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Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
34
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yeah, I'm complaining about this.
I like how Eve handles skills, to a reasonable extent, but as with all games I've ever played, I'm stuck wondering; "WTF would they do that?"
You know what I'm talking about; the 24 Hr limit for skills (Or a single skill that goes over).
Why is it like this? I've wondered for some time what the point of it is, and I can't really think of one that makes any semblance of sense from my perspective. Was it to stop bots? Make it a more involved process? Eh, I dunno'. But I'm constantly annoyed I can't plan as far into the future as I want, and obtain a perfectly accurate ETC that you can with just a single skill; really how hard could it be to make the skill queue unlimited? It would really help people who are injured/hospitalized (Presuming they planned ahead before) those who go on trips & those who have responsibilities that constantly divert their attention from a game. I believe everyone would benefit from this, even if they don't care for the idea or wouldn't benefit from it much (New players or ancient ones).
What do you guys think? Is there a reason for the limit?
:3 "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?"
"How wrong you are" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
913
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because they want you to log in.
Also, because the skill queue is somewhat improperly named GÇö it's more of a skill switch time buffer. It was put into place for the purpose of relieving people of having to wake up at 3am to switch skills, which means the 24h is already more than adequate for its intended purpose. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
160
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Because they want you to log in. .. for one mysterious reason or other ... |
mkint
187
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Because they want you to log in. This.
Back from the dev blogs and dev comments from when it was added this is EXACTLY CCP's response. |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
221
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 20:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Because they want you to log in.
Yeah and thats been pissing me off. I'am running out of useful 20+ day skills to add, that I probably will never use. |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
34
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
mkint wrote:Tippia wrote:Because they want you to log in. This. Back from the dev blogs and dev comments from when it was added this is EXACTLY CCP's response.
That's mind-numbingly stupid, sorry CCP :(
"Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?"
"How wrong you are" |
Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yes, to get you to log in and play the game. 24 hour skill queue is luxury enough - for many years we got by without any sort of skill queue! |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
34
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 20:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arrs Grazznic wrote: for many years we got by without any sort of skill queue!
.....................What.... "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?"
"How wrong you are" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
913
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 20:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:That's mind-numbingly stupid, sorry CCP :( Not really. You're just expecting it to fulfil a different purpose than what it was designed for. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Kengutsi Akira
93
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well there is the point to be made that they get your money wether you log in or not, what do they care?
lol its a NeX store scam! Youll buy more NeX stuff if youre logging in the game than not
(thats sarcasm if you cant tell) "Even now, higher-ups still talk down on players," the insider told me, "and say we have just hit a bump because some bad players refuse to see the awesomeness of our vision. We're told that it is not our fault." Guess they DONT learn |
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Shad0wsFury
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
3
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hey kiddies, just be glad you don't have to wake up at 2:30am because there WAS no skill queue, and you had to manually begin a new skill EVERY TIME one finished, or you'd have nothing training.
Also, if you're a stoner and trying to train up a new character, you'd have many "dude that 10 minute skill finished like 45 minutes ago and I forgot to start the next one..." moments.
tl;dr (srsly it was two sentences), be happy you have any skill queue at all.
obligatory joke:
in soviet russia, skill queue queues YOU. |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
221
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Arrs Grazznic wrote: for many years we got by without any sort of skill queue! .....................What....
Back then we had to use dump skills or do alarm clock changes. Kids these days.
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Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
341
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 20:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Because they want you to log in.
Those bastards. |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
35
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Not really. You're just expecting it to fulfil a different purpose than what it was designed for.
It has a purpose? A purpose that could be easily augmented to make it better & less cumbersome? "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?"
"How wrong you are" |
Bane Loppknow
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
ahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahaahahahhahahahahahaha
oh wait, you're serious.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
35
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 20:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bane Loppknow wrote:ahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahaahahahhahahahahahaha
oh wait, you're serious.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*Notices a troll*
*Feeds it, hoping it spews more BS* "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?"
"How wrong you are" |
Myxx
Atropos Group
101
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Because they want you to log in.
Also, because the skill queue is somewhat improperly named GÇö it's more of a skill switch time buffer. It was put into place for the purpose of relieving people of having to wake up at 3am to switch skills, which means the 24h is already more than adequate for its intended purpose.
Same reason they wont add skill training to EVEGate.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
913
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Arrs Grazznic wrote: for many years we got by without any sort of skill queue! .....................What.... Ok, story-time! Gather 'round the campfire, kids!
The skill queue was added to EVE in early 2009 as part of the Apocrypha expansion. Before that, you had to be online when one skill finished training and manually start another. This meant you had such glorious moments as skills ending in the middle of the night (i.e. set an alarm at OMGZWTF o'clock or lose skill training time) and having to be online for 6 hours straight without doing anything because today was GÇ£train a new lvl I, II and III every ten minutes"-day. To say nothing of losing a ton of training time because the skill ended during the 1h+ downtime and you couldn't log on and switch it. Hell, to this day, EVEMon has the GÇ£warn if it ends during downtimeGÇ¥ option, which was implemented to let you plan around this problem.
