingot of 10,000 units of a mineral at 1/4th of the volume. These ingots could then be reprocessed and used as normal minerals.
Yeah yeah, I know, rumor mill says compression and reprocessing has a change on the way. Consider this an idea in opposition to the perhaps looming whine storm. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
179
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Posted - 2013.06.28 17:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote: It would be nice if we could make ingots of minerals. Imagine a BPO (with presumably no waste and hence no reason to ever research it) capable of creating an ingot of 10,000 units of a mineral at 1/4th of the volume. These ingots could then be reprocessed and used as normal minerals.
Yeah yeah, I know, rumor mill says compression and reprocessing has a change on the way. Consider this an idea in opposition to the perhaps looming whine storm.
Change "ingot" to "T1 large guns" and you'll have you system with much higher compression rate than 1/4 that is widely used atm. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Manfred Hideous
TOHOKU 9.0
31
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Posted - 2013.06.28 17:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote: It would be nice if we could make ingots of minerals. Imagine a BPO (with presumably no waste and hence no reason to ever research it) capable of creating an ingot of 10,000 units of a mineral at 1/4th of the volume. These ingots could then be reprocessed and used as normal minerals.
Yeah yeah, I know, rumor mill says compression and reprocessing has a change on the way. Consider this an idea in opposition to the perhaps looming whine storm.
I like the idea of compressed minerals but waste is a way in which moving an ingot or whatever 1/2 to 1/4 the size balanced. |
Adunh Slavy
1056
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Posted - 2013.06.28 17:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote: Change "ingot" to "T1 large guns" and you'll have your system but with much higher compression rate than 1/4 that is widely used atm.
Rumor Mill says that some sort of compression and reprocessing change is coming. I suspect that CCP is going to try and 'encourage', by way of increased cost in reprocessing, be it time, waste or ISK, more raw material and manufacturing in null sec.
There will still be a strong need to compress and export from high sec to null, and still lots of incentive to export high ends from null to high sec. So perhaps what would be useful is an intermediate step that is properly sanctioned and designed for just this purpose instead of the kludge of using other things like T1 guns and moon probes, passive scanners et al.
Agreeably some items are far better than 1:4 ratio today, but tomorrow, who knows. |
Adunh Slavy
1056
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Posted - 2013.06.28 17:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Manfred Hideous wrote: I like the idea of compressed minerals but waste is a way in which moving an ingot or whatever 1/2 to 1/4 the size balanced.
Not sure I quite understood that sentance, are you suggesting that the ingot BPO does have some waste? |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
563
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Posted - 2013.06.28 18:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
The whole point of CCP messing around with so-called compression and also messing around with reprocessing (if these things happen) is to reduce the effectiveness of exporting from high to null. They're going around tweaking things to encourage null to be more self-sufficient, or to at least attempt to be so that remaining barriers to self-sufficiency can be identified and evaluated.
If I understand this proposal correctly, you basically want to circumvent these attempts with a new item specifically designed to facilitate compression? |
Adunh Slavy
1057
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Posted - 2013.06.28 18:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote: If I understand this proposal correctly, you basically want to circumvent these attempts with a new item specifically designed to facilitate compression?
Yes and no.
For starters we only have rumors right now. What form any changes will take is something we just do not know at this time. If they, CCP, propose a giant nerf of some kind, they're going to get some negative feed back. Something like this could alleviate that feed back. For all we know, whatever they are proposing is going to impact all of Eve, not just null.
Let's suppose they use a giant nerf bat and just kill reprocessing to the tune of 90% or 100% waste or just remove it completely, who knows. I think it would cause a few people to complain. But perhaps complain less if something like ingots existed that could specifically be reprocessed with no waste.
If they changed how reprocessing worked on manufactured items, this would free CCP with regards to cleaning up some of the loot table and meta 1-2 uselessness and allow them some room with regards to meta 1-4 tericide type thinking. But people may still want to compress, transport and reprocess for any number of reasons. Ingots would allow for an intermediate step that could possibly allow for other steps to be taken.
In all honesty I have no idea what they are thinking, I am shooting at a moving target while wearing a blindfold. We've heard a change is coming, the tone sounded nerfish, but had no other hints. So this idea is perhaps useful or a complete waste of time, Ingots would provide more design options in other areas.
