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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Every time i use drones in level 1 - 4 mission they get attacked in 2 seconds. So for example i warp in with dominix aggro the room deploy drones. The second i deploy drones 7 npc's switch aggro to my drones and at least one drone dies.
So i am asking you CCP are drones not allowed in missions anymore ? because this is just insane how quickly npc's switch aggro and how quickly drones die.
So basically we players can't use drones at all in missions or plexes. So why are drones forbidden in missions / plexes now ?!
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
2965
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Um, you're doing it wrong?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
577
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Every time i use drones in level 1 - 4 mission they get attacked in 2 seconds. So for example i warp in with dominix aggro the room deploy drones. The second i deploy drones 7 npc's switch aggro to my drones and at least one drone dies. So i am asking you CCP are drones not allowed in missions anymore ? because this is just insane how quickly npc's switch aggro and how quickly drones die. So basically we players can't use drones at all in missions or plexes. Are they forbidden in missions / plexes now ?!
Use sentries or use light drones to assist your BS against orbitting small targets. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
And how should i do it right then ?
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: Use sentries or use light drones to assist your BS against orbitting small targets.
Sentries also get aggro in 2 seconds, so no.
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Plastic Psycho
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
121
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Every time i use drones in level 1 - 4 mission they get attacked in 2 seconds. So for example i warp in with dominix aggro the room deploy drones. The second i deploy drones 7 npc's switch aggro to my drones and at least one drone dies. So i am asking you CCP are drones not allowed in missions anymore ? because this is just insane how quickly npc's switch aggro and how quickly drones die. So basically we players can't use drones at all in missions or plexes. So why are drones forbidden in missions / plexes now ?! Congratulations - the NPC AI is smarter than you are.
Pro tip: If what you're doing isn't working, try something different. |
Private Pineapple
Tea And Sympathy Ltd. Liability Reckless Ambition
413
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Spc One wrote:And how should i do it right then ?
Get aggro first? I am the Kingpin of the Crime and Punishment forum. |
Ciyrine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
use a mjd and sentries that should fix your problem |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Private Pineapple wrote:Spc One wrote:And how should i do it right then ?
Get aggro first? I do get aggro first, i aggro whole room then deploy drones.
|
Ramael Hashur
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Spc One wrote:And how should i do it right then ?
Not afk mission anymore, essentially. In the olden days you could deploy drones after you've aggro'd the room and things would be fine, you could let the drones do your dirty work.
But now you need to actively manage aggro. Put guns on that droneboat, attempt to actively shoot your enemies and let the drones assist.
I don't like it either though, personally. Back when I tried missioning again I basically had to set up a sentry domi fit with a MJD. You're pretty much forced to use sentries unless all you have left are frigates orbiting you. |
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De'Veldrin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two
1733
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Private Pineapple wrote:Spc One wrote:And how should i do it right then ?
Get aggro first? I do get aggro first, i aggro whole room then deploy drones.
And then the aggro changes. Yes, that was added a while back. So now you have to actually manage your drones, not just fire and forget them. Deploy sentries. When they get aggro, call them back in, wait two seconds for the aggro to switch back to you, and then put them back to work. It's not hard to figure out, if you think about it. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15573
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Spc One wrote:So basically we players can't use drones at all in missions or plexes. So why are drones forbidden in missions / plexes now ?! Yes we can. They're not.
You just have to take care of them and do a bit of aggro management to keep them alive.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC The Last Chancers.
631
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
EWAR is useful here, too. If you use any kind of EWAR or remote rep module, you will either make it much less likely that aggro will switch from you or much more likely that it will switch back to you. Target painters are great for this, and they improve your drones' applied DPS as well. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ramael Hashur wrote:Spc One wrote:And how should i do it right then ?
Not afk mission anymore, essentially. In the olden days you could deploy drones after you've aggro'd the room and things would be fine, you could let the drones do your dirty work. But now you need to actively manage aggro. Put guns on that droneboat, attempt to actively shoot your enemies and let the drones assist. I don't like it either though, personally. Back when I tried missioning again I basically had to set up a sentry domi fit with a MJD. You're pretty much forced to use sentries unless all you have left are frigates orbiting you. I am not AFK , i am actively playing but all my drones are dying, it's not about AFK it's about not able to use drones at all. So why doesn't ccp just remove all the drones ? As i see the drones are forbidden.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15573
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Spc One wrote:it's not about AFK it's about not able to use drones at all. So why doesn't ccp just remove all the drones ? As i see the drones are forbidden. You're able to use drones. You just can't leave them without supervision and you have to take more care in ensuring that the rats find you a bigger nuisance than the drones. The reason they don't remove all the drones is because there's no reason to. They most certainly aren't forbidden.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2037
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Spc One wrote:And how should i do it right then ?
Method 1:
Lock and shoot the NPCs with your guns for a bit Deploy drones, set them to "orbit" Wait for them to catch aggro Recall them Wait for aggro to revert to you Deploy drones, have them attack If they catch aggro again, recall and re-deploy Works best with sentries and light drones. Mediums and heavies get home too slowly and will get popped before you can recall them.
I use the above with a Domi and rarely lose a drone. Usually I lose a drone because I'm watching TV rather than the mission.
Method 2: Fit several remote reppers Deploy just sentries Lock them all Rep whichever ones catch aggro
Note: Even just one RR is good to carry, to fix drones that you fail to recall fast enough.
Method 3:
Bring friends. With 3 or more ships on the field drones rarely catch aggro. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Spc One wrote:it's not about AFK it's about not able to use drones at all. So why doesn't ccp just remove all the drones ? As i see the drones are forbidden. You're able to use drones. You just can't leave them without supervision and you have to take more care in ensuring that the rats find you a bigger nuisance than the drones. The reason they don't remove all the drones is because there's no reason to. They most certainly aren't forbidden. Well i can only leave them for maybe 2 seconds max.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15573
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Well i can only leave them for maybe 2 seconds max. No. Even so, take this opportunity to learn how to deal with the new AI.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4368
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Either use Sentries outside their range, or use a bit of EW to make yourself be perceived as a bigger threat than your drones.
You now have the knowledge necessary to be successful, it's up to you to use it. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Either use Sentries outside their range, or use a bit of EW to make yourself be perceived as a bigger threat than your drones.
You now have the knowledge necessary to be successful, it's up to you to use it. I'll try golem with painter, let's see.
|
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Cat Casidy
Origin. Black Legion.
150
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Now you're just being pouty. . |
De'Veldrin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two
1733
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Tippia wrote:Spc One wrote:it's not about AFK it's about not able to use drones at all. So why doesn't ccp just remove all the drones ? As i see the drones are forbidden. You're able to use drones. You just can't leave them without supervision and you have to take more care in ensuring that the rats find you a bigger nuisance than the drones. The reason they don't remove all the drones is because there's no reason to. They most certainly aren't forbidden. Well i can only leave them for maybe 2 seconds max.
This is demonstrably false.
I routinely rat in a rattlesnake. I only have to pull my drones in between waves until I have aggro back on my ship. You're definitely doing something wrong. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. |
Ramael Hashur
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Again, it seems really unfortunate that you're pretty much forced into a sentry role. It should be an option, not mandatory. And even if it's an option, you should get more 'reward' for putting more 'risk' into not using a sentry fit, i.e. having heavies and mediums actually compete with sentries for damage. At the moment, sentries are the least risky and most powerful. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
577
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Either use Sentries outside their range, or use a bit of EW to make yourself be perceived as a bigger threat than your drones.
You now have the knowledge necessary to be successful, it's up to you to use it. I'll try golem with painter, let's see.
You don't have to change ship. The EW does not need to be bonused to get most of the aggro. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Even with golem, using painter doesn't help at all.
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Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
577
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Even with golem, using painter doesn't help at all.
What kind of drone did you use and what enemy ship were on the field when you used them? |
Tenchi Sal
Dust Bunnies 514
178
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
your pretty much forced into sentries now. combat drones are out of the question. you might as well throw out mining drones. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tenchi Sal wrote:your pretty much forced into sentries now. combat drones are out of the question. Not out of the question, but FORBIDDEN by ccp.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3108
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
I keep reading about this "problem", and I'm not having it. Only occasionally NPCs concentrate fire on one drone but there's plenty of time to recall it.
Could be be due to having Level 5 in all light drone skills and specializations?
Nah. There must be something we can just assume instead and complain to CCP about. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I keep reading about this "problem", and I'm not having it. Only occasionally NPCs concentrate fire on one drone but there's plenty of time to recall it.
Could be be due to having Level 5 in all light drone skills and specializations?
Nah. There must be something we can just assume instead and complain to CCP about. It's not a complaint, it's a question for CCP. Why are they forbidding drones in missions ? |
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Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
578
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Tenchi Sal wrote:your pretty much forced into sentries now. combat drones are out of the question. Not out of the question, but FORBIDDEN by ccp.
