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Mina Sebiestar Mactabilis Simplex Cursus 386	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:33:00 - [121] - Quote Dorrann wrote: Mina Sebiestar wrote: Worst enemies to PVE overhaul would be carebears them self's... Agents missions will stay unchanged if you want more challenge there are incursions and wh AI I hope that in not so distant future they will redo some agents to offer missions that are for 2-5 player groups with dynamic content that require logi,s and warp scrams, usage of mwd and team work in general. As for inc and wh i guess engine is not flexible enough nothings happening... These already exist, they are Level 5 missions, and were accessible in High Sec until the Low/Null-Bears bitched up a storm about it and got them all moved to Low/Null..... i didn't put emphasis on dynamic sry about that l5 mission are exactly same as l4 or l6 l7 l8 if they are to exist. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos 1220	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:38:00 - [122] - Quote EvE is a pvp game. yes. Without players to mine minerals to make ships and then blow those ships up, theres no game. However people die to pve too and are meant to, but since NPCs are far easier (1v1 and 11111111v1) but this should be regarded as training. There is no "pve end game" only player goals, which at all stages of the game, involve some sort of player vs player content. From trading to mining to fighting other players in actual ships its all focused pvp in a way, pve is to "get you going" and provide a stable grind resource. Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
De'Veldrin Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two 1714	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:40:00 - [123] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: A MMO has to clear 1 million players to operate without going in the red, and PROFIT (that's the minimum to pay for the hardware, devs and marketing). Once they dip below that they can't self-sustain, and go F2P or PLEX. PLEX aren't free. There is no way for a subscribed account to play Eve for free. Someone paid the subscription cost, even if it isn't the account holder. That little detail aside, large companies (like Blizzard) require larger revenue streams to keep them profitable than small ones (like CCP). As of 2012, Blizzard employed a little over 7,000 people. (Source, Vivendi Annual Report for 2012). Even a million WOW subscriptions couldn't pay for that many employees, unless you charged about $30 a month (assuming everyone makes a flat 50,000USD a year including benefits, and infrastructure upgrades just magically appear). In reality you'd probably have to charge close to double that. IF Wow was Blizzard's only source of income. Thankfully (for Blizzard at least) it's not. Their other IPs also help to keep them in chips, and the lights on, and they have to, because a large company like Blizzard cannot afford to put all of its eggs into one basket as it were. CCP, on the other hand, employs about 600-700 people. That's a tenth of the number that Blizzard employs. Some simple math would indicate they could get by quite nicely with a smaller subscription base because their cost of operation is considerably lower. Ace Uoweme wrote: So no, 500k isn't good enough. Sweeping generalizations are the enemy of logic and reasoning. If I toss a pumice stone in to a lake and observe its buoyant nature, should I then declare that all rocks can float? GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players.
SmokinDank Horizon Research Group 26	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:43:00 - [124] - Quote Something tells me CCP hasn't 'just been getting' by for the past 10 years I wonder how hilmar's ferrari is driving.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2320	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:51:00 - [125] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Look at the ignorant assumption you make. WHY is 500k playing a game that isn't for everyone a bad thing? Because you're too stupid to even understand the gaming industry. A MMO has to clear 1 million players to operate without going in the red, and PROFIT (that's the minimum to pay for the hardware, devs and marketing). Once they dip below that they can't self-sustain, and go F2P or PLEX. You can look around even here on how CCP operates on a shoestring, because 500k players doesn't pay the bills. Need the players to be over 1 million. 2 million to have the innovation and attract the talent (what person with talent wants to work for a belly up game?). So no, 500k isn't good enough. That's pure nonsense, it ignores any number of variables (like how big is the company and how much is their overhead) as well as ignoring the evidence (CCP is still here, EVE is still here). It also presupposed that each and every game and game maker is alike so their is some set number for "success"). Your beliefs are plain foolish and easily disprovable, yet you hold onto them religiously despite seeming smart enough to know better. You should probably re-examine your thought process, because you seem to be more "feeling" than "thinking" (i would LOVE to see your Briggs-Myers test lol). You come to bad conclusions about things as a result.
