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President Caldari
True Caldari Nation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.26 02:02:00 -
[91] - Quote
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:lol yeah, an hulkageddon was about bot control, not farming tears
Well kind of. And also just for tears.
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Elyssa MacLeod
GloboTech Industries GloboTech Trade Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.10.26 02:06:00 -
[92] - Quote
President Caldari wrote:Elyssa MacLeod wrote:lol yeah, an hulkageddon was about bot control, not farming tears Well kind of. And also just for tears.
well I mean saying mining ganking is just for killing bots is just as disingenuous **** FiS Its Called EVE |
Jenshae Chiroptera
52
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Posted - 2011.10.26 02:27:00 -
[93] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: There is officially no excuse to be ganked in highsec anymore.
Late so I am ignoring the thread.
Covert Ops tackler (~20M) + Brutix ready to warp in. CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you. |
Bomberlocks
CTRL-Q
9
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Posted - 2011.10.26 02:47:00 -
[94] - Quote
I like this thread. I find EVE humour, best humour. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
5
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:01:00 -
[95] - Quote
This from a miner friend who likes gankers (helps lower competition he says).
To mine with a near 0% chance of getting ganked (in HS, but it doesn't matter what HS), follow the steps below:
Setup 1- Scout your area. Know where the best ore is before you start. 2- Once you determine which group of rocks you want, fly within 5km of the center of them (using a non mining ship). 3- Create a warp in BM at the location and drop a can with something cheap in it to use as a reference. 4- Fly straight in any direction (ideally one that will not intersect roids either forward or backward) for at least 200km (not that hard in a cheap fast frig or a shuttle). 5- Create BM1. 6- Warp to the can (or the warp in BM). 7- Travel the opposite direction and go another 200km. 8- Create BM2.
Mining 1- Warp to your warp in BM. 2- Lock desired roid and start the miners. 3- Chose BM1 (or 2... it doesn't really matter) and select "Approach". 4- Before you get out of range of your roid, select the other BM and click approach. 5- Repeat step 4 until you have cleared all the roids you can, or until you decide to call it a day.
Gank!? 1- As soon as you see a ship on overview that is not an industrial ship (or to be safe, do it anyway), select "Warp" to whichever BM you are moving to. Unless they catch you at a really bad time (ie during turn around) you will insta-warp 200+km away from them, at which point you can safely go to a station or continue mining after warping back.
This method will stop almost every non-dedicated ganker.
The downsides come when the dedicated ones show up. Yes, they can scram you in a CovOps frig while the gank ship warps in (except that starts Concord in, and by the time the ganker gets their, the scrammer may be dead). Yes, they could observe for a while and determine you are using this method and use a cloaky to make BMs where they think yours are. However, this requires more luck/work than an X-type drop.
Yes this is work. However, if every miner did this, ganking would become very difficult (compared with what we have now)... and more fun in my opinion.
So, you miners have a choice. Work and make the gankers work, or be lazy and let lazy gankers kill you. |
Elyssa MacLeod
GloboTech Industries GloboTech Trade Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:06:00 -
[96] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:
So, you miners have a choice. Work and make the gankers work, or be lazy and let lazy gankers kill you.
Or mine missions a few months
**** FiS Its Called EVE |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
350
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:09:00 -
[97] - Quote
Mr Bill Bravor wrote:What works in lowsec is not practical in hisec. While you may be able to avoid getting ganked you wouldn't get any mining done so essentially you would be wasting your time.
If you convinced everybody to do this what would keep a single pilot from warping in to each belt every five minutes just to make them all warp out? You would have a ganker with no ganks and a bunch of miners with no ore. Sounds kind of boring.
What works in lowsec works in highsec, and works in nullsec. It's a simple principle - adjust the range of your D-scan to only be showing things in the area immediately bubbling the belt where you are working. If you go setting your D-scan to max range, you'll be flooded with useless junk. It's a precision instrument - use it precisely.
And you're right, there isn't anything stopping a hostile ship from warping in and spooking everyone and causing them to scatter.
How many times must it be said though, there are thousands of near-empty systems in the game with riches far exceeding what can be mined in a highsec belt? Why is everyone insisting on remaining in highsec? Where is the willingness to adapt to a changing situation?
Anyone on these forums can see the truth of the situation clear as glass - highsec is a crowded, hostile space, rife with people looking to harass miners. Why do you want to stay there so bad, when you can have a much more relaxing time in lowsec instead?
