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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
371
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Posted - 2013.07.30 18:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kitty Baugh wrote:That's right, I said it. I'll keep it pretty short:
Time dilation is gamebreaking for the smaller side, simply because it gives the bigger side 10x the time to ping and get people online.
Example: -Fleet of 250 bumps titan out of POS -Begins killing Titan, gets it to half armour before 100 of the enemy undock and warp to them -System gets tidi'd to **** -Before the fleet of 250 can finish killing the titan (Enemy fleet has no serious RR), Tidi goes to insane amounts -Before the enemy titan or enemy fleet can even be further dented because of how slow it is, enemy sends a ping out and gets hundreds more people online -More Tidi allows more people to get online -The people who are much smaller, but would've gotten a monumental victory then lose because Tidi gave their opponents much more time to get online, get organized and get into the fight
Inb4hisecpropvpersjumponthisthread
So you missed the titan that died because we were tidi d to hell and you guys were running real time a single bridge away?
Quit crying.
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
371
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Posted - 2013.07.30 18:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
tiberiusric wrote:Tippia wrote:tiberiusric wrote:Are you mad?, what do you think TIDI is? its just lag with an official name. It doesnt help one bit So you don't think that keeping the game running and working in a predictable and consistent matter counts as GÇ£helpingGÇ¥ compared to the alternative of the game shutting down and/or no longer being predictable? No. TiDi is not lag with an official name. It's controlled and graceful degradation of the world simulation, specifically to avoid the inconsistencies, unresponsiveness, and unpredictability of actual lag. Quote:Youre bad for saying technology aint here yet lol. Try optimising code, trying optimising databases, try adding more hardware, try harder They did that. TiDi was first the solution to come out of it. Tippia listen, open those ears and listen. How do you think that waiting 20/30 mins for 'something to happen' is any better than how it was before? Its exactly the same as it was before!! It's controlled and graceful degradation of the world simulation? Its still bloody lag you total idiot. and yes it is lag with an official name, thats my opinion if you dont like that opinion you can shove it where the sun dont shine sunny.
Nice sperg, you are either being willingly blind or you never saw a 900 man battle before tidi.
It isn't close to the same thing. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
371
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Posted - 2013.07.30 19:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
tiberiusric wrote:No your right, i havent been involved in it at all..... Your right, tidi as made it so much better....
Does grid load? Yes Do bombs work? Yes, I remember bombs just staying in place at around 700 local Drones respond? Yes Module's work? Yes
CLUSTER CRASH, No.
Yup, sounds a lot better than the bad old days. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
371
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Posted - 2013.07.30 19:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kitty Baugh wrote:Sarah McKnobbo wrote:Kitty Baugh wrote: Time dilation is gamebreaking for the smaller side, simply because it gives the bigger side 10x the time to ping and get people online.
Umm CFC lost a titan the other day and TiDi worked against them, slowing their logging, forming and reacting so, no, not really. And the failed titan gank was more to do with the fact it was in a staging system, allowing quick response time for the rescuers. Stop talking about last nights failed titan gank please my original post was an example of how Tidi works against smaller forces
That wasn't last night, it was Sunday's shananigans after 6VDT, and the titan was successfully ganked that time.
A titan was bumped and tackled and we couldn't get a savior fleet into system because 6VDT was running real time and 1400 raging Clusterfuckians rage logging brought our staging sysetm to 10% TiDi.
We couldn't get there fast enough. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
371
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Posted - 2013.07.30 19:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
So if there was really any question.
The TiDi givith http://themittani.com/news/4-ep-titan-gank-goes-awry-capital-battle-results
....and the TiDi taketh away http://themittani.com/news/alod-third-time-charm
It doesn't only work for the larger party. Trust me. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
371
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 20:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Secondly, I have never heard anyone who played the game before TiDi existed, complain about it. So if you think the game would be better without it, sorry, but you're a noob. "oh, but get better equipment"... it doesn't exist.
Correct, the EvE cluster is a distributed super computer, similar to Sandia's Red Storm (the first of its type if I remember right).
