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Author |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
9953
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 00:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Salvage is not loot, a wreck with loot in has a different icon from that of a wreck without, you can get salvage from both.
It's not hard to understand, although from looking at your bio you've come here from other MMOs so you may have some difficulty.
I'll give you some free advice, forget everything you've learnt in all the other MMOs, with the possible exception of Ultima Online pre trammel, because Eve is not like all the other MMOs, it doesn't pamper you, it doesn't make things easy, and if you have a cookie it will steal it from you, and then laugh at you for bringing one in the first place.
dammit beaten to the punch on permaband <3 CCP Guard
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad." |
xxdeathxx thebeaver
It Burrns When I PvP
1
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Posted - 2013.07.10 01:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Salvage is not loot, a wreck with loot in has a different icon from that of a wreck without, you can get salvage from both.
It's not hard to understand, although from looking at your bio you've come here from other MMOs so you may have some difficulty.
I'll give you some free advice, forget everything you've learnt in all the other MMOs, with the possible exception of Ultima Online pre trammel, because Eve is not like all the other MMOs, it doesn't pamper you, it doesn't make things easy, and if you have a cookie it will steal it from you, and then laugh at you for bringing one in the first place.
dammit beaten to the punch on permaband <3 CCP Guard
yea ok savage isn't loot but yet, it goes into your cargo just the same as the contents inside a container... im done arguing because facts are facts aside from any bs mech. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
9954
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
It goes into my cargo if I beat you to it, it then becomes mine and not a piece of space junk causing a navigation hazard.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad." |
xxdeathxx thebeaver
It Burrns When I PvP
1
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Posted - 2013.07.10 01:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:It goes into my cargo if I beat you to it, it then becomes mine and not a piece of space junk causing a navigation hazard.
than i should be able to attack you without any problems simple as that, im not saying you can't but it should ignore all rules that apply such as killrights and concord. |
Donovan Draknevov
Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
4
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Posted - 2013.07.10 01:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
xxdeathxx thebeaver wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Salvage is not loot, a wreck with loot in has a different icon from that of a wreck without, you can get salvage from both.
It's not hard to understand, although from looking at your bio you've come here from other MMOs so you may have some difficulty.
I'll give you some free advice, forget everything you've learnt in all the other MMOs, with the possible exception of Ultima Online pre trammel, because Eve is not like all the other MMOs, it doesn't pamper you, it doesn't make things easy, and if you have a cookie it will steal it from you, and then laugh at you for bringing one in the first place.
dammit beaten to the punch on permaband <3 CCP Guard yea ok savage isn't loot but yet, it goes into your cargo just the same as the contents inside a container... im done arguing because facts are facts aside from any bs mech.
Like Jonah said, forget any other MMOs' mechanics. The only similar thing I can think of to this would be World of Warcraft's skinning. After you kill something, anyone can skin it. After you kill anything in Eve, anyone can salvage it. The difference is that in Eve you can do something to stop the salvaging by salvaging it faster than the guy trying to ninja your stuff, whereas in WoW you're outta luck.
Like you said. Facts are facts. You need to realize that unlike any other MMO, piracy and things that would be considered illegal are allowed and even promoted. He honestly could have stolen from your cans too. At which point you would have been able to legally fire upon him without consequence. However, unless he's solo-ninja-salvaging, most likely the second you opened fire his buddies would warp in and make you a molten pile of slag in seconds. Trust in the Rust |
Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
9954
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
xxdeathxx thebeaver wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:It goes into my cargo if I beat you to it, it then becomes mine and not a piece of space junk causing a navigation hazard.
than i should be able to attack you without any problems simple as that, im not saying you can't but it should ignore all rules that apply such as killrights and concord.
Why? Salvage is not yours until it's in your possession, it's been like that for at least the last 4 years, don't like it? raise a petition and get the same answer from CCP that you've already been given by us.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad." |
xxdeathxx thebeaver
It Burrns When I PvP
1
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Posted - 2013.07.10 01:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:It goes into my cargo if I beat you to it, it then becomes mine and not a piece of space junk causing a navigation hazard.
CCP Gamesmasters and Devs categorically state, and have done on numerous occasions, that salvaging another persons wreck is not a flaggable action, now that is a fact which can't be disputed. You're not the first to complain about it, and you won't be the last, and nothing you say or do will change the fact that salvage belongs to the person who gets it into their cargo hold first.