When I harvest/mine in lowsec, I only have to spam D-scan whenever another player enters the system. The rest of the time I can munch on snacks, watch ****, do homework, and keep an eye on things. But if someone that could kill me enters the system, I'm right there on the scanner, protecting my ship. Attentiveness is better than any tank.
This complaining is still quite unfounded - if the problem is that directional scanner brings up too much highsec clutter, or the problem is that you dont like losing a shred of isk per hour, the solution is still simple, and still the same - mine elsewhere.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
350
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:16:00 -
[98] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:This from a miner friend who likes gankers (helps lower competition he says).
To mine with a near 0% chance of getting ganked (in HS, but it doesn't matter what HS), follow the steps below:
Thanks Corina, its nice to know that there are a few people out there willing to learn how to properly fly their ships, and adapt to a hostile situation by using the tools provided to them, and to develop a system that mitigates loss.
I wish more miners had this kind of attitude. Rather than blame the world for their problems, they could simply learn to protect themselves and keep having fun despite the danger. There are many ways to set up systems like this, but the idea that you have to be parked stationary at a can is ridonkulous. That is the most simple way to mine, takes the least effort, and bears the highest risk. It is still very much possible to be moving at 75%, aligned, for some time while harvesting your material of choice, whether it be ore, ice, or gas. When set up like this, it is still a 100% insta-warp, every time.
What we've seen in this thread is a stubborn group of angry players who feel entitled to a risk-free activity that provides a guaranteed isk / hour earnings potential.
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Tahna Rouspel
BWE Special Forces
8
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Posted - 2011.10.26 03:31:00 -
[99] - Quote
I'm not a miner and I live in a wormhole, but I think that mining needs to be way more interesting to do. It was designed to be an afk activity. It barely requires more than 1 imput per 5 minutes.
I'd rather fly a covetor and risk losing it than be active while mining. Mining is lousy isk per hours anyway, so I won't be doing it anyway -_-;; |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
475
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 03:58:00 -
[100] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: There is officially no excuse to be ganked in highsec anymore.
Late so I am ignoring the thread. Covert Ops tackler (~20M) + Brutix ready to warp in. I don't think you really know how ganking in highsec works.
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HydroVolcano
Autocannons Anonymous
0
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:06:00 -
[101] - Quote
Why don't the carebears stop crying and wait for CCP to make mining more interesting, that way they're distracted when they are about to be ganked
EDIT:
BTW, isn't there a mining ship with +1 or 2 warp strength? sounds like a lowsec miner to me |
Hecatonis
Ascension Manufacturing
7
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:10:00 -
[102] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Mr Bill Bravor wrote:What works in lowsec is not practical in hisec. While you may be able to avoid getting ganked you wouldn't get any mining done so essentially you would be wasting your time.
If you convinced everybody to do this what would keep a single pilot from warping in to each belt every five minutes just to make them all warp out? You would have a ganker with no ganks and a bunch of miners with no ore. Sounds kind of boring.
What works in lowsec works in highsec, and works in nullsec. It's a simple principle - adjust the range of your D-scan to only be showing things in the area immediately bubbling the belt where you are working. If you go setting your D-scan to max range, you'll be flooded with useless junk. It's a precision instrument - use it precisely. And you're right, there isn't anything stopping a hostile ship from warping in and spooking everyone and causing them to scatter. How many times must it be said though, there are thousands of near-empty systems in the game with riches far exceeding what can be mined in a highsec belt? Why is everyone insisting on remaining in highsec? Where is the willingness to adapt to a changing situation? Anyone on these forums can see the truth of the situation clear as glass - highsec is a crowded, hostile space, rife with people looking to harass miners. Why do you want to stay there so bad, when you can have a much more relaxing time in lowsec instead? When I harvest/mine in lowsec, I only have to spam D-scan whenever another player enters the system. The rest of the time I can munch on snacks, watch ****, do homework, and keep an eye on things. But if someone that could kill me enters the system, I'm right there on the scanner, protecting my ship. Attentiveness is better than any tank. This complaining is still quite unfounded - if the problem is that directional scanner brings up too much highsec clutter, or the problem is that you dont like losing a shred of isk per hour, the solution is still simple, and still the same - mine elsewhere.
so i just did an experiment in my nice little corner of high sec average population 10
i sat at a field for 30 min set d-scan at max range and spammed it every 2 seconds. 20 ships that could be fitted with the firepower to kill hulk before concord came by. that would mean i would have to jump a hulk or smaller out of mining range every 1.5 min.