There is NOTHING better on the market, they are the servers that run Google's cloud databases, Amazon's market place, and the rigs that do Wall Streets automated training. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
371
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Posted - 2013.07.30 20:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kitty Baugh wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Firstly, TiDi doesn't give any advantage to the larger side. If anything, it gives a huge advantage to the smaller side during a significant fleet action, allowing them time to scramble reinforcements before incurring the same losses they would during normal time against a larger fleet. Duh.
Secondly, I have never heard anyone who played the game before TiDi existed, complain about it. So if you think the game would be better without it, sorry, but you're a noob. "oh, but get better equipment"... it doesn't exist. Google itself could not handle real time client(there's the key term btw, real time) server interactions at this level. If you think it can be done (with your undoubtedly expert network knowledge) then prove CCP wrong and do it yourself. Otherwise, just shut up.
It's the preferable alternative to the game crashing, or warping in and ending up dead. If you think gatecamps are bad now? Try jumping into a system, closing your eyes for 90 seconds, and only then can you start to move your ship. Scramble reinforcements to the smaller side? You mean the smaller side who have everybody at a computer online, in fleet and shooting the titain?
Perhaps.
Fact is that when you are fighting in 10% that reinforcements are running ten times faster than you are which can be a blessing or a curse, its situational. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
380
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Posted - 2013.07.30 20:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:
You do realize that lag is a full cycle from client to server to client again right?
TiDi intentionally disrupts that by creating lag to prevent a disconnect.
People aren't realizing that TiDi prevents disconnects. We aren't talking about disconnects, we are talking about lag.
Not a disruption, its a chance of rate, no more no less. The effect is that the node has 10 times as long to process calls and queries.
Granted we can still lag it after all of that, but its MUCH more reliable than pre-TiDi times. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
380
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Posted - 2013.07.30 20:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sirane Elrek wrote:. Unlike lag, in which it doesn't and defers processing to a far later point in time.
You hoped anyway.
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
380
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Posted - 2013.07.30 20:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Onictus wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:
You do realize that lag is a full cycle from client to server to client again right?
TiDi intentionally disrupts that by creating lag to prevent a disconnect.
People aren't realizing that TiDi prevents disconnects. We aren't talking about disconnects, we are talking about lag.
Not a disruption, its a chance of rate, no more no less. The effect is that the node has 10 times as long to process calls and queries. Granted we can still lag it after all of that, but its MUCH more reliable than pre-TiDi times. But the point is the fanbois are insisting it's not lag, when it is. It's created intentionally to prevent disconnects. The effect is lag. It's not a hot poker. It's just ugly.
You are a seriously dense monkey dude. For real.
First, the cycle from client server communication is called latency Second lag is a result of a processor que times. If the queue processing exceeds the the client update rate, you have lag. Third , I'm a hardware engineer by trade, what CCP has done with server loads is on par with amazon's scalable cloud architecture.
That being said I don't think anyone has a REAL TIME (Amazon's services aren't real time) dynamic load sharing architecutre working, and if they do they aren't marketing it for anything, its in a datacenter for a multi-billion dollar a year bank and they don't want ANYONE else seeing it.
Suffice it to say its extraordinarily difficult to break threads and reassign them to different logical procs in a real time environment, my company has been working at it to varying degrees for the better part of ten years. |
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
380
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Posted - 2013.07.30 21:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
far later point in time? err thats what TiDi does lol. You activate a mod, 30 mins later it actions...duh
Quite spamming the button like a methed out hamster and it usually goes in a relatively predictable fashion.
Fighting with 4000 in a system (or even 1500 unreinforced) yeah, you are getting TiDi and lag.......it not prefect but its better than the alternatives.
....and I've NEVER seen a 30 minute mod activation, like 10-15 seconds maybe, certainly nothing over a minute. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
380
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Posted - 2013.07.30 21:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:
Latency is the time, lag is the result.
The two have nothing to do with each other. One is a consequence of network communication, and the other is releated to processing resources.
Try to focus. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
383
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:
What would be your opinion on tidi having an impact on the decision to engage in those large fights that the outcome is less insured than normal?
