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Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
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Posted - 2013.07.17 01:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
For a single pilot eve player wanting to wh mine, is there a point? I seriously feel like I would be more satisfied sitting in jita holding my ankles. At least there, someone MIGHT refuse.
Does CCP really honestly want to drive people out of WH's? Do they just not give a flying shot at intercourse with a rolling doughnut? WHO THOUGHT THIS **** THROUGH!?
I'd rather sit bouncing off a warpgate in a titan, because there's a chance I could get away!
Good GOD CCP. WHY?! What is the motivation? I'm not screaming for the sake of being a jerk, I really really honestly want to know why you would turn miners into even more of a f'n porkchop and THEN give a pack of rabid hungry dogs; directions, fuel, and a f'n warp in point with NO EFFORT AT ALL.
Scenario goes like this: I'm in a pos, and hop into a mining ship (venture, whatever). Oops, someone's already cloaked at the grav site.
Scenario two goes like this: Scout ship with disruptor scan's into system and sees mining ship on scan, warps directly to grav site, locks you down, and you go boom.
Scenario three: You say eff it, hop in a warship and decide to go commit cannibalism by eating your own kind (I enjoy killing my own kind now and then.) Nobody is out mining because it is certain death to anyone with half a brain cell (that probably matches the idiot that thought grav sites as insta warps was a good idea).
Reality, I can't mine. I can't kill miners, W T F???????
Give WH's instant local intel, just like null. Or roll this back and say "my bad, we dumb" |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
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Posted - 2013.07.17 01:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ronce wrote: Give WH's instant local intel, just like null.
I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space.
(If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.)
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Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
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Posted - 2013.07.17 01:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tisisan wrote:Ronce wrote: Give WH's instant local intel, just like null.
I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space. (If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.) Stupidy? Nope. sorry try again.
Lazy? I'm doing 3 jobs while mining. Mining, Watching for new spans, and spamming d-scan.
Desire for effort free isk? No, I work for my isk just like everyone else. I've put in my time in null, pirated in low, carebear'd in high.
If the risk is the same, why should there be any difference. Why is it wonderful? Effort free kills cause they can't see you?
In null: I jump into a system and see miners on scan, I warp to belts.
In wh's: I see miners on scan, I warp to belts.
Only difference? No intel channels, and no local flash.
Why bother with the difference if there is barely any distinction?
Troll on brother ! I'm right there with ya! |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
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Posted - 2013.07.17 01:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ronce wrote:Tisisan wrote:Ronce wrote: Give WH's instant local intel, just like null.
I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space. (If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.) Stupidy? Nope. sorry try again. Lazy? I'm doing 3 jobs while mining. Mining, Watching for new spans, and spamming d-scan. Desire for effort free isk? No, I work for my isk just like everyone else. I've put in my time in null, pirated in low, carebear'd in high. If the risk is the same, why should there be any difference. Why is it wonderful? Effort free kills cause they can't see you? In null: I jump into a system and see miners on scan, I warp to belts. In wh's: I see miners on scan, I warp to belts. Only difference? No intel channels, and no local flash. Why bother with the difference if there is barely any distinction?
You clearly implied that is you are mining with open holes. That is stupid. No other way around it.
You want wormhole ore without wormhole risk and wormhole effort. That is lazy.
The lack of local IS the difference. (See point above regarding "stupid.")
Go back to high sec. |
vizax vonkoffer
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
0
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Posted - 2013.07.17 01:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tisisan wrote: I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space.
(If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.)
I agree with Ronce, same corp or not. If the WH is open, fine I understand the risk involved, but I completely agree with the fact that having free-grab warps to the grav site is complete crap. *Everything else* in the WH requires effort to find, why make this different.
HS/LS/NS belts have warp locations, why? Because its *known space*. In the unknown space of the unknown wormhole with unknown sites, why in the world would you grant a known site?! |
Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ya know what I find amusing?
You've assumed I've been mining, and that I'm complaining about no free isk.
I have not mined since the patch. I have not lost any ships personally to the patch changes. I'm livid because a newbie (rare, few and far between) lost my mining ship due to the patch changes. The ship isn't a big deal, I make enough to replace that no problem.
The problem is the injustice of a system that from a miners perspective is a direct assault on their ability to generate isk. If you look at the changes to mechanics, you should note from a non-biased perspective that wh mining has NEVER been safe. I lose barges quite often even while mashing d-scan for probes.
It just got a heap ton easier for any idiot with a blaster to take advantage of learning individuals, by making it lamentably easiy for a moron to get kills with less than manageable notification. (aka, probes/local spike) Yes, in a wh it's probes only.
What I am getting at, is that null mining is now easier than wh mining. |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
vizax vonkoffer wrote: I agree with Ronce, same corp or not.
Ronce:
Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2012/10/15 13:37 Elite-Force2010/09/05 06:562011/10/20 13:07 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/27 02:42 SolidLine Industry2006/08/21 06:172007/04/01 01:17
vizax vonkoffer:
Kleinrock Heavy Industries2013/01/16 17:48 Elite-Force2010/05/28 02:002012/02/18 08:30 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/24 17:25 SolidLine Industry2006/08/13 14:172007/04/01 01:17
Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that.
