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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.11.30 16:44:00 -
[91]
Edited by: KilROCK on 30/11/2005 16:44:49
 Originally by: Rob Boberton
Why do the combat recon ships require covert ops skill at all?? They have absolutely no special cloaking powers. It would make craploads more sense if they required signature linking IV for gallente, electronic warfare IV for caldari, etc. or just make them all require ewar IV for that matter.
If you're gonna make them require cov ops IV at least give them the useless stealth bomber cloaking bonus to make it feel a LITTLE TINY BIT like it makes sense.
Fast cloaked cruisers FTW.
Get your head out of your .. yea.. And you'll see one of the recon ship has a -90/99% reduction to covert op cloak.
Warping cloaked is better than moving faster and having to cloak on warp out. *stamps a big Ignore on your forehead*
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Rob Boberton
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Posted - 2005.11.30 16:47:00 -
[92]
Originally by: KilROCK
Edited by: KilROCK on 30/11/2005 16:44:49
Originally by: Rob Boberton
Why do the combat recon ships require covert ops skill at all?? They have absolutely no special cloaking powers. It would make craploads more sense if they required signature linking IV for gallente, electronic warfare IV for caldari, etc. or just make them all require ewar IV for that matter.
If you're gonna make them require cov ops IV at least give them the useless stealth bomber cloaking bonus to make it feel a LITTLE TINY BIT like it makes sense.
Fast cloaked cruisers FTW.
Get your head out of your .. yea.. And you'll see one of the recon ship has a -90/99% reduction to covert op cloak.
Warping cloaked is better than moving faster and having to cloak on warp out. *stamps a big Ignore on your forehead*
Perhaps if you weren't so anxious to smack talk me you would have noticed that I said COMBAT RECON ships, not FORCE RECON SHIPS. Combat recon ships get no bonus to any cloaking whatsoever. Reading comprehension much?
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.11.30 16:55:00 -
[93]
Why wouldn't they require it? So everyone can fly that class of cruisers without doing their work?
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Rob Boberton
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Posted - 2005.11.30 17:03:00 -
[94]
Originally by: KilROCK
Why wouldn't they require it? So everyone can fly that class of cruisers without doing their work?
Christ did you even read my post? I suggested that there be a different requirement in place of the covert ops one because it's stupid on that particular ship, so you've managed to get it wrong twice now. Let's see if you can go for three.
Requiring racial ewar skills for each ship instead of covert ops for all of them would be an interesting way to stop the skill once, play everywhere attitude that people have toward different classes of T2 ships now.
Barring that it would be nice to see SOME kind of "covert ops" bonus for having the "covert ops" skill requirement on the ship, like maybe an extra sig penalty reduction or speed penalty reduction or something.
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.11.30 17:07:00 -
[95]
Edited by: KilROCK on 30/11/2005 17:09:09
They've always been advertised as black op cruisers, spying-like, So i don't really see why it's such a big deal if they require BOTH covert op 4. They are recon ships, at first, The Covert op version IS the important one of the two, and why you would even train for a recon ship.
And i don't need to read your post. Because, It's the RECON SHIP SKILL itself that requires the covert op 4. So keep on whining. 
Oh and i didn't get it wrong twice, you got it all wrong from the begining because you didn't even notice Recon ship required covert op 4, it isn't a matter of which type of recon ship it is. 
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Namelesz
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Posted - 2005.11.30 19:20:00 -
[96]
OMG! A ship named the "Curse" ?!?!?!
Get an alliance formed up all using this ship! NOW!
LOL!
I must fly this ship, its in my blood.
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Warm0nger
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Posted - 2005.12.01 22:35:00 -
[97]
Will the cloak-type recon ships have a bonus to probe time, like regular covt ops ships? I didn't see the bonus listed.
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NTRabbit
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Posted - 2005.12.02 05:22:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Warm0nger
Will the cloak-type recon ships have a bonus to probe time, like regular covt ops ships? I didn't see the bonus listed.
I'm pretty certain that if you want to do some probulating, your best bet is still a covert ops frigate. No sense in letting the cruisers do their own jobs as well as all the jobs the frigates had - noone would fly them anymore.
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Alghoul
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Posted - 2005.12.02 06:09:00 -
[99]
should make cov op one need cov op l5 tbh
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.12.02 06:22:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Alghoul
should make cov op one need cov op l5 tbh
Agreed, that should replace Electronic Upgrades V
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NTRabbit
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Posted - 2005.12.02 06:24:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda
Originally by: Alghoul
should make cov op one need cov op l5 tbh
Agreed, that should replace Electronic Upgrades V
Disagree, using Covert Ops 4 keeps it in line with Assaults and Heavy Assaults.