i then spend another 30 min with my d scan at half range, 14 ships flew by, that would mean i would have to jump out every 2.5 mins
then for 30 min i used my d scan at quarter range. 5 ships flew past that could kill a hulk.
if my numbers are right, at 536870911km that would give me about 2.3 sec. of warning, at best a third of a second at worse, to jump, here is hoping that i was at 75% speed, because if i wasnt i would be dead. good think i was in an abbadon.
your ideas dont work in high sec because almost every system is like this, and the one that are not like this is because there is nothing of value so why would anyone go there anyways.
nul and lowsec tricks dont work in highsec because population is too high, concord doesn't let us actively remove people out of system, and it has too much traffic passing through.
tanking your ship doesnt work because a fully tanked hulk and still be taken out by ships that would cost less.
The only thing a miner can do it swap out ships to something cheaper and smaller, and the only one who wins are the macro ratters and miners in nul sec. because it is the only place that can be policed properly and they will benefit from the high prices of minerals.
edit: typing errors |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
476
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 04:12:00 -
[103] - Quote
[quote=HydroVolcano]Why don't the carebears stop crying and wait for CCP to make mining more interesting, that way they're distracted when they are about to be ganked They don't care about making mining more interesting. They want to be able to afk mine in complete safety.
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Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:17:00 -
[104] - Quote
I would love to have mining more interesting , wouldn't everyone? Last i heard more content is good bros.
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HydroVolcano
Autocannons Anonymous
0
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:33:00 -
[105] - Quote
Hecatonis wrote: so i just did an experiment in my nice little corner of high sec average population 10
i sat at a field for 30 min set d-scan at max range and spammed it every 2 seconds. 20 ships that could be fitted with the firepower to kill hulk before concord came by. that would mean i would have to jump a hulk or smaller out of mining range every 1.5 min.
i then spend another 30 min with my d scan at half range, 14 ships flew by, that would mean i would have to jump out every 2.5 mins
then for 30 min i used my d scan at quarter range. 5 ships flew past that could kill a hulk.
if my numbers are right, at 536870911km that would give me about 2.3 sec. of warning, at best a third of a second at worse, to jump, here is hoping that i was at 75% speed, because if i wasnt i would be dead. good think i was in an abbadon.
your ideas dont work in high sec because almost every system is like this, and the one that are not like this is because there is nothing of value so why would anyone go there anyways.
nul and lowsec tricks dont work in highsec because population is too high, concord doesn't let us actively remove people out of system, and it has too much traffic passing through.
tanking your ship doesnt work because a fully tanked hulk and still be taken out by ships that would cost less.
The only thing a miner can do it swap out ships to something cheaper and smaller, and the only one who wins are the macro ratters and miners in nul sec. because it is the only place that can be policed properly and they will benefit from the high prices of minerals.
edit: typing errors
You do know, max range on dscan is 14.4AU, or 2,147,483,647km
Someone earlier also said you scan 2.1 million km, which is incorrect. I read 2.1 BILLION km.
So doing a little math, you can figure out what would be landing on you. Say you're in a belt, and the closest thing is 3AU from you - including other belts. Why wouldn't you set your dscan to be shorter than that range, that way you aren't scanning 2/3 of the system, but just what is nearby. If nothing is coming your way guess what - you won't get any hits on scan - aside from cloaked ships.
I haven't mined since my first weeks in eve, and I really don't intend on revisiting it. But for those of you who insist on mining... take a little advice from people that know how the rest of the game works. |
Donald MacRury
LankTech Universal Paranoia Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:48:00 -
[106] - Quote
Not sure how everyone else mines, but this is how i usually do it:
I mine in a back end hi sec system where I have a pos. I keep my local window seperated and streatched across the screen so i can see everyone. I don't usually bother with the active allign but I do try to keep a little distance from the roids so I don't get stuck in them.
If i see any shady characters appear in local, people marked red, or WTs while at War (usually would have a scout a jump or two away in those cases), then I would fleet warp to the POS.
In cases when I know the risk is higher, like ice mining, i'll use covetors instead of macks/hulks and fit them more for tank. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
352
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 04:52:00 -
[107] - Quote
Hecatonis wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
dont like losing a shred of isk per hour, the solution is still simple, and still the same - mine elsewhere.
The only thing a miner can do it swap out ships to something cheaper and smaller, and the only one who wins are the macro ratters and miners in nul sec. because it is the only place that can be policed properly and they will benefit from the high prices of minerals.