Mina Sebiestar Mactabilis Simplex Cursus 386	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:52:00 - [126] - Quote SmokinDank wrote: Something tells me CCP hasn't 'just been getting' by for the past 10 years I wonder how hilmar's ferrari is driving. There's ferrari than there's real car http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 3649	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:52:00 - [127] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: This is why EVE should never EVEr be something that the Ace Uoweme's of the world would like and flock to. One of the best features of EVE is that it has no 'levels" a smart player with a lower "skilled" char can beat a dumb guy with 100 mil skill points. not like in other games where your level 70 or something night elf witchcraft chcuker is invincible to lower level characters no matter how stupid the guy at the controls is. It's ok that people like those other MMOs, leave EVE alone. People like you Jenn, spend more time mocking, than thinking. You're like Burger King with the negative ads, and just don't "get it" why McDonald's will always be #1 (they don't use negative ads). 9 million players enjoy WoW. 500k play EvE. That's all you really need to know. Spin those ships with excuses, but it's clear what sells. Clearly Apple is failing and should copy Microsoft because Microsoft has the 90% market share, right? WOW has lost 3 million subscriptions in as many years. EVE has been adding subscriptions for 10 years straight. Every MMO that has tried to copy WOW had failed miserably. Why should EVE try to compete directly with the biggest swinging **** in the industry when it can be in a strong second place and rake in the dough? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
Plastic Psycho Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:56:00 - [128] - Quote Tippia wrote: The only GÇ£we are what we areGÇ¥ thing about EVE is the non-guarantee of success... Translation: Not everyone gets to 'win.' Indeed, there is no defined 'win.' There are a number of swingsets and jumgle gyms, teeter-totters, and other playground equipment available, however. Use them as you see fit.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 458	Posted - 2013.07.15 16:00:00 - [129] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Clearly Apple is failing and should copy Microsoft because Microsoft has the 90% market share, right? Apple wouldn't exist today without Microsoft that save it. Don't live in an oyster. It's not good for you. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
De'Veldrin Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two 1714	Posted - 2013.07.15 16:10:00 - [130] - Quote I wish we had negative thumbs for this forum. Self esteem issues be damned, give me the red pen CCP. Failure of this magnitude should hurt. A lot. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players.
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 196	Posted - 2013.07.15 16:16:00 - [131] - Quote Quote: One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players Dont think about others as problems, think about them as new occasion to make ISK. New CQ prototype
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 3651	Posted - 2013.07.15 16:18:00 - [132] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Clearly Apple is failing and should copy Microsoft because Microsoft has the 90% market share, right? Apple wouldn't exist today without Microsoft that save it. Don't live in an oyster. It's not good for you. Apple has enough cash on hand (~$150 Billion) that they could buy a controlling interest in Microsoft (Market Cap $300 Billion). But feel free to address the rest of my post anytime. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
De'Veldrin Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two 1715	Posted - 2013.07.15 16:26:00 - [133] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Clearly Apple is failing and should copy Microsoft because Microsoft has the 90% market share, right? Apple wouldn't exist today without Microsoft that save it. Don't live in an oyster. It's not good for you. Apple has enough cash on hand (~$150 Billion) that they could buy a controlling interest in Microsoft (Market Cap $300 Billion). That's why MS is so crappy. They're just doing Apple's bidding. :tinfoil: GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players.
Plastic Psycho Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2013.07.15 16:32:00 - [134] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Apple has enough cash on hand (~$150 Billion) that they could buy a controlling interest in Microsoft (Market Cap $300 Billion). True... Now. Wasn't always so. Do be aware of the history.