Call it a bullshit mechanic all you like, your opinion on this doesn't matter one iota to CCP, it's their game, their mechanics, their rules.
Well it needs to be disputed because its bullshit anyone with a brain can see that, i mean they are the dev to this game they aren't stupid, myself and many others that i spoken to see my point other than a selective few like yourself which most likely... like this rule because it protects your ass from getting killed while you take peoples ****, but whatever you can tell me its right all day but anyone like i said with a brain will see my point and why it should atless have the edits to take out concord/killrights atless |
xxdeathxx thebeaver
It Burrns When I PvP
1
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Posted - 2013.07.10 01:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
all im saying is we should have the right to open fire on the person thats it without problems, by all means loot/savage the wrecks but atless give the fighting option i mean if they wanna steal than let them fight for it right lol |
Donovan Draknevov
Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
4
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Posted - 2013.07.10 01:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
xxdeathxx thebeaver wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:It goes into my cargo if I beat you to it, it then becomes mine and not a piece of space junk causing a navigation hazard.
CCP Gamesmasters and Devs categorically state, and have done on numerous occasions, that salvaging another persons wreck is not a flaggable action, now that is a fact which can't be disputed. You're not the first to complain about it, and you won't be the last, and nothing you say or do will change the fact that salvage belongs to the person who gets it into their cargo hold first.
Call it a bullshit mechanic all you like, your opinion on this doesn't matter one iota to CCP, it's their game, their mechanics, their rules. Well it needs to be disputed because its bullshit anyone with a brain can see that, i mean they are the dev to this game they aren't stupid, myself and many others that i spoken to see my point other than a selective few like yourself which most likely... like this rule because it protects your ass from getting killed while you take peoples ****, but whatever you can tell me its right all day but anyone like i said with a brain will see my point and why it should atless have the edits to take out concord/killrights atless
Translation: CCP should pander to me and make this game work for what I want it to do.
You get right on that. *grabs the popcorn* Trust in the Rust |
Phoenix Einherjar
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait..... You lost a 850m NApoc to CONCORD because you got mad at a little frigate stealing <10m worth of SALVAGE!?
...
:D does not even begin to describe how big my incredulous smile is right now. And you say you're 3 months old? At 3 months old you have NO business running Lvl4s in a 850m NApoc. You must have bought it through PLEX or otherwise you were flying something you couldn't afford to lose, hence breaking the NUMBER 1 RULE OF EVE.
You complaining about being mentally deficient and being CONCORDed over salvage is about as dumb as if I were to complaim about losing my 1.2billion NApoc to scramming rats after being a cocky ************ and hitting all the triggers in Attack of the Drones... |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
9956
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
xxdeathxx thebeaver wrote:all im saying is we should have the right to open fire on the person thats it without problems, by all means loot/savage the wrecks but atless give the fighting option i mean if they wanna steal than let them fight for it right lol Do you really want to know what would happen if what you suggest was put into place?, You'd die, a lot, because a PvE fit ship is no match for a PvP fit ship.
As I said earlier, if you want to dispute what you have been told, and consider that salvage being classed as junk is a bullshit mechanic then petition it at the following link, don't be surprised when you get told exactly what you've been told here.
http://community.eveonline.com/support/support-tickets/
At the end of the day CCPs word is law when it comes to ingame mechanics, their game, their rules.
If you can't accept the rules then I suggest you try SWO, Freelancer, Homeworld, the X series or the Kerbal Space Program for your spaceships fix, there's also Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen when they're released.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad." |
Phoenix Einherjar
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
Donovan Draknevov wrote:The only similar thing I can think of to this would be World of Warcraft's skinning.
Excellent analogy and one this tard will probably understand. It's EXACTLY like someone stealing your skinnable corpse if they were on the same faction/on a PVE server. The loot is yours, the skins (salvage) is not, until it's in your inventory. It's been that way SINCE IMPLEMENTATION IN BOTH GAMES.
And here's the bit OP can't seem to understand: In WoW, if someone steals your skin, YOU HAVE NO RECOURSE AGAINST THEM
In EVE, there are NPC police to enforce this fact.