Clear the field a bit first then you can use light or mediums. Not sure about large as I never used them. From memory, meds can be used safely when there are only BC a BS on the field. If you have aggro firmly on your ship, light can be used with anything on the field. Just pay attention to elite frigs as they can swap target even with a painter on them. |
Din Chao
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
292
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Tenchi Sal wrote:your pretty much forced into sentries now. combat drones are out of the question. Not out of the question, but FORBIDDEN by ccp. I do not think that word means what you think it means. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2506
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I keep reading about this "problem", and I'm not having it. Only occasionally NPCs concentrate fire on one drone but there's plenty of time to recall it.
Could be be due to having Level 5 in all light drone skills and specializations?
Nah. There must be something we can just assume instead and complain to CCP about. It's not a complaint, it's a question for CCP. Why are they forbidding drones in missions ?
They aren't, stop asking this question.
Drones getting aggro is to make it more challenging to use drone boats than to use them to afk it.
Drones as very much still certainly usable as the MAIN FORM OF DPS and if you can't keep drones from dying there is either something you don't understand or are quite simply doing it wrong.
Once while flying a domi I sent my ogres after a machariel that was sitting at like 55km (I only had gardes at the time and T1 omnis). One ogre took aggro and even after flying towards and away from that machariel in a straight line and taking several heavy hits that little ****** made his slow-ass back alive.
Now tell me, how in the **** are you losing sentries when they can be pulled in instantly yet my ogre survives a 50km slowboat with near 0 transversal to a battleship? The Drake is a Lie |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
473
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Either use Sentries outside their range, or use a bit of EW to make yourself be perceived as a bigger threat than your drones.
You now have the knowledge necessary to be successful, it's up to you to use it. I'll try golem with painter, let's see.
Or just kill off the smaller ships that's eating up your dones.
Then sick 'em on the cruiser+ sized ships.
I use them to eat through BSs while I make lunch (beats wasting ISK on missiles). "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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SmokinDank
Horizon Research Group
29
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
This makes me want to dust of my Domi and actually run a mission. Sounds like they're more fun and challenging and less of a bore than they were 3-4 years ago |
Arec Bardwin
990
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Perhaps he's right.
Perhaps CCP added an exception in the drone AI just for him.
Perhaps CCP hates him SPECIFICALLY. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
2286
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
Micro Jump Drive Operation
Sentry Drone Interfacing
Dominix
3x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II's
2x Drone Link Augmentor II's
3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Tank to taste, I suggest a Reactive Armor Hardener in the mix.
Jump when you land in the mission and engage with SENTRY DRONES ONLY when you come out of the jump.
Make sure to deliberately target frigates first.
If ships start getting too close, scoop your drones and MJD in another direction, preferably keeping yourself on-grid with your mission.
This has been a public service announcement paid for by the MJD and SENTRY DRONES. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
706
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Every time i use drones in level 1 - 4 mission they get attacked in 2 seconds. So for example i warp in with dominix aggro the room deploy drones. The second i deploy drones 7 npc's switch aggro to my drones and at least one drone dies. So i am asking you CCP are drones not allowed in missions anymore ? because this is just insane how quickly npc's switch aggro and how quickly drones die. So basically we players can't use drones at all in missions or plexes. So why are drones forbidden in missions / plexes now ?!
CCP hates Gallente.....They are French after all.
I too am excited about trading playability for more lag and shiny pictures.....:( Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: Method 2: Fit several remote reppers Deploy just sentries Lock them all Rep whichever ones catch aggro
Note: Even just one RR is good to carry, to fix drones that you fail to recall fast enough.
Method 3:
Bring friends. With 3 or more ships on the field drones rarely catch aggro.
This RR is banable by ccp. You will get banned if you RR your drones:
read here: http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/regarding-afk-complex-farming-1 http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=84360 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15573
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Spc One wrote:It's not a complaint, it's a question for CCP. Incorrect, becauseGǪ Why are they forbidding drones in missions ?[/quote]GǪthat's just nonsense. They're not, and your personal failure at using drones does not represent any kind of policy or design flaw on CCP's part.
So no, you're not asking a question (because the supposed GÇ£questionGÇ¥ is unbelievably idiotic and completely disconnected from realitty) GÇö you are simply whinging over your own inattentiveness and inability to play the game.
Quote:This RR is banable by ccp. No. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
It's the fact that you can't use drones in missions anymore. Try dominix with 5 ogre's.
It's not whining it's a FACT.
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Sarmatiko
1323
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Micro Jump Drive Operation + Sentry Drone Interfacing + Dominix ^this Currently Sentry Dominix is even better than Kronos in PVE (in terms of effectiveness and cost). But of course OP can keep crying about evil CCP and "DRONES FORBIDDEN IN MISSIONS"
Spc One wrote:Try dominix with 5 ogre's. Heavy drone effectiveness in PVE was questionable and low even before AI changes happened. Use sentries and don't go afk and you will never lose any drone on mission. -¥ |
Erik Dalvon
Dalvon's Drones
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
Other hints
- Don't have drones behavior set to aggressive - set to passive so they only attack when you have aggro and tell them to attack
- Be very aware of elite frigates, they seem particularly prone to attacking drones - kill them first
- (Something I only found out last night) don't get your main craft out of range of the enemy while leaving the drones in range - if they can't shoot at you, they'll shoot at what they can
This, admittedly, only from Level 3 missions. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15573
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:37:00 -
[44] - Quote
Spc One wrote:It's the fact-áfiction that you can't use drones in missions anymore. Fixed.
Quote:It's not whining it's a FACT. Incorrect on both accounts.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2383
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
Spc One wrote:It's the fact that you can't use drones in missions anymore. Try dominix with 5 ogre's.
It's not whining it's a FACT.
The Farce is strong with this one.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Spc One wrote:Even with golem, using painter doesn't help at all.
What kind of drone did you use and what enemy ship were on the field when you used them? I used light drones (hobgoblins II) and all the frigates+cruisers attacked my drones, sansha NPC's.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3108
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
What I do is load up precision missiles and use a TP and take out the NPC ships in order of smallest to largest.
Therefore combined drone and precision missile DPS on the ships most threatening to drones ensures that in the majority of the time, the drones don't even get scratched.
Now, how would there be a problem otherwise?
Is somebody AFK?
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Yana Shakti
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:43:00 -
[48] - Quote
I use Navy drones instead of the civilian variants and it works fine. They have double the hitpoints so even if I screw up with the aggro management a little bit, they still usually survive.
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Toshiro Hasegawa
The Circus Corp Nulli Tertius
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
Been using drones exclusvely for PVE in null sec for ratting .. havnt lost a single sentry in 2+ months of play and have only lost 1 med drone in all that time. I do not find that they get auto target within seconds .. but they do get targeted like all other ships in the area. I watch them closly and return them to drone bay when they are being hit and spit them right back out.
I also fit a med shield repper .. but i usually only use it after the fight to heal any that are still dmged.
I dont think things are anywhere near as bad as the OP suggests .. but maybe my skills are better, or setup with the Gila + Sentries better than having dronesall over the battlefield.
I would imagine one would want to use the right drones at the right range at the right time.
Keep them close to be pulled back in when being dmged, use small quick ones to kills small quick things first and then move out to rats further out when there is less dps comming your way. Maybe pull the drones back in after a few kills to reset aggro. |
SquirlRuler Cadelanne
Guilliman Initiative Aurora Foundation
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
Damn you CCP for making OP need skills to play!! |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2020
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
I have remote shield & armor reppers on my two Rattlesnakes. Works great.
I also have energy transfer between them.
When using a Tengu or Legion for DPS, the NPC ignore all the Rattlesnake drones. When using a Raven Navy Issue, the drones may get aggro, but a few reps and all is well.
0 to 15 km: Ogre II (I even get lazy and use them on frigates, which they are very capable of quickly destroying) >15 km: Sentries |
illirdor
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
53
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fwJo3bA05Q
/Thread...
Soooo this is my sig....-á |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
550
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
Don't listen to these people, OP.
Drones are most certainly forbidden now.
In fact, you could be banned for using them to mission.
You should probably stop playing until you're ready to use a different ship. Rifterlings Corporation is now recruiting pilots for faction warfare solo & small gang frigate PvP. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
473
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
For 24hrs or some unreasonable amount. Unreasonable isn't 15 minutes.
The world of gaming would come to a screeching halt, if the players couldn't go AFK to get his pizza!