The only other thing a miner can do is what I already said that you ignored - mine elsewhere.
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Hecatonis
Ascension Manufacturing
8
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Posted - 2011.10.26 05:38:00 -
[108] - Quote
HydroVolcano wrote:
You do know, max range on dscan is 14.4AU, or 2,147,483,647km
Someone earlier also said you scan 2.1 million km, which is incorrect. I read 2.1 BILLION km.
So doing a little math, you can figure out what would be landing on you. Say you're in a belt, and the closest thing is 3AU from you - including other belts. Why wouldn't you set your dscan to be shorter than that range, that way you aren't scanning 2/3 of the system, but just what is nearby. If nothing is coming your way guess what - you won't get any hits on scan - the only thing you wouldn't pick up is a cloaked ship.
Set your range even shorter and you can pick up a ship thats about to land. How long does it take your spaceship to finish the last moment of warp - .5AUish - quite a while. That said, you could even be sitting still and have enough time to align and GTFO before anything locked you.
I haven't mined since my first weeks in eve, and I really don't intend on revisiting it. But for those of you who insist on mining... take a little advice from people that know how the rest of the game works.
you accelerate from 1/2 max warp to zero in the last 3 seconds if memory serves it is roughly an average speed of 1 au/sec
1/4 range on d scan is 3.5 Au that gives you about 3.5 seconds, your right i did make a mistake, that gives 3.5 to 1.5 secs to jump to warp. that includes the time you are on grid and unable to do anything
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Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
57
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Posted - 2011.10.26 05:48:00 -
[109] - Quote
Zleon Leigh wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:Stay aligned while mining?!?!?!
Have you ever even been in a belt never mind actually mined in one?????
******.....come back when you might actually know what you are talking about. erm......what exactly are you saying........?????????? He doesn't understand that OP mean static align, not active align. #1 thing I've see miners do wrong all the time - burying themselves in a rock field, leaving no clear warp out path. Sad... edit reason: fail forums....
What's static align?
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Hecatonis
Ascension Manufacturing
8
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Posted - 2011.10.26 06:08:00 -
[110] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Zleon Leigh wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:Stay aligned while mining?!?!?!
Have you ever even been in a belt never mind actually mined in one?????
******.....come back when you might actually know what you are talking about. erm......what exactly are you saying........?????????? He doesn't understand that OP mean static align, not active align. #1 thing I've see miners do wrong all the time - burying themselves in a rock field, leaving no clear warp out path. Sad... edit reason: fail forums.... What's static align?
its this strange event that assume the physics engine cares what direction you are facing when moving. he thinks engines on the back means your ship must face the direction it wants to go |
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Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
57
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Posted - 2011.10.26 06:10:00 -
[111] - Quote
Hecatonis wrote:Zagdul wrote:Zleon Leigh wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:Stay aligned while mining?!?!?!
Have you ever even been in a belt never mind actually mined in one?????
******.....come back when you might actually know what you are talking about. erm......what exactly are you saying........?????????? He doesn't understand that OP mean static align, not active align. #1 thing I've see miners do wrong all the time - burying themselves in a rock field, leaving no clear warp out path. Sad... edit reason: fail forums.... What's static align? its this strange event that assume the physics engine cares what direction you are facing when moving. he thinks engines on the back means your ship must face the direction it wants to go
oh dear.
poor ignorant soul.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Hecatonis
Ascension Manufacturing
8
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Posted - 2011.10.26 06:45:00 -
[112] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Hecatonis wrote:
its this strange event that assume the physics engine cares what direction you are facing when moving. he thinks engines on the back means your ship must face the direction it wants to go
oh dear. poor ignorant soul.
who would have thought that 1337 PvPers are taking lessons from highsec carebears.
taking one from their books
"dont suggest tactics, changes, and tips for subjects you are completely devoid of any knowledge of."
between trying to spam d scan in highsec, static alinement, put a better tank on your ships, and move somewhere else all i have to say is
1) cant scan at a range to give yourself enough warning without having to jump every 2 minutes or cluttering up the scan and missing what is important 2) that is so wrong on so many different levels 3) they can always kill your ship at less cost to them 4) if everyone moves so will the goons, do you really think they will stop ganking because they have to change regions?
i have said it before and i will say it again, all this highsec ganking is benefiting one group of people, the macro users in nul sec. no one else.
congrats goons, but i do expect it from you guys. you are at least are honest about it ruining the game for everyone else.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
359
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Posted - 2011.10.26 08:20:00 -
[113] - Quote
Hecatonis wrote:
i have said it before and i will say it again, all this highsec ganking is benefiting one group of people, the macro users in nul sec. no one else.
congrats goons, but i do expect it from you guys. you are at least are honest about it ruining the game for everyone else.
