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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 43 post(s) |
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated New Eden Research.
13
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Posted - 2011.10.26 02:46:00 -
[511] - Quote
Quote:Hilmar P+¬tursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed.
Especially the latter part of that sentence is distressing (emphasis mine). In other words: we're only releasing a bit of more Incarna because we had it finished already, and not because we plan to actually work on it some more.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP |
Ghoest
4
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:01:00 -
[512] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Ghoest wrote: The OP is wrong - only a small minority actively want WIS.
Many of us think it could be nice if done right - but we dont want to sacrifice any of the spaceship development for it. And yet the thread that is in support of the FiS only focus has something like 9 posts and 12 likes and this one is still active, 15 pages and has nearly 500 likes. You must have some other sort of sampling method for lack of support for WiS because honestly, I am seeing even more support than I could have hoped for in these forums. Issler
Ya my sample was the reaction to WIS at release when players realized what had been appeing for the last 18 months(as in no new space ship content.). Wherever You Went - Here You Are |
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated New Eden Research.
15
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:05:00 -
[513] - Quote
Ranka Mei wrote:Quote:Hilmar P+¬tursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed. Especially the latter part of that sentence is distressing (emphasis mine). In other words: we're only releasing a bit of more Incarna because we had it finished already, and not because we plan to actually work on it some more.
On the upside, I just realize, he is saying that he's releasing the new quarters this year. Of course, the man's made promises before, LOL; but let's hope he keeps this one. And if it's true, then, who knows, maybe we'll get the entire Winter expansion this year (as that's the logical inference of the above).
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP |
Flamespar
Woof Club
82
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:23:00 -
[514] - Quote
Ranka Mei wrote:Ranka Mei wrote:Quote:Hilmar P+¬tursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed. Especially the latter part of that sentence is distressing (emphasis mine). In other words: we're only releasing a bit of more Incarna because we had it finished already, and not because we plan to actually work on it some more. On the upside, I just realize, he is saying that he's releasing the new quarters this year. Of course, the man's made promises before, LOL; but let's hope he keeps this one. And if it's true, then, who knows, maybe we'll get the entire Winter expansion this year (as that's the logical inference of the above).
Personally I think it sounds like they are trying to distance themselves from Incarna by implying that minimal work is being done on it. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
120
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:27:00 -
[515] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Ranka Mei wrote:Ranka Mei wrote:Quote:Hilmar P+¬tursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed. Especially the latter part of that sentence is distressing (emphasis mine). In other words: we're only releasing a bit of more Incarna because we had it finished already, and not because we plan to actually work on it some more. On the upside, I just realize, he is saying that he's releasing the new quarters this year. Of course, the man's made promises before, LOL; but let's hope he keeps this one. And if it's true, then, who knows, maybe we'll get the entire Winter expansion this year (as that's the logical inference of the above). Personally I think it sounds like they are trying to distance themselves from Incarna by implying that minimal work is being done on it. I agree.
I also see this part of his comments:
Quote:Incarna is there, and we might pick it up at some point later down the line and it makes me think they'll continue it later. I think they are just going to wait until the heat has died down a bit first. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
68
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:30:00 -
[516] - Quote
Walking in stations - since it is doomed to have no combat due to dust - is considered a minor side show. Stopping basically all work on eve for 18 months to work on "walking in stations" was a huge mistake. I think CCP can see that now. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Elyssa MacLeod
GloboTech Industries GloboTech Trade Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:38:00 -
[517] - Quote
non judgement wrote:I also see this part of his comments: Quote:Incarna is there, and we might pick it up at some point later down the line and it makes me think they'll continue it later. I think they are just going to wait until the heat has died down a bit first.
The "might" qualifier should be pointed out here. That way if they dont come back to it, they can say they never said they WOULD
**** FiS Its Called EVE |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:47:00 -
[518] - Quote
hey you wis lovers, tell me please, what kind of magic technology will enable the average person's gaming computer to render more than 1 incarna avatar? how you going to render jita iv-iv
now they might open up a few more corridors and let u talk to a few npcs in a future patch but whats the point, so u can /wave /dance /lol /gaysex |
Flamespar
Woof Club
82
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:51:00 -
[519] - Quote
Elyssa MacLeod wrote: The "might" qualifier should be pointed out here. That way if they dont come back to it, they can say they never said they WOULD
Which is exactly why players are pissed. We have no idea if Incarna will ever be finished because of his language.