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Willmahh
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:14:00 -
[55] - Quote
Gurista extravaganza L4 with my rattlensake last night - not a single drone got agro; not a single drone died. How you ask?
step1 - get agro step 2 - launch lights to take out everything up to battleships step 3 - launch senties to pop battleships. step 4 - recall sentries if new waves spawn and restart at step 1, if not proceed to step 5 step 5 - ??? step 6 - Profit!!!
|
Doddy
Dark-Rising
854
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Drone management is not exactly hard. If your drones are dying you are either to slow, or your drones are not tough enough for the missions you are using. Are you using a drone bonused ship? Are you using t2 drones? Do you have drone durability trained to at least 4? If the answer to any of these is no you are doing it wrong.
If yes then you are just managing aggro badly. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
109
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
SmokinDank wrote:This makes me want to dust of my Domi and actually run a mission. Sounds like they're more fun and challenging and less of a bore than they were 3-4 years ago
Don't bother. Still a bore.
No idea what the OP is talking about. I take my Hurricane with its measly complement of drones on missions all the time. Usually come back with all my drones. I suck at Eve, so it can't be how great I am. I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
845
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:Perhaps he's right.
Perhaps CCP added an exception in the drone AI just for him.
Perhaps CCP hates him SPECIFICALLY.
!-- mission ai selection module /mission start /spawn npcs /initiate ai /if capsuleer = "SPC ONE" /initiate ai "dronmageddon" This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
627
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
It's called agro (agression), one should learn to master it. In some cases, you want drones to take agro away from you. |
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
450
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:08:00 -
[60] - Quote
First thing is, the new AI will switch targets when a new ship appears on grid. When you wait to have full agro and then deploy drones this kicks in, and they switch targets to your drones. Deploy lights first, as soon as you land, and target frigates, make sure focus fire is set, and that they are set to aggressive. Watch out for Elite frigates, as they will switch targets, even if you are using E-War/remote reps. Be attentive, otherwise you will lose drones, and even so you will lose a few drones regardless. Another thing: Train Drone Durability, you whiny scrub. "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
|
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Niec Mogul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:18:00 -
[61] - Quote
As a counterpoint to all the apologists in here: Sure, you can technically still use drones in missions these days. About the same way you can still go fight a war with a sword and a shield (hint: the answer is "not very effectively.").
My recommendation? Bite the bullet, take the downtime, and train into a missile boat. Problem solved. No, really, it is. All the drone downsides just evaporate. Greater range, selectable damage, benefits from EWar (target painting), all just like drones, only without the constant bullshit micromanagery that stands in for "mad leet skillz" when using drones. And as far as costs go, one lost light T2 drone (~300k) will buy enough cruise missiles to complete a ton of missions. On the rarest occasions rats will have Defender missiles, but these hardly ever do more than slow things down for a second or so, and if they jam you there's always FoF missiles. Craptastic damage, but damage nonetheless.
Drones aren't off the table but they're definitely a massive pain in the ass to use, particularly when they offer little to no advantage over a set of launchers. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
314
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:27:00 -
[62] - Quote
I've lost a few light drones since the change, but I don't think I've lost a single sentry drone. maybe try killing the cruisers first as they seem to be the most likely to shoot sentries. and/or don't aggro the whole room as there is no way for you to keep aggro on that many ships. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
756
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
obvious troll is obvious
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
715
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:32:00 -
[64] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I keep reading about this "problem", and I'm not having it. Only occasionally NPCs concentrate fire on one drone but there's plenty of time to recall it.
Could be be due to having Level 5 in all light drone skills and specializations?
Nah. There must be something we can just assume instead and complain to CCP about. It's not a complaint, it's a question for CCP. Why are they forbidding drones in missions ?
Inigo Montoya wrote:You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
You
are
doing
it
wrong.
There are mission guides and the drone mechanics are out there explained on paper.
If I were failing at missions I would google that ****. Eve is Real |
Sarmatiko
1323
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:45:00 -
[65] - Quote
Niec Mogul wrote:As a counterpoint to all the apologists in here: Sure, you can technically still use drones in missions these days. About the same way you can still go fight a war with a sword and a shield (hint: the answer is "not very effectively.").
My recommendation? Bite the bullet, take the downtime, and train into a missile boat. Problem solved. No, really, it is. All the drone downsides just evaporate. Greater range, selectable damage, benefits from EWar (target painting), all just like drones, only without the constant bullshit micromanagery that stands in for "mad leet skillz" when using drones. You clearly never tried Sentries on new Dominix, isn't it?
- Greater range? 800 dps on 99 km optimal of Garde II. More than enough for pretty everything on lvl 4.
- Selectable damage? Any set of racial sentry drones is available. And unlike smaller drones, all of them are usable.
- Benefits from EWar? Yes! But with sentries you don't need TP because there is more effective modules (omnidirectional tracking links) that dont require manual activation and 90 days of additional Electronics skills training to be effective (Long Distance Jamming, Frequency modulation, Signature Focusing).
- "Constant bullshit micromanagery". With sentries you don't need to activate multiple Target Painters to increase your dps (unlike missiles) and don't need to count shots before target dies (cruise missiles, I'm looking at you). You don't even need to buy ammo and reload. So where exactly sentry drones require more micromanagement than missiles?
-¥ |
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
99
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
Spc One wrote:It's the fact that you can't use drones in missions anymore. Try dominix with 5 ogre's.
It's not whining it's a FACT.
Hey, i fly a rattlesnake, and my main weapon is navy wardens... i have friends that use same tactic as me, but in space potatoes... what we do is, the moment you stop after launcing in, you turn ship, to get the best distance after a micro jump drive, so its a few secs turning then initiating MJD, this usually gets a few ships 80-90km and many others well futher away... now stop ship, deploy warden, i can target 126km, and my navy wardens max falloff is near that and they can operate up to 125km... i kill frigates first, then cruisers, and lastly battleships... since i sit dead still in space i can instantly pick up a sentry that is starting to get hurt, wait alittle and deploy it again, when they target anouther or me... as for me, i have 47k shields, and 75-80% omni tank, with rather high passive regen, so unless their 10+ battleships all focusing me, its not a threat really
And ewen IF, things start to look bad, the time it takes for them to cross the distance, your MJD, have recharged, so you just jump aouther 100km... As for myself, no LV4s is really a threat for me, i only have roughly 600dps, but i like my massive tank, your never safe ewen in highsec ;P, so i choose the slow safer way
hope that can help |
Tron 3K
Three Thousand Industries
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:59:00 -
[67] - Quote
Rofl.. This guy trolled you guys good.. |
De'Veldrin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two
1738
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 20:17:00 -
[68] - Quote
Dude, what the **** are you smoking? I don't want any, and you should quit too. Soon. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. |
Nambu
Two Dogs Operations
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 20:19:00 -
[69] - Quote
Spc One wrote:It's the fact that you can't use drones in missions anymore. Try dominix with 5 ogre's.
It's not whining it's a FACT.
And there his problem is exposed, Ogres are too slow to deal with frigs, especially frigs with webs. Either take out the small ships first with light drones (the bigger ships dont target light drones) and then launch your ogres or use sentries, which you can deploy/recall quickly to manage aggro. That and know your mission, if there is a webbing frig, and you are deploying non-sentries, kill it first. It will mess up your drones. Its not really that hard. I just came back to the game after a 2 year hiatus. I knew nothing about the new mission AI (or the new DDAs), took my old Dominix out right away to do some 4s. I noticed the aggro changes can deal just fine. Stop insisting that you be allowed to use whatever drones (Ogres) you want, and start using the right drones for the situation (Sentries). |
Shane Saken
Black Rise Tactical Solutions
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 20:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
Nambu wrote:Spc One wrote:It's the fact that you can't use drones in missions anymore. Try dominix with 5 ogre's.
It's not whining it's a FACT.
And there his problem is exposed, Ogres are too slow to deal with frigs, especially frigs with webs. Either take out the small ships first with light drones (the bigger ships dont target light drones) and then launch your ogres or use sentries, which you can deploy/recall quickly to manage aggro. That and know your mission, if there is a webbing frig, and you are deploying non-sentries, kill it first. It will mess up your drones. Its not really that hard. I just came back to the game after a 2 year hiatus. I knew nothing about the new mission AI (or the new DDAs), took my old Dominix out right away to do some 4s. I noticed the aggro changes can deal just fine. Stop insisting that you be allowed to use whatever drones (Ogres) you want, and start using the right drones for the situation (Sentries). DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!! Of course your drones are getting popped, your using ogres....... And everyone here is giving you valuable info and yet your still just QQ'ing some more. So sorry that CCP changed drone combat from release drones and sit there watching to you actually having to do something, heaven forbid that.
|
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10859
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 20:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Every time i use drones in level 1 - 4 mission they get attacked in 2 seconds. So for example i warp in with dominix aggro the room deploy drones. The second i deploy drones 7 npc's switch aggro to my drones and at least one drone dies. So i am asking you CCP are drones not allowed in missions anymore ? because this is just insane how quickly npc's switch aggro and how quickly drones die. So basically we players can't use drones at all in missions or plexes. So why are drones forbidden in missions / plexes now ?!