Take the risk of engaging or don't take it. TiDi or not, the choice is there. It's a variable that has to be taken into account pretty much anytime caps are fielded not it seems because escalation can come out of nowhere really fast. If you don't risk it and stand down, you will enver get ****** over by TiDi. If you engage, you might get beaten by a group than handle the new variable better than you do. What I mean is... Asakai would most likely happen every week if Tidi wasn't so prevalent. I mean, we've been having escalations and caps and supers and such every day. If tidi was not such a scary beast I'm sure we'd have much larger fights more often to push that envelope.
Asakai wouldn't have happened at all. It would have been over before the test of new Eden could have gotten there.
Or there node would have crashed..
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
383
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Onictus wrote:
Asakai wouldn't have happened at all. It would have been over before the test of new Eden could have gotten there.
Or there node would have crashed..
Think of it this way... you have X amount of capitals, supers, titans, etc and you know you do not want to structure grind, you know you also do not want to commit that behemoth because it would take 20 minutes to get the ship to even do anything, let alone get a result. So, take the tidi meta out of the picture, take sov grinding out of the picture (since you don't want to structure grind anyways...) what else would you want to use the ship for? Ratting? Oh joy there. Now, pretend for a moment tidi was not an element... would you want to escalate into a super fight?
What are you blabbering about.
TiDi enable Asakia to happen. Remember that was supposed to be a hot drop, on an unreinforced node. It would have come down to the who got in first. Likely the CFC savior fleet would have crashed the node, or Boat would have been dead before they could have gotten there.
You DAMN sure wouldn't have had people making it from scalding pass on the complete opposite end of the map making it there in time. That is for certain. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
383
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Posted - 2013.08.01 11:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Medarr wrote:Tippia wrote:Medarr wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Apocryphal Noise wrote:Put it this way, until they rewrite every line of code in something other than python, there's going to be lag. It doesn't matter what language it's written in. You could write the whole thing in assembly, it'll still lag. Uhm... No. Due to python they can only run one system on a CPU if you can run one system on _All_ CPUs it would have plenty of power. GǪand you'll still have lag. elaborate please. As i understand it eve peers with 3 tier 3 providers giving them ampel bandwidth to the cluster, their internal network uses infiniband ect. Is there a bottleneck somewhere that im missing or are you refering to the clients lagging due to massive amounts of asset rendering?
HS22 blades cap out around 650Ghz/s they advertise 1000gigE but the interface is a PCI daughter board and there its only so much the Northridge can take.
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
392
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Posted - 2013.08.03 16:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Tidi works against the larger side too.
- Their titan gets tackled - Pings go out - They all start undocking from the same station causing 10% tidi in their system but not [causing 10% TiDi] in the system where the titan is being killed - Titan is killed before anyone is able to load grid after undocking, much less join fleet and travel to where it is and save it. It's hard to imagine enough force to down a titan that quickly that doesn't cause some TiDi. It's also hard to imagine that the defenders of the titan would all log into the same system simultaneously and just sit around waiting while TiDi was rising and their titan was dying. I'd think they would start getting carrier groups into the non-TiDi engagement system to begin landing reps on their titan and to start pushing the TiDi meter in the engagement system towards that 10% mark. Even in the scenario where there is no TiDi in the engagement system and massive TiDi in the defender's staging system, all that has to be done is to fleet the appropriate people in the staging system and get cyno's lit in the engagement system. If your titan dies before you can even do that, then odds are that TiDi wasn't the cause of your loss so much as the efficiency of the opposing force. The titan is SUPPOSED to die in that scenario. The term is "hit-and-run". It's not "hit-and-stand-your-ground-while-the-opposition-musters-an-appropriately-sized-response-force", but that is effectively what TiDi makes a strike force do, stand their ground and face the response. Is TiDi good? Is it necessary? Is it lag? I don't know, probably yes to all three. But when it comes to the question of "Is it fair?", the answer is pretty clear.
Funny we lost a Titan to exactly that.
100 ships hitting a system will kick TiDi to 80% but only for a minute until the server catches up with building all of the characters and ships. That will melt a titan fast enough that mustering a savior fleet is going to be a near thing, Particularly when half of those ships are dreads. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
392
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Posted - 2013.08.03 20:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Isn't that why stealth bombers are doing so well in large fights as it is?
AoE prevails when you take "delay" into consideration.
No they made it so that bombers don't decloak each other which makes them MUCH easier to fly. |
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