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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Hespire Malneant
EVE University Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2013.07.30 00:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Upgrade Clone button summons a dialog with the Omega grade clone at the top of the list, but probably there is not a single character in the game who needs one of those.
Instead, the player who wants to buy only the minimum clone that he needs has must scroll all the way to the bottom of the list.
Since you are removing the invalid choices from the list anyway, why not sort it in the opposite order, so that the one the user needs is always visible without scrolling? Also, this would place the appropriate choice in the position that should intuitively be the default.
Also, the current design leads inexperienced users to make costly mistakes. Suppose a new player has just subbed with a buddy invite, and the guy who sent him the invite splits the PLEX reward with him. This noob actually has enough ISK to buy an Omega clone, and might actually spend 100M ISK on it without knowing what he is doing. I personally know a case where this happened (hint: the issuer of the buddy invite was me). |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1312
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 00:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
the only imaginable counterargument would be HTFU, and even that is silly when applied to instances of bad UI such as this. here, have a thumb.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Hessian Arcturus
S.W.O.R.D. Navy
310
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 00:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
This is why you should read before you buy... Apply real world common sense to this game and bam, you don't have this problem. It's human nature to want to explore. To find your line and go beyond it. The only limit, is the one you set yourself. |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
342
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 01:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Better avoid amazon and their one click shopping I guess |
Emerita Von Nynniaw
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2013.07.30 03:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
It is a valid suggestion. As it stands, the UI is rather counter-intuitive. However, as this is EVE, people will feel the need to deride and call the idea stupid and idiotic just because. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
500
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 03:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Klymer wrote:Better avoid amazon and their one click shopping I guess
Amazon is a legit business that isn't into scamming their customers out of RL money, though. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Trudeaux Margaret
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
84
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Posted - 2013.07.30 03:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Klymer wrote:Better avoid amazon and their one click shopping I guess Amazon is a legit business that isn't into scamming their customers out of RL money, though.
And you are implying what, exactly, with this comment?
I agree that the ordering of the clone options is counterintuitive, but calling it "hateful and dangerous" is a bit over the top, and suggesting or implying that it is deliberately made so for whatever reason - I dunno. Caveat emptor, people. |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
342
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 04:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oh I forgot, shifting the blame for the consequences of ones actions from ones self to some other outside source is always the correct thing to do, silly me....
Oh and the features and Ideas forums is a bit farther down the list |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
500
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 06:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Klymer wrote:Oh I forgot, shifting the blame for the consequences of ones actions from ones self to some other outside source is always the correct thing to do, silly me....
If that's so, half of the EvE players would quit the game long ago.
See the game is to blame others for THEIR mistakes, not your own. Looks tough, but no real consequences... "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1313
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 08:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hessian Arcturus wrote:This is why you should read before you buy... Apply real world common sense to this game and bam, you don't have this problem. words cannot describe how stupid and inappropriate this attitude is when applied to a bad user interface. hey! let's randomly change the names of everything in the game every time you open a menu. after all... you should read before you buy! (yes, it's a punch line)
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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Hessian Arcturus
S.W.O.R.D. Navy
311
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Posted - 2013.07.30 09:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Hessian Arcturus wrote:This is why you should read before you buy... Apply real world common sense to this game and bam, you don't have this problem. words cannot describe how stupid and inappropriate this attitude is when applied to a bad user interface. hey! let's randomly change the names of everything in the game every time you open a menu. after all... you should read before you buy! (yes, it's a punch line)
Stupid and innapropriate huh? Well in regards to the OP's topic if you read the clone medical grade it tells you right there exactly what it does. So if you happen to be purchasing the most expensive clone because you haven't read what it does... The medical clone UI has the information needed within it. Yes, not all UI has the information needed, but you can find information on nearly everything in the game by simply reading.