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Ati'Kasha
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Posted - 2005.12.02 07:07:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Ati''Kasha on 02/12/2005 07:07:18
The curse basically is an upgraded Ishtar... and i mean UPGRADED.
If it has the ability to use heavy drones it will EASILY outperform an ishtar EVERYTHING apart from maybe ECM.
3 med Nos with lvl 5 Recon Ship is a grand total of 36 cap/s it sucks away and uses on itself!!
I'm having a hard time fitting nossies and reppers on my ishtar, but this'll be absolutely insane!
Why would CCP make a ship that completely rules out another one?
It's also amarrian so will probably have a load of grid to go with that 
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.12.02 07:11:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Ati'Kasha
Edited by: Ati''Kasha on 02/12/2005 07:07:18
The curse basically is an upgraded Ishtar... and i mean UPGRADED.
If it has the ability to use heavy drones it will EASILY outperform an ishtar EVERYTHING apart from maybe ECM.
3 med Nos with lvl 5 Recon Ship is a grand total of 36 cap/s it sucks away and uses on itself!!
I'm having a hard time fitting nossies and reppers on my ishtar, but this'll be absolutely insane!
Why would CCP make a ship that completely rules out another one?
It's also amarrian so will probably have a load of grid to go with that
The Curse has a weaker tank and SHOULD have weaker drones, but doens't.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
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Posted - 2005.12.02 07:27:00 -
[104]
The ishtar has double the hitpoint on his drones, Double the damage.
Drone wise, it's not going to be better than the Ishtar.
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.02 07:28:00 -
[105]
Edited by: KilROCK on 02/12/2005 07:33:43
Why the hell did i use andrea 
Edited by: Ati''Kasha on 02/12/2005 07:07:18
The curse basically is an upgraded Ishtar... and i mean UPGRADED.
It's an upgrade arbitrator without the bonus of the new Arbitrator, which are, 10% hitpoint per level, 10% drone damage per level.
Originally by: Ati'Kasha
If it has the ability to use heavy drones it will EASILY outperform an ishtar EVERYTHING apart from maybe ECM.
the curse has less armor, worse Resistance, Less powergrid. ECM wise, Recons are practicly unjammable.
Originally by: Ati'Kasha
3 med Nos with lvl 5 Recon Ship is a grand total of 36 cap/s it sucks away and uses on itself!!
I'm having a hard time fitting nossies and reppers on my ishtar, but this'll be absolutely insane!
It has less powergrid, If you fit 3 nos, that means you'll have a smaller plate or no plate at all, which means you won't even last long enough to kill the ishtar.
Originally by: Ati'Kasha
Why would CCP make a ship that completely rules out another one?
It's also amarrian so will probably have a load of grid to go with that
IF you're not even sure what the stats of a ship are, why are you compare it to the ishtar?
Go log on test server and have a look, then cry for your ishtar, The only thing it won't do better is nossing or tracking disrupting.
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Randay
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Posted - 2005.12.02 07:49:00 -
[106]
sorry but the way the ship is now it definately will outperform the ishtar. a full large shield tank backed by 10 medium nos and drones that are just as strong as the ishtars... you got your boni mixed up a bit there kilrock as the curse does have the drone bonus. maybe _you_ should be the one to jump on the test server and take a look?
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"Det hSr kan betyda krig!" |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.02 07:53:00 -
[107]
Edited by: KilROCK on 02/12/2005 07:54:34
Originally by: Randay
sorry but the way the ship is now it definately will outperform the ishtar. a full large shield tank backed by 10 medium nos and drones that are just as strong as the ishtars... you got your boni mixed up a bit there kilrock as the curse does have the drone bonus. maybe _you_ should be the one to jump on the test server and take a look?
The Bonus for hitpoint doesn't show nor does the damage one, And why would i have to 'look' when you can't tell unless you actually FLY into one.
Setup like a *****, die like one.
It can't outperform the ishtar with your setup, as the ishtar will simply kill your drones with his own.
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Randay
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Posted - 2005.12.02 07:59:00 -
[108]
im reading it right now as plain as day, the bonus shows in the description. i have no idea what you are talking about. and outperforming an ishtar does not mean winning against it in a 1v1 duel. sorry i dont want to e-peen battle my curse vs your ishtar.
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"Det hSr kan betyda krig!" |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.02 08:04:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Randay
im reading it right now as plain as day, the bonus shows in the description. i have no idea what you are talking about. and outperforming an ishtar does not mean winning against it in a 1v1 duel. sorry i dont want to e-peen battle my curse vs your ishtar.
As i pointed out before. It is an overpowered ship. If you read the topic. I said it was. I know you're not interested about the outcome of a ishtar vs curse duel, but it's only a matter of heavy drones, and the ishtar has 3 waves if he goes all out on heavies.
