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Murk Paradox Red Tsunami The Cursed Few 429	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:17:00 - [181] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Murk Paradox wrote: Everquest, which predates both WoW and Eve, had I think 3mil accounts at around the same time Eve launched. Not sure on the current subscribers now (they went F2p) but they are still in existence and going strong. /shrug Largest MMO at that time was EQII (coming off of EQ) with a player base of around 500k (2005 showed 500k). Big in MMOs didn't occur until WoW surged forward in 2006 with the release of The Burning Crusade. Peaking to around 12 million in 2010 in the Wrath of the Lich King. I'm talking about before Planes of Power and only getting into the introduction of Alternate Abilities and before they started having to merge servers. EQ was very very popular back then. Before AC and the other spinoffs, before WoW, before Eve. My point was... at the time there was a huge bottleneck to the gaming industry. EQ springboarded that genre and the floodgates opened. "Never rub another man's rhubarb." -Joker in Batman (Jack Nicholson) Just get a catalyst, blow him up and the post in local "Just a friendly reminder that I'm mining here and not you." -Abrazzar
Elizabeth Aideron GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 100	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:25:00 - [182] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Elizabeth Aideron wrote: plex accounts are paid Paid sporadically like the F2P model. PLEX is F2P. Take the window dressing off of it, it operates just the same. Alt accounts (the m-a-n-y alt accounts that exist in EvE) are operated solely on PLEXing. So in the end, it's still a game for whales. Well, in The Forge there are an average of 100k PLEX sold every month. If we correlate that directly to accounts, that means 100k accounts are PLEXed. Of course, there are sales in regions other than The Forge, but there are also PLEX speculators. Estimates of the number of accounts per player have varied from 1.3 to 2.5 depending on time and source, so there are likely many alt accounts that are not PLEXed, with PLEXed accounts being a small portion of the total. This is in direct contrast to F2P games, where most people never pay a cent to the developer, with a few people bringing in lots of purchases.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15523	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:31:00 - [183] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Considering that you can Google, Ruby, that evidence is right before your eyes. In other words, you have no sources and no data. Quote: Paid sporadically like the F2P model. PLEX is F2P. GÇªif by GÇ£sporadicallyGÇ¥ you mean GÇ£once every 30 days, just like all other subscription formsGÇ¥ and if by GÇ£F2PGÇ¥ you mean GÇ£can't play without payingGÇ¥. That sounds rather non-sporadic and non-F2P. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Verunae Caseti Viziam Amarr Empire 139	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:43:00 - [184] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Paid sporadically like the F2P model. PLEX is F2P. Take the window dressing off of it, it operates just the same. Absolute, unequivocal nonsense. One PLEX = 30 days of game time. They are functionally and financially equivalent to subscription payments. Company finances function on a quarterly basis; it's not like CCP sends a rep over to the bank every day to collect the day's take in order to pay the bills and the guy at the bank says "Oh, sorry guys, too many PLEXers today, I guess you're going to have to go hungry" and then CCP goes a month without air conditioning or bagels. PLEX has nothing in common with F2P whatsoever. Again, something you must know because it doesn't take much more than a funcitoning cerebellum and a basic grasp of base-10 number systems to tell the difference.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 463	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:58:00 - [185] - Quote Verunae Caseti wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Paid sporadically like the F2P model. PLEX is F2P. Take the window dressing off of it, it operates just the same. Absolute, unequivocal nonsense. One PLEX = 30 days of game time for a single account. PLEX can also be bought to sell for ISK. Which is exactly what can be done in F2P games to buy gold. You need to see what PLEX really is, not just sugar coat it. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Alpheias Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse 2241	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:03:00 - [186] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Verunae Caseti wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Paid sporadically like the F2P model. PLEX is F2P. Take the window dressing off of it, it operates just the same. Absolute, unequivocal nonsense. One PLEX = 30 days of game time for a single account. PLEX can also be bought to sell for ISK. Which is exactly what can be done in F2P games to buy gold. You need to see what PLEX really is, not just sugar coat it. People can sell GTCs in WoW for gold.. Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 463	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:06:00 - [187] - Quote Elizabeth Aideron wrote: Well, in The Forge there are an average of 100k PLEX sold every month. Even at 200k PLEX that's $3,990,000 spent every month. Now you can see why F2P is a losing battle? Blizzard can sell a pony and get more money off of it the next day, than 8 months of PLEX. Got to have the players. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15523	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:07:00 - [188] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: PLEX can also be bought to sell for ISK. GÇªbut not created, and not only once in a while when you feel like it. They require real cash and demand it at regular intervals. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of how F2P games work. Also, trying to buy GÇ£goldGÇ¥ for cash in EVE lands you with a negative walletGÇª Quote: Now you can see why F2P is a losing battle? Seeing as how F2P games are earning cash by the bucketload if properly designed for it, no. And neither do the game companies. Not that it really matters to EVE, though, since it's not a F2P game and CCP have long since figured out that it's pretty much impossible to turn it into one. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 463	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:12:00 - [189] - Quote Alpheias wrote: People can sell GTCs in WoW for gold.. If they were foolish enough to buy them, when the game has so much gold now to begin with. Just questing have enough to pick up 3k a day. More than enough to buy anything needed. The problem in WoW is having gold sinks now, not needing gold. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Elizabeth Aideron GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 101	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:15:00 - [190] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Elizabeth Aideron wrote: Well, in The Forge there are an average of 100k PLEX sold every month. Even at 200k PLEX that's $3,990,000 spent every month. Now you can see why F2P is a losing battle? Blizzard can sell a pony and get more money off of it the next day, than 8 months of PLEX. Got to have the players. Why are you arguing a completely different point now? EVE isn't primarily a game for whales like you claimed.
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions Caldari State 7	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:17:00 - [191] - Quote To make PvE feel less like a drag, it has to be made more like PvP, which means: ) every rat has a warp scrambler or disruptor - and yes that means they can shut down your MWD ) some rats have webs ) rats using MWD whenever they can, not just to approach player ) rats using strong buffer tanks ) rats running away from player that is more powerful than them - unless player uses warp disruption on them ) rats calling for backup to gank a player at is fighting a smaller group *) rats having special ships that use all forms of EW Are you sure you want EVE PvE to be interesting? I think most people prefer the boring grind
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 463	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:35:00 - [192] - Quote Elizabeth Aideron wrote: Why are you arguing a completely different point now? EVE isn't primarily a game for whales like you claimed. No. Same point. EvE makes it's cash on those whales. Kids otherwise who can't afford it, PLEX. Those wanting an army of gatecamping IsBox accounts, PLEX. Your own Goons admit they can sweet talk their way to 5 PLEX a month. They're not paying, some whale is. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Khoul Ay'd Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 80	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:38:00 - [193] - Quote I grow so weary of "Boo-hoo, CCP/EVE is (dead/dying/cheating/unfair)" No one is making you or anyone else play this game nor are they telling you how to play it (That may possibly occur on Serenity, but that's an entirely different matter). I've played this game for just short of five years now and still feel as though I've only scratched the surface of all that is possible. Is some of the content stale, yeah, but no one is forcing you to play that way. If its lost it's luster, try something new or move on, just cause you no longer are fascinated by New Eden does not mean that's true for the rest of us. Really, if you don't like it leave. And no, I don't want your stuff for fear I may be infected with a whatever causes your sour outlook. The things we do today we must live with forever.... Think about it
Elizabeth Aideron GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 101	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:38:00 - [194] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Elizabeth Aideron wrote: Why are you arguing a completely different point now? EVE isn't primarily a game for whales like you claimed. No. Same point. EvE makes it's cash on those whales. Kids otherwise who can't afford it, PLEX. Those wanting an army of gatecamping IsBox accounts, PLEX. Your own Goons admit they can sweet talk their way to 5 PLEX a month. They're not paying, some whale is. And all those PLEX purchases are still only a fraction of the actual game subscriptions. The whales aren't very big.