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hellraiser 2
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Posted - 2005.12.09 12:15:00 -
[1]
Edited by: hellraiser 2 on 09/12/2005 12:27:40 Edited by: hellraiser 2 on 09/12/2005 12:27:03 Is it just me or does anyone else think that 1bil for the carrier skill and 5bil for the titan skill is going a bit overboard. There is no reason to have skills so expensive when the ships are already too expensive for 99% of the eve player base. The only problem i see with this is you have the small carriers costing 600-700mil to make and the skill cost nearly double. Also if we compare these to the freighter skill price of 75mil and dreadnaught skill price of 100mil you can see how excessive they are.
This just seems like another example of CCP creating yet another isk sink in the game.
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Andrymeda
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Posted - 2005.12.09 13:20:00 -
[2]
They are special ships. Lets not forget the skills you need to train to use certain capital mods.
Some of these have a high level of lethality, so there are restrictions as to where you can go with them as well. I doubt anyone will use them on missions, but I gather they are for fleet deployments and conquering systems with POS deployed.
Thus, expect certain alliances (with rather large corporation in them) to be the first to have those ships and only ones to use them for a while.
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Rodge
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Posted - 2005.12.09 14:22:00 -
[3]
These ships are far more useful and powerful than a dreadnaught, and should be very rare indeed.
So I think these prices are quite fair. 1b, really isn't an excessive amount of money anyway.
(And before you ask, no I can't afford them either atm)
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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DarkMatters
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Posted - 2005.12.09 15:05:00 -
[4]
1 bill is far to much to fly a 750m? ship, yea its proberbly the price it is because of the mouther ship running off the same skill.
3.6 mill = battleship skill to fly a ship between 64-120 mill 1 bill = to fly a 700m ship?
cant make sense
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.12.09 15:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: DarkMatters 1 bill is far to much to fly a 750m? ship, yea its proberbly the price it is because of the mouther ship running off the same skill.
3.6 mill = battleship skill to fly a ship between 64-120 mill 1 bill = to fly a 700m ship?
cant make sense
bah i was looking foward to flying a carrier, 33mils SP and i got nothing else to train, but at a cost of 1bil for the book :/ well i cant offord 1bil + 800mils for the skill + ship
wish skill would be more modest in price
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2005.12.09 15:13:00 -
[6]
if you can afford a carrier, then you can afford the skill
unless you think you'd never lose a carrier in battle, yeah right
Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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MOS DEF
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Posted - 2005.12.09 15:38:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tiuwaz if you can afford a carrier, then you can afford the skill
unless you think you'd never lose a carrier in battle, yeah right
It's a tech 1 ship. Insurance will be prolly about 200 mill so yes i could afford a carrier but not a carrier + skill.
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.12.09 15:44:00 -
[8]
Agreed it is insane, sure i know ccp want to increase subscription ammounts (i.e longer skill trains, higher costs) but at what cost? turning eve into a evergrind?
christ id love to pvp all day its just unrealistic as a) im **** at pvp and b) pvp isnt very rewarding due to the lack of a randsom system.
100mil would be more "realistic" for the skill, these beasts still need alot of training why exclude people because of the fact. 5bil for the titan seems steep too but I apreciate i will never get to fly one, just see all this new stuff being released for people who ebay and own T2 bpo's and have to feel jelous.
Author of "The Apoc Guide" |
Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2005.12.09 15:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jim Steele Agreed it is insane, sure i know ccp want to increase subscription ammounts (i.e longer skill trains, higher costs) but at what cost? turning eve into a evergrind?
I have to agree I mean lets face it why add the two new construction reqs at the last min if they did not want to push up the isk sink value?
One billion is just far to much, and not in keeping with any other skill price in the game.
------------------------------------------------- Contribute to the buy Hohenheim a carrier fund in game now! |
Dahin
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Posted - 2005.12.09 16:05:00 -
[10]
1b is fair tbh
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Micklaine
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Posted - 2005.12.09 16:34:00 -
[11]
Everything I'm reading says the carrier will be a lot more than 750m. 750m appears to be the build cost (and probably higher). Last time I checked people don't sell at cost. Add in the novelty of the new ships, and the price will be billions--with an "s". So the skill is more in line with those numbers.
