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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 43 post(s) |
Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
13
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Posted - 2011.10.25 14:10:00 -
[301] - Quote
And why not both?
Once Dust is launched assign it's devs to finish WiS.
Meanwhile have the eve team focus on space content.
I agree that space content is superior to WiS, but while WiS doesn't add gameplay it's still a nice feature to have.
Accept the death of WiS and you basicly open your ass to CCP and say "thanks for the 3 years of poor content, please give me some more"
CCP should refocus on space, but not give up WiS in the process. Give that to CCP and you basicly encourage them to do the same empty promises in the futur.
Refocus on space, and keep a team to finish WiS (even it takes an other year). Case closed. |
Barakkus
959
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Posted - 2011.10.25 14:12:00 -
[302] - Quote
Aston Bradley wrote:And why not both?
Once Dust is launched assign it's devs to finish WiS.
Meanwhile have the eve team focus on space content.
I agree that space content is superior to WiS, but while WiS doesn't add gameplay it's still a nice feature to have.
Accept the death of WiS and you basicly open your ass to CCP and say "thanks for the 3 years of poor content just to get a prison cell full of bugs"
CCP should refocus on space, but not give up WiS in the process. Give that to CCP and you basicly encourage them to do the same empty promises in the futur.
Refocus on space, and keep a team to finish WiS (even it takes an other year). Case closed.
Unfortunately, the state that it is currently in (and I don't know how much of that stuff from the video from 08 still exists) I am venturing a guess at another 3-5 years before it's ready to go. |
Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
13
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Posted - 2011.10.25 14:23:00 -
[303] - Quote
Barakkus wrote: Unfortunately, the state that it is currently in (and I don't know how much of that stuff from the video from 08 still exists) I am venturing a guess at another 3-5 years before it's ready to go.
Even so, let them keep working on it, and force them to keep the space content well and alive.
We (and that includes WiS haters) should not let CCP get away that easily. What i fear now, is the reaction of players at the next winter launch.
I expect loads of "GJ CCP", "You are the bests" to be flooded on the forum. Than the CEO will turn to it's employees and say "See? all is forgiven". |
Barakkus
959
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Posted - 2011.10.25 14:25:00 -
[304] - Quote
I wouldn't doubt they will re-purpose dusties to work on Incarna once it's released. |
Tommy Laughingface
Shoestring Operations
1
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Posted - 2011.10.25 14:27:00 -
[305] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:I wouldn't doubt they will re-purpose dusties to work on Incarna once it's released. Let's hope this is going to happen. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1225
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Posted - 2011.10.25 14:56:00 -
[306] - Quote
yumike wrote:Killstealing wrote:get out qft Morganta wrote:2 out of 10 for Wis
a clear majority 20%.... lol, kind of the point. of a vocal minority (the forums) and so few actually wish to prioritize wis > fis. Yet all the incarna fans were talking about how we are the minority. Sigh What most fail to realize is if EVE forums is 3% of the population (Which, is probably being rather giving.) and only 20% of that 3% want it. extrapolate that onto the player base and we're talking about 30~40k subscribers that care about wis more then fis.
Few, if any, people wish to prioritize Incarna content over FIS content. That path led to disaster.
What people want is for core game play development to be the priority again, but for the core tech of Incarna (and more importantly a proper content plan) to continue to be developed when and where possible.
I think most understand that especially right now, very few resources can be directed towards this work. But few is far better than none for now, especially if good sense is employeed when allocating development resources in the future.
Above all, the desire is for it not to be shelved completely... and for what work that is being done be centered around building a solid plan for inelligent game play. The EVE player base will not accept the tech being developed simply for eventual use in WOD. If it's going to be in our game, it damn well needs to serve an intelligent purpose.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Tommy Laughingface
Neko Neko Honpo Shake Hands Family
19
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:15:00 -
[307] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: I think most understand that especially right now, very few resources can be directed towards this work. But few is far better than none for now, especially if good sense is employeed when allocating development resources in the future.
What CEO said in the recent interview was that there will be "none".... |
Sturmwolke
150
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:16:00 -
[308] - Quote
The returns for Incarna will pale before the effort/investment that goes into it. The only logical reason why they're doing it for Eve is mainly because of WoD.
I play this game for the core Eve classic gameplay (as do most other players). Incarna, regardless of content, is just a side distraction - the icing on a cake. It will never be be treated as the core game because then you'll be having CCP maintain two distinct teams (due to the technical differences) to support & develop both features. It gets expensive. In time, they will have to choose between one or the other - from the cost vs returns standpoint.
I think they're failing to see the single non-monetary commodity from player - TIME. You either spend most of your time with the core gameplay or you spend it elsewhere. The core game has enough content for this to keep the player's interest indefinitely. Incarna will never fully monopolize the MAJORITY player's time, because if it does, then you might as well have spawned an independent sister game to fully monetize the investments poured into it.