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15523	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:41:00 - [195] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: EvE makes it's cash on those whales. [citation needed] Quote: They're not paying, some whale is. GÇªwhich still doesn't make it a F2P game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 463	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:52:00 - [196] - Quote Murk Paradox wrote: I'm talking about before Planes of Power and only getting into the introduction of Alternate Abilities and before they started having to merge servers. EQ was very very popular back then. Before AC and the other spinoffs, before WoW, before Eve. My point was... at the time there was a huge bottleneck to the gaming industry. EQ springboarded that genre and the floodgates opened. It never had 3 million subs though. Millions have played the game, but not millions of subs. EQII was suppose to usher in the new MMO, but fumbled not only with the engine, but going to war against players (around 2005, when it peaked in subs, around 500k). That's how WoW got it's springboard. After 2006 it was all history (even though vanilla and TBC weren't really good. It took WotLK to finally get some polish into WoW, and make sense of the class abilities and gear even). But that was offered and anyone at Wal-Mart could pick up the game to play. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 463	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:54:00 - [197] - Quote Tippia wrote: which still doesn't make it a F2P game. [citation needed] "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Schalac Apocalypse Reign 320	Posted - 2013.07.15 23:14:00 - [198] - Quote I believe there is great PvE in EVE, you just need to get out of the level 4 mission grind to find it. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15523	Posted - 2013.07.15 23:23:00 - [199] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: [citation needed] No. It's not an F2P by very definition, since you need a paid-for account to play. Quote: It never had 3 million subs though. Millions have played the game, but not millions of subs. How did you play it without a sub, seeing as how it was a subscription-based game? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Verunae Caseti Viziam Amarr Empire 140	Posted - 2013.07.15 23:28:00 - [200] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: [citation needed] PLEX costs money. Citation provided, you ridiculous goober. It doesn't matter whether the cash comes from 30,000 people or one person buying 30,000 PLEX. EVE is not F2P.
Diomedes Calypso Aetolian Armada 105	Posted - 2013.07.16 00:57:00 - [201] - Quote Verunae Caseti wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: [citation needed] PLEX costs money. Citation provided, you ridiculous goober. It doesn't matter whether the cash comes from 30,000 people or one person buying 30,000 PLEX. EVE is not F2P. Ok, So, If I got to an event where someone else pays for the caterer, I'm not getting free food? I will agree that the REASON that CCP is agreeing to let me have 6 active accounts is that some other guyse bought extra tickets they gave to me. together, those guys paid for 6 times game play. I paid for nothing - $(or euro etc) revenues coming from a focused subsegment of customers is a meaningful metric to finance types If a tech materials company derived 80% of its sales and profits from one customer... say 80% of their sales were to Samsung... they will assess the risk and stability of the earnings differently than if the sales were spread more evenly among many vendors and even more differently if there were multiple lines of products the company sold less related the specific end products Samsung sold (say they produced a rfd device used both in phones but also in oil well monitoring devices). The distribution graphs (multiple) of 1) the number of accounts per player 2) the number of plex purchased with isk per player 3) the number of plex purchased(or created via gtc conversion) per player are relevant number in terms of who they could not afford to lose from the game. It would be wise for them to pay particular attention to the play motivations of those using RL money to purchase plex the risk of losing me as a player that uses 6 plex paid for with isk that is a by product of my game play recreational goals would hurt far more financially than the type of guy who uses $ to buy those subscriptions for me I would never dream of paying real $ for 6 accounts (although I'd probably pay real money for 1, tops 2) .. they lose him, they lose 6 x 15$ = $90 . They lose me, they lose maybe a latent $15 I'd pay if I had to use $.. far less costly a loss. The distribution could be quite alarming if they found that the 10 % of the human players bought 30% of the plex , and/or the top 20% of players in terms of purchasing plex with real money bought 80% of the GTCs converted to plex. I don' think think those guesses are outlandish. It is just as subjective for someone to ignore the issue because they don't have data to define i precisely as for people to offer their own best guess. You can't deny there are people like me and multi boxers who have 10 or 15 accounts. I'm sure you've also heard of people buying a few dozen or more to purchase a 60 million sp ... 20 billion isk character. Those ends of the spectrum while smaller in numbers of People are quite significant as a portion of revenues on the $ side and relevance of the number of active accounts as an indicator of growing popularity or not of the game. Also important, is to know what sort of play those people using real $ like ... I know they don't play for the same reasons I do .... if you play the game to keep score by piling up isk ... you don't go out and buy yourself the pile of isk you challeng yourself to get.