-Mick
Just Micklaine. You know, like Madonna. Or Cher. Or other people who forgot to give themselves last names at character creation. |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.12.09 16:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dahin 1b is fair tbh
if we're talking about the motherships, yeah. -------------------
Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you |
Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2005.12.09 16:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: MOS DEF
Originally by: Tiuwaz if you can afford a carrier, then you can afford the skill
unless you think you'd never lose a carrier in battle, yeah right
It's a tech 1 ship. Insurance will be prolly about 200 mill so yes i could afford a carrier but not a carrier + skill.
i dare say that the fittings+fighters will cost 500mill+ aswell, i am not a producer so i might be wrong, could any producer who had a good look at carriers already give some numbers?
Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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MOS DEF
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Posted - 2005.12.09 16:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tiuwaz
Originally by: MOS DEF
Originally by: Tiuwaz if you can afford a carrier, then you can afford the skill
unless you think you'd never lose a carrier in battle, yeah right
It's a tech 1 ship. Insurance will be prolly about 200 mill so yes i could afford a carrier but not a carrier + skill.
i dare say that the fittings+fighters will cost 500mill+ aswell, i am not a producer so i might be wrong, could any producer who had a good look at carriers already give some numbers?
A fighter costs 15 million in minerals.
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2005.12.09 16:56:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Tiuwaz on 09/12/2005 16:59:05 a small minmatar carrier can have 18 fighters in their hold, thats already 270 mill then +fittings
also i think the high prices for carrier/titan skill are aimed at preventing the access a bit. which is fine, they are intended as corp/alliance weapons, not everyone should be able to fly one
Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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StarLite
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Posted - 2005.12.09 16:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: StarLite on 09/12/2005 17:01:38
Originally by: Micklaine 750m appears to be the build cost (and probably higher).
-25% at max skills when built at a POS/Outpost Captial Ship Manufactirung thingie, so closer to 550 mil actually. Dont forget corps will build these mainly for their own members, I don't know about your corp, but most of em sell ships to corpmates for buildcost :)
So lets say 750 mil for the ship + equip 1 bil for the carrier skill 400 mil for capital ships 45 for Advanced spaceship control
Including gun/drone skills this is 1,5 BILLION isk for the skills to fly a 750 mil [FITTED!] ship. Offcourse you can also fly a mothership and dreads with almost the same skills at the same time, but still: If you just want to fly a carrier [like a lot of people do] the initial investment in skills seems VERY high. ___________________________________________________
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2005.12.09 17:06:00 -
[17]
is that -25% really gonna come? last time i saw that mentioned was by Oveur a month ago. And at that time it didnt sound like it was hammered in stone.
Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.12.09 18:16:00 -
[18]
Few things to consider:
1) This restricts the number of people flying the ship - cheap skills would make it easy to have several pilots flying it whenever; expensive skills mean you're probably only going to have one or two pilots qualified
2) A skill is a fixed, one-time investment; you're never going to lose that billion. The carrier itself, on the other hand, can be destroyed. Maybe safer to have the primary investment in the skill than the hardware.
3) Moving the investment in this way means you can make build costs less, which crucially means less minerals needed. This reduces the amount of mining that needs to be done if you're getting your own, reduces the amount of building that can be done "free" with enough miners, and prevents excess strain on the markets. If carriers are going to be affordable then a fair number of people will want one, and that translates into a lot of minerals. If there's a mineral shortfall in this respect, prices are going to rocket.
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Shayla Sh'inlux
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Posted - 2005.12.09 18:19:00 -
[19]
Isk sink = good.
Last thing I want to see is carriers becoming the new battleships. 750mil +cost for fighters is dirt cheap for a capital ship IMO.
Good thing they have these ridiculous isk requirements. A megacorp *might* assign a Carrier Pilot. A rich alliance will have ONE Titan (maybe) and like 4 (two per TZ) pilots to fly it.
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.12.09 18:35:00 -
[20]
Actually, when you add the capital ship skill and the carrier skill, it is 1.3 billion for the skill to fly a carrier. Already got the capital ship skill and will get the carrier skill on patch day.
-who is selling amarr carriers?