Talking about the EVE classic game, it's not a dead-end as some people might argue (short-sightedly). A "game" is always valued first with the quality of its gameplay, how the game is presented (in terms of graphics) is really a secondary/almost non-critical concern.
Now, can you imagine where the classic Eve gameplay would be now if it had the same amount of money/resources (as per Incarna) poured back into it?
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
436
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:23:00 -
[309] - Quote
WiS outside CQ isn't going to happen, unfortunately.
CCP started enthusatically with their CARBON engine only to find out that .. it's a monster of an engine and however pretty (excluding some shader effects); even rendering just one single character walking around in a shoebox already ate more resources than your average fast paced 3D shooter game with 40 people running around in it.
So I guess investors became impatient and raised their eyebrows on the validity of the WiS path, which also would serve as the WoD engine. Also with the current economical climate they rather don't take risks - but the carbon engine seemed to be a neverending story to fine tune and work proper, without killing your PC.
In the meantime the CSM/forum posters started to grumble over the time and human resources WiS was going to consume the coming months/years. Now CCP had the perfect excuse to postpone WiS without losing face (leaving the sinking ship), fire a large chunk of their WoD development team, shelve WoD and "re-allocate resources on FiS since the faithful EVE playerbase wants it and CCP found they mistakingly lost their way but have seen the light again". It's all too convenient to be true and genuine imho .. but that's perhaps my suspiscion. |
Barakkus
960
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:24:00 -
[310] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote: I play this game for the core Eve classic gameplay (as do most other players). Incarna, regardless of content, is just a side distraction - the icing on a cake. It will never be be treated as the core game because then you'll be having CCP maintain two distinct teams (due to the technical differences) to support & develop both features. It gets expensive. In time, they will have to choose between one or the other - from the cost vs returns standpoint.
They already maintain a number of distinct teams working on a number of different aspects of EVE, it's not just 1 group of developers working on everything.
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Jerick Ludhowe
Shadow Legion Industries Dark Phoenix Rising.
8
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:25:00 -
[311] - Quote
"CCP! A lot of us want WiS"
And allot more don't, cheers! |
Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
100
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:29:00 -
[312] - Quote
HighChocobo wrote:
Finish WiS and if you can't do it man up and just say so.
so... them losing 20% of their company and shelving the results (and another game) wasnt them saying "we cant do it" loud enough for you? I hope they never say it louder then
Love the web team... I cant quote in a signature now Aidan Brooder: "And then do us all a favour and STFU ok? Because you are worse than The Mittani and the Goons." lol best praise ever |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1040
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:30:00 -
[313] - Quote
Jennifer Starling wrote:WiS outside CQ isn't going to happen, unfortunately.
It will happen or CCP will lose another wave of subs who lose their hope or finally get tired of waiting of something what was tech demoed at 2008 already.
Get |
Mirime Nolwe
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Devil's Warrior Alliance
38
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:33:00 -
[314] - Quote
WiS if implemented right was a good thing for the game, at least social wise. But the single player buggy mode we got its not even near what CCP have been promising over the last (3/4/5?) years. So or they finish the product or its just ******** to release content like that. |
Sturmwolke
150
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:33:00 -
[315] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Sturmwolke wrote: I play this game for the core Eve classic gameplay (as do most other players). Incarna, regardless of content, is just a side distraction - the icing on a cake. It will never be be treated as the core game because then you'll be having CCP maintain two distinct teams (due to the technical differences) to support & develop both features. It gets expensive. In time, they will have to choose between one or the other - from the cost vs returns standpoint.
They already maintain a number of distinct teams working on a number of different aspects of EVE, it's not just 1 group of developers working on everything.
The context (if it wasn't already apparent) was Incarna related teams vs classic EVE teams.
/me facepalms |
Aston Bradley
Aliastra Gallente Federation
70
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:35:00 -
[316] - Quote
Jennifer Starling wrote:WiS outside CQ isn't going to happen, unfortunately.
CCP started enthusatically with their CARBON engine only to find out that .. it's a monster of an engine and however pretty (excluding some shader effects); even rendering just one single character walking around in a shoebox already ate more resources than your average fast paced 3D shooter game with 40 people running around in it.
So I guess investors became impatient and raised their eyebrows on the validity of the WiS path, which also would serve as the WoD engine. Also with the current economical climate they rather don't take risks - but the carbon engine seemed to be a neverending story to fine tune and work proper, without killing your PC.
True, but i am suprised so many put all the blame of the last poor FIS updates on the back of WiS.