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 464	Posted - 2013.07.16 01:17:00 - [202] - Quote Verunae Caseti wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: [citation needed] PLEX costs money. Citation provided, you ridiculous goober. It doesn't matter whether the cash comes from 30,000 people or one person buying 30,000 PLEX. EVE is not F2P. Ah, no citation. Can't back anything up but with a personal opinion. You can't get that info, anyhow. Oh, it matters where the money comes from, because someone is paying more so others can play for free -- just like the F2P games operate. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15523	Posted - 2013.07.16 01:46:00 - [203] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Ah, no citation. Can't back anything up but with a personal opinion. Yes, that's a pretty apt description of yourself. It's nice to see you're become so self-aware. So I take it you can't prove any of what you claimed? Quote: You can't get that info, anyhow. What info exactly? The info that all accounts are paid for? That EVE does not operate on a F2P model? All of that is common knowledge directly provided by the account management site and by the devs. Or are you talking about your unfounded nonsense about how EVE makes its money on PLEXes rather than subscriptions? Because, you know, we actually can get that informationGÇª and it doesn't point to what you're claiming. Quote: it matters where the money comes from No, it doesn't, because at the end of the day, it comes down to a very simple fact: if your account isn't paid for, you can't play. This is the fundamental difference between EVE (and any other subscription-based game) and a F2P game: in an F2P my account remains active for as long as the game remains active, without me doing anything. In EVE, my account remains active only as long as I pay for it. Just because I pay for it in PLEX (=subscription money that has gone to CCP) rather than through a subscription (=subscription money that has gone to CCP) doesn't mean it's not being directly paid for. Your problem is that you incorrectly equate a subscription with other income sources. F2P games rely on those other income sources; subscription games rely on subscriptions. EVE has pretty much none of the former and all of the latter. The simple fact remains: EVE is not a F2P game, by very definition, as shown by the requirement to have a paid-for account in order to play the game. Diomedes Calypso wrote: Ok, So, If I got to an event where someone else pays for the caterer, I'm not getting free food? GÇªbut that's not what's happening in EVE. Here, you're getting food that you paid for through the cover charge of the event. Just because you didn't personally stick the bundles of cash into the hands of the caterer doesn't mean you're at a free-to-eat:ery. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Verunae Caseti Viziam Amarr Empire 140	Posted - 2013.07.16 02:11:00 - [204] - Quote Diomedes Calypso wrote: So, If I got to an event where someone else pays for the caterer, I'm not getting free food? The food is free from your perspective (players) but not from that of the caterer's (CCP). They still made the same amount of money as they would have if the event had been $50 per plate instead of the event-planner paying $2500 up front for 50 plate's worth of food. Every active account in EVE represent money in CCP's pocket; so EVE is quite obviously NOT F2P by any industry-accepted definition of the term. F2P is a type of payment model; not simply a phrase describing an individual player's experience. Yes, you're playing for free but that doesn't make the game "F2P." Quote: relevant number in terms of who they could not afford to lose from the game. It would be wise for them to pay particular attention to the play motivations of those using RL money to purchase plex the risk of losing me as a player that uses 6 plex paid for with isk that is a by product of my game play recreational goals would hurt far more financially than the type of guy who uses $ to buy those subscriptions for me Not true. Both of you play an equally important role. If players who pay for PLEX quit the game, the supply of PLEX drops and therefore the price rises. Higher PLEX mean fewer players able/willing to afford monthly PLEX to drive their accounts, therefore potentially driving them away from the game or forcing CCP to cut into its profits by seeding PLEX to keep the price under control. Players who buy PLEX quit means the demand for PLEX drops which means its in-game ISK value falls, meaning fewer people will be motivated to purchase PLEX and that's less money for CCP. So they have a vested financial interest in catering to both types of players, and the presence of each creates a postitive feedback-loop that keeps the revenue stream healthy for CCP. That is the fundamental genius of the system. Of course, all of this is beside the main point - regardless of who is more imporatant EVE is not F2p. Ace Uoweme wrote: Oh, it matters where the money comes from, because someone is paying more so others can play for free -- just like the F2P games operate. That is not how F2P games operate. You're just flat out wrong. Nothing really to elaborate on there. You're just wrong.