Verunae Caseti Viziam Amarr Empire 136	Posted - 2013.07.15 16:55:00 - [135] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: 9 million players enjoy WoW. 500k play EvE. That's all you really need to know. Spin those ships with excuses, but it's clear what sells. Based on your completely ridiculous rationale, Justin Bieber is the greatest performer of all time and all bands, songwriters and musicians should take note and follow in his footsteps because they have so much to learn from him, right? You heard it here first, folks, Ace has Bieber Fever. Spread the word. Thankfully for the music world and online gaming, some people understand that the point of everything is not to simple maximize the number of people who view or experience your content. The market is a million complex creatures each with their own set of demands. It is not a singular beast crawling through the wastes looking for one and only one kind of food. There is a demand for EVE - for a PvP-oriented space combat game with a robust economy and elaborate player-driven content mechanics. Is that market as large as the market for cartoon-fantasy, oversized-sword Blizzard lovefests? No, it's not. It's smaller. But that's okay, becuase CCP has clearly figured out how to tap that market space with a product that fulfills this demand and generates enough revenue to continue to exist. Becoming more like WoW does not magically grow their playerbase, it shrinks it - because it ceases to fill the demand it is currently filling and moves over and tries to fill a demand that doesn't exist because it's already being satisfied by an existing product. You're basically telling CCP to stop serving their fans/customers, and start trying to steal Blizzard's which is laughable wretched advice from both a game design standpoint as well as a basic economic standpoint. They have captured a market and they need to keep it and the way to do that is to keep doing what they're doing, not to try and emulate others. Ace Uoweme wrote: A MMO has to clear 1 million players to operate without going in the red, and PROFIT A statement that assumes the variables in the profit equation are constant and not variable for every game and company in existence, which is a claim so astronomically ignorant and stupid that it lends credence to my growing theory that you don't actually believe any of the mental diarrhea you spew all over these boards on a daily basis and you're just here because you have an extremely boring desk job that affords you bucketloads of time which you can't find a better use for than trolling for replies on the EVE forums. Seriously, what kind of idiotic drivel is this? The number of players it takes to make an MMO profitable depends on the size of the company in question, their operating costs - which brings into play salaries, health care, insurance, and fuel and energy costs in their native coutnry, the average income per player, a host of retention statistics, revenue from other sources, investments and investors, etc., etc. This, of course, is all ignoring the fact that EVE exists and has for over a decade. If it were a money sink, CCP would have fallen off the face of the earth 5 years ago. It is obviously working for them just fine where it's at. Quote: (that's the minimum to pay for the hardware, devs and marketing) Costs you have absolutely NO ability to quantify and which are obviously not constant or consistent across developers. Quote: Once they dip below that they can't self-sustain, and go F2P or PLEX. You say that as if PLEX is not a subscription model. PLEX costs money. People who buy PLEX are paying. It is not another form of F2P as you seem to suggest by lumping the two together in the same stence. PLEX, by it's nature, is a self-sustaining system. Of course you must know this. You have to. Which, again, goes towards the troll theory I state above. You can't be a real person who can form cogent, intelligent English sentences as consistently as you seem to do and yet be this stupid. You present internal inconsistency which can only be reconciled if we accept the fact that you are doing it on purpose. Quote: You can look around even here on how CCP operates on a shoestring A 10-year-old shoestring that has funded CCP and the development of additional products. That's a seriously strong shoestring.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 460	Posted - 2013.07.15 16:57:00 - [136] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Apple has enough cash on hand (~$150 Billion) that they could buy a controlling interest in Microsoft (Market Cap $300 Billion). Wouldn't matter, if they didn't exist. Apple exists because Microsoft saw an opportunity. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 460	Posted - 2013.07.15 17:02:00 - [137] - Quote Verunae Caseti wrote: Based on your completely ridiculous rationale, Justin Bieber is the greatest performer of all time and all bands, songwriters and musicians should take note and follow in his footsteps because they have so much to learn from him, right? They might. Because what sells Bieber is the marketing. Which is how folks got the iPod and iPad craze. You can make the best product in the world, but if it's not marketed well, it doesn't sell. If it doesn't sell, there's no money. If there's no money, there's no company. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2321	Posted - 2013.07.15 17:11:00 - [138] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Verunae Caseti wrote: Based on your completely ridiculous rationale, Justin Bieber is the greatest performer of all time and all bands, songwriters and musicians should take note and follow in his footsteps because they have so much to learn from him, right? They might. Because what sells Bieber is the marketing. Which is how folks got the iPod and iPad craze. You can make the best product in the world, but if it's not marketed well, it doesn't sell. If it doesn't sell, there's no money. If there's no money, there's no company. And yet CCP exists. How do you explain that. And as usual (due to your inherently dishonest nature) you fail yet again to address the posters actual post. Must everyone be Beiber, and can we have some cool garage bands with a few fans we like too?