Personally I think they should just come clean and say something like.
Winter 2011 expansion: Space stuff and remaining captains quarters Summer 2012 Expansion: Null sec revamp and Dust Winter 2012 Expansion: Multiplayer establishments plus cool space stuff and t3 frigates
At least this way we know it's coming, and have broad understanding of when. Instead of this endless "wait and see" nonsense.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Elyssa MacLeod
GloboTech Industries GloboTech Trade Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:04:00 -
[520] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Elyssa MacLeod wrote: The "might" qualifier should be pointed out here. That way if they dont come back to it, they can say they never said they WOULD
Which is exactly why players are pissed. We have no idea if Incarna will ever be finished because of his language. Personally I think they should just come clean and say something like. Winter 2011 expansion: Space stuff and remaining captains quarters Summer 2012 Expansion: Null sec revamp and Dust Winter 2012 Expansion: Multiplayer establishments plus cool space stuff and t3 frigates At least this way we know it's coming, and have broad understanding of when. Instead of this endless "wait and see" nonsense.
I doubt youll get it. They want ppl to hang in ther e and keep subbing. If they tell you its unlikely they are going to return to it, what do you think will happen? And if they say they are going to return to it and then dont, what do you think will happen?
**** FiS Its Called EVE |
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
639
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:27:00 -
[521] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:hey you wis lovers, tell me please, what kind of magic technology will enable the average person's gaming computer to render more than 1 incarna avatar? how you going to render jita iv-iv
now they might open up a few more corridors and let u talk to a few npcs in a future patch but whats the point, so u can /wave /dance /lol /gaysex
Whats the point of spaceships in crappier graphics if all you can do is:
/target /gank /pod /surprise noob buttsex
And don't assume everybody in jita will be in the same room. It undermines your intelligence.
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Elyssa MacLeod
GloboTech Industries GloboTech Trade Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:34:00 -
[522] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:hey you wis lovers, tell me please, what kind of magic technology will enable the average person's gaming computer to render more than 1 incarna avatar? how you going to render jita iv-iv
now they might open up a few more corridors and let u talk to a few npcs in a future patch but whats the point, so u can /wave /dance /lol /gaysex Whats the point of spaceships in crappier graphics if all you can do is: /target /gank /pod /surprise noob buttsex And don't assume everybody in jita will be in the same room. It undermines your intelligence.
And dont assume everyone wants WiS and is bored of what we used to think of as the whole game. It undermines your intelligence **** FiS Its Called EVE |
Barakkus
967
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:35:00 -
[523] - Quote
Ya know, this was actually going pretty well up until about page 19. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
119
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:40:00 -
[524] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote: Taking all the devs but six from EVE and putting them on other projects is what caused serious damage to EVE to be honest. Along with splitting their focus across DUST, and WoD/Incarna (because they are linked). Focussing BACK on EVE (where it never should have left) and fixing/finishing those unfinished projects is what they need to do imo. AFTER THAT they can work on your precious WiS IF it doesnt bleed resources from EVE or damage the company.
Totally correct, spot-on. WiS should be a distant thought until FiS has had all it's fixes and new FiS-related game content. History should be good at teaching lessons, lessons based on mistakes are the best lessons learnt. CCP know that now, so give them a decent chance to focus and deliver FiS.
No need to keeping kicking a dead horse. It's down for now, wait for the fresh new filly after FiS updates. Repeatedly posting about WiS now is just a waste of forum space.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
115
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:42:00 -
[525] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Ya know, this was actually going pretty well up until about page 19.
what went wrong O.o
Love the web team... I cant quote in a signature now Aidan Brooder: "And then do us all a favour and STFU ok? Because you are worse than The Mittani and the Goons." lol best praise ever |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
119
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:43:00 -
[526] - Quote
@CCP
Please close this thread, it's the same krap being regurgitated by WiS and FiS supoprters alike. Repeatedly. Endlessly. It is mind-numbing. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
115
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:45:00 -
[527] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote:@CCP
Please close this thread, it's the same krap being regurgitated by WiS and FiS supoprters alike. Repeatedly. Endlessly. It is mind-numbing.
Youd need Mods for that j/k
yeah gotta agree. Its pretty much just trolling after page 19 Love the web team... I cant quote in a signature now Aidan Brooder: "And then do us all a favour and STFU ok? Because you are worse than The Mittani and the Goons." lol best praise ever |
Flamespar
Woof Club
82
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Posted - 2011.10.26 05:14:00 -
[528] - Quote
My final solution.