You disengaged your safeties and tried to act against the ninja. It's exactly like being able to voluntarily turn off starting area protection in WoW and 1-shotting lvl 1 newbies - you'd get a ban in WoW, you get shot by the police in EVE. |
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
263
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
Shoot your wrecks. Problem solved. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
75
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
I have this thing now were I try to look at the avatar and the player's name and reconcile the carebear tears they are crying in the forums. Take a look at:
"xxdeathxx thebeaver"
avatar and then his corp name:
It Burrns When I PvP
and see if you see "carebear" in it. Dude, be the guy you created in the avatar. He looks like a bad-ass. Be him. Don't whine on the forums. Hunt that guy down and kill him, like you did, then learn how to live with a killright for a month. I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |
Relego
The People Who Are Still Alive
7
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Posted - 2013.07.10 01:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
Seems to me the simple, yet elegant, solution is for the OP to move to low. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os5TXyJlEMc |
xxdeathxx thebeaver
It Burrns When I PvP
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I have this thing now were I try to look at the avatar and the player's name and reconcile the carebear tears they are crying in the forums. Take a look at:
"xxdeathxx thebeaver"
avatar and then his corp name:
It Burrns When I PvP
and see if you see "carebear" in it. Dude, be the guy you created in the avatar. He looks like a bad-ass. Be him. Don't whine on the forums. Hunt that guy down and kill him, like you did, then learn how to live with a killright for a month.
it just made me bitter about the mech is all im over it but still grinds my gears yea know ? |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
76
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
xxdeathxx thebeaver wrote:all im saying is we should have the right to open fire on the person thats it without problems, by all means loot/savage the wrecks but atless give the fighting option i mean if they wanna steal than let them fight for it right lol
Wait.. wait.. I see the problem. You want a change to the game rules, but clearly CCP isn't going to do that, at least not before you unsubscribe because of the myriad of other things that are going to **** you off. So let me at least help you out a bit. Run your missions in lowsec or NPC nullsec. There the rules allow you to shoot whoever comes into your mission space without any police interference at all. Those are just the rules you want, so problem solved yes? I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3607
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
xxdeathxx thebeaver wrote:Elizabeth Aideron wrote:why did you have your safety off while mission running anyway? my safety was on until i seen the person looting and as far as i knew you had to change it to attack anywhere so i did and of course the person had help from the police before yea i was in the wrong because i spend a few hours on this one long mission and sure enough here's someone savaging wrecks so like any other game why shouldn't i be able to fire on them? So i shot them and concord saves the day! but im in the wrong i forgot... its a profession but its the same thing as looting someones can but w/e
You have a... breathtaking... understanding of the safety mechanics. Simply breathtaking.
xxdeathxx thebeaver wrote:all im saying is we should have the right to open fire on the person thats it without problems, by all means loot/savage the wrecks but atless give the fighting option i mean if they wanna steal than let them fight for it right lol
You own the contents of a wreck that you've legally killed. Nobody owns the wreck.
You can fire on people who steal things you own (the contents, for example). You cannot fire on people who do not steal things you own (since you don't own the salvage, nobody's stolen anything from you). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
9956
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 01:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
Oh god I just noticed that he's actually the CEO of his corp, if he's anything to go by then that corp and its 28 members are destined to disappear in short order, especially after this thread.
*Calls the smiter of shiptoasters on the Somali Coastguard Hotline*
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad." |
Tinker Vuld
New Order Logistics CODE.
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 02:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
I, for one, would like to commend the OP for sharing this tale of woe. He has inspired me to go out and give this salvaging profession a try.
So reading between the lines the best place to salvage tears is in someone else's mission is that correct? www.minerbumping.com - study it, live it, breathe it, for The Code shall set you free. |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
9957
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 02:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tinker Vuld wrote:I, for one, would like to commend the OP for sharing this tale of woe. He has inspired me to go out and give this salvaging profession a try.
So reading between the lines the best place to salvage tears is in someone else's mission is that correct? Pretty much.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad." |
Hadewijch
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 02:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
xxdeathxx thebeaver wrote:
Because of this rule the person had a killright against me and opened it to everyone and caused me to lose a Navy Apoc and fits which was about 850million and i know most of you out there buy plex and whatever but some ppl actually enjoy the game and work for there ingame credits like missions... mining whatever right?
Hullo there!