CCP did not want to change this because they were of the opinion that, if you logged in to change those skills, chances were that you'd get caught up in something happening in the universe GÇö your corp being attacked, a nice trading opportunity, some random chit-chat in whatever favourite channel you had open GÇö and keep playing. So no queue for us!!
At some point, the CSM managed to convince them that neither of those glorious moments led to people actually playing, and that, if you could log in once during more humane gaming hours and set up a number of automated skill switches for the next n number of hours, chances were that people actually would get caught up the way CCP wanted them to be. After all, you're far likely to follow your corp on a roam at 8pm when you log in to fiddle with your queue, than you are at 4am when you just want to click that GÇ£learn skillGÇ¥ button and then collapse back into your pillow.
So we got the skill queue which did just that: it allowed you to automate skill switchovers for the next 24 hours GÇö more than enough to get rid of all of those problems, and then some. You could now queue up a whole bunch of pesky low-level/low-rank skills and not have to babysit them every +¦ minutes, and you could be sure that skills that ended when you just wanted to sleep or when the server wasn't up wouldn't create lost training time. And that's what it really is: a 24h buffer for skill switch-overs, not an actual skill queueGǪ
AlsoGǪMyxx wrote:Same reason they wont add skill training to EVEGate. GǪthis. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Velicitia
Open Designs
21
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Arrs Grazznic wrote: for many years we got by without any sort of skill queue! .....................What.... Back then we had to use dump skills or do alarm clock changes. Kids these days.
Bring back alarm clock skill training! |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
221
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 20:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
It would be nice to load up every skill I have and never have to worry about logging in ever again. Ofc my sub runs out in Dec so it really doesn't matter now. Though its sad the last skill Ill be training is Caldari BS V :roll: |
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Myxx
Atropos Group
102
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Arrs Grazznic wrote: for many years we got by without any sort of skill queue! .....................What.... Back then we had to use dump skills or do alarm clock changes. Kids these days. Bring back alarm clock skill training!
**** that ****. Hell no.
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Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
36
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 20:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
Wow.
Alright, that's slightly less stupid.
But still, it could serve a greater purpose. "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?"
"How wrong you are" |
Myxx
Atropos Group
102
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 20:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Wow.
Alright, that's slightly less stupid.
But still, it could serve a greater purpose.
Definitely so. But they want people to log in, so...
|
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
39
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
I don't see the problem.
How many other MMO's allow you to "level up" while *not* playing the game? |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
222
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 20:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Wow.
Alright, that's slightly less stupid.
But still, it could serve a greater purpose.
Not really. If they up it to 3 days people will want a week, if they put it up to a week people will want 2, etc. Like Tippia said really the skill queue is just a buffer, its not "hey lets put 3 months of training in and never log back in."
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Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
222
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:I don't see the problem.
How many other MMO's allow you to "level up" while *not* playing the game?
That argument doesn't really hold water, since you can't actually progress your character based off of how much you play.
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Ilkahn
United Aerospace Co-op
3
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Actually, they should go for a 3-7 day queue if it doesn't eat up alot of resources on the server. It would be nice when helping a new player to allowcate the majority of his skills when helping them. Often they wander off and they fail to follow up getting help in what is really essential in terms of skills. Next thing you know they are in a battleship with support skills at 2 or 3 and they don't understand why they getting the crap kicked out of them.
I support a longer Queue! |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
36
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 20:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Wow.
Alright, that's slightly less stupid.
But still, it could serve a greater purpose. Not really. If they up it to 3 days people will want a week, if they put it up to a week people will want 2, etc. Like Tippia said really the skill queue is just a buffer, its not "hey lets put 3 months of training in and never log back in."
They aren't playing regardless, and when they are queuing up, they stay on for 5 minutes. "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?"
"How wrong you are" |
Florestan Bronstein
The Waterworks
130
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
if you log in you are more likely to create value, content & entertainment for other players than if you don't.
true story.
CCP relies on you paying them so you can create the content that other players will pay CCP for. That's what makes sandbox mmos great. |
Adrian Dixon
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.10.24 21:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
What about the posibility of the current 24hour system with the addition of "or two skills". This way you could set any two skills of any length. for example while im away at weekend my skill queues often end awkwardly before im back at the PC, with this addition we would have more options queuing skills but it doesnt take the mick.
What you think? |
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Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
39
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Posted - 2011.10.24 21:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:I don't see the problem.
How many other MMO's allow you to "level up" while *not* playing the game? That argument doesn't really hold water, since you can't actually progress your character based off of how much you play.
I still don't see the problem. :) Skill training as described in other previous posts was a pain in the neck, rear, butt and toe. So the pain got fixed.