I routinely use the drones on my CNR. I don't undestand what people are doing... they get shot at sometimes, but if I get aggro and have killed a few ships, the drones are largely ignored.
1 Kings 12:11
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Etteluor
Debitum Naturae WHY so Seri0Us
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 01:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Ramael Hashur wrote:Spc One wrote:And how should i do it right then ?
Not afk mission anymore, essentially. In the olden days you could deploy drones after you've aggro'd the room and things would be fine, you could let the drones do your dirty work. But now you need to actively manage aggro. Put guns on that droneboat, attempt to actively shoot your enemies and let the drones assist. I don't like it either though, personally. Back when I tried missioning again I basically had to set up a sentry domi fit with a MJD. You're pretty much forced to use sentries unless all you have left are frigates orbiting you. I am not AFK , i am actively playing but all my drones are dying, it's not about AFK it's about not able to use drones at all. So why doesn't ccp just remove all the drones ? As i see the drones are forbidden.
I have a hard time believing you're actually this horrible at the game. |
Elliavir
Kid's Logistics Inc
42
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 04:48:00 -
[73] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Every time i use drones in level 1 - 4 mission they get attacked in 2 seconds. So for example i warp in with dominix aggro the room deploy drones. The second i deploy drones 7 npc's switch aggro to my drones and at least one drone dies. So i am asking you CCP are drones not allowed in missions anymore ? because this is just insane how quickly npc's switch aggro and how quickly drones die. So basically we players can't use drones at all in missions or plexes. So why are drones forbidden in missions / plexes now ?!
I just finished running half a dozen missions in my Ishkur... which is all about the drones. I can solo level 1-3 with the Ishkur, and can comfortably duo level 4s.
As others have noted - you will need to manage aggro. That means you will need to call back drones that are taking damage and replace them for a while with spares (you do carry spares, right?). If you are dealing with multiple groups of enemies, you probably need to recall all your drones between each pull, especially if they are a ways out from you.
Drone skills matter. I don't know what your skills look like - but having extra HP, damage, speed, range, etc. matters. It makes them harder to target in the first place, as well as harder to kill.
Unless you are just facerolling through some low-level missions for faction rep or something, don't let your drones auto-aggro. Manually select targets for them.
Know which drones are right for the job - both in terms of damage type and size. Don't deploy larger drones if there are still small targets on the field, or your drones will wind up covered in frigates.
Edit - if you are flying a drone boat, and relying on drones for your dps, take a good look at drone modules and rigs. They make a noticeable difference in drone survivability and damage output. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15582
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 04:59:00 -
[74] - Quote
Elliavir wrote:Know which drones are right for the job - both in terms of damage type and size. Don't deploy larger drones if there are still small targets on the field, or your drones will wind up covered in frigates. Incidentally, this means that heavy drones are almost always the wrong answer. You might need the odd Berserker or Ogre against very-close-orbiting Angel or Merc ships, but that's about it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Drunken Bum
398
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 05:28:00 -
[75] - Quote
4 pages of replies to this. Nicely done OP. After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary. -á-Fozzie |
Kestrix
Industrial Renaissance MinTek Conglomerate
104
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 05:49:00 -
[76] - Quote
Use sentry drones and as your using a Domi you should have a few high slots free, Put in two remote shield reppers and rep the sentry drone that gets the aggro. If it looks like the drone is going to lose it's shield scoop it up and deploy another drone and repeat until the damage drops |
dal Rayl
Nightwing Trade Administration Obsidian Triangle Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 05:56:00 -
[77] - Quote
Use the guns on the domi to take out the frigates/destroyers, then deploy the sentries or heavies, problem fixed |
Jonny Monroe
Unlicensed Medical Professionals
19
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 07:05:00 -
[78] - Quote
This one time, I deployed all my drones and they just instantly exploded and all the serpentis jocks laughed at me and gave me a wedgie and stole my lunch isk.
serious protip though: don't use drones on Recon 3/3. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15584
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 07:10:00 -
[79] - Quote
Jonny Monroe wrote:serious protip though: don't use drones on Recon 3/3. Some day, someone will figure out a way to kill that damned cloud!
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Nuglord
Heretic Army Heretic Initiative
8
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 08:17:00 -
[80] - Quote
First link - AFK plexing is bannable. Second link - CCP responded saying basically "that's not actually what happened but we can't tell you more details"
Additionally, first link was posted 6 months after second, and that was 9 months ago.
RRing is acceptable. Going AFK and RRing, not acceptable.
Since you're talking about missions, the time factor for CCP to take notice of you just doesn't exist, unless it takes you more than a couple hours to do one mission. |
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Dorrann
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 09:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:Perhaps he's right.
Perhaps CCP added an exception in the drone AI just for him.
Perhaps CCP hates him SPECIFICALLY.
I know i'm starting to hate him specifically.
NPC versus Drone agro rules have been clearly understood by almost everyone for quite a while now.
Elite Frigates and Cruisers WILL prioritise ANY size of drone on grid Standard Frigates MAY switch to Light drones but will ignore anything larger Cruisers MAY switch to Medium drones or larger BCs and BSs MAY switch to Heavy drones or larger
If elite frigs of cruisers are on the field, you need to be focusing ship based agro on them and Prioritising them with LIGHT drones Once these are cleared, focus on Standard frigates then cruisers on upwards till clear.
Leaving Elites on the field while trying to blap anything else with any drone will result in losing drones.
Stop raging, start thinking. |
Fenix Caderu
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 09:58:00 -
[82] - Quote
5 pages...nice troll...
Solution? Train up drone skills...problem solved. Unless you really expect no aggro on drones, so basically you want invincible drones...?
Again, nice troll. :) |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
164
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 11:06:00 -
[83] - Quote
Sorry if this has been mentioned already - haven't had time to read every post.
So, as far as I know the AI now tries to pick a target closest to it's own size. So when you arrive in a dominix, and take all aggro, then you pop out some tiny drones, frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers will prefer them as a target over you. This is much like PvP warfare, smaller ships hit smaller ships better that bigger ships do so you combat frigs with frigs, etc.
I think this was done to stop what used to happen, which is some super tanked battleship would come in, get all aggro, then the drones were free to fight everything completely safe from aggro. This is a good thing.
So conclusion is, that all the time you are in a dominix, you will have the smaller ships shooting your drones, so like the other have said, use sentries, prioritise smaller high dps targets and you'll have no issues. Alternatively if you use a battlecruiser, when you launch drones only frigates and cruisers tend to attack them.
But like everyone else has said, its not broken, its not disallowed, you just don't understand the mechanics and so are doing it wrong. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
327
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 11:43:00 -
[84] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Either use Sentries outside their range You do realize the NPC essentially have no 'range'. The frigs target (and jam/e-war) farther than 250k. The BS's can even shoot torps over 100k. Please tell us what their ranges are, so that we may stay 'outside their range'.
Also, i'm enjoying seeing all these replies saying "well just use sentries or lights for orbiting frigs." Yeah, because not being able to use any other drones means nothing is broken.
I'm pretty sure they NPC's do not aggro based on who's more of a 'nuisance', but based on some equation that takes sig radius and a few other variables to determine who gets the full aggro. In every mission i remember running since this change, it switched the full room (or whatever was aggro'd) to the new target. With two players they will typically hold aggro for a minute or so, then switch.
Though there is the fact that they supposedly changed the amount of drone hate to where only certain classes would target certain drones. Which still doesn't help kill the 8 dramiels orbiting/scraming you with your petty 5 light drones, because by the time you drones get one shot you've almost lost another drone. http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
391
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 11:55:00 -
[85] - Quote
Aaaaah, I love the smell of fanboy defense in the morning!
Matter of a fact is, drones are like turrets which can be destroyed. That means they are more expensive to field than just using a damn turret which only explodes if your ship explodes. How would you like it if your enemies shot at your ship your turrets would get destroyed? And in addition to that, drones require 2 metric tons of micro management. Oh and did I mention that drone AI is stupid as ****? And the UI is terrible?
It all comes down to: If you're Gallente, though ****, go use a Caldari/Winmatar/Amarr ship.
Sentries and lights are the only drones that work right now. Medium and heavies are useless.
Drones require far far more skill to use than any other weapon system in the game for little to no gain. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
Raw Matters
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 11:57:00 -
[86] - Quote
As someone who came back to Eve recently and therefore having a good way to compare the before and after, I would absolutely support the statement that Drones are currently very much broken.
The big question is: what did CCP want to archive with the Drone change anyways? It can't seriously be the afk-missioners, as those were perfectly balanced before the change. Doing a Worlds Collide with my Maelstrom takes about 30 minutes, doing the same with my AFK-Gila takes about 2 hours as drones are stupid, slow and do significantly less damage. The income on a WC is ~50 mil/h in the Maelstrom and ~12,5 mil/h in my Gila, where the later is only slightly higher than afk-mining in high-sec. So if anyone tells me that afk-missioning was an issue, we seriously need to do something about miners as well.