CCP releases Dev blog on the fate or death of Incarna.
People return to their lives. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
639
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 05:15:00 -
[529] - Quote
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:hey you wis lovers, tell me please, what kind of magic technology will enable the average person's gaming computer to render more than 1 incarna avatar? how you going to render jita iv-iv
now they might open up a few more corridors and let u talk to a few npcs in a future patch but whats the point, so u can /wave /dance /lol /gaysex Whats the point of spaceships in crappier graphics if all you can do is: /target /gank /pod /surprise noob buttsex And don't assume everybody in jita will be in the same room. It undermines your intelligence. And dont assume everyone wants WiS and is bored of what we used to think of as the whole game. It undermines your intelligence
Oh I don't.
I just assume all those individuals who are not bored of it are angry 2 year olds with a "me complex" or a killmail fixation..... evident from the whole give me FiS and re-balance my ships/guns for the Nth time or I rage quit with my brosefs populist movement we saw not so long ago. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
109
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Posted - 2011.10.26 05:15:00 -
[530] - Quote
Agreed on the trolling, and yes these same points keep being brought up as new folks chime in.
As for the comment that WIS should be a distant thought for now, I can't get behind that one.
No offense, but I think now is the time for a small group of content designers to be thinking seriously about what the game plan (and game play) is going to be once they get to the point where they can think about starting work with it again.
I'm not talking a massive team, just those that specialize in the broad strokes... taking some time over the next few months to get their head around the concepts discussed in this thread and others... and figure out how to get things moving in the right direction without shooting themselves (and EVE's core game play) in the foot again.
They seriously need to set up a white board like they did for organizing their thoughts on the purpose and organization of Null Sec and establish some guidelines and goals, and define the lines they should never cross again.
I think this thread did serve a purpose, trolls aside. People on both sides of the debate found a bit of common ground, and most have acknowledged the sane points that were made on both sides.
That's pretty rare on this forum.
And perhaps, if/when WIS is looked at again in the future, this thread might just have some influence on the decisions that will be made. Anything that can help CCP to avoid causing anger on one side and disappointment on the other is a plus, however it turns out. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
483
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Posted - 2011.10.26 07:24:00 -
[531] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:I just assume all those individuals who are not bored of it are angry 2 year olds with a "me complex" or a killmail fixation..... evident from the whole give me FiS and re-balance my ships/guns for the Nth time or I rage quit with my brosefs populist movement we saw not so long ago. The rage quitting thing worked for us. Unfortunately for the half dozen of you who are hung up on playing space Barbie if you all get together and quit nobody will notice.
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
682
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Posted - 2011.10.26 07:31:00 -
[532] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Agreed on the trolling, and yes these same points keep being brought up as new folks chime in.
As for the comment that WIS should be a distant thought for now, I can't get behind that one.
No offense, but I think now is the time for a small group of content designers to be thinking seriously about what the game plan (and game play) is going to be once they get to the point where they can think about starting work with it again.
I'm not talking a massive team, just those that specialize in the broad strokes... taking some time over the next few months to get their head around the concepts discussed in this thread and others... and figure out how to get things moving in the right direction without shooting themselves (and EVE's core game play) in the foot again.
They seriously need to set up a white board like they did for organizing their thoughts on the purpose and organization of Null Sec and establish some guidelines and goals, and define the lines they should never cross again.
I think this thread did serve a purpose, trolls aside. People on both sides of the debate found a bit of common ground, and most have acknowledged the sane points that were made on both sides.
That's pretty rare on this forum.
And perhaps, if/when WIS is looked at again in the future, this thread might just have some influence on the decisions that will be made. Anything that can help CCP to avoid causing anger on one side and disappointment on the other is a plus, however it turns out.
You know, I'm not opposed to your proposal at all. As people probably know by now my personal opposition to Incarna is NeX/MT + bad engine + no content.
If they have a tight group of designers go back and look at it again and perhaps base a redesign around a licensed unreal engine (to solve the performance/scaleability issue) - look for some genuine content (perhaps via crowdsourcing/focus groups/simple community polling) and ensure this content is delivered through player led industry (built by players for players) and there is no trace whatsoever of NeX/MT in the scheme then I for one could get behind some Incarna development in the medium term.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
150
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Posted - 2011.10.26 08:37:00 -
[533] - Quote
QwaarJet wrote:I never had any wish for WiS. Do not presume to speak for me Issler. If you did a community wide pole I guarantee that the majority would be against WiS. I hope it gets ditched completely.
