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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Michael Hickey
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2013.07.02 19:31:00 -
[61] - Quote
TehCloud wrote:Your Idea is horrible. The whole concept of EvE is about the players being in a harsh, relentless and unforgiving environment.
Everytime you undock you agree to nonconsensual pvp, so deal with it.
Agreed.
Highsec doesn't equal risk free, nor should it.
I myself don't do a lot of PvP, (because I still suck at it) and I'm really just in it to chase the ISK. But, when I move a whole bunch of ore around to get the best price that I can, I accept the risk that I can potentially get ganked, even in highsec.
Frankly, I WANT the risk. Otherwise, what's the point of even playing? I'd rather be pissed off at being ganked than be bored out of my mind! |
Michael Hickey
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 15:02:00 -
[62] - Quote
I would think of CONCORD simply as the police. They're there to enforce the laws, yes, but they don't have any obligation to protect you. Matter of fact, if you try to protect yourself in highsec, CONCORD might very well tag YOU as the criminal, and you get to say 'bye bye' to your ship for your effort. Do you want to say 'bye bye' to an expensive mining barge, and take that as a total loss? Not me! I'm a freelance industrialist. I'm not that rich!
Get insurance. The more, the better. Run if you can. Die if you must. If you got the cash, slap a bounty on the ganker. Just be prepared to accept losses in the search for profit.
But in my honest opinion, as far as the mining aspect goes, the larger threat to me is not the suicide gankers. It's the AFK miners and bots. If there's no rocks, then there's no money, and no materials for manufacturing ****. I can only get so much for ratting, and salvage, and it's barely a pittance, which leaves me planetary materials and a lot of hauling stuff around to fall back on. Otherwise, I'm hauling rock out of lowsec just to keep things going. If the New Order is willing to come my way to clean that mess up, I'm more than willing to buy a mining permit, and I'll even join in on the bumping if I'm bored enough. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10543
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Posted - 2013.07.05 15:12:00 -
[63] - Quote
The EVE economy depends on ship loss to keep turning. No one gets to be immune from losing their share of assets while still accumulating them.
1 Kings 12:11
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Michael Hickey
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2013.07.05 16:53:00 -
[64] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:The EVE economy depends on ship loss to keep turning. No one gets to be immune from losing their share of assets while still accumulating them.
Just yesterday, I lost a Venture in lowsec to rats while off being stupid. Good thing those boats are cheap, though. Besides, I feel that it's good and healthy to be slapped in the face once in a while. It keeps you from sinking into complacency, and going soft. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2301
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Posted - 2013.07.05 17:02:00 -
[65] - Quote
Posting in a 100% legit thread.
I say we vote on this one now and get the CSM pushing it ASAP!
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Swiftstrike1
Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black
98
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Posted - 2013.07.05 17:07:00 -
[66] - Quote
Stop putting up fences in my sandbox! |
Shaade Silentpaw
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.07.05 17:10:00 -
[67] - Quote
I find the risk of ganking makes usually tedious highsec tasks more exciting. It can be an enjoyable (however small) rush when ferrying valuable cargo out of/around Jita/Amarr/etc, and having to constantly watch your back when mission-running in a ship worth several billion isk again adds another element of excitement. I can see where you are coming from, players who don't want to PVP shouldn't be forced to (I suppose) - but that's just the nature of EVE. |
1Robert McNamara1
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
4
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Posted - 2013.07.05 17:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
OP, Word of advice - if you're going to produce a terrible idea and put it on the EVE-O forums for review, expect to have it mocked and laughed at. If you cannot stomach the 'trolls' then whine about hi-sec ganking somewhere else.
Other players in Eve get it. This is a dangerous game full of mean people, and the nice people enjoying the struggle against them. It's fun because that challenge exists. Eve is significant because actions have real measurable consequences. It's niche because that challenge and risk exists throughout the sandbox. You're absolutely right, there are very popular games with kiddie pools. Those games don't have player events that make the news, In those games, player actions are not significant, in those games 'gold farming' is protected by the game from the players. Those games are not significant.
That you rose to a director level of such a large organization with the notion that PVP can be or should be removed from any corner of Eve is laughable. Whoever put you there should reconsider their decision. I'd want my hi-sec mining director to embrace the cruelness of eve, not lobby for it's castration. |
Michael Hickey
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 17:55:00 -
[69] - Quote
Shaade Silentpaw wrote:I find the risk of ganking makes usually tedious highsec tasks more exciting. It can be an enjoyable (however small) rush when ferrying valuable cargo out of/around Jita/Amarr/etc, and having to constantly watch your back when mission-running in a ship worth several billion isk again adds another element of excitement. I can see where you are coming from, players who don't want to PVP shouldn't be forced to (I suppose) - but that's just the nature of EVE.