Then this change doesn't add any value to the game, as there is no challenge in watching your drones and recall them. For once it is mindless staring and pressing a button and for second with the current drone system you only notice that your drones have aggro when they are already being shot, and till they react the NPCs usually fire a few more shots. Effectively if you attack the wrong enemies with Drones, they report aggro by exploding.
Using Drones is absolutely required in some missions, where elite frigates scramble you. No existing large turret can even remotely hit elite frigates close by, so Drones are your only option here. But now those drones usually get fragged much faster than they kill, so usually you have to either abort/ignore certain missions just because there is no way possible for a gunboat to do them, or you need to either train up an entirely different skill tree for that one mission or exploit by using EWar. Exploit because it does nothing in the fight except for keeping the aggro. And take in account as well that equipping EWar modules does hurt your tank if you fly a shield-tanker.
Effectively this change renders some ships completely pointless and makes others the main choice for mission-runners. If you are in a Dominix with maxed sentry skills you are fine, a Raven with missile skills is even better, but everything else has become sub-par because of this one single change to Drones.
Now please explain to me why it is not broken that all my points in Minmatar gunboats and Drone skills have been completely wasted with a single change to the game. |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
391
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 12:01:00 -
[87] - Quote
Niec Mogul wrote:As a counterpoint to all the apologists in here: Sure, you can technically still use drones in missions these days. About the same way you can still go fight a war with a sword and a shield (hint: the answer is "not very effectively.").
My recommendation? Bite the bullet, take the downtime, and train into a missile boat. Problem solved. No, really, it is. All the drone downsides just evaporate. Greater range, selectable damage, benefits from EWar (target painting), all just like drones, only without the constant bullshit micromanagery that stands in for "mad leet skillz" when using drones. And as far as costs go, one lost light T2 drone (~300k) will buy enough cruise missiles to complete a ton of missions. On the rarest occasions rats will have Defender missiles, but these hardly ever do more than slow things down for a second or so, and if they jam you there's always FoF missiles. Craptastic damage, but damage nonetheless.
Drones aren't off the table but they're definitely a massive pain in the ass to use, particularly when they offer little to no advantage over a set of launchers. Excatly Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
476
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 12:06:00 -
[88] - Quote
The thing was CCP was nerfing drones being used in plexes (FW comes to mind here with multiboxers).
But it's a one-size fits all "solution". There's a good reason for it, and frankly don't mind it because in WoW a player that goes AFK for even 5 minutes can be dead by a wondering NPC (respawns are crazy now, and they h-u-r-t).
When missioning in EvE is easier than questing in WoW, there's a problem. EvE sets missioning up as an ISK faucet (but at a lower ISK/hr in high-sec than low and null), but doesn't want players to get too comfortable doing it as such (which is ironic as it's setup for exactly that). WoW it's turning in the quest that actually pays, there's little incentive to hang around to just farm. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10862
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 12:12:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:The thing was CCP was nerfing drones being used in plexes (FW comes to mind here with multiboxers).
But it's a one-size fits all "solution". There's a good reason for it, and frankly don't mind it because in WoW a player that goes AFK for even 5 minutes can be dead by a wondering NPC (respawns are crazy now, and they h-u-r-t).
When missioning in EvE is easier than questing in WoW, there's a problem. EvE sets missioning up as an ISK faucet (but at a lower ISK/hr in high-sec than low and null), but doesn't want players to get too comfortable doing it as such (which is ironic as it's setup for exactly that). WoW it's turning in the quest that actually pays, there's little incentive to hang around to just farm.
Uh, maybe you haven't noticed by a significant portion of mission rewards comes from turning them in.
1 Kings 12:11
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15597
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 12:18:00 -
[90] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote:You do realize the NPC essentially have no 'range'. Sure they do. They're just not the same ranges our weapons have. Many of the longer-ranged missions (or the missions against close-orbiting enemies) will amply demonstrate that the NPCs will miss at long ranges the same you do. They're just not clever enough not to shoot, so they start firing away as soon as possible.
If you want a lore explanation, just think of it as them using different ammo than you do, which explains why they do such appalling damage (all in line with how damage scales between short- and long-range ammo). It doesn't entirely explain why they don't switch to something more damaging as they come close, but hey, they have to leave something behind as loot, after allGǪ
Quote:Also, i'm enjoying seeing all these replies saying "well just use sentries or lights for orbiting frigs." Yeah, because not being able to use any other drones means nothing is broken. You can use other drones just fine. It's just not a good idea, since all you're doing is giving up damage application. This was just as true before, so that part has nothing to do with the improved AI.
Raw Matters wrote:As someone who came back to Eve recently and therefore having a good way to compare the before and after, I would absolutely support the statement that Drones are currently very much broken. Not really, no. It's just a matter of adjusting how you use them. They did it to improve the thread rats are able to project and to only have one set of AI code to maintain. The benefit of all this is that it means you get to learn things like proper drone usage even if you just shoot at red crosses, and that you have to pay more attention and prioritise your targets rather than just release and randomly press F1 as you read the newspaper.
The big question is: what did CCP want to archive with the Drone change anyways? It can't seriously be the afk-missioners, as those were perfectly balanced before the change. Doing a Worlds Collide with my Maelstrom takes about 30 minutes, doing the same with my AFK-Gila takes about 2 hours as drones are stupid, slow and do significantly less damage. The income on a WC is ~50 mil/h in the Maelstrom and ~12,5 mil/h in my Gila, where the later is only slightly higher than afk-mining in high-sec. So if anyone tells me that afk-missioning was an issue, we seriously need to do something about miners as well.
It hasn't particularly affected which ships can or can't kill rats, since it's still trivially easy to keep the drones alive.
Cat Troll wrote:It all comes down to: If you're Gallente, though ****, go use a Caldari/Winmatar/Amarr ship. How so? Gallente ships murder rats as fine as ever. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15597
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 12:22:00 -
[91] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:The thing was CCP was nerfing drones being used in plexes (FW comes to mind here with multiboxers). They weren't nerfing drone use at all. It was just a side-effect of the (much needed) move to level-1 AI.
Quote:When missioning in EvE is easier than questing in WoW, there's a problem. How so?
Quote:EvE sets missioning up as an ISK faucet (but at a lower ISK/hr in high-sec than low and null), but doesn't want players to get too comfortable doing it as such (which is ironic as it's setup for exactly that). WoW it's turning in the quest that actually pays, there's little incentive to hang around to just farm. Eh, what? Of course the game wants players to get comfortable fauceting ISK through missions. That's why they're there. And there is absolutely no point in hanging around in missions to farm them since that just lowers your incomeGǪ and GǣfarmingGǥ them is the wrong term anyway since they only respawn once a day.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
391
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 12:25:00 -
[92] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Panhead4411 wrote:You do realize the NPC essentially have no 'range'. Sure they do. They're just not the same ranges our weapons have. Many of the longer-ranged missions (or the missions against close-orbiting enemies) will amply demonstrate that the NPCs will miss at long ranges the same you do. They're just not clever enough not to shoot, so they start firing away as soon as possible. If you want a lore explanation, just think of it as them using different ammo than you do, which explains why they do such appalling damage (all in line with how damage scales between short- and long-range ammo). It doesn't entirely explain why they don't switch to something more damaging as they come close, but hey, they have to leave something behind as loot, after allGǪ Quote:Also, i'm enjoying seeing all these replies saying "well just use sentries or lights for orbiting frigs." Yeah, because not being able to use any other drones means nothing is broken. You can use other drones just fine. It's just not a good idea, since all you're doing is giving up damage application. This was just as true before, so that part has nothing to do with the improved AI. Raw Matters wrote:As someone who came back to Eve recently and therefore having a good way to compare the before and after, I would absolutely support the statement that Drones are currently very much broken. Not really, no. It's just a matter of adjusting how you use them. They did it to improve the thread rats are able to project and to only have one set of AI code to maintain. The benefit of all this is that it means you get to learn things like proper drone usage even if you just shoot at red crosses, and that you have to pay more attention and prioritise your targets rather than just release and randomly press F1 as you read the newspaper. The big question is: what did CCP want to archive with the Drone change anyways? It can't seriously be the afk-missioners, as those were perfectly balanced before the change. Doing a Worlds Collide with my Maelstrom takes about 30 minutes, doing the same with my AFK-Gila takes about 2 hours as drones are stupid, slow and do significantly less damage. The income on a WC is ~50 mil/h in the Maelstrom and ~12,5 mil/h in my Gila, where the later is only slightly higher than afk-mining in high-sec. So if anyone tells me that afk-missioning was an issue, we seriously need to do something about miners as well. It hasn't particularly affected which ships can or can't kill rats, since it's still trivially easy to keep the drones alive. Cat Troll wrote:It all comes down to: If you're Gallente, though ****, go use a Caldari/Winmatar/Amarr ship. How so? Gallente ships murder rats as fine as ever. Meh, I was talking about the drone boats, which Gallente tend to have lots of. I don't use drone boats, but those are now only useable with sentries and light drones, anything else and you can say bye bye to your drones. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
symolan
BamBam Inc.