Go back to high sec.
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vizax vonkoffer
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
0
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tisisan wrote:vizax vonkoffer wrote: I agree with Ronce, same corp or not.
Ronce: Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2012/10/15 13:37 Elite-Force2010/09/05 06:562011/10/20 13:07 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/27 02:42 SolidLine Industry2006/08/21 06:172007/04/01 01:17 vizax vonkoffer: Kleinrock Heavy Industries2013/01/16 17:48 Elite-Force2010/05/28 02:002012/02/18 08:30 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/24 17:25 SolidLine Industry2006/08/13 14:172007/04/01 01:17 Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that. Go back to high sec.
Imagine that, friends who like to play together. its amazing!
Stop being a jerk about someone's legitimate opinion, just because you don't like it.
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Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tisisan wrote:vizax vonkoffer wrote: I agree with Ronce, same corp or not.
Ronce: Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2012/10/15 13:37 Elite-Force2010/09/05 06:562011/10/20 13:07 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/27 02:42 SolidLine Industry2006/08/21 06:172007/04/01 01:17 vizax vonkoffer: Kleinrock Heavy Industries2013/01/16 17:48 Elite-Force2010/05/28 02:002012/02/18 08:30 Dark Ashes2007/04/01 01:182008/03/24 17:25 SolidLine Industry2006/08/13 14:172007/04/01 01:17 Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that. Go back to high sec.
are your alts separate people too? *glazed over look* Go back to wow!
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vizax vonkoffer
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
0
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tisisan wrote:
Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that.
Go back to high sec.
Tisisan
CURRENT CORPORATION Hard Knocks Inc. [HRDKX] from 2011.10.24 23:32 to this day PREVIOUS CORPORATION(S) ... Federal Navy Academy [FNA] from 2007.05.26 16:27 to 2007.05.27 06:31.
Hey, look, I was in Federal Navy Academy [FNA] too. Are you my lost alt? |
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Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
vizax vonkoffer wrote: Stop being a jerk about someone's legitimate opinion, just because you don't like it.
I am stating my opinions. Wait, what's that? Only you can do that?
Go back to high sec. |
Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
OK, in an effort to turn this away from just a flaming ball of troll spit...
Look. I'm venturing a point that what happened to miners in wh's...
is equally repulsive as local channel being populated automatically in wh's...
WITH THE DIFFERENCE
that miners really did take one up the ass.
I would be right there with you complaining about local in a wh being like null, if it happened.
However, the point remains, that it DID happen to miners in wh's, with just a different channel of the mechanics.
You respond with "go back to HS" and I say "why bother, ccp is turning wh's into highsec, lowsec, nullsec anyways"
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Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ronce wrote:
You respond with "go back to HS" and I say "why bother, ccp is turning wh's into highsec, lowsec, nullsec anyways"
I'm now going to refer to wh's as "Omni-sec" |
vizax vonkoffer
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
0
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ronce wrote: I'm now going to refer to wh's as "Omni-sec"
WH = OS
OS... hmmm, maybe the problem is that this "OS" is turning out kinda like Windows Vista. Nice try, but didn't think it through all the way? |
Craggus
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
105
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Can we just change grav sites to only be able to be scanned down by mining ships? Also, when you start pve stuff, can the wh connections automatically close? While we are at it, can d-scan spam itself and if anything new pops up, your ship auto-warps?
I'm just kidding. I like the tears too much. |
Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wait, tears? Where?
I'm bitching, not crying. Crying implies loss. Bitching = pissed at the shift in mechanics |
T0SHI KONI
Day Trippers Anonymous
0
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
The real question should be why would you mine in WH in the first place when it is one on the least lucrative parts of the hole. I live in a C1 and make more shooting red crosses and mining gas than punching ark. |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ronce wrote:OK, in an effort to turn this away from just a flaming ball of troll spit...
Look. I'm venturing a point that what happened to miners in wh's...
is equally repulsive as local channel being populated automatically in wh's...
WITH THE DIFFERENCE
that miners really did take one up the ass.
I would be right there with you complaining about local in a wh being like null, if it happened.
However, the point remains, that it DID happen to miners in wh's, with just a different channel of the mechanics.
You respond with "go back to HS" and I say "why bother, ccp is turning wh's into highsec, lowsec, nullsec anyways"
Ok. Can anyone else make out what he's saying here? He agrees with me. But he's making a point. Miners got ******. He would agree with me if wormholes turned into null. But it already happened.
Wut? I'm lost.
Look. Miners got a disadvantage from the last patch, people don't have to scan down sites any more. Yup. They also got an advantage. New sigs pop up automatically. You're solution to all of this is to give wormholes instant local. So it's like null sec. But you don't want it to be...
God, I'm lost again.
But you don't mine and don't lose ships mining, but you always dscan/check for sigs.. wut? Lost again...
I have a headache.
I am going to find alcohol.