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 460	Posted - 2013.07.15 17:32:00 - [139] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: And yet CCP exists. How do you explain that. That's right. Exists. Meanwhile, in Blizzard land, they thrive despite the changing market. They don't put all their eggs in one basket. They have 3 successful game franchises, based not only on marketing, but the reputation of making good games. They attract the best talent money can buy due to all of it. Now whales can have their game tailored to how they like, but it takes more than whales to get that game. It takes people and many people. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 3652	Posted - 2013.07.15 17:44:00 - [140] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Apple has enough cash on hand (~$150 Billion) that they could buy a controlling interest in Microsoft (Market Cap $300 Billion). Wouldn't matter, if they didn't exist. Apple exists because Microsoft saw an opportunity. Plastic Psycho wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Apple has enough cash on hand (~$150 Billion) that they could buy a controlling interest in Microsoft (Market Cap $300 Billion). True... Now. Wasn't always so. Do be aware of the history. Microsoft has a controlling market share in Operating systems now (as well as in the past). While the history of the two companies is interesting, it's irrelevant to the discussion of the situation now. Apple's survival is no longer in any way related to Microsoft's sufferance. Ace, name a western subscription MMO besides WOW that has more subscriptions than EVE Online. And show your data. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2322	Posted - 2013.07.15 17:52:00 - [141] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: And yet CCP exists. How do you explain that. That's right. Exists. Meanwhile, in Blizzard land, they thrive despite the changing market. And? What is your stake in it? Quote: They don't put all their eggs in one basket. They have 3 successful game franchises, based not only on marketing, but the reputation of making good games. They attract the best talent money can buy due to all of it. Now whales can have their game tailored to how they like, but it takes more than whales to get that game. It takes people and many people. Where, exactly are these EVE whales? I think the EVe gate swallowed them up. I'm going to take a gander here. You don't like something about EVE or the EVE community. You think ccp changing the game will attract more people like you (omg just saying that made me nauseous) and less people like...the EVE community. Or you think EVE is to hard and the kind of changes you want would be more fun for you (screw the holders of 500k accounts). The above is all speculation, because even if you were motivated by such incredible selfishness, it would not begin to explain your hatred of EVE Online and it's current status quo. If you don't enjoy what EVE is right now, why bother playing and participating in it's community that you seem to disdain? In short, what's you Deal?
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession 361	Posted - 2013.07.15 17:55:00 - [142] - Quote Why do these people play Eve? It's a sandbox, make some content or GB2-whatever single player game you were playing before this. CCP aren't spoon feeding content so if it is beyond your faculties to make/find some then don't bother playing. Capital Shop temporarily closed.
Plastic Psycho Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2013.07.15 18:05:00 - [143] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Verunae Caseti wrote: Based on your completely ridiculous rationale, Justin Bieber is the greatest performer of all time and all bands, songwriters and musicians should take note and follow in his footsteps because they have so much to learn from him, right? They might. Because what sells Bieber is the marketing. Which is how folks got the iPod and iPad craze.[ Bull. Utter poppycock. Quote: You can make the best product in the world, but if it's not marketed well, it doesn't sell. If it doesn't sell, there's no money. If there's no money, there's no company. CCP's product sells. So they're not kings of the world - so what? Bottom line: They produce a product, have done so for over a decade, and are still in business. The point of business isn't to win - The point of business is to keep on paying the bills, and keep on paying the workers and investors. End of subject. Doesn't matter what any other business does, so long as each specific business meets that goal. You keep popping off random numbers, but it's entirely clear you've got no idea what you're talking about.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2322	Posted - 2013.07.15 18:05:00 - [144] - Quote IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote: Why do these people play Eve? It's a sandbox, make some content or GB2-whatever single player game you were playing before this. CCP aren't spoon feeding content so if it is beyond your faculties to make/find some then don't bother playing. that's really well said. I have tried to introduce a few people to EVE. Most didn't stay. the ones who liked a challenged and could deal with the uneasiness of the unknown stayed and we play together all the time. The one's who needed scripted gameplay didn't stay at all. It's ok, that's why there are different games, I only played WoW for like 16 months because my friends did, but I hated the grind and other aspects of the game just didn't hold my attention.