PvP is simply a part of EVE. Though you don't have to take part of it, it CAN take a part of you whether you like it or not. That aspect of the game is why I subscribe in the first place. EVE is not designed to be played like World of Warcraft, so if you take PvP out, the game will have no life to it. Highsec mining will simply be a treadmill task, best performed by bots. Actually, it's already like that now to a large extent.
Yes, I understand that some miners see the New Order as a threat. However, from my point of view, I see it as an opportunity. I'm not a fan of their evangelism, but they nevertheless have a valid point. Furthermore, their interests are not in conflict with mine. Also, 10 mil in ISK for a yearly permit? That's what? An hour's worth of mining at most on a good boat? Some people might call that extortion, but I call it good business. They clear out the bots and the AFK miners, and that leaves more rocks for those of us that play EVE legitimately. Therefore, it's a cause that's worthy of my support. |
Vrenth
Black-Talon
17
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Posted - 2013.07.05 19:51:00 -
[70] - Quote
Zah Damaja wrote:Dear Fellow Eve Players,
It is high time we end highsec ganking. PVP shoud be changed so players have the option if they want to PVP in High sec or not.
Pros: + Easier for new players to get acclimated + Industry can move freely + Less grief for those who don't want to PVP
I propose we have a flag you can turn on and off at will, this way you can PVP when you want.
Please discuss.
Zah Damaja Chief of Highsec Mining Operations Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore Southeast Division
GÇ£The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.GÇ¥ -Sun Tzu, The Art of War
It has been stated by CCP OVER and OVER. They want pvp in empire space. They don't want anywhere in eve to be devoid of risk. They want you to die in empire space if you are not paying attention or fitting your ship correctly. Every action in eve has consequences, including autopiloting your freighter without escorts and not fitting a tank capable of fending off it's value in Catalysts.
Concord is not there to protect you, and they never will be. They are there to provide consequences in an OPEN PVP ENVIRONMENT.
PS. Sorry for the caps, but the italics on these forums are hardly noticeable, and those points must be emphasized. |
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Michael Hickey
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 22:17:00 -
[71] - Quote
Vrenth wrote:Zah Damaja wrote:Dear Fellow Eve Players,
It is high time we end highsec ganking. PVP shoud be changed so players have the option if they want to PVP in High sec or not.
Pros: + Easier for new players to get acclimated + Industry can move freely + Less grief for those who don't want to PVP
I propose we have a flag you can turn on and off at will, this way you can PVP when you want.
Please discuss.
Zah Damaja Chief of Highsec Mining Operations Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore Southeast Division
GÇ£The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.GÇ¥ -Sun Tzu, The Art of War It has been stated by CCP OVER and OVER. They want pvp in empire space. They don't want anywhere in eve to be devoid of risk. They want you to die in empire space if you are not paying attention or fitting your ship correctly. Every action in eve has consequences, including autopiloting your freighter without escorts and not fitting a tank capable of fending off it's value in Catalysts. Concord is not there to protect you, and they never will be. They are there to provide consequences in an OPEN PVP ENVIRONMENT. PS. Sorry for the caps, but the italics on these forums are hardly noticeable, and those points must be emphasized.
Exactly.
If CCP wanted a no risk environment in empire space, then for example, why are there NPC rats in empire space in the first place? I've lost quite a few ships while ratting due to my own stupidity back when I first started. Even in highsec space. I even lost a couple of cruisers, too.
I lived and I learned. Lessons like that aren't cheap, and that is the point. There's no point in crying butthurt about it neither, and we don't need to be saved or hand held by either CONCORD, CCP, or by anyone wanting 'freedom' from the consequences of their own actions! |
Ash Katara
The Damned and the Doomed
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 18:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
The reality of this is that EVE is a PvP game. There is no way around that. Unlike most PvP-centric games a good portion of the world space is moderately safe from unwanted PvP. CCP will never remove the ability of one player killing another player anywhere in space so long as the player who initiated the engagement is willing to suffer the in game consequences. The entire economy of EVE is based around the concept they we as players are going to blow up stuff. It you take that option off the table, the economy in EVE dies. All those PvE players mining, rating, trading, and building things will no longer have a means of income as the need for the resources they gather and sell will dry up.
If CCP decide that in order to attract more players, they need to make a more safe area of space for them, I imagine they might put more safe guards in place which only exist in very high security areas of space, say 0.9-1.0 systems. Personally as a mostly non-PvP player I feel that space is too safe in general and the relative safety is not in sync with system security ratings.