If you blame the Clone Interface for purchasing the most expenive clone simply because you haven't read what it does right there in black and white, then that is your own fault, not the UI's. It's human nature to want to explore. To find your line and go beyond it. The only limit, is the one you set yourself. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1313
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 10:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hessian Arcturus wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Hessian Arcturus wrote:This is why you should read before you buy... Apply real world common sense to this game and bam, you don't have this problem. words cannot describe how stupid and inappropriate this attitude is when applied to a bad user interface. hey! let's randomly change the names of everything in the game every time you open a menu. after all... you should read before you buy! (yes, it's a punch line) Stupid and innapropriate huh? Well in regards to the OP's topic if you read the clone medical grade it tells you right there exactly what it does. So if you happen to be purchasing the most expensive clone because you haven't read what it does... The medical clone UI has the information needed within it. Yes, not all UI has the information needed, but you can find information on nearly everything in the game by simply reading. good job reiterating your point without addressing my criticism.
Quote:If you blame the Clone Interface for purchasing the most expenive clone simply because you haven't read what it does right there in black and white, then that is your own fault, not the UI's. just because the ui tells you the state of the system does not men it's a good ui. a good ui will anticipate trivial decisions and make them for you. in this case it would be pre-selecting the best clone for the player's skill points but leaving him the choice to upgrade to a more expensive one if he so wishes.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Ciaphas Cyne
HUG NATION Knight's of the Black Sun
0
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Posted - 2013.07.30 11:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
whats really funny is that the time it took the OP to write this post eclipses the amount of time hed have spent scrolling in the clone list for 10 years.
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1313
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 11:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:whats really funny is that the time it took the OP to write this post eclipses the amount of time hed have spent scrolling in the clone list for 10 years.
multiply that by the amount of users having to deal with this bullshit.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
William Walker
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
159
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Posted - 2013.07.30 11:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Stop dying. pâ+(*GîÆGêçGîÆ*)n+ë pü+(pé£GêçpÇü-¦)pü+ (GùòGÇ+GùòG£+) |
JonnyRandom
66
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Posted - 2013.07.30 13:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote: just because the ui tells you the state of the system does not mean it's a good ui. a good ui will anticipate trivial decisions and make them for you.
I don't know where you've been taught usability and UI design, but that is absolute horseshit right there. The worst thing you could possibly do is have the UI make decisions for the player. Especially in cases like this where the choice of the clone upgrade is NOT trivial at all. How exactly do you suppose the program should decide what is the best clone for me? Do you think it has mind reading powers to know that today I'm going to go pvp and want a clone that just covers my SP and thus has a minimum isk cost, and that tomorrow when I buy another clone I would have decided that I'm done with pvp and want a clone that will cover me for the next few months of skill training?
Before you start spewing out such bullshit please go study the topic at least a little bit.
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Ilkahn
DisturbedGamers.
102
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Posted - 2013.07.30 13:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hespire Malneant wrote:The Upgrade Clone button summons a dialog with the Omega grade clone at the top of the list, but probably there is not a single character in the game who needs one of those.
Instead, the player who wants to buy only the minimum clone that he needs has must scroll all the way to the bottom of the list.
Since you are removing the invalid choices from the list anyway, why not sort it in the opposite order, so that the one the user needs is always visible without scrolling? Also, this would place the appropriate choice in the position that should intuitively be the default.
Also, the current design leads inexperienced users to make costly mistakes. Suppose a new player has just subbed with a buddy invite, and the guy who sent him the invite splits the PLEX reward with him. This noob actually has enough ISK to buy an Omega clone, and might actually spend 100M ISK on it without knowing what he is doing. I personally know a case where this happened (hint: the issuer of the buddy invite was me).
Welcome to eve. Now that introductions are out of the way, allow me to tell you how to handle this. I did this once also. My advice is not to e-rage, swallow the bitter medicine that is impatience and do your excercises to alleviate "clickstofast" disease. It's worked for me. At least till the next event of "clickstofast" disease i seem to contract from time to time. |
Paul Panala
Circulus Exousias
61
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 13:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
I agree, list should be sorted the other way. There are about 63 million things I would like to see improved more than that, but still valid. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1313
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 14:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
JonnyRandom wrote:Daniel Plain wrote: just because the ui tells you the state of the system does not mean it's a good ui. a good ui will anticipate trivial decisions and make them for you.