These tears.....I never thought I'd be so drawn to them......but I must admit......they are delicious.
I can see why this stuff is addictive. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
57
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Posted - 2011.10.26 08:26:00 -
[114] - Quote
Hecatonis wrote:[quote=Zagdul][quote=Hecatonis]
i have said it before and i will say it again, all this highsec ganking is benefiting one group of people, the macro users in nul sec. no one else.
congrats goons, but i do expect it from you guys. you are at least are honest about it ruining the game for everyone else.
Uh, Goons tend to have overview bugs when they find miners in their space.
True story.
E: something about mining barges having a glitch in the standings icon or something.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Naran Eto
Kut-n-Run
31
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Posted - 2011.10.26 08:26:00 -
[115] - Quote
Veronica Kerrigan wrote:Moreover, Highsec dscan is so cluttered as it is that even during wartime it isn't a good intelligence tool. For your plan to work, you have to sort through every yahoo in a combat ship worth less than 100 mil
Reduse the distance on the d-scan to around 0.5au, and keep hitting that refesh button, that's all the warning tiem you need, plenty of time to hit warp if aligned and you won't get so much clutter on the scan. |
mogwai
Gremlin Industries
4
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Posted - 2011.10.26 08:27:00 -
[116] - Quote
Andski wrote:I'd like to mention that most of the advice given in this thread (particularly by Hans and CorpAlt whatever) is actually very sound advice. If you are shocked by the concept of putting an iota of effort into protecting your assets, and instead opt to fill up the forums with rage-threads (to our delight), then you are playing the wrong game.
1. I cant believe it, but i actually agree with a Goon Well said Andski
2. There are many low sec 'dead-end' systems with belts that are 30 / 50 AU from the nearest stargate. Keep local open, check the info of everyone jumping through. Stay static aligned and be ready to initiate warp if something appears on the D Scan.
Not 'all' low sec is 100% roamed by people looking for and easy kill, sometimes its upto a couple of days before someone tries thier luck. Also, make friends and communicate with other players within the system you live.... it could be worth it for the intel at a later date. |
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.26 08:30:00 -
[117] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Warp is not instant - it takes time for you to travel. If the ganker, lets say a brutix, is out of scan range, they appear on scan the minute they enter scan range. Being in warp does not make you immune to scans.
Scanning occurs instantly and in real time - if a Brutix is more than 14 AU away from you, and a Brutix travels at 3 AU a second, you have 4.6 seconds where they are scannable before they land.
Posting in thread of miner sadness to point out that you have significantly more than 4.6 seconds. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
57
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Posted - 2011.10.26 08:31:00 -
[118] - Quote
mogwai wrote:Andski wrote:I'd like to mention that most of the advice given in this thread (particularly by Hans and CorpAlt whatever) is actually very sound advice. If you are shocked by the concept of putting an iota of effort into protecting your assets, and instead opt to fill up the forums with rage-threads (to our delight), then you are playing the wrong game. 1. I cant believe it, but i actually agree with a Goon Well said Andski 2. There are many low sec 'dead-end' systems with belts that are 30 / 50 AU from the nearest stargate. Keep local open, check the info of everyone jumping through. Stay static aligned and be ready to initiate warp if something appears on the D Scan. Not 'all' low sec is 100% roamed by people looking for and easy kill, sometimes its upto a couple of days before someone tries thier luck. Also, make friends and communicate with other players within the system you live.... it could be worth it for the intel at a later date.
pro tip: there's no such thing as static (passive) aligned. It's an old wives tale that does absolutely nothing.
test it. no lie. Your ship will take just as long to get into warp from 0 facing the opposite direction from where you're headed than if you were facing that direction.
Its why you see freighters/caps warping sideways.
It's not the direction your ship is facing that gets you to warp faster. It's how long it takes for your ship to get to 3/4 speed.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.26 08:37:00 -
[119] - Quote
Ice miners should start webbing each other, that would be hilarious. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
57
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Posted - 2011.10.26 08:39:00 -
[120] - Quote
Phill Esteen wrote:Ice miners should start webbing each other, that would be hilarious. This is actually pretty good advice.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
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