I certainly never claimed to speak for you , whoever the "F" you are. I do see more folks in this thread for it than not, so go find someone else to wrongly claim is putting words in your virtual mouth on these forums.
A lot of folks want to have ambulation, at one time it seemed that CCP did too. WiS DOES NOT have to be tied to vampires, CCP could have decided to focus WoD resources on WiS which I think would make a lot of folks here in Eve happy.
So no idea what your post was intended to accomplish other than making the false claim I am trying to speak for folks that don't want WiS, I am trying to get other folks that want WiS to speak for themselves. This thread shows those folks exist.
Issler
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
135
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Posted - 2011.10.26 08:39:00 -
[534] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Agreed on the trolling, and yes these same points keep being brought up as new folks chime in.
As for the comment that WIS should be a distant thought for now, I can't get behind that one.
No offense, but I think now is the time for a small group of content designers to be thinking seriously about what the game plan (and game play) is going to be once they get to the point where they can think about starting work with it again.
I'm not talking a massive team, just those that specialize in the broad strokes... taking some time over the next few months to get their head around the concepts discussed in this thread and others... and figure out how to get things moving in the right direction without shooting themselves (and EVE's core game play) in the foot again.
They seriously need to set up a white board like they did for organizing their thoughts on the purpose and organization of Null Sec and establish some guidelines and goals, and define the lines they should never cross again.
I think this thread did serve a purpose, trolls aside. People on both sides of the debate found a bit of common ground, and most have acknowledged the sane points that were made on both sides.
That's pretty rare on this forum.
And perhaps, if/when WIS is looked at again in the future, this thread might just have some influence on the decisions that will be made. Anything that can help CCP to avoid causing anger on one side and disappointment on the other is a plus, however it turns out. You know, I'm not opposed to your proposal at all. As people probably know by now my personal opposition to Incarna is NeX/MT + bad engine + no content. If they have a tight group of designers go back and look at it again and perhaps base a redesign around a licensed unreal engine (to solve the performance/scaleability issue) - look for some genuine content (perhaps via crowdsourcing/focus groups/simple community polling) and ensure this content is delivered through player led industry (built by players for players) and there is no trace whatsoever of NeX/MT in the scheme then I for one could get behind some Incarna development in the medium term.
ding ding ding
Exactly. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
105
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Posted - 2011.10.26 09:01:00 -
[535] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
I think this thread did serve a purpose, trolls aside. People on both sides of the debate found a bit of common ground, and most have acknowledged the sane points that were made on both sides.
I think this thread only served to highlight the number of male players out there that wanted to play with Barbie dolls than GI Joe when they were young but couldn't because of (sadly) expectations and established gender roles.
What's next? A lot of male players that wish that they could get pregnant? 10/19 2011 - never forget the 20%
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
150
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Posted - 2011.10.26 09:05:00 -
[536] - Quote
Bomberlocks wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:Reading the CCP CEO interview I was taken by this comment.
"but the voice of the community is quite clear. People want more spaceships, and more flying in space features. That's very much what we are responding to. "
I don't agree, we certainly do want FiS but that doesn't mean we don't wasn more WiS. I think a lot of us do! And leaving WiS as single player prison cell CQ is a reminder that CCP can't keep its promises. The interview makes it clear there is no plan in the works or even being discussed to take WiS beyond the prison cell.
So if you wanted WiS please post in this thread because I think a lot of us want CCP to deliver more of what they have promised use for years now.
DO NOT ABANDON WiS!! LET US OUT THAT DOOR!!!!
Issler Issler, it's nice that the hisec crowd have a voice in the form of your person, but unless you've been living under a particularly large rock, you may have noticed EVE's subs slipping by about 20% since last december and around 8% since June, when The Door(TM) was released. If CCP had continued working on Beyond The Door(TM), there's a very good chance that CCP would have gone down as a company by next year. If and when CCP manages to get all the stuff released that they've currently announced, and it's a LOT of stuff, as well as having finally iterated on and fixed nullsec, losec and FW, then I think there'll be leeway from the portion of the players who quit over The Door(TM). --Bomb
So Simple correction. While I might seem to be a "high sec" representative, that is not all that I am. I am one of the rare low sec dwellers. I know, a care bear low sec-er!!! How can that be?? I've been playing this as my main game for 7 years and have multiple accounts, I've been in the CSM twice, have caps of my own, lived in low sec, been part of two of the biggest null sec alliances to date. Other than building my own outpost (which I consider my personal end game) there isn't much in Eve I haven't done. I'm even one of the dozen or so people that have made Eve news make the main steam press. I'm not pointing that out for my ego, personally I wish the two incidents that made that happen wouldn't have. I'm just saying I know a little about Eve.