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Teh Shaz
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Posted - 2005.12.09 18:46:00 -
[21]
I'm accepting donations to my wallet for carrier skillbook
It's a mixed blessing for the carrier and mothership to req same skills. The good part is if you ever eventually get into a super rich corp or what not you can fly the mothership ::drools::
It is just a huge isk sink for the average player. But, it doubles your character worth -------------------
http://vasa-forever.com/dire/graphics/shaz_wor.jpg
YAAAR!
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.12.09 19:31:00 -
[22]
1 bill is an asinine price to pay to fly a Carrier.
1 bill is ok to fly a Mothership...
------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE |
Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2005.12.09 20:54:00 -
[23]
I dont know people still call the large carrier a mother ships its not a mother ship, is a large carrier.
------------------------------------------------- Contribute to the buy Hohenheim a carrier fund in game now! |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.12.09 20:58:00 -
[24]
I just finished working out how much cash it costs to fly a Carrier 1.587 billon for the skill books alone. (assuming you donĘt have any capital skill books already trained like Jump Drive operation or Advanced Spaceship Command)
Carrier 1 billon (unconfirmed) Jump Drive operation 10 million Jump Drive Calibration 30 million Jump Drive Fuel Conservation 20 million Capital Ships 400 million Capital Amour repairer 17.5million Advanced Spaceship Command 50 million Capital Remote Armor Repair Systems 10 million (assuming you want to do this, the ship gets a bonus to them.) Fighters 50 million
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.12.09 22:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight I dont know people still call the large carrier a mother ships its not a mother ship, is a large carrier.
Originally by: Last but two dev blog title carriers and motherships and also titans
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.12.10 05:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Micklaine Everything I'm reading says the carrier will be a lot more than 750m. 750m appears to be the build cost (and probably higher). Last time I checked people don't sell at cost. Add in the novelty of the new ships, and the price will be billions--with an "s". So the skill is more in line with those numbers.
Last time I check, people tend to sell at cost or below (I know it sounds stupid, but check the markets). So after a few months, yeah, you will be buying them like freighters, just above cost.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.12.10 11:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tiuwaz
also i think the high prices for carrier/titan skill are aimed at preventing the access a bit. which is fine, they are intended as corp/alliance weapons, not everyone should be able to fly one
I realy, realy, realy dislike that.
I just can't stand that crappy line of 'they are intended for x' not everybody should be able to have/use one.
It's just sad, i and others pay there money to play.... why should they be denied new content just because they chose to play their game in another fashion.
Im sorry it just stinks of elitism, and for what, many people in alliances are only there so they can just gain access to eve's greater riches anyway. They certainly arn't anymore deserving than anyone else.
Im in a one man corp, ill be certainly getting a carrier to augment my dreads, and maybe if i can work it.. a full on mothership, i can do the grind on that... just the system of building isn't easy, but i reckon there's a way.
As for the skill itself, they should have differentiated the two, mothership, carrier.
When you consider the price of the freighter, dreadnaught skills, the carrier skill is waaay out of line for it's bottom end variant.
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She says It's only in my head She says Shhh I know it's only in my head
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MWEI
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Posted - 2005.12.10 15:14:00 -
[28]
Always interesting to see how people come up with "reasonable" arguments that destroys the game
If everyone flys around carriers solo, would eve still be fun? There have been mmorpgs getting ruind because of "reasonable arguments", which lead to ulber setups being aviliable to everyone, and nobody plays the game anymore because nobody uses anything other than ulber equipments.
Why everyone wants to solo the carrier anyway? Its on the same class with dreadnaughts, I dont see anyone getting bored and do some 0.0 lv4 missions in dreads anytime soon.
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MOS DEF
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Posted - 2005.12.10 16:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: MWEI Always interesting to see how people come up with "reasonable" arguments that destroys the game
If everyone flys around carriers solo, would eve still be fun? There have been mmorpgs getting ruind because of "reasonable arguments", which lead to ulber setups being aviliable to everyone, and nobody plays the game anymore because nobody uses anything other than ulber equipments.
Why everyone wants to solo the carrier anyway? Its on the same class with dreadnaughts, I dont see anyone getting bored and do some 0.0 lv4 missions in dreads anytime soon.
That has only one reason. Dmg output sucks and they are too slow. Doing it in a BS is faster. Other than that you'd see peeps using them if no enemy blob is close.
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Miramax
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Posted - 2005.12.10 17:58:00 -
[30]
Damn thats steep
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