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 3659	Posted - 2013.07.16 02:14:00 - [205] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: RubyPorto wrote: But not evidence, of course. Putting evidence of your wild ~~lies~~ claims on the forums would be crazy. Considering that you can Google, Ruby, that evidence is right before your eyes. Maybe if you take that monocle off, you might can see that, instead of focusing on the losses in Fountain and so butthurt about it. 1) You make the claim, the burden is on you to provide evidence to back it. 2) Before asking you to prove the claim, I looked and cannot find evidence of another western subscription MMO aside from WOW that has more subscriptions than EVE. 3) I also cannot find evidence of any MMO that has sustained year on year growth the way EVE has (there is a distinct initial boom then decline common in MMOs that EVE simply doesn't exhibit). 4) I also could not find any evidence of the average number of accounts per player being on the rise. So, if the evidence is that obvious (and actually exists), surely you won't have any problem providing it. As for Fountain, SniggWaffe's in Black Rise at the moment, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Ace Uoweme wrote: Paid sporadically like the F2P model. PLEX is F2P. Take the window dressing off of it, it operates just the same. Alt accounts (the m-a-n-y alt accounts that exist in EvE) are operated solely on PLEXing. So in the end, it's still a game for whales. And a PLEX is only ever created by someone spending between $17.49 and $19.99 USD (or equivalent local currency). CCP gets between $10.95 and $14.95 USD per month for someone paying directly. Each PLEXed account earns CCP between $2.54 and $9.05 USD per month MORE than they otherwise would have earned (and that's ignoring the possibility that without PLEX some of the accounts would not exist). How do you think PLEX are born? Does it involve storks? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 464	Posted - 2013.07.16 02:17:00 - [206] - Quote [quote=Tippia]Yes, that's a pretty apt description of yourself. It's nice to see you're become so self-aware. So I take it you can't prove any of what you claimed?[/quote] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man plonk "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 678	Posted - 2013.07.16 02:18:00 - [207] - Quote Verunae Caseti wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Oh, it matters where the money comes from, because someone is paying more so others can play for free -- just like the F2P games operate. That is not how F2P games operate. You're just flat out wrong. Nothing really to elaborate on there. You're just wrong. Actually yes it is. It's the paying players that keep the game profitable, which in turn keeps it operating. If no one uses the cash shop an F2P won't keep running. The relationship is just less structured and direct than plex.
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 3659	Posted - 2013.07.16 02:21:00 - [208] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: [quote=Tippia]Yes, that's a pretty apt description of yourself. It's nice to see you're become so self-aware. So I take it you can't prove any of what you claimed?[/quote] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man plonk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof You made a series of claims. You have still yet to provide a single shred of evidence to support them. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 3659	Posted - 2013.07.16 02:25:00 - [209] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Verunae Caseti wrote: Ace Uoweme wrote: Oh, it matters where the money comes from, because someone is paying more so others can play for free -- just like the F2P games operate. That is not how F2P games operate. You're just flat out wrong. Nothing really to elaborate on there. You're just wrong. Actually yes it is. It's the paying players that keep the game profitable, which in turn keeps it operating. If no one uses the cash shop an F2P won't keep running. The relationship is just less structured and direct than plex. The Cash shop in F2P games represents the game company giving the player in game items in exchange for cash. That is simply not what happens when you buy a PLEX and sell it to another player for in game cash. In addition, in a F2P game, you can continue playing without the developer receiving a dime in compensation as a result of your play. You cannot do that in EVE (CCP always gets their monthly pint of blood from each and every active account). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15523	Posted - 2013.07.16 02:30:00 - [210] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man No. It's the only conclusion of your inability to provide any kind of support for your claims. Alternatively, if what I said was a strawman, it means that when I'm saying that you're trying to claim something, you really aren't. So in other words, nothing of what you have said is any kind of statement about reality, but rather just some incoherent rambling with no connection to anything. Is this your final answer? Or are you going to provide any kind of evidence to support what you claimed? Tyberius Franklin wrote: Actually yes it is. Actually, no it isn't. F2P games operate by letting people play without paying for it GÇö their accounts remain active as long as the game does. Instead, they try teasing them with other very handy services that they will pay for instead. These services will be enough to cover for the running cost of the servers, and the individual account doesn't matter. Playing the game draws you in, but costs nothing; making the gameplay more convenient and GÇ£funGÇ¥ costs. Subscription games, such as EVE, operate by not letting people play without paying for it GÇö their accounts only remain active as long as the subscription is paid for. These individual subscriptions are all that matter, since they, rather than any coincidental support services, is what keeps the servers running. Keeping your accounts going with PLEX still means doing exactly that: paying to keep the account active (without which you can't play). Playing the game GÇö in and of itself GÇö costs; the fun and convenience comes included. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.

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