Mina Sebiestar Mactabilis Simplex Cursus 387	Posted - 2013.07.15 18:15:00 - [145] - Quote IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote: Why do these people play Eve? It's a sandbox, make some content or GB2-whatever single player game you were playing before this. CCP aren't spoon feeding content so if it is beyond your faculties to make/find some then don't bother playing. Il go ahead and say that ppl play this game because internet space ships.. and since when sandbox mean that primitive game mechanic is valid and anyone saying that it should be improved is just another wow kid? I stop using analog tv too maybe you should try it HD/3d/motion sensors..there is whole world out there man trust me... http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
Jimmy Morane Aurora Novae Aetatis Expoit This Mf's 109	Posted - 2013.07.15 19:08:00 - [146] - Quote De'Veldrin wrote: I wish we had negative thumbs for this forum. Self esteem issues be damned, give me the red pen CCP. Failure of this magnitude should hurt. A lot. Also would like a facepalm button that puts a little Picard-like icon on the person's post.
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 864	Posted - 2013.07.15 19:10:00 - [147] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: This is why EVE should never EVEr be something that the Ace Uoweme's of the world would like and flock to. One of the best features of EVE is that it has no 'levels" a smart player with a lower "skilled" char can beat a dumb guy with 100 mil skill points. not like in other games where your level 70 or something night elf witchcraft chcuker is invincible to lower level characters no matter how stupid the guy at the controls is. It's ok that people like those other MMOs, leave EVE alone. People like you Jenn, spend more time mocking, than thinking. You're like Burger King with the negative ads, and just don't "get it" why McDonald's will always be #1 (they don't use negative ads). 9 million players enjoy WoW. 500k play EvE. That's all you really need to know. Spin those ships with excuses, but it's clear what sells. Following your amayzing logic, Justin Bieber music is better than that of Mozart's. You can't compare kindergarten themepark mmo-rpg's with a sandbox mmo-rpg game, it's like comparing chess with sonic the hedgehog. And btw, if 9 million players played EvE Online, i would most likely not play it, since the game i love wouldn't exist anymore. The Tears Must Flow
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 461	Posted - 2013.07.15 19:14:00 - [148] - Quote Vaju Enki wrote: Following your amayzing logic, Justin Bieber music is better than that of Mozart's. Following your "amayzing logic", you'll connect Bieber with Mozart and not marketing. /facepalm "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 865	Posted - 2013.07.15 19:18:00 - [149] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Vaju Enki wrote: Following your amayzing logic, Justin Bieber music is better than that of Mozart's. Following your "amayzing logic", you'll connect Bieber with Mozart and not marketing. /facepalm You either dumb or a massive troll. At least you didn't write the word "WoW" on a post. The Tears Must Flow
Murk Paradox Red Tsunami The Cursed Few 429	Posted - 2013.07.15 19:24:00 - [150] - Quote Ban Bindy wrote: Quote from http://www.eveonline.com/sandbox/ >The Sandbox is the game world of EVE combined with the persistent actions of thousands upon thousands of players who interact with one another in a single-server environment. Your actions in the Sandbox can lead to the destruction of starships, the creation of a thriving corporation or the doom of an empire. Every action taken by every player affects the state of the Sandbox, and through it those actions affect every other player. The web of action and reaction in EVE leads to emergent gameplay where a single shot, business deal or even just a word can determine the destiny of thousands.< This is Eve's beginning description of the sandbox. Please point out to me where it says "This game is about PVP and all the mechanics of the game will lead you to PVP. Follow the links that help you select your career. Show me where all the career paths end in "This game is about PVP and sooner or later you will figure that out." There's one mission in military career tutorials that teaches you about loss and you have to sacrifice a ship in order to complete the tutorial. There is also a tutorial about how to update your clone. These are both accessed very early on after logging in the game. Before anything you will ever learn about "margin trading" or "plexing". "Never rub another man's rhubarb." -Joker in Batman (Jack Nicholson) Just get a catalyst, blow him up and the post in local "Just a friendly reminder that I'm mining here and not you." -Abrazzar

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