What I have chosen over the last couple of years would be to build what most folks would call a care bear alliance. I don't know why but that sort of cat herding is what I seem to enjoy the most. I continue to fight to try an create something in Eve that shows folks not falling into the easy path of finding your inner asshat you can act in a friendly and helpful way to other folks in Eve. Basically I'm one of the minority that still tries to live by NRDS. Can't say I always have success but I think in a lot of ways what I'm trying to accomplish is every bit has hard as 0.0 sov. Maybe, maybe not, but Eve is all about finding what YOU want to focus your time on.
So I started this thread after seeing player after player get tired of the limits of the pod and ships as the only part of the SciFi sim they thought they signed up for. I saw a lot of ex players come back when what CCP tried to pass off as Incarna was released. Very few stayed, not because there wasn't enough FiS, they left because they saw that CCP lied about ambulation and clearly was using Eve to pay for WoD and Dust. They left because they realized CCP was more interested in squeezing more cash from us in the NeX store than delivering the WiS experience that they have teased us with for nearly 5 years.
So as a person that I think I could make a case for that has committed more to Eve that 90% of the other players I believe the future success of Eve depends on showing us that this is a SciFi simulator and not just more ships of different sizes 'sploding each other in space. I firmly believe WiS needs to happen to save Eve because without it the player base will never grow beyond the peaks it has seen before.
I share that thought in these forums but when you characterize me or what I am trying to accomplish in this discussion please make sure you know of what you speak.
Issler
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
153
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Posted - 2011.10.26 09:23:00 -
[537] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
I think this thread did serve a purpose, trolls aside. People on both sides of the debate found a bit of common ground, and most have acknowledged the sane points that were made on both sides.
I think this thread only served to highlight the number of male players out there that wanted to play with Barbie dolls than GI Joe when they were young but couldn't because of (sadly) expectations and established gender roles. What's next? A lot of male players that wish that they could get pregnant?
Not a male player and grew up with barbie dolls, certainly not what I think of when I think of what WiS should be. In fact until we get on the other side of the door all Incarna is is a Barbie simulator.
What this thread did show is how many folks don't have the slightest idea of where RP fits in MMOs and how badly CCP has failed to support that in Eve. How something as simple as WiS with a corp meeting room, an NPC in a recruiting office or as a mission agent or a bar to gather in would make Eve 10000% more immersive.
Some folks like to say such intellectually impressive comments like "go back to wow!" but I don't see Blizzard laying off 20% of their staff. Fact is Eve can make FiS 500% better and without WiS it stays a niche game and CCP will slowly die on the vine or eventually find a game that can appeal to a broader audience and Eve dies anyways.
Issler
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Nyla Skin
Special Taskforce
8
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Posted - 2011.10.26 09:25:00 -
[538] - Quote
Posting in this thread to confirm that I did want walking in stations. |
Pent'nor
2
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Posted - 2011.10.26 11:14:00 -
[539] - Quote
I never felt the need to post in forums before I read that last interview. If ccp does actually listen to these things, then I want to voice that I want WIS!
However the wis that I imagine is basically another game in itself, not just walking around and socializing. I don't care if it takes many more years to get to a point where it is possible to interact with wis on a scale like that, but I do want to know that there is a team working on it. I'd like to see a balance between the wis and fis development teams. I don't care about wod. I'm not paying ccp so they can make a different game for a different universe. I give them money because I like the eve universe and want to see it developed! ccp should think of incarna as a framework that can be reused in another game like wod, NOT make make wod which requires incarna.
I do eventually get bored with fis and then i'll jump to another game to have my avatar experience. Sometimes I keep my sub and sometimes I don't because I will only pay for one game at a time.
I believe in the ccp's vision with eve/dust and wis(incarna), however, I want to know that they are actively pursuing that vision. It was one that I found so amazing and aspiring that even if they do say it will take a few years for them to accomplish, that I will continue to give them my sub money, even if I'm not actively playing the game.
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URDEAD2ME
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
3
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Posted - 2011.10.26 11:22:00 -
[540] - Quote
screw WiS ,
FiS is what needs the work and ballance. |
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