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 12:31:00 -
[93] - Quote
Dorrann wrote:[quote=Arec Bardwin] Elite Frigates and Cruisers WILL prioritise ANY size of drone on grid Standard Frigates MAY switch to Light drones but will ignore anything larger Cruisers MAY switch to Medium drones or larger BCs and BSs MAY switch to Heavy drones or larger
Thanks for a clear and useful answer. Was starting to wonder why I don't have the drone get killed problem. And you made it clear. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15599
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 12:45:00 -
[94] - Quote
Cat Troll wrote:Meh, I was talking about the drone boats, which Gallente tend to have lots of. I don't use drone boats, but those are now only useable with sentries and light drones, anything else and you can say bye bye to your drones. Let's seeGǪ I got my first Myrm some time around March or April 2007, and from that perspective, I must say, no, not really. You just have to know how the GÇ£newGÇ¥ AI works (in quotation because it is now more than four years old) and adjust accordingly. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
symolan
BamBam Inc.
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 12:53:00 -
[95] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote: You do realize the NPC essentially have no 'range'.
and why then don't they hit me when I'm 100km away?? (e.g. Smash the supplier, Imperial Templar Judgment does have a range of about 95 km. After that he doesn't hit me anymore.) |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
6844
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:14:00 -
[96] - Quote
I don't think anyone has come to the right conclusion yet.
AFK missioning is still 100% possible, and there is 1 or 2 modules that will keep it that way. Buuut I'm not telling you what they are as I'd rather it didn't get nerfhammered. |
Lugalbandak
Anunnaku Industrial Corp. Northern Associates.
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:23:00 -
[97] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Every time i use drones in level 1 - 4 mission they get attacked in 2 seconds. So for example i warp in with dominix aggro the room deploy drones. The second i deploy drones 7 npc's switch aggro to my drones and at least one drone dies. So i am asking you CCP are drones not allowed in missions anymore ? because this is just insane how quickly npc's switch aggro and how quickly drones die. So basically we players can't use drones at all in missions or plexes. So why are drones forbidden in missions / plexes now ?!
Wy not?? does make sence right? i often switch my agro with pvp also to drones
srry for bad english |
Raw Matters
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 15:53:00 -
[98] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Not really, no. It's just a matter of adjusting how you use them. They did it to improve the thread rats are able to project and to only have one set of AI code to maintain. The benefit of all this is that it means you get to learn things like proper drone usage even if you just shoot at red crosses, and that you have to pay more attention and prioritise your targets rather than just release and randomly press F1 as you read the newspaper. Rats do not pose any threat, no matter the change, as one is able to perfectly calculate the outcome of a fight against NPCs, can take enough time to figure out the minor details and can warp out at any time should there be any mistake to try again. All that matters is the time it takes to kill them.
Quote:It hasn't particularly affected which ships can or can't kill rats, since it's still trivially easy to keep the drones alive. Every ship can kill rats, it comes down to the question of efficiency. If I can do a mission in 30 minutes in ship one, or in 50 minutes in ship two, I take ship one. And while before every ship had its pros and cons, now half of them are pointless and the other half is superior. And the only trivial way to keep drones alive is currently to not use them at all, which cannot be the intended purpose of a 'weapon'.
I made the mistake to read your other posts as well Tippia, and found nothing but blank statements or false arguments, so you are either a troll, massively clueless or both. Whatever it is, you are trying to defend a severe issue in this game, one that still exists even if you close your eyes, you just won't see it anymore. |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
42
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 15:59:00 -
[99] - Quote
Stop bitching you're just shite. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2353
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 16:16:00 -
[100] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Tippia wrote:Not really, no. It's just a matter of adjusting how you use them. They did it to improve the thread rats are able to project and to only have one set of AI code to maintain. The benefit of all this is that it means you get to learn things like proper drone usage even if you just shoot at red crosses, and that you have to pay more attention and prioritise your targets rather than just release and randomly press F1 as you read the newspaper. Rats do not pose any threat, no matter the change, as one is able to perfectly calculate the outcome of a fight against NPCs, can take enough time to figure out the minor details and can warp out at any time should there be any mistake to try again. All that matters is the time it takes to kill them. Quote:It hasn't particularly affected which ships can or can't kill rats, since it's still trivially easy to keep the drones alive. Every ship can kill rats, it comes down to the question of efficiency. If I can do a mission in 30 minutes in ship one, or in 50 minutes in ship two, I take ship one. And while before every ship had its pros and cons, now half of them are pointless and the other half is superior. And the only trivial way to keep drones alive is currently to not use them at all, which cannot be the intended purpose of a 'weapon'. I made the mistake to read your other posts as well Tippia, and found nothing but blank statements or false arguments, so you are either a troll, massively clueless or both. Whatever it is, you are trying to defend a severe issue in this game, one that still exists even if you close your eyes, you just won't see it anymore.
It's funny (in a sad kind of way) to know that 1st a person fails IN game than fails posting about it out of game too lol.
I guess when i do level 4 missions in a Dominix or a Rattlesnake and don't lose drones I'm doing something horribly wrong, because that's what I did all last night lol.
Even after all this, people are too lazy to develop an understanding to the threat generation mechanics and put a couple of simple modules on their ships, like the Target painter + remote armor reps i use on Drone boats to keep aggro off my drones, or peel aggro off if the npcs switch. And the same people are too lazy to use faction drones with higher HP the the cost of some dps to minimize drone losses.
I mean it's soo hard to replace one drone link aug or gun on a dominix (yes some of us still gun out our domis lol) for a remote reps for sentries. Or figure out how to make a perma cap MWD Drone boat that keeps a drone at range (thus allowing the domi to stay in rep range of heavy drones) etc.
A lot of mission runners problem comes from CCP allowing YEARS of crappy stale unchanging PVE. The old missions were the same experience over and over and over again and they attracted people who REALLY don't like to adapt to new things, with the result being a huge chunk of the mission running community being unable and unsuited to thinking about new ways to mission.
That's why so many think drone ships are "useless" when the fact is that with a little bit of creativity, drone boating is BETTER now than it used to be. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15616
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 17:20:00 -
[101] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Rats do not pose any threat, no matter the change, as one is able to perfectly calculate the outcome of a fight against NPCs, can take enough time to figure out the minor details and can warp out at any time should there be any mistake to try again. GǪwhich explains why so many people died when these changes came out and they couldn't warp out since they had run out of drones by mismanaging them. Wait what? But sure, you're right. Once you stop whinging and learn how the AI works, the rats pose no threats to you or your drones. That's why the OP's claim is ridiculous and why there is no real issue here. The real problem is, of course, that people seem to not want to get past that Gǣstop whingingGǥ part.
Quote:Every ship can kill rats, it comes down to the question of efficiency. GǪand drone ships can do it with frightening efficiency, same as always.
Quote:I made the mistake to read your other posts as well Tippia, and found nothing but blank statements or false arguments Such as?
Quote:Whatever it is, you are trying to defend a severe issue in this game, one that still exists even if you close your eyes, you just won't see it anymore. People not being able to keep their drones alive (a trivial task) is not a sever issue in the game. At most, it's a severe issue in their attention to the game, but that's not something the game can (or should) fix. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Elliavir
Kid's Logistics Inc
42
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 17:42:00 -
[102] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:,,. And the only trivial way to keep drones alive is currently to not use them at all, which cannot be the intended purpose of a 'weapon'.
I fly done boats. Not ships that happen to have a bonus drone bay, but are mostly designated for some other type of weapon... drone boats.
I mission in drone boats. I rat and salvage in drone boats. Drones are a key part of my logi and mining. I flew them before they made all the ship rebalances and AI updates. And I'm still contentedly flying with drones as my primary focus.
Drones are FINE. They are not broken. They may not be your playstyle. You may not have the right skills, fitting, and/or tactics. But they work just fine for me (and several other posters on this thread).
"Nuh uh" is not a valid rebuttal argument to all the people confirming that drones work for them, as intended, and well.
Edit - fixed typo. Naughty, naughty typo. |
Raw Matters
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 09:50:00 -
[103] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It's funny (in a sad kind of way) to know that 1st a person fails IN game than fails posting about it out of game too lol.