Ever since it got fixed people, some of them, wanted more because of various reasons, like I'm on a holiday for 4 weeks! OMG! I cannot change ma skills!!!! So what? Its a game. The current queue is more then long enough. It doesn't break your game play, it forces you to nothing but thoughtful skill planning. So you lose a couple of hours , maybe a few days even.
So what? It is a game. Serious business I agree but still a game.
If there is one timer that should be changed then it should be the time between clone jumps. Even getting it cut down to 23 hours would have significant impact on a lot of peoples gameplay.
But well that is my pov. :3
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Barakkus
952
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Posted - 2011.10.24 21:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:Well there is the point to be made that they get your money wether you log in or not, what do they care?
Because you can't blow up that which does not log in.
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Ione Dee
Lucror Commerce Investment Corporation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 21:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
I don't mind the 24 hour window. I just just wish we could queue skill book injection. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
114
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Posted - 2011.10.24 21:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:It would be nice to load up every skill I have and never have to worry about logging in ever again. Ofc my sub runs out in Dec so it really doesn't matter now. Though its sad the last skill Ill be training is Caldari BS V
Yer stuffz...I can haz? =D Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Barakkus
952
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Posted - 2011.10.24 21:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ione Dee wrote:I don't mind the 24 hour window. I just just wish we could queue skill book injection.
They mentioned something like that last year or the year before I think, nothing ever came of it. |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
160
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 21:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
I don't really see the great added value of logging in for 30 seconds a few times a month over not logging in at all. |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
125
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 21:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
Two reasons: 1) They want you to actually log in and actually play the game 2) They don't want people to take a character, queue up 6 months of skill training, and then go sell the character once it is ready to "come out of the oven". |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
161
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Posted - 2011.10.24 21:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:Two reasons: 1) They want you to actually log in and actually play the game 2) They don't want people to take a character, queue up 6 months of skill training, and then go sell the character once it is ready to "come out of the oven". 1) logging in and change skills isn't playing the game, either. 2) you can still log in and just change skills and sell it 6 months later. |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
125
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Posted - 2011.10.24 22:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jennifer Starling wrote:Taedrin wrote:Two reasons: 1) They want you to actually log in and actually play the game 2) They don't want people to take a character, queue up 6 months of skill training, and then go sell the character once it is ready to "come out of the oven". 1) logging in and change skills isn't playing the game, either. 2) you can still log in and just change skills and sell it 6 months later.
Yes, but the thing is, many times people log in only to change their skills, and then get distracted by something which convinces them to play the game.
Perhaps their corp is running a mining op Perhaps their alliance has a CTA to defend a home system Perhaps they see that their POS needs fuel Perhaps they see that their POS is reinforced Perhaps they see that a big market order was fulfilled and they have billions of extra ISK burning in their wallets
etc... etc...
Also, yes people can "just log in and change skills and sell it 6 months later", but this is a LOT more annoying and time consuming than spending 10 minutes to sign up for a new account creating a character and then loading a predefined EVEmon skill plan into the skill queue and then never touching the character again.
Think about it - if the only investment into a character that someone needed to make was 10 minutes, then what is stopping illegitimate users from signing up for hundreds, if not thousands of accounts for the sole purpose of harvesting characters? No, that would be a nightmare for the rest of the playerbase, so I prefer to be forced to log in, thank you very much.
Furthermore, if this WERE put into place, then people would start complaining about how they can't play the game for 3 months because their character isn't "done" yet. CCP would have to change starting sps AGAIN so that every character starts with at least a basic set of skills which players deem mandatory.
And then we would have even MORE alt cycling suicide gankers/scammers/spies/etc...
I literally see nothing more than marginal benefits to an unlimited skill queue, and so many potential disasters. |
Tashanaka
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 22:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Ok, story-time! Gather 'round the campfire, kids! ....
Nice story, but you forgot to mention the that skill queue was also to soften the removal of Ghost Training. |
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Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
40
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Posted - 2011.10.24 22:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Taedrin wrote: I literally see nothing more than marginal benefits to an unlimited skill queue, and so many potential disasters.
So, you're against streamlining because it gives marginal boosts to alt farming, which is done anyway in copious amounts? It's not even against the rules.
"Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?"
"How wrong you are" |
Valari Nala Zena
Perkone Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2011.10.24 22:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
Imo, should add a queue up until your payed subscription ends. |
Russell Casey
One Ton
46
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Posted - 2011.10.24 22:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
They want people logging on their alts so they can claim the population is bigger than it actually is. |
Jonni Favorite
Sundown Logistics SpaceMonkey's Alliance
28
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Posted - 2011.10.24 23:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Ione Dee wrote:I don't mind the 24 hour window. I just just wish we could queue skill book injection. They mentioned something like that last year or the year before I think, nothing ever came of it.
Yeah that's in their queue for right after full WIS release I think.. |
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