Besides, ingots could be fun. You could build a Megacyte fort in the CQ instead of using the sofa cushions. |
Aki Kaito
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.06.28 19:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
This idea is less terrible than your last one, I'll give you that. It also makes more sense than the current way minerals are compressed. Where you lose your validity is when you say what basically sounds like "CCP may be planning on nerfing compression but this will allow for people to do it anyway". |
Adunh Slavy
1057
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Posted - 2013.06.28 19:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aki Kaito wrote:This idea is less terrible than your last one, I'll give you that. It also makes more sense than the current way minerals are compressed. Where you lose your validity is when you say what basically sounds like "CCP may be planning on nerfing compression but this will allow for people to do it anyway".
Where the idea looses validity, not me. Try to keep things not personal, or someone might think you're an ass. |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1218
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Posted - 2013.06.28 19:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
See iteron mark II ( I think) for mass mineral transport. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |
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Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
179
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Posted - 2013.06.28 19:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Either all modules need to get their volume upped or mineral's lowered. I though about it and found it a bit illogical that 10m3 of metal scraps can be refined into 5000m3 of pure ore. Same with all modules, unless minerals change their density during manufacture process and regain original during refine. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Sigras
Conglomo
441
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Posted - 2013.06.28 20:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
your entire proposal is based on the hypothesis is that compression is good for the game.
Did you ever consider that CCP is trying to eliminate compression because they believe (as do I) that compression is bad for the game?
IIRC you can haul everything you need for a titan in one or two freighters with compression. I believe mineral compression and titans bridging freighters to be the number one problem with supercapital proliferation. |
Adunh Slavy
1058
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Posted - 2013.06.28 21:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sigras,
Maybe it is bad, maybe it is not bad. Maybe it is part of the reason for super cap proliferation. But to cite one thing as a cause of super cap proliferation is rather silly. Power projection is too easy and cheap, it makes having super caps that much more valuable. More to just super cap proliferation than compression.
Again, as pointed out in an earlier post in this thread, what if they whack reprocessing into oblivion and then decide it was a bad idea, or have to make an adjustment for other reasons. Something like ingots gives more options on how to deal with these issues. |
Sigras
Conglomo
441
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Posted - 2013.06.28 21:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
I never said that mineral compression is the ONLY reason for supercapital proliferation, i said that it is the number one reason
I do like your idea of compressed isotopes or compressed gas containers, but minerals are meant to be a pain to haul around; they were designed that way on purpose and they need to stay that way. I'd be in favor of removing mineral compression and freighters going through titan bridges completely.
Titan building should be difficult, not the cake walk it is today. |
Adunh Slavy
1059
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Posted - 2013.06.28 21:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Fair enough |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
180
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Posted - 2013.06.28 21:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mineral compression would and will not be needed if ccp actually fixed ORCA and RORQ, and the ORE compression mechanics.
Ideally the only compression and tools for import/export should be the industrial class ships.
The easiest way to fix this is to add a time sink to recycle and refine based on the value using universal averages.
5 million per minute on refining and 1 million per minute on recycling.
The degree of efficiency and the speed adjusted by skill and facility quality.
Rorq and Orca would both have access to inspace recycle module and compression.
Both Orca and Rorq would have both ORE and Mineral bays, but x integration sized.
ORCA: ORE-Bay 250k Mineral-Bay 50k (boostable to 500k - 100k) Rorq : Ore-Bay 50k Mineral-Bay 250k (Boosted 100k -500k)
These would have modifiers on the ship to increase speed of compression and refine.
All existing items would get the [extra] materials, and these would be recyclable within the same time sink-system. The non-extra materials would be instant scavenge recycles.
This way we could get minerals back in meta tiers to fix the drop rates properly, and get proper price finding.
Last the invention boost from metas should be fixed to be twice current, so meta-1 and meta-2 would get better into the ecology of invention.
This way compression would finally be solved, and the Rorq and ORCa, and the new industrials would become the purposed ships for this role, with a few potential exceptions.
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Adunh Slavy
1060
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Posted - 2013.06.29 02:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Caleb Ayrania wrote: Orca Stuff
If they allowed the orca to do compression, then compressed ore would take the same function.
If they do that or not ... who knows. |
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