You already have Concord in high sec, you have sentry guns at gates and stations is high and low sec. What additional safety measures do you think are reasonable, which do not limit what other payers are capable of doing. |
Biron Soringard
Enheduanni holdings The Enheduanni
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 19:47:00 -
[73] - Quote
Nope. Just Nope. "Undock" is the "I consent to PvP" button |
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
157
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 20:00:00 -
[74] - Quote
Zah Damaja wrote:Ummm I took time out to try to think of a way to improve the game for everyone and you decide to attack me personally instead of discussing the idea. Real mature.
A statement of opinion, even as if it were a fact, is not a personal attack.
Zah Damaja wrote:CCP please remove these forum PVPers from my thread. They are derailing it and personally attacking me and I will not stand for it.
#1 The forums do not exist in high-sec therefore you are subject to forum PvP. #2 If you won't stand for it then sit. Grab a chair and quit whining. At least you have the option of standing for it when para/quadriplegics don't.
ISD Tyrozan wrote:Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.
You missed The Trashcan...
Tchulen wrote: Cons: - Will make new player quit the second they step out of high sec due to shock as they would have had no experience of PVP or losing their ships.
Yeah... Sorry, no, but the first taste I ever got of PvP was when I went low-sec mining after a few weeks of playing. My next taste was when trying to rat in low-sec. I didn't experience high-sec PvP first, I didn't do any "practice" PvP, and those were my first ships lost.
Seven years later I'm still playing. Your idea that new players quitting due to low-sec PvP being a "shock" is refuted by the fact that people have continued and still continue to play after low/null-sec being their first PvP experiences.
Zah Damaja wrote:Obviously the PVP flag works for other VERY POPULAR games. The proof is in the pudding. People love this idea and just because some of you are too immature to understand it is not my fault.
I actually I hate PvP "flags" in traditional MMOs. I also hate that you can't gank the d-bags on your own "side/alliance/faction" for acting like d-bags. There have been dozens of times in, for example, World of Warcraft where I almost prayed that some deity would intervene and let me gank the stupid tank, idiot DPS, or incompetent healers. Then there are the people in warfronts in Rift who just sit on the sidelines talking s*** about everyone else on their team, how they all suck and aren't trying and are losers for it, or who are just botting it up for the free PvP rewards, all of whom ought to be killable by everyone on the field and not just the few people on the other team who might get to them.
In comparison to that EVE is awesome.
__________
I'm a PvP-averse carebear, and I cannot possibly support this idea. EVE provides something relatively unique in the MMO market and destroying that would destroy EVE's uniqueness. Also, I hear that games like Freelancer and X3 provide pretty good experiences for people who want high-sec EVE without PvP. |
Michael Hickey
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 20:49:00 -
[75] - Quote
Don't want to be ganked in highsec?
Simple.
Learn how to gank back! Learn how to make friends so you can get vengeance with a show of force! Put a bounty on his head so that someone else can do the ganking. Catch him while he's can flipping so that you can fire at will without being sanctioned by CONCORD.
Or, go mine somewhere else, and maybe you won't be ganked again, either by the same guy, or someone else.
Learn how to bump other miners and ruin their day.
Learn to accept that there is NO free ride to profit, and that there is a potential to lose at any time. You have to accept risk in order to have a good return.
Learn to have an appetite for tastier rocks in lowsec, as well as how to mine and dash in a hurry.
Learn how to take tasty rocks from blown up ships like a scavenger, as well as can flipping dead rats for tasty morsels.
Hell, learn how to be a pirate, and just be a nuisance to everyone!
Also important is to learn how to HTFU!! You don't have to be a 'nice guy' in EVE with the expectation that everyone will be nice right back. However, it's good to be respectable while you stab someone in the back, or take his loot after someone else blows him up, or when you get blown up yourself with a shitload of stuff. Why? Because this is a GAME, and we're meant to be having fun doing these things. (or at least I think so)
Just don't whine about how 'it isn't fair' because you were singled out! EVE, like real life, isn't fair. Man up, and push forward! |
WolfSchwarzMond
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
41
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:59:00 -
[76] - Quote
As a current TEST member. 1 BORT has no mining operation 2 This idea is so REDACTED stupid I have no words. 3 You're all being trolled. |
WolfSchwarzMond
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
41
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:59:00 -
[77] - Quote
double post for some reason |
Robert Saint
Playright
77
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 01:52:00 -
[78] - Quote
Although I am basically a High Sec only player at the moment...
It's much more fun knowing that "There is some element of risk" to playing the game. High Sec Ganking is a very fair system, since there is a bit of balance to it. Any yes, I've had my freighter ganked in Jita, but I haven't since....
|
Michael Hickey
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 03:20:00 -
[79] - Quote
Robert Saint wrote:Although I am basically a High Sec only player at the moment...