Dust should be added to the equation. That game, should it succed or not, as pulled most of CCP's ressources. WiS couldn't have been done at a worse time. Once Dust is launched, and if it's not a big flop, all will be well.
Without dust pulling so much ressources, i am sure WiS would have been delivered by now.
FiS should be the priority, but WiS should not be burried!
Don't encourage CCP to make empty promises or Incarna will happen again! |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1225
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:40:00 -
[317] - Quote
Tommy Laughingface wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: I think most understand that especially right now, very few resources can be directed towards this work. But few is far better than none for now, especially if good sense is employeed when allocating development resources in the future.
What CEO said in the recent interview was that there will be "none"....
The tech used for Incarna was developed in large part for WOD. WOD development, while scaled back sharply, has not stopped.
Part of the point to this thread is to let them know it's okay to keep that spark alive, so long as that work starts with developing a proper plan for content and Dev resource distribution. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
100
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:42:00 -
[318] - Quote
Tommy Laughingface wrote:Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:Tommy Laughingface wrote:
Uber idea! We need Texas Hold 'em in EVE Online, WiS rocks!
Why not just open a browser window and log onto a proper poker site? Why have CCP divert resources from WiS/FiS to provide something which is already provided for elsewhere? Okay... well, why don't you go play "other" space games and not EVE?
why dont you stop trying to change the game by destroying the company that makes it? This is never gonna be what you want. Move on.
Love the web team... I cant quote in a signature now Aidan Brooder: "And then do us all a favour and STFU ok? Because you are worse than The Mittani and the Goons." lol best praise ever |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
336
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:42:00 -
[319] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:Barakkus wrote:Sturmwolke wrote: I play this game for the core Eve classic gameplay (as do most other players). Incarna, regardless of content, is just a side distraction - the icing on a cake. It will never be be treated as the core game because then you'll be having CCP maintain two distinct teams (due to the technical differences) to support & develop both features. It gets expensive. In time, they will have to choose between one or the other - from the cost vs returns standpoint.
They already maintain a number of distinct teams working on a number of different aspects of EVE, it's not just 1 group of developers working on everything. The context (if it wasn't already apparent) was Incarna related teams vs classic EVE teams. /me facepalms You might be surprised how wide support the "real" Incarna concept in EvE community has. The reasons towards the hate for what we have now are more or less of it not being what people were expecting and for CCP ignoring FiS for so long time. Incarna itself wasn't the problem.
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Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
15
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:48:00 -
[320] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote: You might be surprised how wide support the "real" Incarna concept in EvE community has. The reasons towards the hate for what we have now are more or less of it not being what people were expecting and for CCP ignoring FiS for so long time. Incarna itself wasn't the problem.
Absoloutly.
Go back 3 years in time and see if anyone complained about Incarna back then. A good idea that sadly was executed in the worst possible ways. It's still a good idea. |
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Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
100
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:49:00 -
[321] - Quote
Aston Bradley wrote:And why not both?
The last two years showed why not. They cant. Even with more personnel. Love the web team... I cant quote in a signature now Aidan Brooder: "And then do us all a favour and STFU ok? Because you are worse than The Mittani and the Goons." lol best praise ever |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
103
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:51:00 -
[322] - Quote
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic, thank you. I read quite a lot of good discussions, arguments forth and back. But please remember to stay polite, even if emotions might run high.
We all love EVE and it is pretty sure that there are so many good ways for expansion. As far as I understand it is less about if but when we are going to do all these things. In the upcoming winter expansion we are going to release the three racial Captains quarters, new ships, features and a lot of stuff.
CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
16
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:51:00 -
[323] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:Aston Bradley wrote:And why not both?
The last two years showed why not. They cant. Even with more personnel.
Oh i am sure the dust team will be more than enough to put it back on it's feet. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
337
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:54:00 -
[324] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:Aston Bradley wrote:And why not both?
The last two years showed why not. They cant. Even with more personnel. Yep... I can't think any other company what would present playable tech demo to their customers, ditch it down to drain and start building new one from scratch, only to realize that the end product is total piece of junk :)
It really takes skills and eventually will make Incarna compete about the NukeDukem "forever"-title. Only few more years to go.
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Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
16
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:57:00 -
[325] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic, thank you. I read quite a lot of good discussions, arguments forth and back. But please remember to stay polite, even if emotions might run high. We all love EVE and it is pretty sure that there are so many good ways for expansion. As far as I understand it is less about if but when we are going to do all these things. In the upcoming winter expansion we are going to release the three racial Captains quarters, new ships, features and a lot of stuff.
And i am looking forward to them. Going back to FiS is a very good move.
Still, i hope you guys won't put WiS in a box, Wrap it in tape, put it in a safe, add chains to it, and burry it deep underground.