I'm not interested in a 'i kill your drones and you warp out' duel but that's how it would be. Ishtar would rise.
I did check the ship now, And i was so blinded by the nos bonus that i didn't even realise it was also a mini ishtar in a can but with the exception of a smaller dronebay
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Ante
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Posted - 2005.12.02 08:43:00 -
[110]
I don't know if anybody has mentioned it yet, but the bonuses look just about right if you reduce the 20%, 40% and 60% bonuses down to 5%, 10% and 15% per level.
That way you'd have 5% bonus to ECM optimal range for the Rook, 10% bonus to nos optimal range and 5% bonus to nos amount etc...
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.12.02 08:55:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Necrologic
Originally by: Ati'Kasha
Edited by: Ati''Kasha on 02/12/2005 07:07:18
The curse basically is an upgraded Ishtar... and i mean UPGRADED.
If it has the ability to use heavy drones it will EASILY outperform an ishtar EVERYTHING apart from maybe ECM.
3 med Nos with lvl 5 Recon Ship is a grand total of 36 cap/s it sucks away and uses on itself!!
I'm having a hard time fitting nossies and reppers on my ishtar, but this'll be absolutely insane!
Why would CCP make a ship that completely rules out another one?
It's also amarrian so will probably have a load of grid to go with that
The Curse has a weaker tank and SHOULD have weaker drones, but doens't.
I guess a 250% bigger drone bay has nothing to with drones right?
clueless
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Kallus Revelin
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Posted - 2005.12.02 11:34:00 -
[112]
Aaah, Weirda made me horny!
Love them amarr bonuses.
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.12.02 13:03:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Ante
I don't know if anybody has mentioned it yet, but the bonuses look just about right if you reduce the 20%, 40% and 60% bonuses down to 5%, 10% and 15% per level.
That way you'd have 5% bonus to ECM optimal range for the Rook, 10% bonus to nos optimal range and 5% bonus to nos amount etc...
That would make them inferior to HACs in most situations. Why would you buy one then? If a Huginn had only a 18km web range (with recon ships lv4), and ou had to choose a ship to go pvp against unknown numbers/types of players, what would you use? A Vaggabond or a Huginn? The answer's pretty obvious...
As for the "Curse that out-Ishtar the Ishtar" argument ,that's crap, because both the Curses and Ishtars don't come delivered with one setup. You can do all sorts of fittings with those ships, like a Curse with 1 beam/4 heavy missiles... What is the best ship depend of fittings and skills.
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.12.02 13:56:00 -
[114]
Somehow I can't believe CCP will allow the Minmatar to get away with this. haveing remove web + painter + guns? No way. I'm betting that fitting web + paint won't allow you to fit the guns any more. No way they will allow a wholly complete ship to roll of the lines of Core Complexion...
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.02 17:10:00 -
[115]
What are skills reqs tho?
Sorry if been asked already, but they requre standart HAC skills?
-=-
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.02 17:13:00 -
[116]
Cruiser 5, Covert ops 4, Signature analysis 5 iirc
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.02 17:20:00 -
[117]
Originally by: keepiru
Cruiser 5, Covert ops 4, Signature analysis 5 iirc
uh oh...cov ops isnt good...
-=-
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.02 17:27:00 -
[118]
Cruiser V
Covert Ops IV
Signature Analysis V
Spaceship Command V
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.12.02 17:31:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Meridius
I guess a 250% bigger drone bay has nothing to with drones right?
clueless
Ok. So. Erm... So the Pulse Geddon has about +1000% (arbitrary value, in reality it is much, much, more) more cargo bay for ammo compared to the Megathron. See how much difference that does? The Curse has room for 6 heavy drones, the Ishtar more, but neither can effectively field more than 6, so that makes the increased drone bay relevant in so many ways, right? It's like arguing that the Typhoon is so much better because it can carry (after patch) 2 more heavy drones than the Geddon.
After this, the decreased life span is easily weighed up by the fact that the Curse' nosferatu easily drain up to well over 25km and with an intensity stronger than heavy nosferatu. Then it also has a bonus to tracking disruptors which shouldn't be ignored. Tracking Disruptors are very potent, although with a slightly more situational value over the ECM/Dampener.
In short, the Curse must be brought in line. The very least the devs should do is to seed them on market like they've done everything else so we can test them before the last nail's struck into the coffin.
P.S. remove the launchers from Gallente, it's very ungallent-ish. We're the traditionally most turret reliant race in EVE (even more than Amarr... and I wrote that just to tease Meridius)
So. When are these forums going live in game? |
Liet Traep
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Posted - 2005.12.05 10:49:00 -
[120]
I'm a big fan of the arbitrator as many in my corp can attest to. So the Curse is a must have ship for me. Great for solo pvp or pve. I can't wait.
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