I don't know where you've been taught usability and UI design, but that is absolute horseshit right there. The worst thing you could possibly do is have the UI make decisions for the player. Especially in cases like this where the choice of the clone upgrade is NOT trivial at all. How exactly do you suppose the program should decide what is the best clone for me? Do you think it has mind reading powers to know that today I'm going to go pvp and want a clone that just covers my SP and thus has a minimum isk cost, and that tomorrow when I buy another clone I would have decided that I'm done with pvp and want a clone that will cover me for the next few months of skill training? does your browser support auto-completion of urls? does it have a 'most visited' tab? do your language combo boxes contain your native language by default or do they always start out with Albanian?
as for trivial or not: if you have to upgrade your clone, chances are you died recently. which in turn implies that you were participating in pvp. which again implies that you are probably a pvp player. regardless of whether you are or are not a pvp player, having the cheapest suitable clone pre-selected does not hurt you in any way, it will save you between 0 and 1 click and will not cost you any clicks in any case.
Quote:Before you start spewing out such bullshit please go study the topic at least a little bit. i would send you my diploma but i don't feel like proving my credentials to random cretins on the interwebs.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Gaellia Bonaventure
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1410
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 14:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
People really will complain about GD anything in this game. Bring your possibles. |
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Hespire Malneant
EVE University Ivy League
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 15:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
JonnyRandom wrote:Daniel Plain wrote: just because the ui tells you the state of the system does not mean it's a good ui. a good ui will anticipate trivial decisions and make them for you.
I don't know where you've been taught usability and UI design, but that is absolute horseshit right there. The worst thing you could possibly do is have the UI make decisions for the player. Especially in cases like this where the choice of the clone upgrade is NOT trivial at all. How exactly do you suppose the program should decide what is the best clone for me? Do you think it has mind reading powers to know that today I'm going to go pvp and want a clone that just covers my SP and thus has a minimum isk cost, and that tomorrow when I buy another clone I would have decided that I'm done with pvp and want a clone that will cover me for the next few months of skill training? Before you start spewing out such bullshit please go study the topic at least a little bit.
You didn't pay attention to my point at all, did you?
Clearly you do not get paid to write software that other people pay to use. Also you are an ignorant blowhard whose opinion I shall henceforth always ignore, secure in the knowledge that when you open your mouth or set fingers to keyboard, nonsense and garbage is sure to follow.
I would explain to you how utterly full of fail this response is (like 5 pounds of fail in a 3-pound bag), were I not certain the effort would be wasted.
If you were one of the other jackasses who brayed in a similar fashion to this respondent, let this post stand as my reaction to your stupidity as well. I won't be looking at this thread again.
As somebody else pointed out, I posted this in the wrong place. I'll put it in the features & suggestions forum. |
Caius Delorey
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 15:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
A lot of the UI could be more 'user-friendly' or have improvements done to them. I just bought what's in the middle range, so luckily it wasn't that bad on my end but I can see how some could buy from the top without much thought..or even knowing what it is. Mind you, I'm like 4 days old here so it should be expected for me to a bit dumb here. |
Cameron Zero
Red Federation
196
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 16:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hyperbole aside, this really is one of those very minor "quality of life" fixes that would probably take all of a few minutes to fix (most of that searching for where in the code it's located).
I have yet to see a valid reason NOT to have the list sorted the other way.
Are there more important things to fix? Sure. Does that invalidate that this is still an issue (however minor)? Nope.
C'mon, y'all, instead of sperging all over a good idea (especially for new players who don't have the experience or patience that many of you seem to espouse), why don't y'all go undock and blow something up? "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |
Jayor Robb
Estel Arador Corp Services
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 19:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
2.5 weeks in as an EvE noob and it seems pretty clear to me that you should be reading the information on decisions you are making, not mashing buttons and blaming UI.
The very 1st time I opened the clone window I understood what I was looking at and didnt think a thing of it.
Is this honestly a problem people are having? |
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