And from the recent interviews, that seems to be your plan. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
104
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Posted - 2011.10.25 16:00:00 -
[326] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:Tommy Laughingface wrote:Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:Tommy Laughingface wrote:
Uber idea! We need Texas Hold 'em in EVE Online, WiS rocks!
Why not just open a browser window and log onto a proper poker site? Why have CCP divert resources from WiS/FiS to provide something which is already provided for elsewhere? Okay... well, why don't you go play "other" space games and not EVE? why dont you stop trying to change the game by destroying the company that makes it? This is never gonna be what you want. Move on.
Respectfully, although you repeat that point often, it is not correct.
They cannot continue development the way the have in the past, this includes development of classic FIS EVE content. Hilmars interview pointed out many serious issues with how development (including the process of getting feedback from the community, and the level of effort and time required to keep the various teams/locations in sync) resources were not being utilized effectively. Even with FIS content they have been digging the hole of unfinished content deeper and deeper over the years, and it's starting to have a serious negative effect.
The truth is that on all levels they need to change HOW they have been doing things. Much of the necessary restructuring has been done or is currently underway (regretfully at the cost of many good employees), and the benefits are starting to show already.
Bottom line: Developing Incarna did not do the damage to CCP. HOW they went about doing it did. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Chaniqua TicTic
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 16:00:00 -
[327] - Quote
I want ships and a working game before even looking at walking in space. I want every single expansion so far to be looked at and finished. Nearly every single expansion has something unfinished, bugged, or just plain wrong with it. FIX THIS!
Instead of cannibalizing EVE as a testbed for your other games, focus on what makes EVE good. One of your devs (in the fearless magazine) referenced EVE as the goose the lays golden eggs for your company, remember this and treat it as such. |
Phantom Slave
Cryogenic Creations
17
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Posted - 2011.10.25 16:08:00 -
[328] - Quote
I for one hope that CCP puts at least part of their development team on WiS. Maybe just 1 team dedicated to it. The potential for WiS is so awesome, even if it never gets used for more than a glorified lobby where people can sit at a bar or balcony and talk. Slowly add small features to it, not full-blown expansions. Every month add a little bit. A few Agents here and there, maybe add a balcony where you can see the Empress Jamyl in the distance with a full ensemble of guards and spectators.
I don't roleplay, at least not in the sense that true RPers do. What I do is I look at the environment and back story, and connect myself with it so I have a more meaningful experience. Maybe give us the ability to speak with our lvl 4 agents "off the grid" to get some secret missions with dark political implications. The potential here is so enormous it's no wonder you haven't built anything for it. Where do you start?
Start small! Get us the multi-player aspect, with some NPC run bars and NPC's walking around in the distance to give it some feeling of life. Then give us something else that's small in the next patch. Then something small in the next. Give a general focus to what you want us to eventually have, and just put pieces here and there.
Give us something! I hate to see this technology show up and then the code start collecting dust like what happened to FW. I don't want to wait however many years those FW guys have been waiting, just to see another iteration on WiS.
Give everybody what they want. Give us our WiS, even in small pieces. Focus on FiS, as you should. It's what everybody wants to some degree. But there's a lot of us out there that want WiS just as bad.
CCP has said over and over that you're focusing on what the players want. Do us a favor and do exactly that. Work on what *all* of us want, not just the majority. Even if it only happens every 3 months or so, throw us a bone! |
Barakkus
960
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Posted - 2011.10.25 16:21:00 -
[329] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:Barakkus wrote:Sturmwolke wrote: I play this game for the core Eve classic gameplay (as do most other players). Incarna, regardless of content, is just a side distraction - the icing on a cake. It will never be be treated as the core game because then you'll be having CCP maintain two distinct teams (due to the technical differences) to support & develop both features. It gets expensive. In time, they will have to choose between one or the other - from the cost vs returns standpoint.
They already maintain a number of distinct teams working on a number of different aspects of EVE, it's not just 1 group of developers working on everything. The context (if it wasn't already apparent) was Incarna related teams vs classic EVE teams. /me facepalms
And what I'm saying, it's not any different in how they structure their development staff now if it wasn't apparent. |
Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
16
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Posted - 2011.10.25 16:38:00 -
[330] - Quote
Phantom Slave wrote: CCP has said over and over that you're focusing on what the players want. Do us a favor and do exactly that. Work on what *all* of us want, not just the majority. Even if it only happens every 3 months or so, throw us a bone!
Well... To be fair we'll get all 4 CQ's soon.
I would say the next step should be to let us invite friends to our CQ if we happen to be on same station.
The whole point of incarna is to give us a tool to socialize. In that, incarna was a total fail.
I always compare the concept of incarna to the playstation's home social network. This is a good exemple of what icarna can bring to the table. |
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