I guess when i do level 4 missions in a Dominix or a Rattlesnake and don't lose drones I'm doing something horribly wrong, because that's what I did all last night lol. If you would have actually read my post, you would have seen that I listed Dominix as one of the ships that do not have any issues. There are two reasons for it: first it has a 50% drone hp bonus and second it uses sentries. This combination is pretty save, as it works with a level of drone HP that allows to recall in time. Try flying a mission in a ship that does not have an HP bonus, use Ogres and watch them instantly explode. Then please tell me how everyone would have been perfectly able to recall those in time.
On the rest of your post: I was speaking about gun-boats which uses drones primarily to defend against elite frigates, something absolutely necessary in some missions. Before you could deploy them, have them wipe out the frigs (which wasn't easy, I'd like to mention as those pesky elite frigs have a troublesome combination of HP and repair sometimes, requiring solid drone skills to kill), now you need to recall your drones about 3 times per frig and bring some extra drones as with the reaction time of the drone interface, you tend to loose one every other mission. This is not only extremely tedious and annoying, but as well lowers your isk/h to a point where some people have already started to just skip certain (otherwise lucrative) mission, because it just isn't worth the trouble.
I have done some extensive testing one drones after the change and talking about isk/h (which is the only relevant factor for mission runners) using drones now boils down to the following: - Sentry guns are fine at range or when used in a drone-boat. Otherwise use only when only BS are left, or they tend to insta-pop. As they require you to stand still, you need an appropriate tank, which impacts your fitting choices. - Heavy drones are useless now. They cannot be recalled in time, which means they either die before they either reach any enemy or on the way back when recalled. Their damage is negligible considering the dps loss for the constant traveling back and forth to your drone bay. - Medium drones are usable only vs. enemy battleships or low orbiting cruisers, however most of the time the extra DPS isn't worth the risk loosing one (considering the dps loss from recalling them). With only BS left you better stick to salvaging drones. - Small drones are still required vs elite frigs, but they tend to die a lot thanks to the usual drone AI lag and low hp. Bring extras or skip missions with frigs spawning close to entry point. - Salvage drones are the drones of choice atm. They don't do any damage, but they are not targeted either. Effectively they speed up your (solo) missioning by salvaging usually in time when you cleared the pocket and therefore add the most to your isk/h.
I almost maxed out all my drone skills, just to learn that the best way is to not use them anymore but stick to salvage drones. I still say this is heavily broken. |
Remiel Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
1542
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 12:13:00 -
[104] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Every time i use drones in level 1 - 4 mission they get attacked in 2 seconds. So for example i warp in with dominix aggro the room deploy drones. The second i deploy drones 7 npc's switch aggro to my drones and at least one drone dies. So i am asking you CCP are drones not allowed in missions anymore ? because this is just insane how quickly npc's switch aggro and how quickly drones die. So basically we players can't use drones at all in missions or plexes. So why are drones forbidden in missions / plexes now ?!
I think you misunderstand the definition of the word "forbidden". Being incompetent with drones is not the same thing as being forbidden from using them. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2360
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 13:01:00 -
[105] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It's funny (in a sad kind of way) to know that 1st a person fails IN game than fails posting about it out of game too lol.
I guess when i do level 4 missions in a Dominix or a Rattlesnake and don't lose drones I'm doing something horribly wrong, because that's what I did all last night lol. If you would have actually read my post, you would have seen that I listed Dominix as one of the ships that do not have any issues. There are two reasons for it: first it has a 50% drone hp bonus and second it uses sentries. This combination is pretty save, as it works with a level of drone HP that allows to recall in time. Try flying a mission in a ship that does not have an HP bonus, use Ogres and watch them instantly explode. Then please tell me how everyone would have been perfectly able to recall those in time. On the rest of your post: I was speaking about gun-boats which uses drones primarily to defend against elite frigates, something absolutely necessary in some missions. Before you could deploy them, have them wipe out the frigs (which wasn't easy, I'd like to mention as those pesky elite frigs have a troublesome combination of HP and repair sometimes, requiring solid drone skills to kill), now you need to recall your drones about 3 times per frig and bring some extra drones as with the reaction time of the drone interface, you tend to loose one every other mission. This is not only extremely tedious and annoying, but as well lowers your isk/h to a point where some people have already started to just skip certain (otherwise lucrative) mission, because it just isn't worth the trouble. I have done some extensive testing one drones after the change and talking about isk/h (which is the only relevant factor for mission runners) using drones now boils down to the following: - Sentry guns are fine at range or when used in a drone-boat. Otherwise use only when only BS are left, or they tend to insta-pop. As they require you to stand still, you need an appropriate tank, which impacts your fitting choices. - Heavy drones are useless now. They cannot be recalled in time, which means they either die before they either reach any enemy or on the way back when recalled. Their damage is negligible considering the dps loss for the constant traveling back and forth to your drone bay. - Medium drones are usable only vs. enemy battleships or low orbiting cruisers, however most of the time the extra DPS isn't worth the risk loosing one (considering the dps loss from recalling them). With only BS left you better stick to salvaging drones. - Small drones are still required vs elite frigs, but they tend to die a lot thanks to the usual drone AI lag and low hp. Bring extras or skip missions with frigs spawning close to entry point. - Salvage drones are the drones of choice atm. They don't do any damage, but they are not targeted either. Effectively they speed up your (solo) missioning by salvaging usually in time when you cleared the pocket and therefore add the most to your isk/h. I almost maxed out all my drone skills, just to learn that the best way is to not use them anymore but stick to salvage drones. I still say this is heavily broken.
I guess I was also doing it wrong using a Machariel with Warrior IIs and Valks and hammerheads and Hobgoblins last night and not losing a single drone.
THREAT GENERATION. That's what you need to do, thats why my mission mach has a multispec ECM or a Dampener on it Hell, it's why i use a mach in missions with lots of frigs because 1200 dps plus that ECM keeps ALL the aggro on the mach no matter what i do.
You people keep trying to mission like it's 2011. It's 2013 and some of you still can't figure it out? Just like in every AFK cloaking thread, some of you mission runners don't want to adapt.
For example: Quote:- Heavy drones are useless now. They cannot be recalled in time, which means they either die before they either reach any enemy or on the way back when recalled. Their damage is negligible considering the dps loss for the constant traveling back and forth to your drone bay.
Which is why you don't recall them, you use a perma MWD fit (like my vargur) with a remote rep and set your ship to keep one of those heavies "at range" (1km). So then the drones are "dragging" your ship around the site and means you are always approaching a target with not only helps your tractoring stuff (you are always in range of a wreck, even with the marauder's boost to tractoring stuff can be too far away), it helps your (in my case) autocannons which are usually firing in fall-off anyway.
But hell, if you understand how and when to generate threat, you don't even have to do that.
99% of mission runners will be too dumb to figure out such a thing for themselves though. No, they are ENTITLED to send defenselss drones 50 or more km from their ship to kill stuff, and since you can't do that now, something is broken , right?
Reminds me a lot of the miners who badgered CCP into buffs rather than accept slightly less yield for considerably more tank........
|
Xia Kairui
Delete Inc. Enigma Project
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 13:19:00 -
[106] - Quote
What bothers me most is that while the NPC AI has been upgraded to better deal with drones, the UI used for drones is still the ****** right-click thingy it has been for years.
And let's not talk about things like setting your drones to "Focus Fire" and see them wander off to attack five different targets. Or that they still love to attack Kruul, so when I go to retrieve the Damsel from her workplace (you cannot tell me she's being abducted all the times) I have to spend more time manage my drones than actually shoot things.
New drone AI now! Well, ANY drone AI would be a good start. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1371
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 15:52:00 -
[107] - Quote
Protip: >1 player in a mission breaks AI drone aggro. HTFU!...for the children! |
Captin TPrice
New Eden Military Industrial Complex
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 17:18:00 -
[108] - Quote
Iam confused. my drones work all the time before i even get to doin any thing
|
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
715
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 19:30:00 -
[109] - Quote
Niec Mogul wrote:As a counterpoint to all the apologists in here: Sure, you can technically still use drones in missions these days. About the same way you can still go fight a war with a sword and a shield (hint: the answer is "not very effectively.").
My recommendation? Bite the bullet, take the downtime, and train into a missile boat. Problem solved. No, really, it is. All the drone downsides just evaporate. Greater range, selectable damage, benefits from EWar (target painting), all just like drones, only without the constant bullshit micromanagery that stands in for "mad leet skillz" when using drones. And as far as costs go, one lost light T2 drone (~300k) will buy enough cruise missiles to complete a ton of missions. On the rarest occasions rats will have Defender missiles, but these hardly ever do more than slow things down for a second or so, and if they jam you there's always FoF missiles. Craptastic damage, but damage nonetheless.
Drones aren't off the table but they're definitely a massive pain in the ass to use, particularly when they offer little to no advantage over a set of launchers.
Hi. You are wrong, point blank.
I use drones in my Machariel all day. Its still the fastest thing at killing angels.