I warned you are going to get pwned at Amarr undock, but you would not listen. What were you thinking, going to Amarr in your nice shiny navy Apocalypse with a kill right on your head?
I am glad you learnt something new about EVE mechanics today.
Yours, H. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
328
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 02:42:00 -
[53] - Quote
MTFU or GTFO. I'm lazy this night. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
455
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 03:22:00 -
[54] - Quote
xxdeathxx thebeaver wrote:Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:xxdeathxx thebeaver wrote:Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:Miners have same thoughts about the whole "can flipping" thing.
It's a basic game mechanic. It's not a bug and there is no way CCP will change it. EVE is designed to allow people to ruin your day if you let them.
You let them and they ruined your day. Now that you understand the mechanic you can adjust your play style. Well than we should be allowed to take cans without getting introuble right ? You CAN flip cans without getting "in trouble". CONCORD will not care. It does give the person who owns the can the ability to fire on you (not that it does a miner any good). The difference is that you OWN the can, NOT the wreck well same thing we should have the ability to fire on the person savaging our wrecks right ?
You littered space with no concern and complain when a lovely person comes along and cleans up YOUR MESS.
Litterbugs like you deserve to be Concorded.
Can you imagine how badly an asteroid could be damaged if one of those wrecks floated off and hit one?
Next time clean up your own mess so the other good folk in Eve do not have to do it for you.
I bet after you lost your Navy Apoc you even left that junk sitting in space. When will some people learn. Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Nixss
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 03:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Phoenix Einherjar wrote:Donovan Draknevov wrote:The only similar thing I can think of to this would be World of Warcraft's skinning. Excellent analogy and one this tard will probably understand. It's EXACTLY like someone stealing your skinnable corpse if they were on the same faction/on a PVE server. The loot is yours, the skins (salvage) is not, until it's in your inventory. It's been that way SINCE IMPLEMENTATION IN BOTH GAMES. And here's the bit OP can't seem to understand: In WoW, if someone steals your skin, YOU HAVE NO RECOURSE AGAINST THEM In EVE, there are NPC police to enforce this fact. You disengaged your safeties and tried to act against the ninja. It's exactly like being able to voluntarily turn off starting area protection in WoW and 1-shotting lvl 1 newbies - you'd get a ban in WoW, you get shot by the police in EVE.
There is one small difference, in WoW you can not skin a corpse until it has been looted. I used to do that to the ninja skinners, I just wouldn't loot the corpses and they would send me some nice rage tells, asking me to loot so they can skin them.
To the OP you can turn this into something profitable for you. There are lots of fleet battles in low and null. Grab yourself a Manticore fit 4 salvagers a MWD and cloak, as well as a few cap re chargers and boosters, rig it right and salvage their stuff. There are some nice wreaks out there. Its a cheap fit that can make you some ISK. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Paragon Blitz
515
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 03:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
This is why ninja salvagers are a valued part of the EVE community.
It's not their role in cleaning up the mess left by capsuleers. It's their incredible capacity to provide entertainment for all of us.
An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
328
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 04:02:00 -
[57] - Quote
It just amaze me the attitude "Change the mechanics so I can be s@upid and careless all I want, risk free!" of some "gents". Try do sites in nosec space. See how that goes. You should be thankful of not getting your ship blown up by..., oh. Wait..., ltoosoon? |
Plastic Psycho
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 06:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
xxdeathxx thebeaver wrote: ... i shot the person because it IS THE SAME AS TAKING LOOT FROM THE CONTAINERS and theres no way to say its not because they are marked when the persons name when they are destroyed, this rule needs to be updated ...
See, what we have here is a failure to communicate. CCP lays out the rules. But Dead Beaver here wants things otherwise. So he gets Concordokken, because that's the way things work. CCP don't care that the Beaver is Dead. Nor do we. Only the Beaver cares that it is dead. But it is dead, so who cares? |
Cannibal Kane
Temple of Kane
2009
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 06:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
oh hi there future war target.
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Caliph Muhammed
Caldari Investment and Security Industries Enigma Project
403
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 06:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Is salvage created without someone first expelling the energy and resources completing the mission? No?
We can see the communist philosophy behind the system. One guy does the work and another collects the reward and the system protects the parasite.
Quite a "learned protocol" comrades. |
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