It's much more fun knowing that "There is some element of risk" to playing the game. High Sec Ganking is a very fair system, since there is a bit of balance to it. Any yes, I've had my freighter ganked in Jita, but I haven't since....
I currently operate in both highsec and lowsec as a freelance miner/industrialist. Just lost a Corax destroyer a little while ago for not paying attention to my environment while can flipping for goodies in highsec. Being pod killed was kind of a bummer, but on the other hand, I was quite a few jumps away from by base of operations, and I eliminated the rest of my journey upon my death.
Now, I'm vacationing in Halaima after a 30 jump lucrative haul into lowsec.
And yes, after blowing through Jita a few times, I'm convinced it's quite the house of ill repute. But, it makes the game all the more interesting. |
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
192
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 04:31:00 -
[80] - Quote
Zah Damaja wrote:Thank you for moving my thread to the correct area. Hopefully these forum PVPers will get a clue that this thread is for serious discussion only.
Why so serious? I can has blogging skills! |
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Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
192
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 04:33:00 -
[81] - Quote
Okay, here's an honest question for the debate, if you deflag yourself, will other players still be able to trick the system into making you PvPable like with can flipping or loot stealing? If we make high sec pvp an option only how far are we going with this?
Also, what happens to hulkageddon and burn jita? I can has blogging skills! |
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
192
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 04:38:00 -
[82] - Quote
WolfSchwarzMond wrote:As a current TEST member. 1 BORT has no mining operation 2 This idea is so REDACTED stupid I have no words. 3 You're all being trolled.
A member of a major alliance trolling the forums? GASP!!! The non-story of the year! I can has blogging skills! |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
141
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 05:36:00 -
[83] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:Stop putting up fences in my sandbox!
You get out from my sandbox where I wanna build walls |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10574
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 11:08:00 -
[84] - Quote
I cant believe people are taking this seriously.
1 Kings 12:11
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Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
157
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 13:36:00 -
[85] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I cant believe people are taking this seriously.
It's a slow day. |
Michael Hickey
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 13:47:00 -
[86] - Quote
Linna Excel wrote:Okay, here's an honest question for the debate, if you deflag yourself, will other players still be able to trick the system into making you PvPable like with can flipping or loot stealing? If we make high sec pvp an option only how far are we going with this?
Also, what happens to hulkageddon and burn jita?
If you make PVP a flaggable option in highsec, then I may as well just play World of Warcraft instead.
I don't want to play in a game universe where I can't do this and I can't do that in some ghastly space pseudo socialist order in order to make the crybabies happy. Gah! I want to steal your crap in highsec, and suffer the consequences of doing that when I'm sleeping behind the wheel! Maybe I want to blow up other suspects and take their loot, too! If I can get shot down in highsec for being a bad guy, then at some point I'll want to respond in kind to another player.
Why?
Why not? I just want to start a conversation once in a while. People do start conversations IRL from time to time, no? However, If you simply grind rocks in highsec all day, then you end up talking to no one, and you're not playing the game to your full potential.
If people want to play like carebears, then that's all fine and good, too. However, I'm not going to fight for their protection. I might mine with them for a bit, or I might just bump them for my sick pleasure. If people get suicide ganked while I'm in the neighborhood, then I'll break out the popcorn and watch the show. |
Michael Hickey
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 13:54:00 -
[87] - Quote
Linna Excel wrote:Zah Damaja wrote:Thank you for moving my thread to the correct area. Hopefully these forum PVPers will get a clue that this thread is for serious discussion only. Why so serious?
Having fun is serious business. |
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
193
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Posted - 2013.07.07 21:02:00 -
[88] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I cant believe people are taking this seriously.
I'm taking this thread as seriously as one clown kicking another clown in the nuts.
The answer of course is to require all people to have a Gold LOL ranking before they can enter high sec. I blame CCP and their irrational hatred of Ahri for all this. I can has blogging skills! |
George Boothe
Blootered Bastards
22
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Posted - 2013.07.07 21:22:00 -
[89] - Quote
This idea is awesome! But just having some kind of flag might make it too much like WoW. How about you can redeem a plex and then for a month you could opt out of pvp in highsec? If a month is too long, scaled, smaller amounts of time might be purchasable in which one can opt in and out of pvp. So lets say 2.99$ for an hour of "No-pvp" or something like that. We could call these payments "Monetary Investments Capable of Reintroducing Order", or M.I.C.R.O.-Transactions |
Michael Hickey
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 20:06:00 -
[90] - Quote
Microtransactions. Bleccch! |
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