I use drones in My TFI all day. It's still as fast at killing Serpentis, Mercs, and Mordus.
The drones add significant DPS to both ships. I have yet to replace a full flight in either since the update, or rather since I came back in May.
Like I said, if I was failing at missions with drones I would do some research. On the other hand, every fail mission runner drives up the price of my LP, salvaged minerals, and salvage. So carry on if you like.
Quote:- Heavy drones are useless now.
They were terribad before the update, so is there a point to posting this? Eve is Real |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
197
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 20:15:00 -
[110] - Quote
I had significant loses when i used drones in one particulat mission (10 from 15 lost), and that was caldari epic arc. Ordinary lvl 4 missions are something i can do with minimal loses 1 or 2 tech 1 small drones, of course if i am paying attention to them. Some missions are more "drone friendly" than others. New CQ prototype |
|
Arduemont
The Asteroid Solution Self Sabatoge
1621
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 21:02:00 -
[111] - Quote
Spc One wrote: Sentries also get aggro in 2 seconds, so no.
Then pull them in when they get agro. It's not hard. I do all my mission running in drone boats. They are unquestionably the most effective mission runners now. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Dray Cil
Dragonfire Industries Madz Republic
24
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 03:54:00 -
[112] - Quote
(cough)
Drone Durability V
(cough)
|
Shedemei Silfar
Kid's Logistics Inc
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 04:08:00 -
[113] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I keep reading about this "problem", and I'm not having it. Only occasionally NPCs concentrate fire on one drone but there's plenty of time to recall it.
Could be be due to having Level 5 in all light drone skills and specializations?
Nah. There must be something we can just assume instead and complain to CCP about. It's not a complaint, it's a question for CCP. Why are they forbidding drones in missions ?
Translation: "I don't like this, it's not easy - I've tried nothing and i'm all out of options. CCP plz make it easy for me."
I fly almost exclusively drone boats and do just fine. If you're having problems then one of the following is likely the problem:
1) your skills suck - train them up 2) you're not paying attention 3) you're not using the right drones for the job.
Many people have given you many good tips. But please feel free to fly something other than drone boats. |
Xessej
Darqsyde Exploration Limited Mass - Effect
26
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 04:10:00 -
[114] - Quote
I use lights to kill frigs and cruisers in l4's all the time. I only occasionally have elite frigs switch targets to the drones and generally I can pull them back in in time (I bought 20 of each t2 a couple of months ago and still have at least a full flight of each) and I don't fly a ship with a bonus to drone hit points.
I guess the idea that you have to watch your drones for when they start taking damage and recall that individual drone is beyond some folks. |
duglas Luven
Confederate Industry and Investments Inc. Confederacy of Stellar Empires
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 08:09:00 -
[115] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Private Pineapple wrote:Spc One wrote:And how should i do it right then ?
Get aggro first? I do get aggro first, i aggro whole room then deploy drones.
I use drones all the time and yea I get some drone aggro, but not as bad as you make it seem. You don't need to get 100% aggro in a room, stage the aggro. If something is not shooting at you don't trigger it. As for your issue, I am not sure what you are doing wrong but I can say some missions have more aggro than others. I have also noticed that drones don't shoot drones, in so far as i can recall. Any way, try killing every thing you can before you depoy drones that seems to help as well. |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
229
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 08:37:00 -
[116] - Quote
Pure Drone DPS are no longer viable for PVE, it sucks I know but know amount of bitching is going to help you here.
If you enter a Mission or Plex and your entire or the majority of your DPS is held within drones then they will be agro'd and most likely destroyed. There are several methods to elevate the problem.
A) Don't use drone boats for PVE, they are simply not an efficient option for grinding ISK. No matter how well you follow the next steps you will simply have an easier time using a missile or turret based DPS ship.
B) Fit a repping system in your highs and orbit sentry at 500m, when sentry drone takes damage rep them, you can tank entire rooms like this as the sentry drone sig tanks incoming DPS like a champ while still having a small HP which allows reps to easily pump it to full HP. (using this method I was able to solo a 7/10 in a Myrmidon. The rats will sometimes still DPS you but because they have spread DPS it makes previously hard rooms much more easy.
C) Micro jump trick. Fly into mission or plex and drop light drones, when they get agro micro jump 100km and tell your drones to orbit you. When the drones return the hapless NPC will chase them out to 100km. While this is happening abandon the drone that has agro. Drop sentry and blop hapless NPC, when micro jump is ready again repeat. This is excellent for missions or deds where the objective is a static such as Angels Red Light. As you can simply micro warp jump to objective once all the NPCs have been pulled off. On very hard rooms you can jump them out to 200km, I've never had the need to go for 300km. Once your drone gets popped the NPC slow boat back to their original spawn and in my experience sometimes never re target you.
D) Disposable Sentry Ship. Fit an active tank drone boat and fill her up with t1 sentry. burn to 100km and keep traversal up, when you lose a sentry just drop another and treat them as consumable ammo.
As said at start of post the easy way is simply to get into a missile boat, if you load a missile boat up with auto targeting missiles you can do the afk trick. Simply build a passive tank that can handle all the npc dps while doing 0m/s. Then activate launcher, count how long it takes for your launcher to empty and reload , then you need only press f1 that many times per hour with out botting, you could easily set up away to have the f1 auto managed but that's against the rules. It's the same as the old drop rattlesnake in a cosmo come back from work and make 1bn isk passive ect. As long as you set your safety to green and you can tank DPS then you are sorted, you can also orbit non destructible statics. If it's destructible some 1 will pop it and you'll die.
The auto targeting missile trick works very well with ISO boxer and multiple accounts for players who want to make ISK but not have to think or micro manage anything. Something that needs 1 button press every 5 mins max. It's not gonna be as good as being not afk while ISO boxing but it's still going to make isk. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15657
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 10:43:00 -
[117] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Pure Drone DPS are no longer viable for PVE They're as viable as they ever were. They just don't work as well if you're going AFK (this is a good thing). All you have to do is learn how the AI responds to various cues and what makes them prioritise one target over another. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
717
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 15:59:00 -
[118] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Pure Drone DPS are no longer viable for PVE, it sucks I know but know amount of bitching is going to help you here.
If you enter a Mission or Plex and your entire or the majority of your DPS is held within drones then they will be agro'd and most likely destroyed. There are several methods to elevate the problem.
A) Don't use drone boats for PVE, they are simply not an efficient option for grinding ISK. No matter how well you follow the next steps you will simply have an easier time using a missile or turret based DPS ship.
B) Fit a repping system in your highs and orbit sentry at 500m, when sentry drone takes damage rep them, you can tank entire rooms like this as the sentry drone sig tanks incoming DPS like a champ while still having a small HP which allows reps to easily pump it to full HP. (using this method I was able to solo a 7/10 in a Myrmidon. The rats will sometimes still DPS you but because they have spread DPS it makes previously hard rooms much more easy.
C) Micro jump trick. Fly into mission or plex and drop light drones, when they get agro micro jump 100km and tell your drones to orbit you. When the drones return the hapless NPC will chase them out to 100km. While this is happening abandon the drone that has agro. Drop sentry and blop hapless NPC, when micro jump is ready again repeat. This is excellent for missions or deds where the objective is a static such as Angels Red Light. As you can simply micro warp jump to objective once all the NPCs have been pulled off. On very hard rooms you can jump them out to 200km, I've never had the need to go for 300km. Once your drone gets popped the NPC slow boat back to their original spawn and in my experience sometimes never re target you.
D) Disposable Sentry Ship. Fit an active tank drone boat and fill her up with t1 sentry. burn to 100km and keep traversal up, when you lose a sentry just drop another and treat them as consumable ammo.
As said at start of post the easy way is simply to get into a missile boat, if you load a missile boat up with auto targeting missiles you can do the afk trick. Simply build a passive tank that can handle all the npc dps while doing 0m/s. Then activate launcher, count how long it takes for your launcher to empty and reload , then you need only press f1 that many times per hour with out botting, you could easily set up away to have the f1 auto managed but that's against the rules. It's the same as the old drop rattlesnake in a cosmo come back from work and make 1bn isk passive ect. As long as you set your safety to green and you can tank DPS then you are sorted, you can also orbit non destructible statics. If it's destructible some 1 will pop it and you'll die.
The auto targeting missile trick works very well with ISO boxer and multiple accounts for players who want to make ISK but not have to think or micro manage anything. Something that needs 1 button press every 5 mins max. It's not gonna be as good as being not afk while ISO boxing but it's still going to make isk.
I'll remember this hogwash when I cash out the couple hundred mil an hour I made last night running anomalies in a RS gang.
I'll remember this hogwash while I'm missioning later.
Seriously, this is begining to remind me of the AI changes in GW I, where they made the NPC's not stand in AOE. Absolutely devastating to the players with IQ<95.
Eve is Real |
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