You and your 'friend' who also really likes typing random phrases and words in all caps and using "..." should just, you guessed it, go back to high sec.
I hear they have local there. |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
128
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
T0SHI KONI wrote:The real question should be why would you mine in WH in the first place when it is one on the least lucrative parts of the hole. I live in a C1 and make more shooting red crosses and mining gas than punching ark.
Damn, I had meant to add that to my list of stupid I put in the earlier post, but it got lost in the crowd :(
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Ronce
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
2
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
alright.
For clarification: I said I wasn't mining since the patch.
I said I'd ***** with you if wh's got local population instantly.
The point I was trying to make was this:
If you are going to screw over one aspect of the game, punish everyone equally.
New sigs popping up instantly is ok, but I've never seen one pop instantly.
I've got scotch! We can troll at each other over a drink.
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Craggus
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
105
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Posted - 2013.07.17 02:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
No local chat! It makes hard knocks spam that much better. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
162
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Posted - 2013.07.17 03:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
There are several things you can do to make yourself safe(r) while mining in WHs.
If that newbie friend of yours who lost his ship wasn't doing any of them, it's his own fault.
Step one. Close your holes. Step two. Put a small bubble at the ore site warpin, with enough decloak cans to ensure a decloak. Step three. Mine like normal, more than 50km but less than 150 from the warpin. Keep an eye on the sig list, checking/unchecking the show anomalies box multiple times a minute (since that's the only way I've found to guarantee the sigs are refreshed).
Doing that, you are not any less safe than you were mining before the patch, if you're paying attention. If you're not perfectly paying attention, you may even be more safe, since the sig will be visible any time after being opened, whereas combat probes only would've been on dscan for ~30sec or so.
If someone is already in your hole waiting, then you'll still die...but that's no different from before, since they would've had the ore sites BMed anyway and you still would've had 0 warning.
Miner ganks happened before the change, and they will continue to happen after. People who are afk or not paying attention will get blown up. People who are paying attention will be fine. |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2155
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Posted - 2013.07.17 04:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ronce wrote: Give WH's instant local intel, just like null. BAHAHAHAHHAHAHA yeah how about no? Go mine in nullsec if you want local. You'll get better ore too.
For the record: Making mining sites into anoms was are really fkn stupid move and if I cared about mining in the slightest I'd be all over CCP for doing it. That said, no one gives a crap about mining in WHs cos there is no isk in it, even before the changes. (Yeah, I know people mine in WHs, it's cos theyre too stupid to mine in kspace.) |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
40
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Posted - 2013.07.17 04:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
HAHAHA.
NO LOCAL.
the only thing that needs to change?
Move the ore sites back to sigs. not anoms!
WH space kept their NPC's in Radar / hacking / whatever the fk they are called now. Why couldnt the ore sites (LIKE THE GAS) remain?! I just dont understand the reasoning behind moving the ore sites to anoms. |
T0SHI KONI
Day Trippers Anonymous
0
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Posted - 2013.07.17 05:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
I either read or heard on a podcast that the reason CCP gave for making Grav/Ore sites into anoms was to try and move 0.0/LS miners into belts. Why they wanted to do that or let the effect carry over to WH, your guess is as good as mine. |
Winthorp
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
161
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Posted - 2013.07.17 05:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Why did i read this thread, i am so lost now.
Go SD your hulk or something. |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
215
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Posted - 2013.07.17 05:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ronce wrote: Stupidy? Nope. sorry try again.
Lazy? I'm doing 3 jobs while mining. Mining, Watching for new spans, and spamming d-scan.
Well you obviously aren't very good at staying alive. So there may some validity there.
Lazy? You seem to only run around in bombers..... I'd call that pretty lazy. |
Vjorn Angannon
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
87
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Posted - 2013.07.17 05:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Hmmmmm
I dunno, but taking my venture into a system with a few pilots logged on, at zero in an ore site.....
.... could actually be fun |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
171
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Posted - 2013.07.17 06:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
@Chris Winter Jup this works well. Best WH to miner, is a C3 with static LS. Under the Week you dont have so much sigs to scann and if you close the WH you have realy nice mining OPS.
Next step, Rorqual bonus, and retrivers. Everyone can hauler there stuff with retrieves. If you lost a Rretriever with some T2 stuff in it, its not the world (30mil isk) With an cycle time from 104 s /1880m-¦ per stripminer You have a realy nice day.
greatings Kira Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare -
Irren ist menschlich, doch im Irrtum zu verharren ist ein Zeichen von Dummheit. |
Moo Moocow
Bite Me inc Bitten.
13
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Posted - 2013.07.17 08:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'd never want local back in w-space but I think the ability to warp straight to an ore belt and the new sigs popping up almost immediately are both bad mechanics.
No one seems particularly happy with either of them.
If people want to hunt miners, let them invest time and effort training up a decent scanner to scan them down quickly. (None of this dumbed down scanning for the masses lark...)
And if people want to mine they should be able to able to get fairly decent isk from it compared to 0.0 because I haven't shot at a mining fleet in ages..... |
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